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  #1  
Old March 6, 2015, 04:41 PM
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Default স্পিন-স্পিন-স্পিন



ডেভিড লয়েড: আমি তাই মনে করি। যদি বাংলাদেশ টসে জিতে ব্যাটিং নেয় এবং পরে ভালো করে স্পিনারদের লেলিয়ে দেয়, অ্যাডিলেডে বাংলাদেশই ফেবারিট। ইংল্যান্ডকে বড় স্কোর তাড়া করতে হলে অবিশ্বাস্য ব্যাটিং করতে হবে....কারণ এটা হবে স্পিন-স্পিন-স্পিন। আমি হলে তো ইংল্যান্ডের বিপক্ষে শুধু স্পিনারই নিতাম। পেস বোলিং করাতামই না। ইংল্যান্ডের বিপক্ষে যত বেশি স্পিনার নেওয়া যায়, ততই ভালো। অতীতে ইংল্যান্ড কখনোই স্পিন ভালো খেলেনি। না, আমি ইংল্যান্ডকে মোটেই ফেবারিট মনে করি না।


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  #2  
Old March 6, 2015, 04:44 PM
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I hope and pray that team MGT does the right selection against England ^^^
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  #3  
Old March 6, 2015, 04:49 PM
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His tone sounds like a trap. "আমি হলে তো ইংল্যান্ডের বিপক্ষে শুধু স্পিনারই নিতাম। পেস বোলিং করাতামই না।"

And what is লেলিয়ে দেয়,. I doubt David Lloyd used the exact word "leliye deya". Egula ki gori chagol naki je leliye dibe?
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  #4  
Old March 6, 2015, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
His tone sounds like a trap. "আমি হলে তো ইংল্যান্ডের বিপক্ষে শুধু স্পিনারই নিতাম। পেস বোলিং করাতামই না।"

And what is লেলিয়ে দেয়,. I doubt David Lloyd used the exact word "leliye deya". Egula ki gori chagol naki je leliye dibe?
Uthpol Shuvro for you.

KP da,
I posted the same article in the article thread few minutes back. HHS.
১৯৯৯ বিশ্বকাপে তো আপনি ইংল্যান্ডের কোচ ছিলেন। মনে আছে, বিশ্বকাপের অফিশিয়াল অ্যানথেম যখন বাজারে এল, আয়োজক ইংল্যান্ড বিশ্বকাপেই নেই। ওয়ানডেতে ইংল্যান্ড পারে না কেন?
ডেভিড লয়েড: আমার তো মনে হয় আধুনিক ওয়ানডে খেলাটা খেলতে পারে, এমন খেলোয়াড়ই আমাদের নেই। অন্য দলগুলোকে দেখেন, ওরা বল ছাড়ে না। ওয়ানডেতে তো বল ছাড়ার জিনিস না, মারার জিনিস। বাইরের বল হলে ছেড়ে দেব কেন, আরও জোরে মারব। অন্য দলগুলো তো তা-ই করে। অন্যদের দেখেও ওরা শেখেনি। ডেভিড ওয়ার্নার, অ্যারন ফিঞ্চ, ডি কক, ম্যাককালাম...আপনাদ র তামিম ইকবালও তো দারুণ মারে। ঝুঁকি নেওয়া, ভয়ডরহীন মুক্ত মনে খেলার বার্তা এখনো ইংল্যান্ডের কাছে পৌঁছেনি। আমরা ব্যাটিং করার সময় তিন শ করা নিয়ে অনেক ট্যাকটিক্যাল হাতি-ঘোড়া মারি। যেখানে অন্য দলগুলো ৩৪০-৩৫০ এমনকি এখন চার শরও চিন্তা করে। আমরা আসলে এটা মাথায়ই নিতে পারিনি। এটা বলার পরও অবশ্য বিতর্ক থাকবে, বুঝলেও এটা করার মতো খেলোয়াড় আমাদের আছে কি না। ইংল্যান্ডের বোলিংয়ের দিকেও যদি তাকান, চারজন সিম বোলার প্রায় একই রকম। স্পিনারও তেমন নেই। ওই মঈন আলী যা একটু স্পিন করতে পারে। ইংল্যান্ডের বোলিং আক্রমণ তাই খুবই অনুমেয়। ভালো দলগুলোতে অনেক বৈচিত্র্য, পেসারদের মধ্যে, স্পিনারদের মধ্যে। ওদের ফাস্ট বোলাররা খুব জোরে বল করতে পারে, ভালো বাউন্সার দিতে পারে।
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  #5  
Old March 6, 2015, 05:05 PM
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I'm assuming he said "unleashed"?
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  #6  
Old March 6, 2015, 10:36 PM
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That's how I feel it too. Keep the same batting line up and get both lefty spinners in place of Anamul and Rubel. If Mash can't go, then get Shafiul in.
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  #7  
Old March 6, 2015, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
His tone sounds like a trap. "আমি হলে তো ইংল্যান্ডের বিপক্ষে শুধু স্পিনারই নিতাম। পেস বোলিং করাতামই না।"

And what is লেলিয়ে দেয়,. I doubt David Lloyd used the exact word "leliye deya". Egula ki gori chagol naki je leliye dibe?
Exactly...they haven't struggled against spin at all except a few overs against Vettori. Vettori ended up with only 1 wicket against them while Southee took 7. Only 4 out of their 34 wickets fell to spinners.
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Old March 6, 2015, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
Exactly...they haven't struggled against spin at all except a few overs against Vettori. Vettori ended up with only 1 wicket against them while Southee took 7. Only 4 out of their 34 wickets fell to spinners.
We have no Southee in our team mate! And, Southee himself said he might never produce another spell of bowling like that in his lifetime.

The way our pacers bowled against Scotland, he they bowls like that against England, we would have no chance to win that match IMO.

I would select both Sunny and Taijul against England and New Zealand.
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  #9  
Old March 6, 2015, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpurush
We have no Southee in our team mate! And, Southee himself said he might never produce another spell of bowling like that in his lifetime.

The way our pacers bowled against Scotland, he they bowls like that against England, we would have no chance to win that match IMO.

I would select both Sunny and Taijul against England and New Zealand.
Australia's Mitchell Marsh and even Scotland's Davey took 5 and 4 wickets against them respectively. They bowl medium pace. This group of English players play spin much better than their predecessors. Moeen Ali played several big innings against SL in SL. Results speak for itself--4 out of 34 wickets to spinners and contrary to popular belief they haven't even struggled against spin in this WC. I think he'll destroy our spinners on that wicket, except Shak.
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Old March 6, 2015, 11:21 PM
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What will work in my opinion is a combination of pace, spin, medium pace, slow medium pace. I wish Mash had bowled Soumya more to give him more practice and confidence...Soumya and Nasir being thrown into the mix will be very effective. Bowlers need to be rotated frequently unless one or two bowlers happen to dominate them, which I don't see happening.

There's only one match that's been played on that surface, Ind - Pak. Spinners didn't do too well in that match either. These drop in pitches are just not conducive to spin. Only positive is spinners take the pace off the ball, but accurate medium/slow medium bowling is more effective on these pitches. I can't believe I'm saying this but Ziaur would've been a good selection for this match.
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Old March 6, 2015, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman

There's only one match that's been played on that surface, Ind - Pak. Spinners didn't do too well in that match either. These drop in pitches are just not conducive to spin. Only positive is spinners take the pace off the ball, but accurate medium/slow medium bowling is more effective on these pitches. I can't believe I'm saying this but Ziaur would've been a good selection for this match.
I think so too. Zia could have been handy...
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  #12  
Old March 7, 2015, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
His tone sounds like a trap. "আমি হলে তো ইংল্যান্ডের বিপক্ষে শুধু স্পিনারই নিতাম। পেস বোলিং করাতামই না।"

And what is লেলিয়ে দেয়,. I doubt David Lloyd used the exact word "leliye deya". Egula ki gori chagol naki je leliye dibe?
কি বলেন, আমার কাছেতো "লেলিয়ে দেয়" কথাটা দারুন লাগছে। কুত্তা যেভাবে আঠারমত পিছে লেগে থাকে, তাড়ানোর সময়, স্পিনারদের জন্য ওটা পারফেক্ট মনোভাব। আক্রমনাত্মক মনোভাব প্রকাশ করে।

সাকিব, রিয়াদ এবং তাজুল স্পিনার হিসাবে যথেষ্ট। মাশরাফি, তাসকিন এবং শফিউল পেস। নাসির, সাব্বির অতিরিক্ত অপশন। আমাদের ক্যাপ্টন তো সপ্নের বোলিং অপশন নিয়ে মাঠে নামবে।
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  #13  
Old March 7, 2015, 07:09 AM
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Missing Bangler HULK badly... he would be perfect n replacing Rubel
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  #14  
Old March 7, 2015, 10:35 AM
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Pacers almost cost us the game against SCOT. Our world class pace battery managed a huge 1 wicket haul against SL. If we could have played 2 spinners against SL instead of pacers, the margin of defeat could have a lot less, resulting better run rate! Against SCOT, our part time spinners did a whole lot better that full time pacers.

I simply don't see any advantage of Rubel and Taskin over Sunny and Taijul.
If we have both Sunny and Taijul, most like ENG can be tied down within 250, even if they have most wickets in hand.

Against ENG, attack will be the best defense and best offense. Play with our strength, play with what will work. Play with spin. Hopefully we don't to have to remind the coach and captain that, if you win the toss, you bat first.

I am waiting for the day when we will get some decent smart people in team management.
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Old March 7, 2015, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
Exactly...they haven't struggled against spin at all except a few overs against Vettori. Vettori ended up with only 1 wicket against them while Southee took 7. Only 4 out of their 34 wickets fell to spinners.
and you are absolutely wrong in this. They struggled to score against Herath and Dilshan, they were terrible against Yasir Shah in the practice match. Vettori didnt even get a chance to run through them thanks to Southee and Boult finished it nice and early. That leaves us with Australia, a team with no spin attack and Scotland... the Shak-Taijul-Sunny combo is better than all the teams mentioned above and on a slower pitch, they will be very economical and grab a handful. Spinners are doing pretty well in this WC considering the conditions. Ashwin, Tahir, Vettori, Herath are all doing very well. Its us that are acting like our spinners cant perform unless they are playing on minefields. Truth is they can still perform better than our seamers at seaming conditions 9 out of 10 times
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Old March 7, 2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
Pacers almost cost us the game against SCOT. Our world class pace battery managed a huge 1 wicket haul against SL. If we could have played 2 spinners against SL instead of pacers, the margin of defeat could have a lot less, resulting better run rate! Against SCOT, our part time spinners did a whole lot better that full time pacers.

I simply don't see any advantage of Rubel and Taskin over Sunny and Taijul.
If we have both Sunny and Taijul, most like ENG can be tied down within 250, even if they have most wickets in hand.

Against ENG, attack will be the best defense and best offense. Play with our strength, play with what will work. Play with spin. Hopefully we don't to have to remind the coach and captain that, if you win the toss, you bat first.

I am waiting for the day when we will get some decent smart people in team management.
Fully agree, our left arm spinners cant do any worse than our pacers even on Australian wickets. A Taijul instead of Rubel should be looked at in this game, I think he has something different about him with his high action and loopy ball, not the conventional darter spinner that we usually find here
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Old March 7, 2015, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinathq
... Spinners are doing pretty well in this WC considering the conditions. Ashwin, Tahir, Vettori, Herath are all doing very well. Its us that are acting like our spinners cant perform unless they are playing on minefields. Truth is they can still perform better than our seamers at seaming conditions 9 out of 10 times
not really: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/843815.html
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  #18  
Old March 7, 2015, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fush_montor
not really: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/843815.html
yes really... these are the only quality spinners that are playing in the WC and they have been successful.
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Old March 7, 2015, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinathq
and you are absolutely wrong in this. They struggled to score against Herath and Dilshan, they were terrible against Yasir Shah in the practice match. Vettori didnt even get a chance to run through them thanks to Southee and Boult finished it nice and early. That leaves us with Australia, a team with no spin attack and Scotland... the Shak-Taijul-Sunny combo is better than all the teams mentioned above and on a slower pitch, they will be very economical and grab a handful. Spinners are doing pretty well in this WC considering the conditions. Ashwin, Tahir, Vettori, Herath are all doing very well. Its us that are acting like our spinners cant perform unless they are playing on minefields. Truth is they can still perform better than our seamers at seaming conditions 9 out of 10 times
My assessment is correct and the stats bear it out. 8 overs from Dilshan for 1/35, 6 from Herath for 1/35, 7 from Vettori for 1/19 were economical in the middle overs, but not exactly innings wrecking or mind blowing by any means. If that wasn't the case a team like SL wouldn't have bowled only 14 overs of spin out of 50 against them. Not letting Dilshan or Herath bowl their quota tells us what we need to know. And I'm not talking warm up matches here I'm talking about actual world cup matches.

In this WC trend for batting sides has been to slow it down in the middle overs and prepare for a late innings burst because they know they can score at least 100 against pace and 150 against spin in the last 10 overs. That's where Marsh's 5/33 for Aus and SL's Mathews 1/43 earlier in the innings and Davey's 4/68 for Sco later in the innings were valuable.
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Old March 7, 2015, 11:51 AM
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Other problem is we don't know anything about Shak-Taijul-Sunny combo in these conditions, we only know about Shak. Ashwin, Tahir, Vettori, Herath are proven performers in all conditions like Shak. If we had tested out Taijul and Sunny in earlier WC matches and they succeeded, it would've been different. If Taijul is really as good as advertised, then including him is not a bad idea, but we don't need any more since we already have Shak, Mahmudullah, Shabbir. As I said, key will be to mix it up with pace, medium pace, slow medium pace and spin - ideally 20 overs pace, 10 overs medium/slow medium pace, 20 overs spin - and let them not get used to any of them. Bowling 35 overs of monotonous SLA spin where there'll be hardly any assistance from the pitch will be a recipe for disaster.
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Old March 7, 2015, 11:58 AM
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I am with zman here, we should go with a balanced attack. England is no Zimbabwe, in past they handled SLAs pretty well. At most we should take one of the specialist SLAs (my vote goes for Taijul) instead of the 8th batsman.
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Old March 7, 2015, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
My assessment is correct and the stats bear it out. 8 overs from Dilshan for 1/35, 6 from Herath for 1/35, 7 from Vettori for 1/19 were economical in the middle overs, but not exactly innings wrecking or mind blowing by any means. If that wasn't the case a team like SL wouldn't have bowled only 14 overs of spin out of 50 against them. Not letting Dilshan or Herath bowl their quota tells us what we need to know. And I'm not talking warm up matches here I'm talking about actual world cup matches.

In this WC trend for batting sides has been to slow it down in the middle overs and prepare for a late innings burst because they know they can score at least 100 against pace and 150 against spin in the last 10 overs. That's where Marsh's 5/33 for Aus and SL's Mathews 1/43 earlier in the innings and Davey's 4/68 for Sco later in the innings were valuable.
They were economical whenever they bowled and yes mostly it was the middle overs. But lets not compare our seamers with their seamers. The fact that Herath and Dilshan didnt bowl more is exactly why England finished with a higher score. Their economy gives you that confusion.

You also said, we dont know how Taijul or Arafat would perform in these conditions and you are absolutely right on that. But what we have seen how are seamers have performed which has been poor. It almost tell you that the spinners would do no worse and with the overall record, might actually perform marginally better. At this point, you either have to pick between the uncertainty of spinners performing or the certainty of seamers going for tons of runs. I pick the first....

Also seeing Shak bowling should give you an indication of how Arafat and Taijul would perform because memory serves me right, these two have performed on par with Shak whenever they played. Just because they are not established players in the team doesnt mean we can automatically assume that their standards are inferior to Shak.
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  #23  
Old March 7, 2015, 12:17 PM
Shubho Shubho is offline
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The English would love nothing more than to face 30-35 overs of spin, particularly innocuous non-Shakib spin and all of it of the slow left-arm variety. They are fully prepared for it. And they are goading us into that stupid strategy. It's our own fault if we fall for that trap. A bowling attack needs variety. The fact that England has no variety (three tall right arm seamers who bowl in the high 130s and can't get the ball to swing) has been their undoing.
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  #24  
Old March 7, 2015, 12:24 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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The attack should be a balanced one.

We should go with 3 full time pacers( Mash, Taskin and Shafiul). Soumya should get a few overs of wicket to wicket medium pace bowling. Shakib and Taijul along with Riyad and Nasir would do more than to spin England.
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  #25  
Old March 7, 2015, 12:33 PM
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Rinathq Rinathq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubho
The English would love nothing more than to face 30-35 overs of spin, particularly innocuous non-Shakib spin and all of it of the slow left-arm variety. They are fully prepared for it. And they are goading us into that stupid strategy. It's our own fault if we fall for that trap. A bowling attack needs variety. The fact that England has no variety (three tall right arm seamers who bowl in the high 130s and can't get the ball to swing) has been their undoing.
having variety just for the sake of it is not smart. Yes in an ideal situation, we could have gone with 3 seamers, 1 who strikes early (mash), 1 who has good pace and bounce (taskin) and 1 bowls well at the death (Rubel). We would also have Shak who would pick wickets while keeping it tidy and 1 offie (riyad) who would bowl a few tidy overs, 1 leggie who would bring variation and 1 military medium pace to attract pinch hitters and grab some wickets. But all of these are "would be" situations. The likely situation is.... The one who strikes early would go for plenty in the end because the guy supposed to bowl in the end would get smashed when brought in during the middle. The one with the pace and bounce would lack just about everything else and unable to create any problems. the offie, the leggie would bowl an over or 2 well at most and if continued for a longer duration, they would make up for the early overs and more. and the military medium pace wont even bowl because the skipper would be too insecured after getting smashed with the regular full timer pacers. Shak would fight a lone lost battle.

I hope I am terribly wrong though... i really do
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