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  #26  
Old November 5, 2013, 03:19 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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One question, are the current players (pick any country) are as civil as past players?

That may answer one of the reasons (please noete there may not be just one reason, but mutiple reasons).... "the time"
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  #27  
Old November 5, 2013, 03:37 PM
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ma_o_mati ma_o_mati is offline
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Chor, baatpar ar tout lokjon diya desh vora. Taile kivabe expect kora jai valo kisu. Desh ta jotodin na system er moddhe ashbe totodin evabei cholbe. So the OP shoudlnt be so shocked at our attitude toward the opposition. Are we the most uncivil people in the world? I would not to think so. I have come accross handful of decent Bangladeshis. But are we much less civilized than our western counterparts. I guess you know the answer to that.

Ps: I didnt find anything elitist or of that nature in MHRAM posts.
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  #28  
Old November 5, 2013, 04:16 PM
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The politics of our country is a deadly poison. i dream of a Bangladesh when both Awami League and BNP will be banned. When people will be able to be ministers because of their moral integrity. Everyone will be accountable for their wrongdoings. That seems near impossible now. But I can honestly say right now my country sucks. The state of the country atm embarasses me and few of the muktijoddhas i have come accross. This is not why they fought in the war.
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  #29  
Old November 5, 2013, 05:14 PM
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ahnaf ahnaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_o_mati
I agree with most of what Mhram is saying. We definitely lack in courtesy and manner. I dont see whats the harm in admitting it. Come on now, how many Bangladeshis uses phrases like excuse me, thank youor sorry. It has to do with culture and economic factors. We cant expect third world country people to act like first world. But we should recognize the truth at least.
just because people dont say sorry or execuse me,doesnt mean we lack courtesy.. People are not used to say or hear those words.. Thats it.. That has nothing to do with first world or third world.. And our people may not say sorry or execuse me,but they can do lots of things for other people what you wont find in your beloved first world..
About booing our own player? Lol.. I see almost every now and then football players are getting booed by their own first world club/country supporter.. They must be poor or lack courtesy or uncivilized.. Oh,wait, hows that possible? They are first world country citizen afterall..

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Last edited by ahnaf; November 6, 2013 at 01:05 AM..
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  #30  
Old November 5, 2013, 05:19 PM
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Good discussion, this. It's about time.
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  #31  
Old November 5, 2013, 05:53 PM
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mufi_02 mufi_02 is offline
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I don't think education always correlates with higher civility and better etiquette. I have seen many highly educated Bengalis who are very obnoxious. They think they are better than everyone else and always have a condescending tone. Meanwhile I have traveled in the villages where people are much more hospitable.

One time I was in Dubai airport for a long transit. I wanted to use pay-phone to call my family. So I saw a Bangladeshi guy who was working as the janitor. He had a phone card and let me use it. I talked for 2 minutes and asks him koto hoise bhai. Bole ki na thak deya lagbe na apnar. Deshi manush apni, dui char minute kotha koilam apnar loge, taka dewa lagbo nah. I was very surprised. So humbleness and courtesy depends on individuals and family upbringings.

That being said, footballs fans in Europe and NFL fans are much more nasty. Try to cheer for the opposition team. They will curse you out and become very hostile. We are more civil in that respect. Cricket is not that idyllic gentleman's game anymore but have changed a lot. So have the fans. But we can do better.
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  #32  
Old November 5, 2013, 06:33 PM
tejkuni tejkuni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
I don't think prosperity has anything to do with manners or etiquettes. I have come across more polite rickshaw pullers and day labourers than so called educated rich kids. MHRAM your elitist attitude is probably due to the education you have received which probably taught you to look down at the poor and blame them for all the ills of the society. You probably didn't have many poor friends or classmates who could have corrected your views. I might be completely wrong, but that's what I get reading your posts. suit.............................................. ...........................
Well said. I was also surprised and sad to see the elitist attitude of MHRAM. Now as far as the cricket culture is concerned, Bangladesh's cricket culture is quite matured. From 1947-71 BD was a part of a Test playing country. Dhaka hosted a number Test matches during that time. As an primary school kid I watched Pak-NZ test in 1970. Turner of NZ was playing his first test. On day one he scored 99. I saw people took flowers on the 2nd day and after he scored century people rushed to congratulate him with flowers (fans were allowed to go inside the field). There are plenty of reports in foreign media about the lively crowd of Dhaka (both before and after 1971). When I have time I will post the links of those reports.
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  #33  
Old November 5, 2013, 06:45 PM
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Mhram said some truth. And I see that BC menbers cant handle the truth. Thats why guyz here trying to label him ad an elitist. Truth hurts i guess. But we are a disaster as a country. Its because of our political leaders.
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  #34  
Old November 5, 2013, 09:47 PM
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i would do the same.... i dont clap for opposition.. f that.... and i will try to make fun of them too if i get the opportunity.... only thing is i will not ever bhua my own team players....

why i gotta give courtesy clap, i am NOt happy u scored a 100 against my team no matter how beutiful it was... f that..

and i have a decent education, i think...

joy bangla, rest of the world suck it!
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  #35  
Old November 5, 2013, 10:01 PM
MHRAM MHRAM is offline
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I can understand why I am being an elitist.

But as far as I know myself I don't look down on the poor. Since this is a cricket forum there is barely any opportunity for you guys to know what I am in my.personal life.

I don't have problem with lower class people watching the game. I think everyone has the right to attend a cricket match. What I disgust is the attitude these spectators have. While its true that its not in our culture to appreciate others, what hurts me is when these guys start swearing at the players, and sometimes the cursing is targeted towards one's family.

I am not directly relating it to education or coming from a good background. I am just making a simple generalization. I never said that higher class and highly educated people are "dhua tulshipata". It's true that I came from that sort of a society and I will be honest to say that there are some who arent any less "Barbaric". One does not have to be born in a rich family or study in an English medium school to be Civil. Most of the people that study in Bangla medium schools are well civilized and I know it because I have had the opportunity to have studied with them at one stage.

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  #36  
Old November 5, 2013, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
i would do the same.... i dont clap for opposition.. f that.... and i will try to make fun of them too if i get the opportunity.... only thing is i will not ever bhua my own team players....

why i gotta give courtesy clap, i am NOt happy u scored a 100 against my team no matter how beutiful it was... f that..

and i have a decent education, i think...

joy bangla, rest of the world suck it!
shetai....mamar barir abdar....amader baash diba aar tumader amra fuller mala porabo..... huuumph....jottoshob
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  #37  
Old November 5, 2013, 10:57 PM
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Have you guys ever watched an NBA game at the stadium or been at the old veterans stadium in Philly watching an Eagles game? Definitely not cricket. ;-)
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  #38  
Old November 5, 2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
i would do the same.... i dont clap for opposition.. f that.... and i will try to make fun of them too if i get the opportunity.... only thing is i will not ever bhua my own team players....

why i gotta give courtesy clap, i am NOt happy u scored a 100 against my team no matter how beutiful it was... f that..

and i have a decent education, i think...

joy bangla, rest of the world suck it!
Spoke my mind
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  #39  
Old November 5, 2013, 11:52 PM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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The self loathing here is really offensive! Had anyone posted in such bigoted and sweeping terms about any other nationality or country, he/she'd have been banned by now. Racist comments about our own people, all 160 million individual souls, should not be tolerated either!
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  #40  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
I am surprised by the self loathing seeping through this thread, though
So being critical of one self is self-loathing?

I also like how a single person can have a God given ex cathedra right to represent a country and take it upon himself to note what constitutes offensive to an entire nation or not. Wow...
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  #41  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:19 AM
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I suppose Americans who burn their own flags to exhibit protest are the ultimate self-loathers too.
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  #42  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
I suppose Americans who burn their own flags to exhibit protest are the ultimate self-loathers too.
No. Traitors. According to the tea-baggers.
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  #43  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:33 AM
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I think this conversation is veering off course. Why are we painting an entire people with one brush? I wanted to discuss the habits of BD cricket match spectators, not get into a discussion about whether Bangladeshis as a whole are uncouth. So perhaps we should try to stay on topic.

The original question was whether BD spectators should be more civil. Since this is a cricket forum, I am referring to spectators at cricket matches. In cricket, it is customary to applaud someone (home team or the opposition) when they reach a milestone such as a 50 or a 100. This is not football or basketball, where showing respect to an opponent is not customary.

When Tamim got his century at Lords, the English applauded this achievement. Are some of you suggesting that that gesture was totally unnecessary? That the spectators should just have ignored it? Are you suggesting that the English were too generous in their appreciation of Tamim's achievement?

Perhaps some of you believe that not applauding the opponent or jeering the home team is a legitimate evolution of fan culture in cricket. Personally, I find that disheartening, but perhaps I'm clinging on to an outdated notion of what cricket is about.
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  #44  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:35 AM
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Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
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I tell you the jeering is not enough. "Bhua, bhua" won't cut it, after all, how will the foreign players understand what is being said? They might even confuse it for appreciation. The fans need to come up with some meaner insults, and insults which can be understood by the opposition.

I used to watch wwf as a kid. A good old Kurt Angle style "you suck" is a good place to start.


And any sponsors of institutional education is elitist to me, sorry.
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  #45  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I tell you the jeering is not enough. "Bhua, bhua" won't cut it, after all, how will the foreign players understand what is being said? They might even confused it for appreciation. The fans need to come up with some meaner insults, and insults which can be understood by the opposition.

I used to watch wwf as a kid. A good old Kurt Angle style "you suck" is a good place to start.


And any sponsors of institutional education is elitist to me, sorry.
hahaha, we need Kurt's entrance theme for that!
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  #46  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
and i have a decent education, i think...
haha, made me chuckle with "i think" part
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  #47  
Old November 6, 2013, 12:58 AM
MHRAM MHRAM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
i would do the same.... i dont clap for opposition.. f that.... and i will try to make fun of them too if i get the opportunity.... only thing is i will not ever bhua my own team players....

why i gotta give courtesy clap, i am NOt happy u scored a 100 against my team no matter how beutiful it was... f that..

and i have a decent education, i think...

joy bangla, rest of the world suck it!
Lol at the "I think" part

Is there a particular reason for calling self iDumb?

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  #48  
Old November 6, 2013, 01:11 AM
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As Mod-
Let me emphasize that the thread OP intends to discuss the crowd behavior in the stadiums and NOT us as a race/nation etc.

Let me also remind you all about the forum rules, particularly the one below:
"Do not post anything hateful, demeaning, or discriminatory towards any country, nationality, race, ethnicity, religion and gender. We have zero tolerance for all kinds of prejudice and bigotry."

while thoughtful self criticism is welcome please do not make sweeping generalizations that other members may find offensive.

thank you
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  #49  
Old November 6, 2013, 01:33 AM
imtiaz82 imtiaz82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_o_mati
I wouldn't go as far as calling it self loathing but just accepting the truth. It has nothing to institutional education. Lot of our educated folks lack severely when it comes to manner and courtesy. Years of being subjugated and poverty, our behavior is reflected by our rough nature. When a system of an entire country is broken from up to bottom, you can't expect proper sportsmanship from the crowd. When our country changes, everything else will too.
I tend to agree with your observation. General courtesy and manner has a direct correlation with the economic well being of a nation when it comes to cricket ( in soccer or american football, the economic standing does not really matter; everybody hates oppostion0. There are always individual exception to the norm, but if we look at a society level, the above will hold true. Crowds that are most appreciative of the opponent are in developed nations like Australia, England or New Zealand. Spectators in countries like India, Srilanka or Bangladesh seem be less appreciative.

Day to day life is extremely hard for average Bangladeshi folk, traffic jam for hours, political unrest, red tape in any government institution (WASA, DESA or T&T) and corrupt police. Even the cricket team is unreliable and have a long history of failure and defeat, the momentary sense of happiness comes from those rare wins. So encouraging opposition does not come naturally.

In fact we find the same trend in general day to day interaction with people across the world:

Developed Nations- Japanese, Canadian, European- on average people are very friendly in the streets. From holding the door to mentioning thanks and welcome...[ of course they have rude people as well, but talking about general trend]

Middle Income Country- People in Turkey and Malaysia are courteous but not to the level of Japanese or Canadian. [again there are exceptions, some Malaysians could be much nicer than above nations]

Lower Income nation- Bangladesh, India. People in the streets in general are indifferent and are busy with their own life. They do have the tendency to be overly nice to people with European decent, but not sure what factors into that.
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  #50  
Old November 6, 2013, 01:43 AM
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The 1st premise: cricket watching is different from watching other sports. It is traditionally expected from cricket fans that they will appreciate good play from an opponent as well as their own side.

The 2nd premise: Our Tiger fans lack, in comparison to other country's _cricket_ fan, the sense of good spectator behavior

The question: Whither #2?

Theories offered by respondents to this thread:
1) Why should cricket viewing be different from other sports? Deal with the boorishness - tis the sign of a passionate fan
2) Bangladeshi spectators lack cricketing sophistication (owing to our nascent history, as a country and as a Test-cricketing nation). It will come
3) Bangladesh is full of uncouth people - as reflected in its politics and other affairs - and its cricket fans reflect merely the rest of the country
4) More "uneducated" or "low-class fans attend cricket matches these days
5) Those suggesting #2, #3 and #4 suffer from more self-loathing than Raoul Duke and Dr. Gonzo combined! Not really a reason but ...

My take (as a fan).
I don't fully sagree with premise #1. While true of English fans (in the olden days), I do not believe cricket spectators in other countries are greatly more civil. Aussies are definitely are not and there has been much bellyaching in Torey rags such as Telegraph about how English fans now do Mexican waves and shout slogans such as "Where's your caravan" (to the gypsie looking Gillespie). There _is_ an element of showing appreciation of opponent play but it tends to vary.

I do agree with premise #2. I disagree with premise #2. Confused? I have seen, in the VIP gallery mind you, dads egging their kids to call players names. But I have also seen, in the general gallery, sporting banter and play between opponent players and the fans and some appreciation of good play.

I think reasons #2 and #3 are at play here. Those who go watch cricket regularly pick up on the good behavior and will be "civil" fans. Newbies not so much. It has very little to do with education or upbringing. There are civil tokais and uncouth bankers.
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