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View Poll Results: Should Mushfiqur be stripped of captaincy?
Yes 58 41.43%
No 69 49.29%
Don't know 13 9.29%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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  #601  
Old April 5, 2014, 11:48 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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in terms of captaincy material shakib and mushy are pretty much equal in every department except one and that is in tactical ability. shakib is just naturally a much better think when it comes to on field captaincy, i'll bet he's much more adaptable as well i.e. is a game plan was worked out before hand but isn't working he's more likely to try something different moreso than mushy and it's also more likely to work than if mushy actually did decide to change the plan.

do we want to win or not? if yes then who has the better captaincy skills to achieve this goal? obvious choice imo.
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  #602  
Old April 7, 2014, 08:14 AM
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shuziburo shuziburo is offline
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Mushfiqur experiment has failed in every way possible. I am not sure what Shakib will do as a captain, but the time has come to make the change. Shakib might be the best available option.

But, BCB might have different thoughts on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
in terms of captaincy material shakib and mushy are pretty much equal in every department except one and that is in tactical ability. shakib is just naturally a much better think when it comes to on field captaincy, i'll bet he's much more adaptable as well i.e. is a game plan was worked out before hand but isn't working he's more likely to try something different moreso than mushy and it's also more likely to work than if mushy actually did decide to change the plan.

do we want to win or not? if yes then who has the better captaincy skills to achieve this goal? obvious choice imo.
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  #603  
Old April 7, 2014, 08:51 AM
Equinox Equinox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
Mushfiqur experiment has failed in every way possible. I am not sure what Shakib will do as a captain, but the time has come to make the change. Shakib might be the best available option.

But, BCB might have different thoughts on this.
Hmm let's see - Asia Cup finalists, series win v WI, Test series draw v NZ, whitewash of NZ, genuine draws against SL. Despite his recent failures he has still achieved way more than any BD captain before him.
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  #604  
Old April 7, 2014, 09:35 AM
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I think Mushy is not getting proper supervision. He kept on making the same blunders over and over again but seems like no one sat down with him and had few words on strategies. Rather than sacking him, we should point our fingers at Shane.

He is way too putuputu and has failed to make any enhancements. Players dont respect him and he doesn't have what it takes to handle players like Shakib who openly said how he feels about training. He was having a joy ride thanx to Siddons and Law's hard work. But now his luck ran out..
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  #605  
Old April 7, 2014, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Rather than sacking him, we should point our fingers at Shane.
..
Or both... that is sack both. it doesn;t need to be either this or that.

Rahim was captain under three coaches so far and he failed to show any improvment (of his captaincy) over time, and some of the mistakes that he is making, he himself should be able to rectify and improve, its not rocket science... he is playing enough years in national team and shaoul have enough experience to show his leadership in the field without constant help from the coach.

Yes coach is at fault. But by this time it should be clear that Rahim's problem ( as a captian) is beyond fixable by any coach. The coach should provide help, but he cannoit constantly breast feed a captain like a baby, its not going to work under any coach good or bad.


What's the point of keeping an experienced by totally incapable cpatin who coonot make right decision with getting constant feedback from a coach? Then what's the point keeping a captain? Just pick any body with the assumption that coach will give constant instruction on the field.

The reality is in cricket, cpatin plays a biiger role than any team sports. And without a capable captain, no coach can make any significant difference. The coach will instruct one thing an the captain will ignore an do his own things.

So I beleive bot need to go f0or a fresh start. Pick a player with potential even he is new. There will be risk, but atleast there will be hope.
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  #606  
Old April 7, 2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
Hmm let's see - Asia Cup finalists, series win v WI, Test series draw v NZ, whitewash of NZ, genuine draws against SL. Despite his recent failures he has still achieved way more than any BD captain before him.
you can say the other way..every series you mentioned is after the 2 BPLs, this year is the only time mushy didn't have a team filled with BPL confidence

Bangladesh did well in those series because either Batting or Bowling was doing well, a captain come in when you need good tactical decisions, mushy failed everytime. his batsmans or bowlers bailed him out

recent example from one of those successful series that comes to my mind is the 3rd ODI vs NZ, it was because of mushy's faulty captaincy NZ scored 300+..but as the batsmen were in such a good form we won that game..it wont happen everyday, specially for a team like us..when the confidence is low it showed how captaincy matters..for example see the pak match in asia cup
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  #607  
Old April 7, 2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal

So I beleive bot need to go f0or a fresh start. Pick a player with potential even he is new. There will be risk, but atleast there will be hope.
Can you please tell me the name of that player in your mind?
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  #608  
Old April 7, 2014, 11:25 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Can you please tell me the name of that player in your mind?
I am just a fan, the consumer of the product. BCB produce the product and should know better.

Its not my job to find a replacement for the captain. It's BCB management's job. Because they should know in-and-out of their players and their potentials. Its hard for a fan (specially who just watches national team plays in TV and nothing else) to say who has the potential to be the next captain. Most of us doesn't have the opportunity to watch young players playing local games and non-national games, Also we don't have the access to see them closerin the locker room or during practice. So most of us, the fans, doesn't have that kind of information to say whether young player "A" or "B" has the qualities to be a leader in the team or not.

But i can say you one thing, it's not new, innovative or rocket science ... other teams have done it before with mixed results ...but mainly positive result than negative... i.e. their boards trusting on new and young players in leadership role. Examples? Here are few: 1. South Africa tried it with Smith, Pakistan tried it with Shoeb Malik, ZIm tried it with Taibu , Sri lanka with Mathew and others, even India tried it with Dhoni.

Two things to keep in mind:

1. Its BCB's job (not fan's job) to keep track of their player's potential and develop them and create options in every positions.

2. There is nothing called "changes without any risk". There will be always risks when you make a change.

If you don't have clear altenative expereinced player to replace the captain, its not ok in my book to do nothing with that excuse. if that is the case, I expect BBC to take bold and risker step like selecting young and non-experienced player with leadership quality.

So for a fan what we know and what we don't know by watching the national team?

1. Rahim doesn't have what he needs to have to be a successful captain of the national team. So can be said about Tamim.
2. Sakib has it what it required to be a good captain in the field. But he has other question marks mainly off the field.
3. nasir most likely have it. But he has form issue and recently shown some bad trend/habbit.
4. We don't know if young players in the team have it or not, as they were not exposed (leadership quality or deficiency) to us yet. But I expect that BCB management should have a better tap on that.
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Last edited by Fazal; April 7, 2014 at 12:03 PM..
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  #609  
Old April 8, 2014, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Can you please tell me the name of that player in your mind?
Fazal needs not to bother. Let me help:

Its Chockmock Sen, surely. If not then BD U15 kaptan Mehedy Hasan.

One must take risk or think out of the box
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  #610  
Old April 8, 2014, 09:47 AM
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Fazal bhai, wonderful post. I actually wanted to know if you have considered any player who is worthy enough to show us the way, but your reply actually made me think in a different way. .

Actually you cant always make plans about a certain player and stick to that and be successful. We tried to groom SN and it didn't end too well. On the other hand, we have seen how rewarding the decision was to promote players like Dhoni Smith or even Malinga. Very prudent decision indeed.

But since you have mentioned that it is BCB's responsibility to come up with alternatives, I don't see much hope. How could you expect BCB to make shrewd decisions when you have guys like Akram Papon running the show when more than capable folks like Bulbul, Saber are being overlooked? It took out of the box thinking and vision to promote Smith or Dhoni. Wish we had someone who could do the same. Because the current folks are coming up with plans that are simply not working. .
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  #611  
Old April 8, 2014, 10:22 AM
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Can anyone remember who was the captain of duronto rajshahi in BPL 2?

They had more than one. Even the opponents didn't know who would be the captain next day.
Lets use that strategy. The captain will be rotated and can be anyone from the playing IX.
The off field and other disciplinary issues should be seen by the coach.

And yes we need to sack this coach and bring a better one.
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  #612  
Old May 19, 2014, 08:56 AM
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How many engineer do you need to change a bulb? Haturu da will be the 4th coach teaching our captain the basics of captaincy.
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  #613  
Old May 22, 2014, 04:12 PM
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I highly think reinstating sakeb as the captain will fix many problems. Mushfiq lost us the game many times from winning position esp. in SL series.
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  #614  
Old May 23, 2014, 04:15 PM
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Defensive captaincy has been a trait of the Bangladesh team, for some reason, it's like they can't help it. Growing up in a team culture of getting hammered 9 times out of 10 makes it hard for our captains to show innovation and grit. But deep inside, I think Mushfiq has it in him to be a great leader. He is calm, calculated and take responsibility (most of the time!). What he needs to do know is take some personal time to man up and become the great he is capable of being. Not many can boast the strength of this little man, in head or in heart. This childish culture of our cricket (and people in general) will hold him back. He needs to man up, buck up his thoughts and realize that he is 1 in 63636363.6364 of the worlds population. Get your act together young buck, for my sake and your countries
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  #615  
Old May 23, 2014, 10:13 PM
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I have been following the tigers since the Atahar ali khan era. I survived the dark days of 2003. I have to admit that Mushy the captain (he is a great player) really pushed me to the brink of quitting cricket as a whole. The Sri lanka series, asia cup and the WC was a hard pill to swallow. I am dreading the India series already.
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  #616  
Old May 23, 2014, 10:27 PM
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^ I think one of the reason why asia cup, SL series and the WC was so hard for us to follow was because of how well we played upto that point. And we arent talking just 1 series. We were consistently performing, which to us indicated bigger and better things to come. And than it just went all down hill.

If we played terribly up until that point we would have zero expectations going into those tournaments and the down fall wouldn't have seemed so bad. But than again losing to HK and Afghanistan looks bad no matter how we look at it.
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  #617  
Old May 24, 2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajfar
^ I think one of the reason why asia cup, SL series and the WC was so hard for us to follow was because of how well we played upto that point. And we arent talking just 1 series. We were consistently performing, which to us indicated bigger and better things to come. And than it just went all down hill.

If we played terribly up until that point we would have zero expectations going into those tournaments and the down fall wouldn't have seemed so bad. But than again losing to HK and Afghanistan looks bad no matter how we look at it.
For me it was harder to watch because i still believe we could have won the odi series against sri lanka and one t-20 and the asia cup game against pakistan if we had a better captain
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  #618  
Old May 24, 2014, 02:28 PM
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Our performance this year was just an indicator of how we're still a 9/10 team and not a G8 team. We still lack the mental toughness needed to be a top level team. Full credit to the boys beating WI in the ODI series and whitewashing NZ but a lot of the wins came from the lack of discipline from these 2 sides in the end and obviously once we won that 1 match, our boys started getting more confidence and hence we won these series.

SL is a more disciplined side than NZ and WI. So even though they lost their way in parts of the match, they still had enough discipline to beat us out. Obviously since we could not finish out SL in any of these matches, our confidence just went through the shredder.

Our team still rides too much on momentum and get too down on themselves on losses. So it's an indicator that we still lack the maturity, discipline and and self belief required to be a solid Test nation. Obviously we all hate to lose but it's a reality check for us fans that we still have a ways to go before we get respect from others and say we belong with the G8.
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  #619  
Old May 24, 2014, 09:42 PM
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Getting beaten by a better side is okay for me to live with. What kills my brain cells are things like farhad reza bowling the last over or letting teams off the hook when they are 8 down... Its because i know better sides do not give such opportunities often. What also makes it harder are all the excuses we get to hear after every game. There is no reflection on bad tactics and only justification. Game after game we field the same team and employ the same bowling and fielding changes while expecting different results.
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  #620  
Old May 25, 2014, 11:38 AM
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I agree that it's very frustrating to see these kind of decisions being made. It's also not only Mushy hate to say it. Tamim and Mash were in charge as well during the SL series and their captaincy wasn't really much better. Like I've said many times our players still lack the cricketing IQ needed. They have a plan before the game and once that doesn't work, they hit the panic button and fold.
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  #621  
Old May 25, 2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
I agree that it's very frustrating to see these kind of decisions being made. It's also not only Mushy hate to say it. Tamim and Mash were in charge as well during the SL series and their captaincy wasn't really much better. Like I've said many times our players still lack the cricketing IQ needed. They have a plan before the game and once that doesn't work, they hit the panic button and fold.
In BC we always see it coming don't we! We screamed and shouted about the persistent selection of SRK, or why Naeem was dropped from the ODI middle order having done so well in the absence of Shakib in the series before. We wondered how on earth Farhad Reza gets into the T-20 WC ahead of Zia or why Arafat Sunny gets dropped. There are far too many examples to list in recent times.
After almost 15 years, I am now seriously doubtful about whether we will ever change or remain a basket case of world cricket.
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  #622  
Old May 25, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
I agree that it's very frustrating to see these kind of decisions being made. It's also not only Mushy hate to say it. Tamim and Mash were in charge as well during the SL series and their captaincy wasn't really much better. Like I've said many times our players still lack the cricketing IQ needed. They have a plan before the game and once that doesn't work, they hit the panic button and fold.
Slowly i hope this ll change.

SJ wasnt in control of the team. Even if the Australian had the right ideas, not sure whether he had the influence for his ideas to be implemented. Seemed all Mushfiq.

With Hathurusingha and Streak we ll have two very intelligent individuals in the camp. Former known as a cricketing guru in SL, latter a former captain. I presume both these individuals will exert far greater influence than their predecessor.
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  #623  
Old May 25, 2014, 11:07 PM
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When it comes to field setting and bowler rotation, we don't have "a plan" with a specific opposition in mind. Our actual ability to compete against that opposition is also a non-factor. What we have instead is "the script", and the retarded desire to adhere to that script no matter what. Add the combination of cluelessness and predictable brain freezes into that mix and what you have is Mushfiq losing close games from a potentially winning position unless we get lucky. Call it predictably losing the plot because that script has nothing to do with what's happening in the middle, and the captain has proved to be an imbecile by doing the same things over and over again expecting different results because that's what the script is all about.

HaBa was an orthodox follower of the script but Mushfiq has taken this idiocy to the ultra-orthodox level with predictable results. Tamim or Mashrafe, intelligence isn't one of their known attributes, isn't any better but Shakib and Ashraful certainly were as captains. Both knew when to apply pressure by cutting off easy singles and surrounding a new batsman, and knew better than to bowl boundary bowlers at death. Bijoy as the captain of the U19 side also proved to have a brain.

Yes, bad captaincy will cost us matches *ESPECIALLY* because we're not very good. Even without the usual 3 to 4 dead weights in the team we're not very good. Reality check.
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Last edited by Sohel; May 25, 2014 at 11:39 PM..
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  #624  
Old May 26, 2014, 12:54 AM
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Mushfiq supposedly has a masters in history. But if he knew how we gained our independence he should know a David cannot play according to conventional rules.

I wonder whether these guys dont watch any cricket, highlights, etc. Anyone who would watch highlights of matches involving great captains could pick up a thing or two.
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  #625  
Old May 26, 2014, 01:12 AM
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After following and playing cricket for so many years, I can't think of a single boy or girl who could be worse than mushy in terms of captaincy. forget the prudency, the man lacks common sense sometimes on the field. I have no idea how can someone be like this after getting a masters degree from a university...
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