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  #1  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:04 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Default Shakib Al Hasan Fails to Justify "World Class Tag"

Before the tournament begun, I made a bold statement, Shakib Al Hasan is not world class. I was put down by members here arguing in favour of Shakib Al Hasan. I said the guy will not be considered world class if he keeps on failing against the big teams, merely not just performing home. He had the best chance to prove himself in front of the world and has failed terrible. Has he been a failure? Has BC members inflated his reputation to world class? I said that he is the best we got and a excellent player but has not proved that he is a world class player e.g all-rounder

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Old March 19, 2015, 01:06 PM
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What's your point?
  #3  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:09 PM
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@ MohammedShamim, Bhai, eto Shakib-er pichone laghchen ken?
If you can't read bangla, do a google translation.
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  #4  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:10 PM
BanCricFan BanCricFan is offline
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A very poor thread, ShamimMia!
  #5  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:11 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
What's your point?
Underperformance. Has not contributed much in the big games.. Or things and results could have been different. Performances is way below average against the big team.. He is one of the cause we failed to win or compete well against the big ones this World Cup. You expect the so called world class player to perform much better than this. Tamim is getting attacked right left and centre for his performance? What the hell did this Shakib Al Hasan do?
  #6  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:17 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Originally Posted by MohammedShamim
Underperformance. Has not contributed much in the big games.. Or things and results could have been different. Performances way below average against the big team.. He is one of the cause we failed to win or compete well against the big ones this World Cup. You expect the so called world class player to perform much better than this.
Ok. So what should we do? Tell ICC to remove him from ranking so that people don't get wrong message?
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Old March 19, 2015, 01:21 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
Ok. So what should we do? Tell ICC to remove him from ranking so that people don't get wrong message?
No. Just let us BD fans not look too much into the rankings when's its our players. Because most often against the big boys they play terrible cricket that at the end of the day people joke about it. And when people said something like Shakib is good player some of us felt like those people were biased because he is from Bangladesh??? They know what they are taking about.. So we should not just say aha it's because his from Bangladesh etc..
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Old March 19, 2015, 01:23 PM
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Still failed to see your point.
  #9  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:23 PM
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not thing again
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  #10  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:29 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
Still failed to see your point.
If you don't see the point I am sorry. I know the point will not be clear to some
  #11  
Old March 19, 2015, 01:55 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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It's sad this lonely guy was sitting there waiting for Shakib fail just so he could open this thread. I think part of him would've died if Shakib had played well.He'd rather be "right" than see his team (NVM! I remember now. You're a Pakistani afiridi loving guy.) do well thru Shakib. Whatever, you're right. Shakib didn't show up when we needed him to. Shakib didn't live up to his tag through the whole WC and only performed vs smaller sides. But is he still the number one, most balanced all rounder of this generation? Absolutely. But there will be always doubters like you, because he failed to live his mark on the biggest stage yesterday.
  #12  
Old March 19, 2015, 02:01 PM
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Is Shamim mia and Reverse20Soccer same guy? Both have passion for Shakib's failure!
  #13  
Old March 19, 2015, 02:03 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
It's sad this lonely guy was sitting there waiting for Shakib fail just so he could open this thread. I think part of him would've died if Shakib had played well. He'd rather be "right" than to his team do well thru Shakib. Whatever, you're right. Shakib didn't show up when we needed him to. Shakib didn't live up to his tag through the whole WC and only performed vs smaller sides. But is he still the number one, most balanced all rounder of this generation? Absolutely. But there will be always doubters like you, because he failed to live his mark on the biggest stage yesterday.
My friend you have failed to understand my point. Those so called commentators, experts from Australia, South Africa and England, often take the monkey out of hearing Shakib Al Hasan as being the no.1 all-rounder, why? according to us fans, like yourself, many has stated the biasness.. e.g. just because he is from bangladesh he is not getting recognised.. just because the others are failing he is not doing well... I feel in all the match against the big ones, Shakib came in at a very decent moment, where he had enough time to settle and do what he does best... is it not the case, yet he has failed terrible. I know people like you will have a closed mind, and will fight your corner.. and will not give up... I respect your opinion, if u think Shakib is the World best all rounder, fine. stick to your point. I dont like being aggressive while writing, but when you write is so typical, and i can guess what u are going to write, because you aint got no jake *** evidence to back up.. what your opinion inclines.. so better not talk with people with just merely opinions without any backup or proofs...

Ps: too say that i am a pakistani fan is disgraceful, as you don't know me personally... did i not say in another thread that ICC will allow bangladesh to go through so India can wipe our ...? I said they made it easy for us, and am i wrong? hmm dont think so.. India winning the toss again in a crucial game, because they knew we would have won, had we won the toss... is all...part of the plan. one more weird thing is the host Australia is facing Pakistan in Adelaine, where asian sides seem to do well.. i guess they are planning on knocking Australia out.
  #14  
Old March 19, 2015, 02:08 PM
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To be fair to Shakib, it's not as easy for a spinner to bowl in these conditions (most spinners struggled big time, Imran Tahir is an exception since he adds that much needed variation in the South African bowling lineup where pretty much you get close to 35+ overs of hostile pace from South Africa bowlers almost every match).

With that being said, Shakib al hasan apart from the Afghanistan match and Scotland match and maybe Sri Lankan match, he didn't contribute as well as he would like with the bat.
  #15  
Old March 19, 2015, 03:00 PM
tamzid90 tamzid90 is offline
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Shakib's only two decent scores have come against Scotland and Afghanistan. Shakib's bowlng has been well in terms of economy but not in terms of taking wickets.

Against Srilanka he gave it away at a crucial stage.

Against England he played a poor shot to get out when had he stayed we could have gotten more.

Against New Zealand he played one of the worst shots in recent memory after picking up 2 boundaries in the over

Against India the pressure of not scoring got to him and he was out

Overall his performance with the bat was a C- and with ball C+

He is supposed to be our best player and we expect more from him. Sometimes we expect too much from him as well.

He is not world class but he is the closest we have got to world class in terms of all round talent. Case closed.
  #16  
Old March 19, 2015, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedShamim
Before the tournament begun, I made a bold statement, Shakib Al Hasan is not world class. I was put down by members here arguing in favour of Shakib Al Hasan. I said the guy will not be considered world class if he keeps on failing against the big teams, merely not just performing home. He had the best chance to prove himself in front of the world and has failed terrible. Has he been a failure? Has BC members inflated his reputation to world class? I said that he is the best we got and a excellent player but has not proved that he is a world class player e.g all-rounder
What are the big teams he played against in this World Cup?

India? New Zealand? England? His record against India and New Zealand are impressive enough overall to stand scrutiny, even after a relatively poor game in this World Cup. He has multiple 50s against India, including one in 2007 WC and one in 2011 WC and a 49 against them in Asia Cup 2012. I don't have to go into detail regarding NZ.

Even against England, he had a remarkable, against-the-odds 50 in 2007 WC, when the second highest score was the Extras at 15: http://www.espncricinfo.com/wc2007/e...ch/247494.html
  #17  
Old March 19, 2015, 03:31 PM
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Imran Tahir came in to attack when two big wickets were gone. Jaya has a history against him 4 out 4 he got out.

Shakib comes in when Ind openers have already seen through the tough overs. Yet he is the one who got the break through.

Shamim mia, instead of asking us, you need to ask NZ fans about how dreadful Shakib is. Ask WI fans as well. Report us back with a poll question.
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  #18  
Old March 19, 2015, 03:41 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
What are the big teams he played against in this World Cup?

India? New Zealand? England? His record against India and New Zealand are impressive enough overall to stand scrutiny, even after a relatively poor game in this World Cup. He has multiple 50s against India, including one in 2007 WC and one in 2011 WC and a 49 against them in Asia Cup 2012. I don't have to go into detail regarding NZ.

Even against England, he had a remarkable, against-the-odds 50 in 2007 WC, when the second highest score was the Extras at 15: http://www.espncricinfo.com/wc2007/e...ch/247494.html
When someone refers me to the numbers and stats, I love it! so here you go:

2007 World Cup Analysis:

Shakib as Hasan was the second highest run getter for us in the 2007 world cup, he played 9 innings, 57* not out against England his highest in the tournment, with an Average of 28 with the bat, has only two fifties. is this world class material? No. His bowling, Navo was terrible, I mean terrible! 9 match, 7 wickets, economy 4.96 and strike rate 52.1, he was 5th in the wicket takers list amongst bangladeshi bowlers, with syed rasel being no.1. is this world class materia? nope. disaster.. do you want me to go more into 2011 now? just give me a moment for part 2, thanks.

2011 World Cup Analysis: Sub Continent:

My dear friend Navo: Please see the decline of the World class all-rounder:In 2011, his batting average was 23.66, highest 55 runs, world class material? in your dreams. (He did play home did he not)?His bowling was decent, 6 match 8 wickets, not bad. However world class? No. sorry not. I do not understand, how a world class failed in three consecutive world cup, without any star performance??? Ps: Shall we talk about the current world cup or should i stop? in the current world cup, except the minnows, he has performed below average against the big countries, e.g. India, England and NZ, I dont need numbers for this. After seeing this kind of stats, I do not understand how we can blindly believe that Shakib is a world class player. I mean, fair enough he can fail in one or two world cups, but three in a row? wow.
  #19  
Old March 19, 2015, 03:55 PM
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All these threads of not World class standard (one pre tournament, one post tournament) What is this standard you are talking about? Give it to us. Come on... Give us the average of batting, bowling, catches, runouts that would have made him world class had he achieved it. Waiting patiently. Do not post or reply unless you answer the bold.

How can I agree with you unless you give us the standard you are talking about. It is surely not subjective, is it?
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Old March 19, 2015, 04:01 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
All these threads of not World class standard (one pre tournament, one post tournament) What is this standard you are talking about? Give it to us. Come on... Give us the average of batting, bowling, catches, runouts that would have made him world class had he achieved it. Waiting patiently. Do not post or reply unless you answer the bold.

How can I agree with you unless you give us the standard you are talking about. It is surely not subjective, is it?
My point is simple, we started bashing those Australian, South africa commentators etc for saying shakib is a decent player, just because they did not say he is world class. I dont know. You can answer why should they call him world class, on what basic? has he given back something to them, to say his world class? It is my anger towards some bc members, that we often make silly assumptions and call people untowardly and also fall back on e.g. aha his bangladeshi that's why he does not get recongination.., he has not done anything signifcant at the biggest stage to be considered world class.. that my point. I have always said, shakib is the best we got..thats it. sometime we fans think we know more than others.. who have either played or spent a lot of time analysing cricket. Just have a look at his decline in the world cup begining from 2007. In none of the world cup, he has done something extraodinary with his bowling or batting... if he failed with his batting but did exceptionally well with his bowling, people would still say woow, he done really well, but at both department he has been aweful and declining... no improvement at all.

The bold part: for a start, you can definately ask a world class player to score a century? three consecutive world cup = None.
  #21  
Old March 19, 2015, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedShamim
My point is simple, we started bashing those Australian, South africa commentators etc for saying shakib is a decent player, just because they did not say he is world class. I dont know. You can answer why should they call him world class, on what basic? has he given back something to them, to say his world class? It is my anger towards some bc members, that we often make silly assumptions and call people untowardly and also fall back on e.g. aha his bangladeshi that's why he does not get recongination.., he has not done anything signifcant at the biggest stage to be considered world class.. that my point. I have always said, shakib is the best we got..thats it. sometime we fans think we know more than others.. who have either played or spent a lot of time analysing cricket. Just have a look at his decline in the world cup begining from 2007. In none of the world cup, he has done something extraodinary with his bowling or batting... if he failed with his batting but did exceptionally well with his bowling, people would still say woow, he done really well, but at both department he has been aweful and declining... no improvement at all.

The bold part: for a start, you can definately ask a world class player to score a century? three consecutive world cup = None.
sure. similarly, Misbah Ul Haq after 14 years of ODI cricket, and 160 ODIs, has no century. So forget world, Misbah is not even street class. While Anamul has 3 after 30 ODIs. so logic tells Anamul >>>> Misbah.

btw, are you the guy that was slapped by Shakib?
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Old March 19, 2015, 04:40 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
sure. similarly, Misbah Ul Haq after 14 years of ODI cricket, and 160 ODIs, has no century. So forget world, Misbah is not even street class. While Anamul has 3 after 30 ODIs. so logic tells Anamul >>>> Misbah.

btw, are you the guy that was slapped by Shakib?
Thats dumb, don't you think? Misbah has won Pakistan a lot of match's against strong teams in world cup.. has he not, even without scoring centuries.. his odd 70+ runs and how he gets team out of trouble is unique is it not? has shakib done that for Bangladesh? i mean.. even with those 50s, any sensible play from shakib? anyways they are different, not in the same category, so comparison is not right, one is batsmen and the other is a all-rounder. sometimes u don;t need to score a 100, if u have a different and unique talent.. in this case, shakib fails at both? does he not, three world cup, what special thing have you seen? I think you will agree shakib fails at the unique test and also the common test, score runs and centuries.. lol.. if u don't have certain unique ability. I am afriad, i did not know shakib slapped someone, sorry was not aware of this info..
  #23  
Old March 19, 2015, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedShamim
Thats dumb, don't you think? Misbah has won Pakistan a lot of match's against strong teams in world cup.. has he not, even without scoring centuries.. his odd 70+ runs and how he gets team out of trouble is unique is it not? has shakib done that for Bangladesh? i mean.. even with those 50s, any sensible play from shakib? anyways they are different, not in the same category, so comparison is not right, one is batsmen and the other is a all-rounder. sometimes u don;t need to score a 100, if u have a different and unique talent.. in this case, shakib fails at both? does he not, three world cup, what special thing have you seen? I think you will agree shakib fails at the unique test and also the common test, score runs and centuries.. lol.. if u don't have certain unique ability. I am afriad, i did not know shakib slapped someone, sorry was not aware of this info..
you give century stats and I replied. and now you say that's dumb.

Are you really asking if Shakib has ever won any game for BD? I just....can't. maybe the slap was so hard that you forgot everything.
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Old March 19, 2015, 04:56 PM
MohammedShamim MohammedShamim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
you give century stats and I replied. and now you say that's dumb.

Are you really asking if Shakib has ever won any game for BD? I just....can't. maybe the slap was so hard that you forgot everything.
dont be so typical and get aggresive! check the facts! shakib has failed to score a century in world cup even against minnows.. now i hope that will keep you at peace.. do you think i will be stupid like how you stupidly think that i was refering to shakib ever winning a match for bangladesh? you can keep your point, no need to be aggresive if you dont have a worthy responce, its the typical behaviour that kicks in, i understand. if you dont have something good to say, in a good mannered way, refrain. I like stats and data's, and sometimes they are strong indicative of how a player is, sometimes not all the time, in shakibs case.. is not helping him. his stats and on-field performance is terrible, nothing unique.. about him.
  #25  
Old March 19, 2015, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedShamim
dont be so typical and get aggresive! check the facts! shakib has failed to score a century in world cup even against minnows.. now i hope that will keep you at peace.. do you think i will be stupid like how you stupidly think that i was refering to shakib ever winning a match for bangladesh? you can keep your point, no need to be aggresive if you dont have a worthy responce, its the typical behaviour that kicks in, i understand. if you dont have something good to say, in a good mannered way, refrain. I like stats and data's, and sometimes they are strong indicative of how a player is, sometimes not all the time, in shakibs case.. is not helping him. his stats and on-field performance is terrible, nothing unique.. about him.
no I will not stop being aggressive. A stupid thread doesn't deserve any respect. you want stats? I can lay down and analyze Shakib's entire career for you with context.

so tell me what you want? yes he hasn't scored a 100 in WC, so what? I said Misbah hasn't scored in his entire career of 160 ODIs. then you say its a dumb comparison and go on winning matches. And I say, you don't think Shakib hasn't single handedly won matches for BD?

Tell me how many matches has Shakib won for BD? as you like stats so much, go ahead tell me.
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