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  #1  
Old August 29, 2014, 10:31 AM
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Default Coaching in the nets

Never been to any cricket coaching camp. Never saw any coaching sessions. So help me out here a bit.

Do any of the coaches create game day situations in practice? What actually happens in the nets?

From the TV most of the time I see them cricket players, playing football.
+++
I'll give you my opinion on how cricket practice session needs to modernize.

The net practice we have didn't improve our team a bit. That means IT IS NOT WORKING. This needs to be fixed.

Any coach can chime in if they want.
+++
The only innovative idea I saw was from Jamie Siddons bringing in marble slab to simulate Australian pitch bounce. But that is not game day situation. It is just creating the same environment.
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  #2  
Old August 29, 2014, 10:48 AM
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India (foriegn condition) and Bangladesh (all conditions) preparing for match situation. kick in the rear

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  #3  
Old August 29, 2014, 12:37 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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This is what Jamie had to say about the NZ batsmen, after the second Bangla wash:

"I hear a lot of people say it's mental problems with the players, but everyone's trying. These guys don't get out because of mental mistakes, it's the skill levels. It's hard work on the road. Those guys will come back here and it's flat and it's not swinging and it's not spinning and they'll be okay. But as soon as you go away and you're under pressure again against something you haven't practised against, then you'll have problems."
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  #4  
Old September 2, 2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
India (foriegn condition) and Bangladesh (all conditions) preparing for match situation. kick in the rear



atleast they turned around in ODI series for us no preparation works. I am just curious how it worked before for just few months, though it was short lived and did not sustain. Probably our genes. Shaad and other Wise men/women of BC used to give some highlights if it was related genetic perspective, but I believe they won't waste their valuable time anymore explaining our shuperstars performances. I guess everybody has no more reasoning and logic describing how will be the training sessions conducted, which method will work for them and why it is not working. I still think it's the system, infrastructure and governing body itself where the original problems lie and they never addressed it in the core level of the board and management who runs the cricket in BD.
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Old September 4, 2014, 08:59 AM
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In Soccer, they practice corner kicks over and over again. Real life situation. Same with free kicks from different sides.

In Basketball, Post play, screen and role, cuts all are done over and over again until it is perfected. 3 point shooting. free throws etc.

In Football, teaching how to read defense from films and countering that in the playing field in practice, linemen blocking and making holes for the running backs, wide receivers, tightends, all practicing to that certain plays can give them the edge the want.

In Cricket, at the nets bowlers bowling to a particular spot (white circle) is also done to get their line and length corrected.

My question is:

Why can't we have 15-20 fielders with Tamim and Co. batting in practice on a regular field instead of nets surrounding them? Game time situation with a degree of difficulty! That way when they get out in practice sessions these batsmen see what they are doing wrong. In the nets when they play a uppish shot, they think that went for 4 or 6. In reality they would just get out because they can't visualize fielders there to take the catch. There was a time when Ashraful got out, he would say that was a 4 ball. Same attitude on these superstar we have. Confidence level super ceded to arrogance level. "Vettori ordinary bowler."

These batsmen are practicing in the nets for ages and no improvement can be seen. So definitely the practice method is wrong. Needs to be modified to create game time situation.

May give them instructions on 10 overs remaining 70 runs needed with 3 wicket in hand. Can you do it? Or 57/4 now you have just walked in. Things like that. Live international matches are not a place you learn these things. May be in domestic cricket but we all know how little domestic cricket our boys play to learn from that.
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  #6  
Old September 4, 2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye

In Cricket, at the nets bowlers bowling to a particular spot (white circle) is also done to get their line and length corrected.

My question is:

Why can't we have 15-20 fielders with Tamim and Co. batting in practice on a regular field instead of nets surrounding them? Game time situation with a degree of difficulty! That way when they get out in practice sessions these batsmen see what they are doing wrong. In the nets when they play a uppish shot, they think that went for 4 or 6. In reality they would just get out because they can't visualize fielders there to take the catch. There was a time when Ashraful got out, he would say that was a 4 ball.

These batsmen are practicing in the nets for ages and no improvement can be seen. So definitely the practice method is wrong. Needs to be modified to create game time situation.

May give them instructions on 10 overs remaining 70 runs needed with 3 wicket in hand. Can you do it? Or 57/4 now you have just walked in. Things like that. Live international matches are not a place you learn these things. May be in domestic cricket but we all know how little domestic cricket our boys play to learn from that.
completely agree with Mijan bhai here...even para moholla cricketer knows this issue that if we don't simulate the same environment during practice in real game we will fail, not too sure how a professional sports team and its management do not get it. Can't blame just the players and coaching staff, the main board is not doing anything to make the domestic league better and no strategy change at all in infrastructure level since it's not been working for over 10 years. Ak akjon MBA koira manager hoiya boisa ase chair re ar biriyani kai khali.
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  #7  
Old September 4, 2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
In Soccer, they practice corner kicks over and over again. Real life situation. Same with free kicks from different sides.

In Basketball, Post play, screen and role, cuts all are done over and over again until it is perfected. 3 point shooting. free throws etc.

In Football, teaching how to read defense from films and countering that in the playing field in practice, linemen blocking and making holes for the running backs, wide receivers, tightends, all practicing to that certain plays can give them the edge the want.

In Cricket, at the nets bowlers bowling to a particular spot (white circle) is also done to get their line and length corrected.

My question is:

Why can't we have 15-20 fielders with Tamim and Co. batting in practice on a regular field instead of nets surrounding them? Game time situation with a degree of difficulty! That way when they get out in practice sessions these batsmen see what they are doing wrong. In the nets when they play a uppish shot, they think that went for 4 or 6. In reality they would just get out because they can't visualize fielders there to take the catch. There was a time when Ashraful got out, he would say that was a 4 ball. Same attitude on these superstar we have. Confidence level super ceded to arrogance level. "Vettori ordinary bowler."

These batsmen are practicing in the nets for ages and no improvement can be seen. So definitely the practice method is wrong. Needs to be modified to create game time situation.

May give them instructions on 10 overs remaining 70 runs needed with 3 wicket in hand. Can you do it? Or 57/4 now you have just walked in. Things like that. Live international matches are not a place you learn these things. May be in domestic cricket but we all know how little domestic cricket our boys play to learn from that.
I think they do simulate real game situations in practice. I remember Ian Pont talking about it when he was coaching the team.

Practice is obviously important but it's pointless when you can't apply it to the real game. I think the real problem is before the national team where they mostly learn on the U19 level but in between that the domestic structure is so farcical that these players don't get the quality practice that the G8 teams do. National team camps are just not enough in order to get ready for international tours against G8 teams.

Again that's why I pointed to the BPL as one of our reasons for our horrific year. Our players were getting much more quality practice in these games and they used that well for international games. Now there are too many gaps again in our schedule with our players just playing NCL/BCL and DPL which again is why we went back to where we once were
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  #8  
Old September 4, 2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
My question is:

Why can't we have 15-20 fielders with Tamim and Co. batting in practice on a regular field instead of nets surrounding them? Game time situation with a degree of difficulty! That way when they get out in practice sessions these batsmen see what they are doing wrong. In the nets when they play a uppish shot, they think that went for 4 or 6. In reality they would just get out because they can't visualize fielders there to take the catch. There was a time when Ashraful got out, he would say that was a 4 ball. Same attitude on these superstar we have. Confidence level super ceded to arrogance level. "Vettori ordinary bowler."
Because logistically it is not possible. Normally, you will have 3-4 nets and have regular + net bowlers + machine, constantly bowling at batsmen. The batsmen keeps batting like this for 30 mins to an hour. Now imagine playing this in real pitch and the ball will fly everywhere, the fielders needs to get it back, then regroup and next bowler comes in, it will take a lot of time. And the whole process is only possible for one batsmen at a time.

Also, where would you find that many fielders? In 3 nets you can have at least 6 main bowlers and 3 batsmen for an hour. If you make them field then they wont have energy to bat and ball. Net practice isn't the place for uppish shots. It's more about getting into the line of the ball and then blocking, nudging or driving it.

So there is no substitute for net practice. For real match scenarios, coaches arrange practice matches and divide squad into red/green teams. That's why competitive domestic matches and BPL (as tiger444 mentioned) is very crucial.
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  #9  
Old September 4, 2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
Because logistically it is not possible. Normally, you will have 3-4 nets and have regular + net bowlers + machine, constantly bowling at batsmen. The batsmen keeps batting like this for 30 mins to an hour. Now imagine playing this in real pitch and the ball will fly everywhere, the fielders needs to get it back, then regroup and next bowler comes in, it will take a lot of time. And the whole process is only possible for one batsmen at a time.

Also, where would you find that many fielders? In 3 nets you can have at least 6 main bowlers and 3 batsmen for an hour. If you make them field then they wont have energy to bat and ball. Net practice isn't the place for uppish shots. It's more about getting into the line of the ball and then blocking, nudging or driving it.

So there is no substitute for net practice. For real match scenarios, coaches arrange practice matches and divide squad into red/green teams. That's why competitive domestic matches and BPL (as tiger444 mentioned) is very crucial.
If there is a will there is a way. Duplicating game time situation in practice sessions is a MUST for these young pups to regain confidence and go out there and perform in real match.

There are several ways to skin a cat if you really want to do it.

Why call up only 15? call up 20? Bring in Academy players. If nothing else bring in 10 tokais and spread them around. Line up 6 bowlers ready to go with 6 balls. If necessary use tennis balls and no pads.

Instead of having the nets at one corner of the field, bring it in in the middle. Separate two pitches with a net in the middle. Let two batsmen work on leg side or offside. As for bowlers, having academy bowlers, U-19 bowlers in the practice is nothing wrong. Let them bowl two yards inside the pitch so that the speed is duplicated.

My argument is the current method is NOT WORKING. No reason to continue ONLY in this way. This doesn't make sense at any profession especially in Sports. One must create game time situation during the practice. That is how you slow down the game live. You are not at awe. You know you have done this in practice. You can do this in real game.

International matches have too many things riding on. One can not just try to gain experience in the biggest stage. Our players do not play enough domestic games. And even on that the standard is very low.
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  #10  
Old September 4, 2014, 01:01 PM
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Batting practice should NOT be just facing the bowlers, hitting balls and screaming 4 or 6 (which is actually an "out" by the way). It needs to be running between the wickets as well. Ball watching did cost us a wicket in the last match. No?
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  #11  
Old September 4, 2014, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
In Soccer, they practice corner kicks over and over again. Real life situation. Same with free kicks from different sides.

In Basketball, Post play, screen and role, cuts all are done over and over again until it is perfected. 3 point shooting. free throws etc.

In Football, teaching how to read defense from films and countering that in the playing field in practice, linemen blocking and making holes for the running backs, wide receivers, tightends, all practicing to that certain plays can give them the edge the want.

In Cricket, at the nets bowlers bowling to a particular spot (white circle) is also done to get their line and length corrected.

My question is:

Why can't we have 15-20 fielders with Tamim and Co. batting in practice on a regular field instead of nets surrounding them? Game time situation with a degree of difficulty! That way when they get out in practice sessions these batsmen see what they are doing wrong. In the nets when they play a uppish shot, they think that went for 4 or 6. In reality they would just get out because they can't visualize fielders there to take the catch. There was a time when Ashraful got out, he would say that was a 4 ball. Same attitude on these superstar we have. Confidence level super ceded to arrogance level. "Vettori ordinary bowler."

These batsmen are practicing in the nets for ages and no improvement can be seen. So definitely the practice method is wrong. Needs to be modified to create game time situation.

May give them instructions on 10 overs remaining 70 runs needed with 3 wicket in hand. Can you do it? Or 57/4 now you have just walked in. Things like that. Live international matches are not a place you learn these things. May be in domestic cricket but we all know how little domestic cricket our boys play to learn from that.
Our team uses standard practice and training. Its working for other teams. Training method isn't the problem. Problem is we lack depth which means limited players like Imrul, Shamsur keep getting picked without any real improvement to warrant it. No depth at fast bowler either.

Second problem is Mushfiq's timid captaincy. 7-8 wins have been thrown away in what can only be described as legal match-fixing. Of course we'd probably have still lost a few of those games, but 4-5 wins were a necessity.

All this means we're not as bad as we make ourselves out to be or seem to be when you say 0-12. We could have easily been 6-6 without any real improvement. At the same time if there is no sign of change 0-12 will quickly become 0-50.

Hope Mushfiq loses his captaincy and the gloves. Hope he marries a demanding girl and is forced to give up the captaincy.
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  #12  
Old September 4, 2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Our team uses standard practice and training. Its working for other teams. Training method isn't the problem......
You out of everyone is saying this? Go watch a highschool Football practice. Heck any practice associated with American sports. The goal for practice is to make the players duplicate game time situations. So that they are comfortable and can execute plays.

U think Usain Bolt doesn't run 200 meters in practice?

Just because other teams practices in an ancient method doesn't mean we can't change it. Those method may work them because of their superior skillsets they possess. More over other teams are not getting this mega collapse every other game. Other team players came up through a domestic cricket structure which teaches certain things that our boys lack.

Training method is a super major problem because of our weak domestic structure.
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Old September 4, 2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
You out of everyone is saying this? Go watch a highschool Football practice. Heck any practice associated with American sports. The goal for practice is to make the players duplicate game time situations. So that they are comfortable and can execute plays.

U think Usain Bolt doesn't run 200 meters in practice?

Just because other teams practices in an ancient method doesn't mean we can't change it. Those method may work them because of their superior skillsets they possess. More over other teams are not getting this mega collapse every other game. Other team players came up through a domestic cricket structure which teaches certain things that our boys lack.

Training method is a super major problem because of our weak domestic structure.
If we could emulate all the positives of American institutions, hoisilo kaaj.

Superior skill set doesn't mean you don't need to practice the proper way. MJ practiced as hard as if not harder than Pete Meyers. If SA, India practices that way, we should follow that. Training method isnt the reason we suck. We suck simply because we suck. Period.

Here is our core squad (all formats).

Mushfiq - good work ethic, best batsman on team
Shakib - rarest anomaly, poor work ethic but best player on team, think AI, Randy Moss
Tamim - works when his *** is under fire...patchy success
Nasir - don't know about his ethic, but I believe he is on the right track
Mominul - great ethic, 75 average, nuff said
Mashrafee - great dedication, best pacer after 13 years and 7 surgeries
Razzak - lazy and doesn't even want to play

Clear pattern that those who work hard and take their games seriously are the best performers. Shahadat fell off the horse not do poor training regimen but due to lazy arrogance. Indiscipline is key.

Underlying problem is BCB's continued underdevelopment of cricket and miss prioritization. World cup coming up and they are planning on how to steal money via BPL 3.

On top of that you have on field blunders of Mushfiq. 5'3 keeper just won't do like expecting a 5-7 corner to cover a 6-4 wide out down field. Captaincy decision is also poor and reflects timidity, not lack of game situation practice. How much simulation do you need to set a field for 34-5 or 67-8? How much simulation does a QB need to realize that you need to throw on 3rd and long? Mushy decides to go with a running play. Self-Defeatism is the issue not lack of situational skill or awareness.
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  #14  
Old September 4, 2014, 03:29 PM
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TE bhai, you can't compare American sports with cricket. They are vastly different and thus the methods of one will not translate into another. You can have basketball, football, soccer practice matches very easily to replicate real match scenario. Usain Bolt needs 30 secs max to run 200m. But cricket has a lot of other external factors and situations. As you suggested, you can't have U19 bowlers and tokais as fielders, tennis ball and no pads to replicate the intensity of real matches. They don't even come close. Hitting tennis ball with no equipment will only create false sense of security.

The net bowlers do include U-19 and age cricketers for most teams. That's how SL found Akila Dananjaya. There is no substitute for net practice yet. I get your desire to create real match scenarios. That's why they regularly divide squad and play exhibition matches sometimes even back to back for T20.

Net practice is not for learning to play according to situation. It is to create the habit of doing the right thing. For bowlers it is to bowl at right areas for hours and hours, for batsmen to play with proper technique for many balls in a row.
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Old September 4, 2014, 04:39 PM
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Agreed with Mufi. We do have those BD vs BD A matches and BCB red vs BCB green. That's the closest you will get. But they're played on BKSP grounds where even Rock will hit 8 sixes en route to 150 off 125.
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Old September 7, 2014, 08:30 AM
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This world has lost its glory, lets start a brand new story....

Shall we ?
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Old September 7, 2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
TE bhai, you can't compare American sports with cricket. ....

Net practice is not for learning to play according to situation. It is to create the habit of doing the right thing. ....
aj kay Imrul kayes jay out hoilo... He has practiced hours and hours in the net. One of most dedicate practice person in the net. he played a shot that he plays in the nets all the time. Only creating the false sense of hitting the ball for four. Ei stupid net parctice'er ki maney? Ei habit'er amar dorkar nai.

Imrul kayes is just a name. replace with any top order batsmen, the story is the same.
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