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  #26  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:22 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
The Constitution is the supreme law of Bangladesh. If any law in the country is incompatible with the Constitution then it is rendered null and void. Therefore, if there is some law that is religiously discriminatory, then that can be brought before the High Court Division of the Supreme Court of Bangladesh under Article 102 of the Constitution (our Judicial Review clause) through a writ petition and set aside/quashed etc.

In addition to Article 41 cited in that article by Barrister Harun-ur-Rashid, I'll refer you to some other constitutional provisions that are key:

- The Preamble: which after the 15th Amendment, retains "Bismillah-Ar-Rahman-Ar-Rahim" but also re-institutes "nationalism, socialism, democracy and secularism" as the fundamental principles of the Constitution.

- Article 2A: "The state religion of the Republic is Islam, but the State shall ensure equal status and equal right in the practice of the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian and other religions."
Awesome Input, Always nice to get an input from someone who is a associated with the legal system of Bangladesh.
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  #27  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:35 PM
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No matter how much I might dislike Jamaat, if BAL and BNP can exist as a political party and participate in election, I fail to see why Jamaat can't.

BAL sells 71, Jamaat sells Islam and BNP sells whatever they can get their hands on to. Beside the selling pitch, there isn't much difference between the three parties, ideologically, morally or politically. BJI has been a part of the coalition of both parties at some point to uproot the other party, in '96 with BAL against BNP and with BNP against BAL in 2001 and ever since. Chattra Dal/League/Shibir all have plundered, killed and terrorized the university campuses whenever their big daddies were in power.

The top BJI leaders have done heinous crime against Bangladeshis in 1971 and they should be punished for that. But since then, both BAL and BNP is committing the same heinous crimes and more against the Bangladeshis under the veil of democracy. All three are active dalals of you know who and works for their respective Godfather's agenda rather than that of Bangladesh.

If we are to ban, we need to ban all three. Or else, BJI has as much right as a political party as BAL and BNP does.
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  #28  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:47 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabz
No matter how much I might dislike Jamaat, if BAL and BNP can exist as a political party and participate in election, I fail to see why Jamaat can't.

BAL sells 71, Jamaat sells Islam and BNP sells whatever they can get their hands on to. Beside the selling pitch, there isn't much difference between the three parties, ideologically, morally or politically. BJI has been a part of the coalition of both parties at some point to uproot the other party, in '96 with BAL against BNP and with BNP against BAL in 2001 and ever since. Chattra Dal/League/Shibir all have plundered, killed and terrorized the university campuses whenever their big daddies were in power.

The top BJI leaders have done heinous crime against Bangladeshis in 1971 and they should be punished for that. But since then, both BAL and BNP is committing the same heinous crimes and more against the Bangladeshis under the veil of democracy. All three are active dalals of you know who and works for their respective Godfather's agenda rather than that of Bangladesh.

If we are to ban, we need to ban all three. Or else, BJI has as much right as a political party as BAL and BNP does.
Please correct me if I am wrong but AL did not form a coalition with Jamat to my understanding, altho they both had the common agenda of removing BNP from power.
I agree with the notion that all 3 parties are evil however I dont agree with allowing a party to conduct politics by selling religion. It is always the duty of the majority to protect the minorities and we all know what Jamat represents. The fact that they are allowed into politics is mind boggling to say the least (it is like allowing Nazi to participate in national election)..
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  #29  
Old January 30, 2013, 07:55 PM
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In terms of solving our political issues, what's important is to first identify the root cause. What should be banned is possessing illegal firearms, thuggery, harboring miscreants, hartals and strikes; and law enforcement agencies should be strengthened to enforce these bans against any party that violate the rules. This will solve problems and should be the first and foremost priority.

Banning religious or non religious groups will do jack $hit towards solving anything. Past rulers like Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin were far removed from any religion and yet we know about their holy deeds.
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  #30  
Old January 30, 2013, 08:38 PM
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If JMB, JMJB, Harkatul Jihad, Hizbut Tahrir can be banned on the basis of 'Militancy and Terrorism' then i find no reason why Jamat and Shibir shouldn't be banned from politics let alone participating in Elections. IMO, no religious group should be allowed to participate in active politics, cause 'religion' is a sacred thing, no one should be allowed to take advantage of it for the sake of their own interest. That will only pollute the religion itself and create discrepancies in the society. And knowing the activities of extremist religious groups, the life of thousands of peace-loving Bangladeshis will be at risk.

So, A BIG FAT "NO" !!!!
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  #31  
Old January 30, 2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Please correct me if I am wrong but AL did not form a coalition with Jamat to my understanding, altho they both had the common agenda of removing BNP from power.
I agree with the notion that all 3 parties are evil however I dont agree with allowing a party to conduct politics by selling religion. It is always the duty of the majority to protect the minorities and we all know what Jamat represents. The fact that they are allowed into politics is mind boggling to say the least (it is like allowing Nazi to participate in national election)..
Didnt AL form coalition with khelafot mojlish or whatever it is called?
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  #32  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
If JMB, JMJB, Harkatul Jihad, Hizbut Tahrir can be banned on the basis of 'Militancy and Terrorism' then i find no reason why Jamat and Shibir shouldn't be banned from politics let alone participating in Elections. IMO, no religious group should be allowed to participate in active politics, cause 'religion' is a sacred thing, no one should be allowed to take advantage of it for the sake of their own interest. That will only pollute the religion itself and create discrepancies in the society. And knowing the activities of extremist religious groups, the life of thousands of peace-loving Bangladeshis will be at risk.

So, A BIG FAT "NO" !!!!
I am in somewhat agreement with the general theme of your post. I don't like Jamat because they misrepresent Islam. Where I disagree is identifying Jamat as the only terrorist group out of AL/BNP/JI. Jamat has been steadily losing strength, popularity and support from people. But why isn't law and order improving in our country? Why is it called terrorist activity only when it's commited by Jamat and not by AL/BNP? This is where the priorities are getting misplaced. First priority must be to eradicate terrorism/shontrashi/extortion no matter who commits it and to which party the perpetrator belongs. If we're banning parties why can't we ban all parties that commit terrorism/shontrashi/extortion?
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  #33  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Awesome Input, Always nice to get an input from someone who is a associated with the legal system of Bangladesh.
buro angul dekhano shovoniya noy in legal system of Bangladesh....
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  #34  
Old January 30, 2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
I am in somewhat agreement with the general theme of your post. I don't like Jamat because they misrepresent Islam. Where I disagree is identifying Jamat as the only terrorist group out of AL/BNP/JI. Jamat has been steadily losing strength, popularity and support from people. But why isn't law and order improving in our country? Why is it called terrorist activity only when it's commited by Jamat and not by AL/BNP? This is where the priorities are getting misplaced. First priority must be to eradicate terrorism/shontrashi/extortion no matter who commits it and to which party the perpetrator belongs. If we're banning parties why can't we ban all parties that commit terrorism/shontrashi/extortion?
Fully agreed. No compromise on that.

But those religious groups are not only accused of creating terror in the society, but they are also misinterpreting the Holy books. Those groups are creating their own verses/ fatwas and misguiding innocent people. If you haven't been to villages then you won't understand how those groups are brain washing young children and poor people. They are violating the true meaning of religion and spreading hatred amongst us. Any educated person whether he practices religion or not, should not follow their footsteps and be misguided.
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  #35  
Old January 30, 2013, 11:32 PM
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The founding principles of Bangladesh, a country that won her independence on the battlefield with a long history of popular democratic struggles, are as follows:

1) Democracy: I understand this to be equal treatment under the law in a state run by elected representatives. So, it's not just about majority rule, but also the diligent protection of the civil and political rights of the minority.

2) Nationalism: I understand this to be a "Bangladesh First" attitude reinforced by "Bangladesh First" actions. A part of that is understanding our history and nurturing our Bangali as well as indigenous cultures.

3) Secularism: I understand this to be religious freedom and the separation of religion and state. That being said, I fully support a state influenced by sacred values as long as it's not a totalitarian theocracy under the guise of "majority-rule democracy" subverting real democracy.

4) Socialism: I understand this to be equal economic opportunity, justice and freedom in a compassionate society where taxed citizens must be provided with a socioeconomic safety net through a variety of services (someday efficiently run) such as (but not limited to) public education, healthcare and affirmative action.

I believe in the aforementioned foundation to be a direct reflection of the will of our people as determined by our Constitutional Assembly, and consider not believing in that foundation to be fundamentally anti-Bangladeshi. That being said, not believing in the foundation is also the constitutionally guaranteed right of each and every citizen in the country. People have the right to be "wrong" in a democratic state as long as they're not violating the law consistent with the letter and the spirit of the Constitution.

Banning a group of loud, wealthy and misguided folks sublimating their issues under the cover of religion, and trying to create a state where they become intermediaries of GOD and compel people to follow what GOD Himself makes free of compulsion, is unconstitutional and therefore also anti-Bangladeshi.

The focus should be on what laws under the penal code they're violating, from criminal to financial to anti-terrorism laws, to perpetuate their political agenda, not their right to free speech and assembly. These guys are not and will never be a viable political force in this country. Without forming a coalition with a major party, they're not capable of getting more than 5 seats in our Parliament of 300.
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  #36  
Old January 30, 2013, 11:42 PM
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There are few valid reasons why religion and politics shouldn't mix. Two main cases that I can think about:

- Religious politicians will take advantage of people's religious belief to get vote instead of having a valid platform to improve country or living standard of the people. If a popular religious figure runs for office says something like "vote for me and god will take care of you", overwhelming poor, uneducated and in some cases, educated people will eat that sh8t up like there is no tomorrow.

- Religious groups are exempt from tax and enjoy other gov, subsidies and benefits from no checks are balances. Giving them unfair advantage over legitimate political parties. If religious group wants to run for political parties then can't have such benefits. Its only fair. Tax exemption is HUGE business for religious groups, they are very unlikely to give that up.

As to whether or not Jamaat should be banned or not. If its against the constitution of the country to allow political parties that runs on religious premise then they have no business doing any politics. They have other ways to steal people's money.

"They weren't banned so far and so shouldn't" is not a good argument. Just because they were allowed to dik around, doesn't mean they should be allowed to dik around forever. Sometimes you need the right political atmosphere to take on difficult political issues. Its not like no one talked about it all these years, they did but there wasn't enough popular support to do it. Jamaat support is worst in the country right now AFAIK, so it should be the right time to do it.
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  #37  
Old January 31, 2013, 05:36 AM
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Exactly my POV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
In terms of solving our political issues, what's important is to first identify the root cause. What should be banned is possessing illegal firearms, thuggery, harboring miscreants, hartals and strikes; and law enforcement agencies should be strengthened to enforce these bans against any party that violate the rules. This will solve problems and should be the first and foremost priority.

Banning religious or non religious groups will do jack $hit towards solving anything. Past rulers like Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin were far removed from any religion and yet we know about their holy deeds.
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  #38  
Old January 31, 2013, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah
There are few valid reasons why religion and politics shouldn't mix. Two main cases that I can think about:

- Religious politicians will take advantage of people's religious belief to get vote instead of having a valid platform to improve country or living standard of the people. If a popular religious figure runs for office says something like "vote for me and god will take care of you", overwhelming poor, uneducated and in some cases, educated people will eat that sh8t up like there is no tomorrow. .

And yet, that has not worked in Bangladesh for them in any of the elections so far.
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  #39  
Old January 31, 2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabz
No matter how much I might dislike Jamaat, if BAL and BNP can exist as a political party and participate in election, I fail to see why Jamaat can't.

BAL sells 71, Jamaat sells Islam and BNP sells whatever they can get their hands on to. Beside the selling pitch, there isn't much difference between the three parties, ideologically, morally or politically. BJI has been a part of the coalition of both parties at some point to uproot the other party, in '96 with BAL against BNP and with BNP against BAL in 2001 and ever since. Chattra Dal/League/Shibir all have plundered, killed and terrorized the university campuses whenever their big daddies were in power.

The top BJI leaders have done heinous crime against Bangladeshis in 1971 and they should be punished for that. But since then, both BAL and BNP is committing the same heinous crimes and more against the Bangladeshis under the veil of democracy. All three are active dalals of you know who and works for their respective Godfather's agenda rather than that of Bangladesh.

If we are to ban, we need to ban all three. Or else, BJI has as much right as a political party as BAL and BNP does.
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  #40  
Old February 1, 2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
And yet, that has not worked in Bangladesh for them in any of the elections so far.
The fact that they were part of coalition gov. more than once is scary enough.

The laws are not made for case by case basis or whether something happened in the past or not. It applies to everyone, all the time irregardless of past examples.

Jamaat was just bad at what they do, they are not good manipulator of religious sentiments. Yet there are people who follow them only because of their religious affiliation, not because of their political platform. Doesn't mean there wont be someone in the future who is good at manipulating religious sentiment.

While a small party, jamaat is not insignificant. They are big enough to close down the country by calling hartal whenever they want.
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  #41  
Old February 1, 2013, 01:20 AM
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The flip side of banning religion affiliated parties is that it will destroy the chain of command and that in turn might make these groups to go underground and transform into terrorist cells. So far the attacks have been on police and chatro league only but what if their focus shifts to civilians? The government needs to be prepared and decide future steps carefully. At the moment our intelligence agencies have done absolutely nothing.
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  #42  
Old February 1, 2013, 02:06 AM
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^^^
Forget about religion, if any political party violate the principle of democracy (equal rights to everyone) then that party should NOT be allowed to take part in politics. Now, we all know about Jamat-E-Islami and Shibir. Do you think they follow the principle of democracy ? They don't even count minorities as human to have a safe and peaceful life in this country.

And i don't buy the concept that banning will backfire us. Of course those groups will try to retaliate. What do you expect them ? Go to home and pray to God !? All those religious extremist groups are run by foreign aid. Cut those links so that they don't get enough funds. Restrict their movements by not allowing them to make any hatred speeches against any minorities. Monitor them strongly so that they don't get easy chance to destroy people's wealth. Once you start following strict actions against them, they will eventually become weak and powerless.
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  #43  
Old February 1, 2013, 02:49 AM
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Have you seen this new op-ed on BDNews24: As Jamaat-e-Islami goes to war, is the AL ready?
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  #44  
Old February 1, 2013, 07:09 AM
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Frankly for a country like Bangladesh, it doesn't really matter. Its still Nixon's basket-case politically. The vacuum would be filled by BNP/AL anyways.
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  #45  
Old February 1, 2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
The flip side of banning religion affiliated parties is that it will destroy the chain of command and that in turn might make these groups to go underground and transform into terrorist cells. So far the attacks have been on police and chatro league only but what if their focus shifts to civilians? The government needs to be prepared and decide future steps carefully. At the moment our intelligence agencies have done absolutely nothing.
Correct. Banning will lead them underground and thats much more dangerous. We had to fight 25 years, these Shanti Bahini, Sharbahara for over 30 years ... We don't afford to create another underground group. And banning an ideology isn't democratic either. Let them say and let the people reject in votes, as long as they are wrong.

Last edited by BANFAN; February 1, 2013 at 09:54 AM..
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  #46  
Old February 1, 2013, 09:06 AM
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In a democracy, anyone, and everyone has the right stand in election, so I don't see how you can ignore them. It's up to the people to decide if they will let religious groups dictate their future.

I personally do not support religious groups during elections. A country should be run by a netural party IMO.
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  #47  
Old February 1, 2013, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Frankly for a country like Bangladesh, it doesn't really matter. Its still Nixon's sic [Kissinger's] basket-case politically. The vacuum would be filled by BNP/AL anyways.
But the point still stands
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  #48  
Old February 1, 2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
But the point still stands
Good catch...my brain must be fried!
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  #49  
Old February 1, 2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
The Constitution is the supreme law of Bangladesh. If any law in the country is incompatible with the Constitution then it is rendered null and void. Therefore, if there is some law that is religiously discriminatory, then that can be brought before the High Court Division of the Supreme Court of Bangladesh under Article 102 of the Constitution (our Judicial Review clause) through a writ petition and set aside/quashed etc.

In addition to Article 41 cited in that article by Barrister Harun-ur-Rashid, I'll refer you to some other constitutional provisions that are key:

- The Preamble: which after the 15th Amendment, retains "Bismillah-Ar-Rahman-Ar-Rahim" but also re-institutes "nationalism, socialism, democracy and secularism" as the fundamental principles of the Constitution.

- Article 2A: "The state religion of the Republic is Islam, but the State shall ensure equal status and equal right in the practice of the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian and other religions."
Sorry, I should have added this as well:

Article 12. The principle of secularism shall be realised by the elimination of -
(a) communalism in all its forms;
(b) the granting by the State of political status in favour of any religion;
(c) the abuse of religion for political purposes;
(d) any discrimination against, or persecution of, persons practising a particular religion.

Source: Constitution of the People's Republic of Bangladesh, as updated in October, 2011

(Though the 295 BDT for the Print Edition isn't a bad purchase either, considering the ease of use...)
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Last edited by Navo; February 1, 2013 at 02:56 PM.. Reason: Source
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  #50  
Old February 1, 2013, 08:27 PM
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^^^ that's a very important point that you pointed out. Too bad, 99.5% people of Bangladesh don't know about those facts. Thanks for sharing.
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