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  #1  
Old June 27, 2013, 07:20 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Default Ireland and Test Cricket

they've got some pretty decent players, let's have a look at an XI:

1 Paul Stirling (FC average 29 - 3 centuries in 18 matches, ODI average 39 - 5 centuries 40 matches)
2 Ed Joyce (FC average 46 - 30 tons)
3 Andrew White (FC average 51 - 5 tons 31 matches)
4 Andre Botha (FC average 40 - 5 tons 30 matches, bowling average 25 strike rate 58)
5 Eoin Morgan (Test average 30 - 2 tons 16 matches, FC average 34 - 9 tons)
6 Niall O'brien (FC average 35 - 12 tons)
7 Kevin O'brien/Alex Cusack/John Mooney (FC bat averages 32-36, bowl averages 27-32)
8 Trent Johnston (FC bowling average 20, strike rate 42, batting average 22)
9 Tim Murtagh (FC bowl average is 27 strike rate 49 bat average 22)
10 George Dockrell (FC bowl average 29, strike rate 58, he's an SLA)
11 Boyd Rankin (FC bowl average 27 strike rate 44)

that's a pretty strong team. very very strong with the ball (all averaging under 30 with great strike rates) and quite strong with the bat (2 batsmen averaging 40+ and one averaging 50+).

of course a few of these players have moved on from Ireland and have played for England, but if Ireland was to get test status in the near future then this would be a very solid team for them to put on the park. It's pretty obvious they deserve test status.
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  #2  
Old June 27, 2013, 07:42 AM
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They deserve test status.
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  #3  
Old June 27, 2013, 09:04 PM
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The FC is where? England or Ireland?
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  #4  
Old June 27, 2013, 09:13 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
The FC is where? England or Ireland?
a lot of it is in England
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  #5  
Old June 27, 2013, 10:41 PM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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You know the same could have been said about Kenya once. Even they had a very strong lineup, and after their semi final surprise in 2003 a lot of people asked for their test status.

But what happened to them after that? The same reason why Ireland wont be getting test status. Not saying Bangladesh has the most brilliant first class cricket structure, but at least we have a pipeline in place, at least we have a strong Under 19 team, academy, decent flow of talent. One big player goes, another will step in. I am not sure you will be able to say the same about Ireland, and this was even mentioned by Kevin O Brien in a recent interview. Can Ireland produce more O Brien's and Morgans or are they benefitting from a golden generation? Kenya for instance couldnt produce any more Tikolo's and Odumbes and Otienos.
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  #6  
Old June 27, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Absolutely, they cannot do worse than us.
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  #7  
Old June 27, 2013, 11:16 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
You know the same could have been said about Kenya once. Even they had a very strong lineup, and after their semi final surprise in 2003 a lot of people asked for their test status.

But what happened to them after that? The same reason why Ireland wont be getting test status. Not saying Bangladesh has the most brilliant first class cricket structure, but at least we have a pipeline in place, at least we have a strong Under 19 team, academy, decent flow of talent. One big player goes, another will step in. I am not sure you will be able to say the same about Ireland, and this was even mentioned by Kevin O Brien in a recent interview. Can Ireland produce more O Brien's and Morgans or are they benefitting from a golden generation? Kenya for instance couldnt produce any more Tikolo's and Odumbes and Otienos.
but did kenya compete as good for as long as ireland have? ireland have probably been the #1 associate team for a decade, so though it can be argued it may be a golden era, they've kept it up for a decent period and besides that there are always a few irish players playing county cricket which is of decent standard (much better than any other associate standard or even countries like zimbabwe, NZ, BD, sri lanka).

so i hear the argument of this possibly being a golden era but being that they've been the best associate for a decade or so means they've got a decent group of players and in that period of time obviously a few new players come onto the scene as well so it's not like they had one good tournament, combine that with the fact that a lot of them are playing county cricket which is a good standard and they're doing pretty well (some very well) then it's obvious the talent is there and if they have get given the backing then they'll be able to have long term success.
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  #8  
Old June 28, 2013, 01:02 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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We ll have to see, time will tell. But one of the things i remember reading in the O Brien interview- Ireland dont have a big pool of cricketers. Its a country where cricket is a minnow sport compared to football, rugby etc. Youngsters are not thrilled at the prospect of becoming the next international star, unlike Bangladesh where its every school boys dream.

Btw Kenya did dominate for a while. Their rise in cricket was 4-5 years before us and the performed admirably well until the mid 2000's. But after guys like Tikolo, Odoyo, Odumbe, Obuya etc came to twilight of their careers things started slowing down. Same can happen to Ireland.

In this way Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are far ahead. Both have a lot more depth compared to associate countries in terms of infrastructure, age group teams, player pool, quality of domestic cricket, coaching etc. Bangladeshi cricket wont die if Shakib Al Hasan or Mushfiq retires. Zimbabwe has also shown they can replace one departing superstar with a new one.
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  #9  
Old June 28, 2013, 01:11 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
We ll have to see, time will tell. But one of the things i remember reading in the O Brien interview- Ireland dont have a big pool of cricketers. Its a country where cricket is a minnow sport compared to football, rugby etc. Youngsters are not thrilled at the prospect of becoming the next international star, unlike Bangladesh where its every school boys dream.

Btw Kenya did dominate for a while. Their rise in cricket was 4-5 years before us and the performed admirably well until the mid 2000's. But after guys like Tikolo, Odoyo, Odumbe, Obuya etc came to twilight of their careers things started slowing down. Same can happen to Ireland.

In this way Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are far ahead. Both have a lot more depth compared to associate countries in terms of infrastructure, age group teams, player pool, quality of domestic cricket, coaching etc. Bangladeshi cricket wont die if Shakib Al Hasan or Mushfiq retires. Zimbabwe has also shown they can replace one departing superstar with a new one.
BD didn't have any FC infrastructure when they got test status though. Also none of us I'm sure have seen the quality of Irish domestic cricket, whose to say if isn't better than BD's, it's not like BD has a strong domestic standard, certainly not compared to county and a lot of Irish players seem to be doing quite well there.
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  #10  
Old June 28, 2013, 06:04 AM
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Ireland has shown a lot of improvements over the past years. We'll have to keep in mind that they doesn't have a huge pool of players to pick from, given the low interest of the game in their home country. This is where it is significantly different from a country like Bangladesh. With the test status, one can only imagine that this interest will rise. Who knows what would've been the current state of Kenya if they'd been given the test status at that time? Who knows what would've been the current state of BD team if they were not given the test status? Sometimes its the little things like a single win over a top ranked side that can propel a nations towards embracing a new sport.

What many people are not aware of that Ireland has a pretty robust domestic structure in place. They've been hosting the Interprovincial tournaments for quite a some time now, and its pretty close to that of Zimbabwe in terms of quality.
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  #11  
Old June 28, 2013, 06:20 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
BD didn't have any FC infrastructure when they got test status though. Also none of us I'm sure have seen the quality of Irish domestic cricket, whose to say if isn't better than BD's, it's not like BD has a strong domestic standard, certainly not compared to county and a lot of Irish players seem to be doing quite well there.
Thats true. ICC granting us the test status had a lot to do with the marketing ability of our then president. I guess ICC considered the commercial etc side more than the sporting side. They probably thought country of 160 million avid cricket lovers would help grow the game. I remember Gordon Greenidge also warned us not to rush into test cricket. Who knows if ICC didnt give us test status and instead asked us to get our first class cricket in order, maybe we would have been better prepared.

But i dont think ICC will grant Ireland test status. The bitter lesson of Bangladesh will ring in their head. Besides the size of player pool, general interest in the game will also have a role.
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  #12  
Old June 29, 2013, 02:57 AM
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I think and hope that the ICC does give Ireland Test status and does it soon. Jeesh, I disagree in that I think Ireland can reproduce the talent they already have and likely will be better. They are building their own domestic FC league, and cricket's popularity is growing there.

Simply put there needs to be more Test nations. We don't need 20 or 30, but it would be good to have 16 Test nations by the year 2050 or so. That should be the ICC's top priority.
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  #13  
Old June 29, 2013, 05:16 AM
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I do agree about having more test teams, otherwise this game will die. Those who have witnessed cricket of the 1990's and early 2000's can contend the number of talented players have dwindled significantly. There is a lot of competition from other sports.
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  #14  
Old June 29, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Jeesh bhai, comparing Kenya to Ireland is like comparing an apple to an orange. Consider the financial positions of the 2 countries. I don't like to get down on Kenya like this but they are a much poorer country and that did them in unfortunately. The mismanagement of their talent base has been their downfall unfortunately. Maybe giving them the Test status could have saved them because they can't survive on their own, they needed help which they couldn't get. Even though we talk about getting the Test status too early, I feel in some ways our cricket has benefitted from it. I really doubt that we would have been able to be this good being an associate. Developing countries like Bangladesh, Kenya and Zimbabwe need all the help they can get financially.

Also don't forget they have a very good sporting culture, much better than the subcontinental countries. So if they can be successful in other sports then why not cricket?

That being said, there will be concerns of Ireland's ceiling. They are a country of about only 6 million and on top of that cricket is probably their 4th or 5th sport. I have my doubts that cricket will ever be #1 in Ireland. It reminds me of another team, New Zealand. If we can get another NZ type team though, it would be very good for cricket as they usually do very well in ICC tournament. And as a Test side, I don't know how high Ireland can go in the standings but I see them being a decent side
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Old July 1, 2013, 04:48 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
Jeesh bhai, comparing Kenya to Ireland is like comparing an apple to an orange. Consider the financial positions of the 2 countries. I don't like to get down on Kenya like this but they are a much poorer country and that did them in unfortunately. The mismanagement of their talent base has been their downfall unfortunately. Maybe giving them the Test status could have saved them because they can't survive on their own, they needed help which they couldn't get. Even though we talk about getting the Test status too early, I feel in some ways our cricket has benefitted from it. I really doubt that we would have been able to be this good being an associate. Developing countries like Bangladesh, Kenya and Zimbabwe need all the help they can get financially.

Also don't forget they have a very good sporting culture, much better than the subcontinental countries. So if they can be successful in other sports then why not cricket?

That being said, there will be concerns of Ireland's ceiling. They are a country of about only 6 million and on top of that cricket is probably their 4th or 5th sport. I have my doubts that cricket will ever be #1 in Ireland. It reminds me of another team, New Zealand. If we can get another NZ type team though, it would be very good for cricket as they usually do very well in ICC tournament. And as a Test side, I don't know how high Ireland can go in the standings but I see them being a decent side
similar to NZ but they've got county cricket at their disposal which should give them an advantage.
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Old July 1, 2013, 06:07 AM
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I really admire New Zealand. Whatever sports they are into, they do remarkably well. A country of 4.5 Million ended up 15th in the Olympics Final Table. Even during the last FIFA World Cup they did remarkably well considering they were ranked in the 140's.

Every cricket tournament of prominence, they somehow manage to step up.
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Old July 1, 2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Absolutely, they cannot do worse than us.
Let's talk about few new generation cricketers of Ireland...








In Bangladesh's case, you would find plenty to talk about...!
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  #18  
Old July 4, 2013, 01:16 AM
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they just trounced Netherlands in the ICC intercontinental by 279 runs. anderson got a ton in the first innings, mooney got 60 odd in the first innings and 40 odd in the 2nd as well as 2 wickets for the match. white got a half ton in the 2nd innings, sorenson got 5 for the match and dockrell got 9/71 for the match
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  #19  
Old July 4, 2013, 04:57 AM
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Bangladesh are definitely scared
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  #20  
Old July 10, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Ireland qualify for Wc 15

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  #21  
Old July 10, 2013, 11:55 PM
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Ireland qualify for Wc 15

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hope they cause a commotion tbh. i don't want test cricket standard to drop anymore than it currently is but i really do think ireland deserve it and the only way they will get it is by beating the top teams in the WC (despite being a different format).
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Old July 11, 2013, 12:02 AM
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incidentally ireland have won the icc intercontinental cup 3 out of the 5 years that it's so far been completed and they are leading the table in the one that is currently running.
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  #23  
Old July 11, 2013, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
incidentally ireland have won the icc intercontinental cup 3 out of the 5 years that it's so far been completed and they are leading the table in the one that is currently running.
Ireland becomes first of the four qualifiers for the ICC Cricket World Cup 2015, to be staged in Australia and New Zealand

http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2013...ulates-ireland
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  #24  
Old July 11, 2013, 12:31 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsayeed
Ireland becomes first of the four qualifiers for the ICC Cricket World Cup 2015, to be staged in Australia and New Zealand

http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2013...ulates-ireland
yeah they got through the the one-day competition but the longer version is still on-going. they're currently leading this version of the FC tournament, if they win then they've won 4 out of the 6 times it's been run.
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  #25  
Old July 11, 2013, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
incidentally ireland have won the icc intercontinental cup 3 out of the 5 years that it's so far been completed and they are leading the table in the one that is currently running.
To be fair 3 out of 5 is not that impressive given the strenghts of the opposition they play. Granted, they can get pushed by Afghanistan so if thats the 2 thats missing then its totally fine. But when you compete with Namibia and Scotland you should be winning 5 times out of 5 to make a case for Test status.

That being said, I fully support Ireland's Test bid and Afghanistan's by 2020 as well. If Pakistan can play all matches away, so too can the Afghans.

Scotland will probably take the 2nd auto spot for WC15. That leaves Afghanistan, and Netherlands to take the final two spots via the WC Qualifying tournament in NZ. Only Canada and Kenya offer resistance there, and neither of them is good enough. Nepal has qualified for the qualifier, I believe its their first time ever. Definitely rooting for Afghanistan and Nepal since they're from our neighborhood. Don't care about any of the other teams after those two, until the US starts to qualify.

Kee bolen Razab bhai...all these great players in the Bay Area leagues and US can't even qualify for the WC Qualifiers ever??? What is that about?
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