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  #1  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Default Time to drop a "must have pace attack" strategy?

I have been wondering and to me the idea keeps coming back. Specially when we are playing a non Asian team where the opponent is generally a bit weaker towards spin. What is the point of serving the visitors with fortune cookies in the form of "pace attack"?

lets face it, even at their best, how much damage can our pacers do to players like Gayle, Pollard, Samuels, Bravo and others? I would say at MOST, an upset.... thats all

Unless we play on a completely bouncy, green surface, i see no point of playing our pacers... Specially at home. Playing an extra spinner can save at least 20-30 runs and bring 1 wicket... this is usually the difference between Bangladesh winning a game or not.

I am speaking for the shorter formats ofcourse. Even though out longer format situation is worse, you can't expect to win a test match without a pace attack unless its a complete mine field.

How does this squad look like for ODIs?

Tamim
Jahirul
Mominul
Shakib
Mushfiq
Nasir
Riyad
Mash
Raj
Sunny
Enamul

Stanby: Zia, Gazi, Nazmul, Anamul

We have Mash... good or bad, form or of-form, he will be there.. I don't think there is any need to play any other pacers. If Mash gets injured, than bring in Nazmul ( I know its never gonna happen ). If by any chance, Zia gets a chance... there you go. You just earned yourself 3-4 overs of slow medium bowling... Good enough

With Raj, Sunny, Enamul, Shakib.... How much can the opponent score? Over 250? I dont see how

Think it this way,
Abul > Sunny?
Shafiul > Enamul?

Please dont say "you are comparing apples with oranges, IOS with Android bla bla bla"
Think who can save more runs, get more wickets.... the basic principle of bowling
thoughts guys...
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  #2  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Thank you for saying it. You know certainly know your cricket as skeptics would say. :p
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  #3  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:18 PM
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Disagree whatever conditions are a minimum of 2 pacers especially on slow surfaces.
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  #4  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:19 PM
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If we let Abul/Shafiul bowl, the opponent will make 350.
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  #5  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyRoom
Disagree whatever conditions are a minimum of 2 pacers especially on slow surfaces.
Please provide some reasoning behind your argument.... For all you know, I might be wrong
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  #6  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:32 PM
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Lol we probably have a better chance getting wickets with spinners on a bouncy pitch than pacers.
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  #7  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:35 PM
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We can't bow pace, so we shouldn't have a pace attack...we can't bat...so can we go without batsmen too...?? I thought there was another way for making the pacers effective. A all spin team will be slaughtered like Ind was slaughtered by Eng even on a spinning track... If you understand how to play a team game, you should understand how even a half decent pacer impacts the game and can make the spinners more effective...and helps to achieve a result as a team.... Ind had been doing these all spin for last century to get short term results and ruined the possibility of a decent pacer growing in that environment...every skill and talent needs it's environment and incentives to grow...lets not kill it and make decisions sitting with stats guru like our Indian stat freak brothers did/does...
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  #8  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
If we let Abul/Shafiul bowl, the opponent will make 350.
The sky is the limit
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  #9  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
We can't bow pace, so we shouldn't have a pace attack...we can't bat...so can we go without batsmen too...?? I thought there was another way for making the pacers effective. A all spin team will be slaughtered like Ind was slaughtered by Eng even on a spinning track... If you understand how to play a team game, you should understand how even a half decent pacer impacts the game and can make the spinners more effective...and helps to achieve a result as a team.... Ind had been doing these all spin for last century to get short term results and ruined the possibility of a decent pacer growing in that environment...every skill and talent needs it's environment and incentives to grow...lets not kill it and make decisions sitting with stats guru like our Indian stat freak brothers did/does...
Tell me how does playing these useless pacers gives environment and incentives to grow? What you need to make the national XI as a pacer? A pace over 130KPH, some luck, couple of good games in backyardigans cricket.... what else? The fact that these pacers are taken to play is the very reason why they are not progressing. What has Shafiul done to earn a recall other than a few domestic wickets? What has Abul done to warrant a place in the ODI squad? Did Rubel try to improve his line and length? Did Shahadat made any attempts to master some swing in his deliveries? They didnt and its evident when you watch them. 0 Improvement since day 1 they started.

They are in a secured box right now. Mashrafe, Shafiul, Rubel, SRK, Abul, Robiul you name it. They dont have to work hard to get back to the squad. They need to wait for others to get slaughtered and there you go... you are back in. Can you see this cycle? 1 fails, gets dropped, other one gets picked, gets dropped, and the cycle restarts.

Going with all spin attack will tell these bowlers that, they can't just rely on other seamers to get destroyed. If they want to play, they have to fight for that 1 slot or match their performance with the spinners. THIS will promote and create a competitive environment.

And please don't even bring Indians to compare. We will need another 10 years to have the pace attack they have right now. If they can be world champions by discriminating against pace attack, I would be happy to follow. If India can play a dominant spin attack with their bunch of spinners, why can't we? I find out spin attack better than theirs. Our spinners need to experience and match practice to get even better
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  #10  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:49 PM
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and @BANFAN,

When a batting attack doesn't work you change players. That is exactly what I suggested for our bowling attack. If Pace doesnt work, go with spin...
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  #11  
Old November 27, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Bhai..it's too late at night to give you a complete reply now... But just, that a pace bowler has a place in the national team, encourages those young upcoming bowlers to do better to get that slot...or else everyone will give it up and become spinner like Shohag... Instead, a little bit of guidance to these pacers can make them more effective... And add a variety .. That upsets batting rhythms and help spinners to succeed...monotonous spin will be torn apart by set batsman... How effective the pacers will be also depends on how they are used by the captain and how well your fielders support them by catching and stopping boundaries...

We blame pacers but, we have to admit, a lot of those are due to poor keeping, poor catching and poor fielding skills....
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  #12  
Old November 27, 2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Bhai..it's too late at night to give you a complete reply now... But just, that a pace bowler has a place in the national team, encourages those young upcoming bowlers to do better to get that slot...or else everyone will give it up and become spinner like Shohag... Instead, a little bit of guidance to these pacers can make them more effective... And add a variety .. That upsets batting rhythms and help spinners to succeed...monotonous spin will be torn apart by set batsman... How effective the pacers will be also depends on how they are used by the captain and how well your fielders support them by catching and stopping boundaries...

We blame pacers but, we have to admit, a lot of those are due to poor keeping, poor catching and poor fielding skills....
Yea but what did our pace attack managed to encourage so far? Abul....
For ODI, you need to save runs, and usually its enough to create chances. With the set of spinners (Shak-Enam-Sunny-Raj), the captain has all the freedom to offer short spells and not allow batsmen to settle. Keep in mind, my argument is intended only for ODI and T20 and not test cricket. In Test, we have nowhere to go... we are doomed
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  #13  
Old November 27, 2012, 07:19 PM
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if you just take one specialist pacer then you're going to need a pace allrounder permanently in the team , probably babu or maybe souyma/asif (if they're bowling is good enough). besides rubel is a good ODI bowler so he'd possibly be my pick if there was to only be one, but then mash and nazmul are good to in ODIs.
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  #14  
Old November 27, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinathq
Please provide some reasoning behind your argument.... For all you know, I might be wrong
Well I don't need to describe to you what 'pace' is do I? If we don't have pacers in our line up bowling consistently over 70mph for about 20 overs then how is the ball going to wear and tear so our spinners are effective later on? Also with slow bowling if the ball is not doing anything and its easy for batsman to score runs like New Zealand did at World T20 against us then you need your pacers obviously considering the pitch like in Pallekele was offering seam, swing and bounce. These are just a few points why pace bowling is vital in Cricket despite the surfaces because it can keep batsman of guard compared to spin. A lot of batsman especially tailenders struggle to play pace compared to spin so you obviously need your varieties in Cricket to maximise your chances in taking wickets.
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  #15  
Old November 27, 2012, 08:10 PM
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Its not a bad idea.... If team like India and England can do that what is wrong with us...

Looking at last mumbai test scorecard I can see India only picked Zaheer khan as a fast bowler.. on the other hand Endland picked Anderson and broad as fast bowler.. we all know broad is an AR and he was unused during 2nd innings...
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  #16  
Old November 27, 2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
if you just take one specialist pacer then you're going to need a pace allrounder permanently in the team , probably babu or maybe souyma/asif (if they're bowling is good enough). besides rubel is a good ODI bowler so he'd possibly be my pick if there was to only be one, but then mash and nazmul are good to in ODIs.
I think Zia is the best Medium Pace Allrounder ...
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  #17  
Old November 27, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinathq
and @BANFAN,

When a batting attack doesn't work you change players. That is exactly what I suggested for our bowling attack. If Pace doesnt work, go with spin...
2 man pace attack is fair enough. And sometimes 3 depending on the pitch & opposition. We played with 3 pacers in Asia Cup. And that did paid off to some extent. Only Shahadat leaked away most of the runs. But if we had Rubel then pace combo would've been better. For once, I'd love to see BD settle for a 3 man pace attack consisting Mash, Rubel & Nazmul.
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  #18  
Old November 27, 2012, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
I think Zia is the best Medium Pace Allrounder ...
when zia plays for the national team he barely bowls so obviously they don't think too much of his bowling, plus he's the textbook definition of a blind slogger. alauddin has potential with the ball bowling 130kph+, just recently took a 6fer in the NCL and just got a century to and he isn't a blind slogger like zia.

i know zia is on the fringes of the national team and closer to it than alauddin but i really think alauddin is a better pick than him, he's got more potential and he's also a better performer. if they pick zia they may as well pick a specialist batsman because at most he'll probably bowl only a couple of overs which can basically be made up from spinners anyway. abul as an allrounder would be a better pick than zia.
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Old November 27, 2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMD128
2 man pace attack is fair enough. And sometimes 3 depending on the pitch & opposition. We played with 3 pacers in Asia Cup. And that did paid off to some extent. Only Shahadat leaked away most of the runs. But if we had Rubel then pace combo would've been better. For once, I'd love to see BD settle for a 3 man pace attack consisting Mash, Rubel & Nazmul.
yes, mash, rubel and nazmul is a really solid pace attack in ODIs.
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  #20  
Old November 27, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
if you just take one specialist pacer then you're going to need a pace allrounder permanently in the team , probably babu or maybe souyma/asif (if they're bowling is good enough). besides rubel is a good ODI bowler so he'd possibly be my pick if there was to only be one, but then mash and nazmul are good to in ODIs.
Abul can bat a little, I think.
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  #21  
Old November 27, 2012, 10:05 PM
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I would suggest a poll on this. I completely agree that we need to play with 1 pacer at the most. Naeem, Razzak, or Gazi can easily open the bowling. Anyone from Sunny or Enamul will do a better job than our 2nd pacer on most of the days in home conditions. In fact The 2 left arm spinners not in the squad now are even better than Gazi in terms of quality.
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  #22  
Old November 27, 2012, 10:13 PM
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For limited overs cricket we do have decent options in Mash, Nazmul and Rubel. I am sure Taposh, Kamrul Islam and the other NCL pacers couldn't do any worse than SRK and Abul.

The pace bowling option for the test side is a huge worry.
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  #23  
Old November 27, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
For limited overs cricket we do have decent options in Mash, Nazmul and Rubel. I am sure Taposh, Kamrul Islam and the other NCL pacers couldn't do any worse than SRK and Abul.

The pace bowling option for the test side is a huge worry.
test pace battery is a worry but there is potential there but the pacers need a good coach that will be there day in day out and workout the issues. we have the rubel's, abul's, kamrul's, sajidul's, but they need constant top quality coaching for the moment to get them to world class level. although i think playing nazmul for a decent period is worth a shot.
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  #24  
Old November 27, 2012, 10:16 PM
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The only reason we are even having this conversation is that we do not have world class pacers. Mash is a shadow of his old self. Rubel is just recovering from his injury. The rest are just flashes in the pan - one good outing followed by a Niagara of run leaks the next ten innings.
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  #25  
Old November 27, 2012, 10:20 PM
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also the selectors and need a proper development plan for each pace prospect. like farhad reza is opening the bowling for the BCB XI right now. why isn't one of the kamrul's or dollar or sajidul or babu or jayed or taskin etc opening? it's no wonder the pacers don't develop very well, they don't even get the chance to.
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