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View Poll Results: Who will you pick in your test team?
Kallis 14 77.78%
Sachin 4 22.22%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old December 12, 2012, 01:46 PM
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BrianLara7 BrianLara7 is offline
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Default Kallis vs Sachin

Well Kallis is unarguably the better cricketer by some distance (bowling no comparison, clearly better fielder as well) but let's compare their batting. This is about test cricket and Bangladesh/ Zimbabwe stats not included (sorry Sachin)

(146 matches) Kallis avg- 54.47 with 40 hundreds.
(177 matches) Sachin avg- 51.69 with 43 hundreds.

Am I committing blasphemy against Bhagwan by suggesting that Kallis might just be as good (if not better) batsman as Sachin?
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  #2  
Old December 12, 2012, 01:53 PM
zsayeed zsayeed is offline
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Hands down Kallis - super all rounder.
And no blasphemy exists - after Sobers Era - he is the greatest.
And batting - your stats speak for themselves.
Kallis Kallis and Kallis.

And the Bhagwan bit - that is the stupid mentality that ails India.

Bhagwan hoibo 100 bochor porey - not while you are on the pitch. Doing it the other way is blasphemy!
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  #3  
Old December 12, 2012, 01:56 PM
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If you consider contribution wise, i.e when the team needed him the most....Kallis will stand out.
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  #4  
Old December 12, 2012, 02:45 PM
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If it's against Australia, I'd pick neither and go with Laxman :p
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  #5  
Old December 12, 2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
If you consider contribution wise, i.e when the team needed him the most....Kallis will stand out.
It's funny how Kallis never gets the due he deserves but when you see the actual stats Kallis has played major roles in winning only test series wins in both Australia and India while Tendulkar has never been able to win a test series in Australia or South Africa even at their weakest. Cricket is a team sport, not individual gloryhunting. To me Laxman/ Dravid is a better test player because they have actually performed when it mattered and got India their few overseas wins.
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  #6  
Old December 12, 2012, 04:23 PM
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Sachin, Chokedulkar then, Chokedulkar now.

All Kallis needs is a WC title.
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  #7  
Old December 12, 2012, 05:20 PM
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Obviously Kallis. Sachin is too overrated about 1/5 of his 100s came against teams like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Namibia etc. Kallis is a batting all-rounder not a genuine all-rounder like Saqibul Hasan.
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  #8  
Old December 12, 2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyRoom
Obviously Kallis. Sachin is too overrated about 1/5 of his 100s came against teams like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Namibia etc. Kallis is a batting all-rounder not a genuine all-rounder like Saqibul Hasan.
Let's not get carried away, Kallis has cemented his place alongside Sobers as the greatest all rounder ever. You don't get almost 300 test wickets (more in the future) without being an all rounder, he has had some brilliant bowling performances (help win matches in India and Australia) but due to sharing the team with likes of Morkel/ Steyn, Donald and Pollock he hasn't been needed to bowl many overs. I hope Shakib can learn from him and get even close to Kallis at the end of his career.
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  #9  
Old December 12, 2012, 06:01 PM
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^ Brianlara7, the question is, would Kallis have gotten into the South African team on his bowling alone? Looking back on 15+ years of international cricket, where he has bowled admirably as 4th or 5th change, his wicket tally looks impressive - but he's also bowled in 260 innings to get them. So he's been good, very good on occasion, and most importantly, he has had a long shelf life. But the point being made is whether a player would be able to make it into his team as either a bowler or as a batsman and I'm not sure if Kallis would always make it into the team purely as a bowler, given the stiff competition in South Africa. His skills are clearly not even balanced, especially considering his gargantuan batting average. However, obviously it's his overwhelming presence as a batsman and the total package he brings as a player, that makes him invaluable.
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  #10  
Old December 12, 2012, 06:23 PM
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@Brianlara7: That line you highlighted was a serious statement from me. Kallis has 'almost' 300 not quite test wickets because he has played a staggering more than 150 TEST MATCHES and he has only three five wicket hauls whereas Shakib in just 28 test matches has already nine five wicket hauls so you see my point? there are far too many batting and bowling all-rounders and Shakib is neither a batting nor bowling specialist but a genuine proper good all-rounder who gives it his all for the team. You even answered my point for me that because South Africa has the bowlers, there's really no need for them to use Kallis which is why I've said Kallis is more of a specialist batsman than an all-rounder. Though his bowling is okay, there's still a huge difference between his bowling and batting and batting is his main strength. Shakib equally focuses on both batting and bowling he even admitted it in on one of the Cricinfo articles a long while back otherwise he would've concentrated more on his batting.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/559307.html
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  #11  
Old December 12, 2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
^ Brianlara7, the question is, would Kallis have gotten into the South African team on his bowling alone? Looking back on 15+ years of international cricket, where he has bowled admirably as 4th or 5th change, his wicket tally looks impressive - but he's also bowled in 260 innings to get them. So he's been good, very good on occasion, and most importantly, he has had a long shelf life. But the point being made is whether a player would be able to make it into his team as either a bowler or as a batsman and I'm not sure if Kallis would always make it into the team purely as a bowler, given the stiff competition in South Africa. His skills are clearly not even balanced, especially considering his gargantuan batting average. However, obviously it's his overwhelming presence as a batsman and the total package he brings as a player, that makes him invaluable.
Thats a bit unfair because Kallis would walk into Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, WI, and maybe a couple other teams on his bowling alone. Gotta look at his strike rate, which isn't all that bad at under 70.

Kallis' overall averages indicate he's the better batsman even though he is likely to take a dip if he plays for another couple years. But I doubt any major player has choked as much as Tendulkar so that almost guarantees Kallis is the bigger better batsman.
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  #12  
Old December 12, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Class over KFC

Sachin
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  #13  
Old December 12, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Class over KFC

Sachin
Even with all his choking?
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  #14  
Old December 12, 2012, 09:30 PM
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Can bat and can bowl, obviously I'd go with Kallis.
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  #15  
Old December 12, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
^ Brianlara7, the question is, would Kallis have gotten into the South African team on his bowling alone? Looking back on 15+ years of international cricket, where he has bowled admirably as 4th or 5th change, his wicket tally looks impressive - but he's also bowled in 260 innings to get them. So he's been good, very good on occasion, and most importantly, he has had a long shelf life. But the point being made is whether a player would be able to make it into his team as either a bowler or as a batsman and I'm not sure if Kallis would always make it into the team purely as a bowler, given the stiff competition in South Africa. His skills are clearly not even balanced, especially considering his gargantuan batting average. However, obviously it's his overwhelming presence as a batsman and the total package he brings as a player, that makes him invaluable.
It seems like Kallis' massive average (highest of modern era) has created the perception of him just being a batsman who can bowl a bit. But then again Sobers was clearly a better batsman than bowler, all allrounders have their specialty and Kallis is clearly a batting allrounder. He can still hold his own as a bowler specially when you have so called top bowlers around the world who average same as him (Zaheer, Gul etc)
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  #16  
Old December 12, 2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Thats a bit unfair because Kallis would walk into Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, WI, and maybe a couple other teams on his bowling alone. Gotta look at his strike rate, which isn't all that bad at under 70.

Kallis' overall averages indicate he's the better batsman even though he is likely to take a dip if he plays for another couple years. But I doubt any major player has choked as much as Tendulkar so that almost guarantees Kallis is the bigger better batsman.
Some commentator (maybe Ganguly) said Kallis is Sachin plus zaheer. He averages higher than sachin and equal to Zaheer as bowler.. lol.
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  #17  
Old December 13, 2012, 02:56 AM
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Id say more on the lines of

Dravid + Zaheer = Kallis
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  #18  
Old December 13, 2012, 03:26 AM
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If the all-round aspect of Kallis can be ignored, from a purely batting point of view I would rate Sachin above Kallis. Sachin is a genius when it comes to batting and he is equally good in both long and short forms of the game. There is not a single shot he can't play... all kinds or sweep shots, hooks, pulls, uppercuts.. he nails every shot to perfection. These days his ability has deteriorated significantly but when he was at his prime against Wasim, Ambrose, Donald, Mcgrath, Warne and co. he had the ability to dominate attacks and dictate terms and look really good while doing it. To me a better debate would be between Lara and Tendulkar.

Kallis is a very capable and effective batsman and so is Cook. They will both be legends in their own right. Their stats might even be better than both Lara and Sachin but it's not the same when I watch Lara, Sachin bat and when I watch Kallis or Cook bat.

This is just from my own perspective but Tendulkar has been declared the best by the renowned cricketers as well:

Ricky Ponting:
'Punter' Ponting has rated Sachin Tendulkar the best batsmen of his generation, placing Tendulkar higher on the pecking order than the likes of Brian Lara, Matthew Hayden and the Waugh twins. Ponting freely admitted the diminutive batting maestro from Bombay had the ability to win any match off his own bat." I've always thought he's the best batsman I've seen or played against," said Ponting. "Looking at the way he's played of late I think he's getting somewhere back to his best again. As we've seen in the past, he's actually won games against us single-handedly on occasions."

Australian first-class cricketers:
India's Sachin Tendulkar and Australia's Glenn McGrath have been rated the best in the business in a survey of Australia's 145 first class players. Sixty eight percent of those questioned said Tendulkar was the world's best batsman ahead of Australian captain Steve Waugh (27 percent) and West Indian Brian Lara (three percent).

Steve Waugh:
"You take Don Bradman away and he (Sachin) is next up, I reckon."

Marlon Samuels:
"Sachin is the best batsman in the world. The way he lifts the team and the way he bats. Watching him play helps me in my batting."

Andy Flower:
"There's Sachin on one hand, and then there are the rest of us."

Glenn McGrath:
"For me, it's Tendulkar. Both are class acts (lara vs Tendul) but I am saying this because I have had more success against Lara than I have against Tendulkar. I think I have a fair idea of what Lara likes and doesn't like and I feel I can make his life at the crease very uncomfortable. He is vulnerable outside the off-stump early on and is not as tight as Tendulkar in defense. I would go for Tendulkar as the best in the world."


Only guy that has that kind of aura of genius about him right now is K. Pietersen
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  #19  
Old December 13, 2012, 04:06 AM
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I think its necessary to distinguish between Sachin's Test career and ODI career at this point. I feel that many of the sparkling comments made about him are directed towards his ODI batting, when, for a long time he was India's greatest match winner. And you can see why - more than 18,000 runs and 49 centuries in a career that has covered over 20 years and all of that at a very impressive SR of 86+. That is longevity and brilliance. You can see why people, when he was at his best, considered him the best in the business in ODIs. (These stats are despite his failing form over the last few years)
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Old December 13, 2012, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
I think its necessary to distinguish between Sachin's Test career and ODI career at this point. I feel that many of the sparkling comments made about him are directed towards his ODI batting, when, for a long time he was India's greatest match winner. And you can see why - more than 18,000 runs and 49 centuries in a career that has covered over 20 years and all of that at a very impressive SR of 86+. That is longevity and brilliance. You can see why people, when he was at his best, considered him the best in the business in ODIs. (These stats are despite his failing form over the last few years)
The problem is the thread opener has framed the opening question in such a way that he leaves very little opportunity for any meaningful debate. He basically wants the answer that he wants to hear which is Kallis is a better pick than Sachin.

It's like if I came up with a thread called Shakib vs Kallis and wrote "only consider home series vs. NZ in ODI" to make Shakib's case stronger.


I simply looked at both from an overall batting point of view regardless of any particular format to make the discussion less one sided.
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  #21  
Old December 13, 2012, 07:04 AM
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i think kallis is a no brainer because of his bowling. plus kallis onsong looks so in control and so awesome to watch he makes batting look so easy when in good form. i think if you were to make an all time test XI both have a strong case on batting alone which is why i think kallis is the easy pick if you have to pick one or the other, kallis just offers more.
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  #22  
Old December 13, 2012, 10:45 AM
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I wouldn't vote on this poll just because they are two different players. One is an AR and the other is a genuine batsman who is not bad with the ball either.

But, if I was put a gun to my forehead, I'd go with Sachin.
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  #23  
Old December 13, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
The problem is the thread opener has framed the opening question in such a way that he leaves very little opportunity for any meaningful debate. He basically wants the answer that he wants to hear which is Kallis is a better pick than Sachin.

It's like if I came up with a thread called Shakib vs Kallis and wrote "only consider home series vs. NZ in ODI" to make Shakib's case stronger.


I simply looked at both from an overall batting point of view regardless of any particular format to make the discussion less one sided.
lol, so discluding Zimbabwe and Bangladesh from tests means I am biased? Well ofcourse I am, it's my fault that Sachin averages lot less than Kallis when these two "test" teams are taken out.
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  #24  
Old December 13, 2012, 01:35 PM
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^ No, that's not his point. Do you want to have a debate/discussion or do you just want to make a statement/point? You seem very set on your belief that Kallis is better, so if you're opting for the latter then don't open a thread and instead send the BC Editorial Team an article explicating and analyzing why Kallis is so much better than Sachin. If it's good, it could get published.

Ultimately, people have varying parameters for greatness and it just so happens, more people feel that Sachin satisfies that than Kallis. Don't begrudge them that just because of Test stats.
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Old December 13, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
^ No, that's not his point. Do you want to have a debate/discussion or do you just want to make a statement/point? You seem very set on your belief that Kallis is better, so if you're opting for the latter then don't open a thread and instead send the BC Editorial Team an article explicating and analyzing why Kallis is so much better than Sachin. If it's good, it could get published.

Ultimately, people have varying parameters for greatness and it just so happens, more people feel that Sachin satisfies that than Kallis. Don't begrudge them that just because of Test stats.
I don't know why you have to so passionately defend him.. you are acting as if people on this forum are all biased fools and that's why they are picking Kallis. More people feel Sachin is better because main cricket websites and channels are all owned by Indians.. you will not find anyone hyping Kallis to be greater than Sachin regardless of the facts.
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