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View Poll Results: Who is the worse captain?
Kazi Habibul Bashar Shumon 10 58.82%
Mohammad Mushfiqur Rahim Mit'hu 7 41.18%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old November 30, 2012, 01:31 AM
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Default Who's Worse?

Please vote.
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  #2  
Old November 30, 2012, 01:32 AM
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adonde esta el poll?
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  #3  
Old November 30, 2012, 01:33 AM
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Esta aqui ahora.
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  #4  
Old November 30, 2012, 01:42 AM
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LOL reading the thread title I expected Shamim/Kanta competition.
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  #5  
Old November 30, 2012, 01:44 AM
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Neither. They did what they could within their abilities.
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  #6  
Old November 30, 2012, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Neither. They did what they could within their abilities.
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  #7  
Old November 30, 2012, 08:23 AM
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Although Mushy is limited in his captaincy, HaBa was a class by himself. The world might never see a worse captain. I still cannot forget the 2007 WC match against WI that was lost by sheer stupidity on the part of the captain.
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  #8  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:10 AM
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Mushy is still young and will learn with time. HaBa was captain at the later part of his career.
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  #9  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:15 AM
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^Sorry, but I'm not OK with "Mushy is still young and will learn with time" because that'll happen at the too high an expense. The National Team represents our country and isn't anyone's Mama Bar'hi
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  #10  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Shakib is the rightful captain of this team and I'm sure we'll see him lead again in the near future.
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  #11  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Shakib is the rightful captain of this team and I'm sure we'll see him lead again in the near future.
+1000 to that!
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  #12  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
Mushy is still young and will learn with time. HaBa was captain at the later part of his career.
Exactly. Although we expected Mushy to learn quicker, but I think its still too early to lose faith in him. Whereas Bashar always gave the impression of a lazy govt employee who just waits for it to be 5pm (or 3pm) to go home.

But I must say Mushy's captaincy took a hit on his batting performance, whereas Haba was 'Gollay jak tactics, I need to pull these deliveries and get to my 50 and go home'
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  #13  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:28 AM
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off-topic question Sohel bhai, who do you think should lead the team right now if not Mushy?
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  #14  
Old November 30, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ialbd
off-topic question Sohel bhai, who do you think should lead the team right now if not Mushy?
Upon Shakib's return, Shakib. Without Shakib, Tamim. We're not a very strong team and simply cannot afford to step off the gas because of some sort of script, give momentum right back to our opponent, and concede 40-50 runs in the process. We need to be aggressive when the bowling is going in our favor.
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  #15  
Old November 30, 2012, 02:04 PM
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Shakib failed to hold the team together and thoroughly deserved to lose captaincy after the WC. Don't see any reason to go back to him as the captain. Tamim certainly doesn't have the levelheadedness that required of a captain either.

As of now, Mushfiq is doing fine.
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  #16  
Old November 30, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Shakib failed to hold the team together and thoroughly deserved to lose captaincy after the WC. Don't see any reason to go back to him as the captain. Tamim certainly doesn't have the levelheadedness that required of a captain either.

As of now, Mushfiq is doing fine.
Thank you. Contrary to perception, Shakib was no revolutionary captain. He may have been sharper on the field (although actual evidence suggests otherwise - see below), his behind the scenes management of the team was disastrous. If he can sort that out then for sure he'll be captain again but as of now the team is in no such crisis that a change of leader is required. On top of that, Shakib's batting stats have soared since he lost the captaincy.

Top 20 scores against Bangladesh:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...ype=opposition

5 out of 20 during Shakib's tenure; Mushy is yet to get on the list despite his "brain-dead" captaincy. In fact Mushy is yet to concede a 300+ score to the opposition.
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  #17  
Old November 30, 2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Shakib failed to hold the team together and thoroughly deserved to lose captaincy after the WC. Don't see any reason to go back to him as the captain. Tamim certainly doesn't have the levelheadedness that required of a captain either.

As of now, Mushfiq is doing fine.
First of all, we have to agree to disagree on "Mushfiq is doing fine as of now" based on his on field captaincy decisions from field placement bowler rotation according to match situations. We do not have the luxury of such blatant and costly errors being the team we are. Just following a script regardless of the match situation is moronic, unacceptable and damaging. It could be argued that the burden of captaincy, even of the brain dead variety, has adversely affected his batting. So he isn't really leading from the front either. So HOW is he "doing fine as of now"?

Secondly, Tamim has played over 100 ODIs and as a top order batsman, and knows what to do when it comes to reading another batsman's comfort level and apply pressure accordingly. Being naturally aggressive, I don't see him holding back or taking his foot off the gas when we have the upper hand.

That being said, Mushfiq is a very good captain off the field, certainly better than Shakib from I've heard from several players who have played for both. He is more personable, more approachable and far less intimidating than Shakib, and is therefore more liked. Sadly, that has not and will not mitigate his on field ineptitude and prevent the damage it will continue to do to the little chance we have to begin with. That, at the end of the day, will not motivate our players to do better. Not being cuddled by a cuddly guy ultimately perceived as weak within our cultural context is the way to go "as of now".
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  #18  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
Thank you. Contrary to perception, Shakib was no revolutionary captain. He may have been sharper on the field (although actual evidence suggests otherwise - see below), his behind the scenes management of the team was disastrous. If he can sort that out then for sure he'll be captain again but as of now the team is in no such crisis that a change of leader is required. On top of that, Shakib's batting stats have soared since he lost the captaincy.

Top 20 scores against Bangladesh:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...ype=opposition

5 out of 20 during Shakib's tenure; Mushy is yet to get on the list despite his "brain-dead" captaincy. In fact Mushy is yet to concede a 300+ score to the opposition.
Spot on, as much as I dislike some of Mushy's decisions you gotta give credit where it's due. Show me a single Bangladeshi captain who was good with bowling and fielding changes. Unfortunately there isn't any, all of them including Shak have made some very big blunders. I know Shak does come with some brilliant decisions at times but overall his captaincy has been very poor. He hardly encourages any player and tries to do everything on his own. On the other hand, we all know that Mushy is a great leader off the field and more importantly he is good friends with all the players which is really necessary to motivate everyone to play as a team. That being said, his on-field captaincy surely leaves a lot to be desired but I'm quite hopeful that with time he'll only get better. Here's something encouraging about Mushy's captaincy, this is what Isam bhai had to say on his fielding adjustments:

Quote:
Clever adjustment of the day
A captain's job can be subtle as well as obvious. When Gazi was brought into the attack for a second spell after West Indies had lost seven wickets he beat Devon Thomas first ball then, as he was walking back to his mark, Mushfiqur Rahim signalled to Abdur Razzak at long-on to move a little to his right. The next ball Razzak took two steps forward to take a simple catch; the captain's sleight of hand working a treat.
© ESPNcricinfo
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  #19  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
We do not have the luxury of such blatant and costly errors being the team we are. Just following a script regardless of the match situation is moronic, unacceptable and damaging.

Secondly, Tamim has played over 100 ODIs and as a top order batsman, knows what to do when it comes to reading another batsman's comfort level and apply pressure accordingly. Being naturally aggressive, I don't see him holding back or taking his foot off the gas when we have the upper hand.
Mushy has been somewhat innovative and doesn't always follows the script. He decided to open with Gazi in the 1st test. That was very much out of the script and after initial boundaries, he kept on with Gazi and ultimately got Gayle's wicket. In ODIs now, he lets Mash bowl 7 overs straight and then brings him again in the middle overs. Traditionally, pacers don't bowl more than 5-6 overs in the opening spell. In T20s, he constantly changes bowlers and doesn't let any 2 over spells. In Tests, he promoted Nasir above Riyad and yesterday too Nasir came in at 4 (while before he used to come at 6-8) because situation demanded it. Nasir is in good form and has a cool head.

Now we can argue that these changes has mixed results. But I don't think he is very boxed and follows scripts word by word. Lately he is making some big calls. I will still prefer him over Tamim.
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Old November 30, 2012, 03:34 PM
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^Here's what I saw today. He followed the script until it took the momentum away from us and created an unnecessary crisis. Then he made some good adjustments to manage a crisis of his own making. Sorry, but that's not good leadership in my book.
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  #21  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
First of all, we have to agree to disagree on "Mushfiq is doing fine as of now" based on his on field captaincy decisions from field placement bowler rotation according to match situations. We do not have the luxury of such blatant and costly errors being the team we are. Just following a script regardless of the match situation is moronic, unacceptable and damaging. It could be argued that the burden of captaincy, even of the brain dead variety, has adversely affected his batting. So he isn't really leading from the front either. So HOW is he "doing fine as of now"?

Secondly, Tamim has played over 100 ODIs and as a top order batsman, and knows what to do when it comes to reading another batsman's comfort level and apply pressure accordingly. Being naturally aggressive, I don't see him holding back or taking his foot off the gas when we have the upper hand.

That being said, Mushfiq is a very good captain off the field, certainly better than Shakib from I've heard from several players who have played for both. He is more personable, more approachable and far less intimidating than Shakib, and is therefore more liked. Sadly, that has not and will not mitigate his on field ineptitude and prevent the damage it will continue to do to the little chance we have to begin with. That, at the end of the day, will not motivate our players to do better. Not being cuddled by a cuddly guy ultimately perceived as weak within our cultural context is the way to go "as of now".
With so many young players around, Mushfiq's ability to keep them calm, confident, and together as a team is much more important than any strategic blunder he may make.

Shak is a great cricketer, but he was certainly not motivating others to play better. His off field shenanigans was also effecting the team spirit badly.

Tamim is an even worse choice for his on and off field behaviors.

May be in future we can think of someone with a better strategic and aggressive mindset (Nasir?). But for now we need a team builder, and I think Mushfiq is doing the job fine.
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  #22  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel

That being said, Mushfiq is a very good captain off the field, certainly better than Shakib from I've heard from several players who have played for both. He is more personable, more approachable and far less intimidating than Shakib, and is therefore more liked. Sadly, that has not and will not mitigate his on field ineptitude and prevent the damage it will continue to do to the little chance we have to begin with. That, at the end of the day, will not motivate our players to do better. Not being cuddled by a cuddly guy ultimately perceived as weak within our cultural context is the way to go "as of now".
I know for a fact that Shakib is more liked within the team. Razzak, Mashrafe, Nasir and Tamim are thick with Shakib. Tamim is his BFF. If you have read Law and Pybus's parting assessment of Mushy as a captain then you will know what kind of a guy he is behind the scenes and whether he is perceived as weak or not and not rely on mere hearsay.



Watch from 3:00
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  #23  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
^Here's what I saw today. He followed the script until it took the momentum away from us and created an unnecessary crisis. Then he made some good adjustments to manage a crisis of his own making. Sorry, but that's not good leadership in my book.
Give him some time and I'm sure he won't create such unnecessary crisis. Also you just can't keep changing captains especially when your team is on an upward curve with everyone jelling well together. And about Shakib getting back the captaincy, how much load do you want to give to this man? He is already having a toll on his body for carrying the burden of the whole team in both bowling and batting and you want to give him more responsibilities? The stats also show that since getting rid of the added captaincy pressure his batting has really come of age and we surely can't afford to lose that!
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  #24  
Old November 30, 2012, 03:55 PM
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May be my memory is short but I don't remember Shakib's on field blunders being as huge as what I see from Mushfique but without a doubt his off field captaincy was not so great. Shakib's batting might have soared after he was striped from captaincy but his bowling deteriorated severely after that. The reason mushy hasn't conceded 300+ runs and such and such stats because he simply has a better team to play with, something Shakib lacked at that time. The top order was almost non existent except Tamim. Shakib in some point in time should be the captain but for now I want mushy to rectify the mistakes. We can't afford to make such mistakes and expect to get away with it. Mushfique also needs to be more responsible as a batsman. He was really lucky to drive us home yesterday after a miscued pull that could have easily got caught.
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  #25  
Old November 30, 2012, 04:00 PM
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Thanks Equinox, for the video. On the field, Shakib is our hardest working cricketer. But he is still not a good role model to look at when it comes to motive other players to work harder with coaching staff, to develop their own skills.

It's best for the team to leave Shakib and Tamim to deliver what the can as individual players, and let Mushfiq handle rest of the boys.
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