facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 30, 2004, 01:08 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: January 22, 2004
Posts: 21,739
Default More on Openers

My recent questions about our Test openers and styles in another thread was very interesting. Someone had mentioned that Javed Omar had not been given his due often enough. So I decided to find out how we have been playing and playing with our openers. I had some data which I plotted.
[MH = Mehrab, JO = Javed Omar, HS = Hannan Sarker, AS = Al Sahariar, SH = Shahriar Hossain, and AH = Anisul Hakim]

Here's the chart and my comments follow:



It does not look like we've experimented too much with our openers. And Javed Omar has actually been the most consistently used opener. Only after his not so stellar peformance in NZ (did anyone really do well there?) and the coming of Hannan onto the scene did we see him getting dropped. The more recent instance of his being missing from the line uo was due to injury.

On the other hand Al Sahariar was brought in place of Mehrab. My memory is failing me, but was Mehrab dropped due to a bad patch or was he injured?

Remember this was the time we were dropping players and bringing in new ones after just one bad patch.

Post Whatmore, it does look like Hannan Sarker and Javed Omar are the first choices.

And, please, no snide comments about having too much time on my hands. I've been loading BD Test data on and off for a while - this is the first time I had a chance to do something "useful" with it.

I would like to hear yall's comment - especially real cricketers unlike me.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Zunaid : tpyos]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 30, 2004, 05:16 AM
Carte Blanche's Avatar
Carte Blanche Carte Blanche is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: September 14, 2003
Location: Pacific
Posts: 2,498

Nifty work there Dr Z.

Golla has had enough chances. Imho, the only thing that stands out for him is his fielding. He is a fantastic fielder. I've seen him pull off a great number of good catches and run-outs, both in Intl. Cricket and Domestic competetions. But we don't have a place for a specialist 12th man, or do we? He is simply too slow for the ODI games. I know most of the BD openers have a low strike rate, but Golla is even worse. He takes too long to get things going for himself. And if he fails, it just causes unnecessary pressure for the lower middle order. Manjarul Rana has been a great find from the African tour. I wonder if Dav has plans on sticking to him for ODIs. Like Golla, he also takes a while to get going. But he can make up for it with some lusty hittings. Handy bowler too. More importantly, young blood. I'd personally go for Biddyut and Rana as ODI openers. Hannan+Biddyut sounds solid enough for the 5 day version too. Golla isn't getting any younger, we should find an established opening pair out of the youngsters (or relatively younger ones, i.e. not buras).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 30, 2004, 08:46 AM
FaltuRidwanBhai FaltuRidwanBhai is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 15, 2004
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 3,044

well i guess,
for the one days rana and biddut is going to be a good choice. but you are right golla is one of the best fielders of bangladesh. bulbul was also a very good fielder and so is i think rajin. well when golla used to practice in the buet field i used to see that he actually did fielding practice for a long time and the outcome has also been very good. he has become one of the best fielders of our team. and i think you are right that golla is actually not a good choice for the one days. but i think he still is a good opener for the test matches. i think we should give him a chance. and i dont think that he is that old that we should think that his time has gone. but the unfortunate thing is that i dont think he scored that many runs in this corporate league which might be a concern for the selectors and the coach. but he still has a few more matches to prove himself and i hope he will be able to prove him. but shahriar has really proved him and has also held his confidence very high. hope he will be able to shine in the upcoming tour in west indies also.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 30, 2004, 10:47 AM
reinausagi reinausagi is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: August 5, 2003
Location: El Paso, TX. USA
Posts: 813

Excellent work Dr. Z. Your charting skill by far exceed the skills of that pretentious pretender: Richard Mcinnis.

Kidding aside, I don't know if you have too much time on your hands. But, the time (and contribution) you make for (towards) this forum is greatly appreciated. It was interesting to see the progression of our opener dilemna since the first test. Though I cannot remenber why we dropped Shariar Hossain after the first test.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 30, 2004, 11:03 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
Retired BC Admin
 
Join Date: August 14, 2003
Location: pc near u
Posts: 8,021

Dr. Z, since you already might have most if not all the relevant datas, would you care for a performance chart for the oppeners as well? Love your chart. Simply brilliant.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 30, 2004, 11:18 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: January 22, 2004
Posts: 21,739

Quote:
Originally posted by chinaman
Dr. Z, since you already might have most if not all the relevant datas, would you care for a performance chart for the oppeners as well? Love your chart. Simply brilliant.
My data is still in raw form - haven't built the underlying data model to load it into a database so that we can make queries like that. But, if you could elaborate on what you might like to see, I'll see what I can do.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 30, 2004, 11:20 AM
Beamer's Avatar
Beamer Beamer is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: December 15, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Sid Crosby.
Posts: 9,707

Dr. Z
nice chart. One day opening chart any time? probably way too long and too many players.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 30, 2004, 11:21 AM
AsifTheManRahman's Avatar
AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
Super Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,675

Brilliant work Dr.Z!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 30, 2004, 12:00 PM
chinaman chinaman is offline
Retired BC Admin
 
Join Date: August 14, 2003
Location: pc near u
Posts: 8,021

A plain performance chart. Say for tests, how many runs they scored with number of balls facing in each innings. Hope this isn't too much of a hassle.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 30, 2004, 12:18 PM
rio rio is offline
Club Cricketer
 
Join Date: March 11, 2004
Location: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Favorite Player: Shakib
Posts: 112

I think AH = Anwar Hossain not Anisul Hakim. Anyways nice chart.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old April 30, 2004, 12:27 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: January 22, 2004
Posts: 21,739

Quote:
Originally posted by rio
I think AH = Anwar Hossain not Anisul Hakim. Anyways nice chart.
thukku - you are right..

Anwar Hossain (2) and not Anwar Hossain (1). The latter played for Biman and was/is a pacer (played once in the Oz tour)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old April 30, 2004, 12:37 PM
crazyisland crazyisland is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: August 27, 2003
Location: Chittagong
Posts: 289

Good work and good analysis.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old April 30, 2004, 02:23 PM
Piranha's Avatar
Piranha Piranha is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: November 23, 2002
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Posts: 893

Dr Z. Excellent chart! This is really good stuff

I was the one who made a comment abut JO not having enough chances...It seems I stand corrected (and my memory seems to be failing me).
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old April 30, 2004, 04:07 PM
FaltuRidwanBhai FaltuRidwanBhai is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 15, 2004
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 3,044

ji dr. bhai,
chomotkar kintu akti kaj korechen kintu apni. drishtinondon kaj. erokom akti kaj kintu onekdin mone thakbe ai forumer shodoshhoder. erokom colorful shot i mean colorful chart ato shomoy niye baniyechen eta kintu shotti bolar moton kaj. jaihok asha korbo apni bhobishhoteo erokom creative kaj kore amader ai forumer shodoshhoder mugdho korben. dannabad.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old April 30, 2004, 04:30 PM
AsifTheManRahman's Avatar
AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
Super Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,675

I guess by congratulating Dr.Z, all of us kinda forgot the main purpose of this thread...

Well, yes I guess we haven't experimented much...but then we never had too many options...sending in Rafique at number one or two is feasible in one day cricket, but in test matches, although we had a handful of specialist openers, none of them seemed to click on a regular basis, so that we were not left with too many options...
In my opinion the problem was with our batsmen's temperament, and that goes to all batsmen, not only the openers. In the past, it's been our openers who've been the "Bolir Patha's" most of the time, whereas the selectors seemed to care very little about the others..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old April 30, 2004, 04:44 PM
Rubu's Avatar
Rubu Rubu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: February 15, 2004
Location: Michigan
Favorite Player: Tamim Iqbal
Posts: 8,198

this is my personal opinion for openers. rana and shahrier should open for odi and shahrier and javed omar for test. as some of u already pointed out, JO is not a long term prospect. but, imho, he is a good choice for the upcoming series. we need to work on a opening pair for long term but WI tour is too close for any other experiemnt.

i'd like to see experiemntal decisions made during the camp and players practiced accordingly. not anything made on the night before the match.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 30, 2004, 04:53 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
Administrator
BanglaCricket Founder
 
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Favorite Player: তামীম, শা
Posts: 9,471

Dr. Z

I have done a lot of fruitless charts myself. Great work. Now, do you need a hand with that or you pretty much have all you need ?

Javed for me is a good opening option in tests. He shows true grit and at this stage we need to worry about putting more runs on the board. For ODIs Rana is simply a better choice. He still needs to prove himself and imho he will benefit us more as a middle order bat. We have plenty of opetions for the opening slot. By the way, his performance dipped (please don't cry about dropping him now) a little in the CCL.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old April 30, 2004, 04:58 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
Administrator
BanglaCricket Founder
 
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Favorite Player: তামীম, শা
Posts: 9,471

oooooh, just got BURNED.

This is what RANA does to naysayers. Should have read the report before running my mouth:

ACME V AKTEL
Tigers allrounder Manjarul Islam Rana continued to impress with a strokeful 54 not out as Aktel overhauled the 93 required for victory in just 19 overs for the loss of one wicket.

--- and he did it as an opener.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old April 30, 2004, 05:00 PM
Rubu's Avatar
Rubu Rubu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: February 15, 2004
Location: Michigan
Favorite Player: Tamim Iqbal
Posts: 8,198

yeah i was suprised to see your first post. on a overall basis, he is much more consistant than anyother player in the team.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old April 30, 2004, 05:09 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: January 22, 2004
Posts: 21,739

agent - why not Hannan?

Why not Hannan and Javed Omar for Tests?

If Shahriar matures he can be brought in to replace Javed as he ages.

As for Rokon, I always thought he was better suited for 1 down and not opening - part of his failure was our fault for putting him in a position he isn't suited for.

I suppose for all parctical purposes - Mehrab is out of contention. Several years down the road we may look to the youngster from the U-19.

Now as for ODIs, we've used the following for openers at least 5 times:

Al Sahariar Rokon
Athar Ali Khan
Azhar Hossain
Habibul Bashar
Hannan Sarkar
Javed Omar
Mehrab Hossain
Mohammed Ashraful
Shahriar Hossain

Of this list -
Athar and Azhar are long gone.
Mehrab is out I suppose.

Hannan has scored ok opening in terms of runs scored (average 19, but is slower than we like)

Rokon hasn't done too well in ODIs in general - very low teens average.

Bashar does best 4 down. His average here is double that when he opens or comes one down.

Ashraful opened many times but his average opening or coming first down is in the low teens. He somehow does better later in the order.

Javed has the best average opening for Bangladesh in ODIs of this lot. 23+

Shariar is next with 20+.

So perhaps we should persist with Javed Omar and Shahriar as opening. I know many of us (including me) have been wanting Rana opening, but perhaps he can be better used later in the order.

We may end up with two completely different opening pair for Tests and ODIs

Javed Omar and Hannan for Tests.
Shahriar and Rana for ODis.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old April 30, 2004, 05:17 PM
Rubu's Avatar
Rubu Rubu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: February 15, 2004
Location: Michigan
Favorite Player: Tamim Iqbal
Posts: 8,198

i didn't want hannan for opening in WI series for his current form. his performance was no good except for the last match. and here on (CLL) shahrier did better. so i picked him for both test and odi. for other odi, i choose rana. don't know, this guy already got a soft corner in me and i rate him above bashar! we have good opener, but we don't have good opening pair. it seems like its not matter for rana that with whom he is opening. so, i go for rana. JO experience could come handy in test. so, he comes ahead of rana in test. but ofcourse rana must play, doesn't matter where. it was really sad to see him sitting out for first two matches against ZIM just because we had to keep a position reserved for chacha.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old April 30, 2004, 05:39 PM
Navarene's Avatar
Navarene Navarene is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 25, 2003
Location: Polatok
Favorite Player: Sangakkara
Posts: 2,233

My pick for the opening slot:
Test: Javed Omar/Hannan Sarkar
ODI: Shahriar Hossain/Manjurul Rana

I know most of you guys wouldn't agree if I mentioned Al Shahriar Rokon's name as an opener, but I still think Rokon should have selected for WI tour. He has been scoring consistantly for the past few months and seems like he is back to his form.
P.S. nice work, Zunaid.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old April 30, 2004, 09:40 PM
AsifTheManRahman's Avatar
AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
Super Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,675

I agree with Navarene
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old May 1, 2004, 02:25 AM
Flip Master Mick's Avatar
Flip Master Mick Flip Master Mick is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: April 13, 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 506

I agree with most posts on picking Shahriar Hussain and Manzur Rana as openers for the ODIs. As for the tests, Javed Omar is the obvious choice. But the real dilemma is choosing his partner. Hannan Sarkar may well be the most talented opener we have got but these are his runs since Australia - 55, 41, 30, 6, 7, 13, 3, 20, 59, 28, 4, 4, 10, 25 - at 21.79 runs an inning. I do understand that the stats are not too below par for a BD batsman but we really should find a way to bolster his performance. And this is where first class cricket or rather the lack of it comes into play. Our national players seldom get to participate in full-fledged first-class competitions.

I would pair up Shahriar Hussain with Javed Omar for the longer version of the game.

and of course, dr. z, extraordinary work! What would we do without you?

[Edited on 1-5-2004 by Flip Master Mick]
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old May 1, 2004, 01:01 PM
AsifTheManRahman's Avatar
AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
Super Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,675

I wouldn't say Mehrab's gone...not yet

I'd said that a couple of times abt Shariar, but look how he came back!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket