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  #26  
Old February 1, 2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Trump did not happen in a day, it happened because of our bigotry.

We can only take the moral high ground if we are willing to protest against all conservative government who oppress people.

The six gulf countries from GCC do not accept refugees. We remain quiet.
Kuwait bans immigration from 5 countries including Syria and no one says anything.
Saudi Arabia considers their land as holy ground and bans non muslims from a lot of its land and yet we seem to be fine with that.

Anyone writing a blog or critisizing islam has to fear for his life in Bangladesh and Pakistan and yet we decide to ignore, not to mention the same people killing the bloggers and free thinkers are responsible for holey artisan.

We had Vested property act in Bangladesh for 30 years and hindu lands were taken from them and yet we kept a blind eye . Infact 90% of bengalis dont even know what act I am talking about.

So bottom line, if we cannot or did not protest agaisnt the above than we have no right to protest against trump. Because we created Trump.
Incorrect actually.

None of Trumps supprters have even heard of "Bangladesh" or "GCC" or "vested property act". In fact if you told them Trump tower is located in Manhattan, 75% of would have no idea where on a map or in which state "Manhattan" is located. You can't be "created" by something you don't know about.

I'll tell you what did create Donald Trump.

Racism and bigotry have always existed in America. The civil war didn't end it, it just changed the way its manifested. 100 years after reconstruction Blacks were physically barred from voting...recollect fire hoses being used on them when they PEACEFULLY protested.

After MLK used Christian principles to induce shame in a substantial number of white people, and a majority of "liberals", segregation ended, the N word became taboo, and being a racist became the anathema rather than the rule.

But a majority of whites still held to objectively racist views. Of course the definition of racist has been changed. So if you haven't actually lynched a black guy, said the N word publicly, or still own slaves...you "cannot be a racist" because "some of your friends are black".

But these I'm-not-a-racists support at EVERY instance any and all issues that would be the detriment of Black people.

To quote Trevor Noah, "how is a black person supposed to air his/her grievances?"

But since the time of MLK, it was taboo to be OPENLY racist.You couldn't make BLANKET statements against black people, Jews, gays, hispanics, or any other minority group and be taken seriously. Most likely, you'd lose your job...even if you worked for Fox News.

Except for Islam or Muslims.

That was the one group post 2000 that you could make blanket statements with and still be considered to hold a "valid" enough idea to get mainstream coverage on platforms like ABC, NBC, CNN, etc.

The interesting thing about bigotry is that when you allow it to fester against one group, it tends to expand and infect every other group, albeit it slowly.

What do you think MLK meant when he said "injustice anywhere is a threat of justice everywhere?" Or the German guy who said "first they came for the Jews and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Jewish...?"

Islamophobia - not genuine constructive criticism of Muslims - but Islamophobia was never going to satisfy the Rabid Right. Now you have Walls being built against Mexicans...why? Because who will resist? Now you have AGs who will essentially give the green light to cops shooting black men...why? Because who will resist?

First they came for the Muslims...

The way I see it, its "liberals", who have the most to lose...not Muslims.

We didn't have due process to begin with...Obama brought some but that was always temporary and conditional. Muslim countries were still going to be invaded, if not by American drones, then by Russian MIGs.

Now whats going to happen when the Supreme Court gets a 7-2 bench in favor of the "conservatives?"

Will it stand up for women? Will it stand up for LGBTs? Will it stand up for abortion rights?

And will it stand up for the "liberal" brown man who voted Trump for only reasons that "liberal" brown man knows?

The next 8 years will reveal all these answers and more.
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  #27  
Old February 1, 2017, 03:03 PM
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Liberals did not create Donald Trump.

"Liberals" created Donald Trump by cherry picking which aspects of Liberalism they wanted to uphold in order to keep their ego satisfied.

I cherry pick all the time...but the key point is I don't call myself a "liberal" or a "conservative" even if I side with one of them on 90% of issues and with a 100% voting record.
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  #28  
Old February 1, 2017, 03:32 PM
tonmoy.dhaka tonmoy.dhaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Incorrect actually.

None of Trumps supprters have even heard of "Bangladesh" or "GCC" or "vested property act". In fact if you told them Trump tower is located in Manhattan, 75% of would have no idea where on a map or in which state "Manhattan" is located. You can't be "created" by something you don't know about.

I'll tell you what did create Donald Trump.

Racism and bigotry have always existed in America. The civil war didn't end it, it just changed the way its manifested. 100 years after reconstruction Blacks were physically barred from voting...recollect fire hoses being used on them when they PEACEFULLY protested.

After MLK used Christian principles to induce shame in a substantial number of white people, and a majority of "liberals", segregation ended, the N word became taboo, and being a racist became the anathema rather than the rule.

But a majority of whites still held to objectively racist views. Of course the definition of racist has been changed. So if you haven't actually lynched a black guy, said the N word publicly, or still own slaves...you "cannot be a racist" because "some of your friends are black".

But these I'm-not-a-racists support at EVERY instance any and all issues that would be the detriment of Black people.

To quote Trevor Noah, "how is a black person supposed to air his/her grievances?"

But since the time of MLK, it was taboo to be OPENLY racist.You couldn't make BLANKET statements against black people, Jews, gays, hispanics, or any other minority group and be taken seriously. Most likely, you'd lose your job...even if you worked for Fox News.

Except for Islam or Muslims.

That was the one group post 2000 that you could make blanket statements with and still be considered to hold a "valid" enough idea to get mainstream coverage on platforms like ABC, NBC, CNN, etc.

The interesting thing about bigotry is that when you allow it to fester against one group, it tends to expand and infect every other group, albeit it slowly.

What do you think MLK meant when he said "injustice anywhere is a threat of justice everywhere?" Or the German guy who said "first they came for the Jews and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Jewish...?"

Islamophobia - not genuine constructive criticism of Muslims - but Islamophobia was never going to satisfy the Rabid Right. Now you have Walls being built against Mexicans...why? Because who will resist? Now you have AGs who will essentially give the green light to cops shooting black men...why? Because who will resist?

First they came for the Muslims...

The way I see it, its "liberals", who have the most to lose...not Muslims.

We didn't have due process to begin with...Obama brought some but that was always temporary and conditional. Muslim countries were still going to be invaded, if not by American drones, then by Russian MIGs.

Now whats going to happen when the Supreme Court gets a 7-2 bench in favor of the "conservatives?"

Will it stand up for women? Will it stand up for LGBTs? Will it stand up for abortion rights?

And will it stand up for the "liberal" brown man who voted Trump for only reasons that "liberal" brown man knows?

The next 8 years will reveal all these answers and more.
Tell me this, when Hefazot tries to demean women, turns every minority (non muslims) of Bangladesh into second class citizens, how many of us resisted?

Forget hefazots, I have been to countless sermons in Bangladesh where the imam openly mocks the hindus (tell me you never heard it). I have studied in an english medium school (DT), where our physics teacher openly said "Jews cannot be trusted". This is the bangladesh of today unfortunately.

Who are we to talk against Trump when we treat refugees in Bangladesh (biharis and rohingyas) worse than Trump can ever imagine. I am not even going to mention about the indigenous people.

Look at this forum itself. We are so huge on protesting against Trump and his anti muslim stance, yet few days back there were hindu temples burned and destroyed in Bangladesh and no one showed even a spec of remorse.

The above is not only true for Bangladesh but most citizens in most muslim countries.

You think the world is blind to our bigotry? No they are not...

As i said before... Please protest against Trump, but also include all the conservative leaders that oppress people. Dont pick and choose and dont be a bigot, otherwise you are no better than a trump supporter.

I have been a liberal all my life, but we are slowly becoming a minority. I am not talking about being a liberal in USA because I am a minority and be a conservative in Bangladesh because I am a majority
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  #29  
Old February 1, 2017, 03:37 PM
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Just yesterday I saw a tweet, seems very relevant.

"When people say you can't protest injustice until you protest every single injustice they mean don't bother opposing any at all"

- https://twitter.com/OwenJones84
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  #30  
Old February 1, 2017, 04:03 PM
tonmoy.dhaka tonmoy.dhaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
Just yesterday I saw a tweet, seems very relevant.

"When people say you can't protest injustice until you protest every single injustice they mean don't bother opposing any at all"

- https://twitter.com/OwenJones84
I completely agree with the quote and that is not what I am saying.

But you have to be consistent on your beliefs otherwise you are a bigot.
example: I support equal rights. No matter which corner of the world God decides to drop me, my belief would not change.
Otherwise it is not hard to see the bigotry in people. And that would give birth to more trumps.
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  #31  
Old February 1, 2017, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Tell me this, when Hefazot tries to demean women, turns every minority (non muslims) of Bangladesh into second class citizens, how many of us resisted?

Forget hefazots, I have been to countless sermons in Bangladesh where the imam openly mocks the hindus (tell me you never heard it). I have studied in an english medium school (DT), where our physics teacher openly said "Jews cannot be trusted". This is the bangladesh of today unfortunately.

Who are we to talk against Trump when we treat refugees in Bangladesh (biharis and rohingyas) worse than Trump can ever imagine. I am not even going to mention about the indigenous people.

Look at this forum itself. We are so huge on protesting against Trump and his anti muslim stance, yet few days back there were hindu temples burned and destroyed in Bangladesh and no one showed even a spec of remorse.

The above is not only true for Bangladesh but most citizens in most muslim countries.

You think the world is blind to our bigotry? No they are not...

As i said before... Please protest against Trump, but also include all the conservative leaders that oppress people. Dont pick and choose and dont be a bigot, otherwise you are no better than a trump supporter.

I have been a liberal all my life, but we are slowly becoming a minority. I am not talking about being a liberal in USA because I am a minority and be a conservative in Bangladesh because I am a majority
There were plenty of people who opposed Hefazot. Hundreds of thousands of people. There were mass protests and there is a unanimous support in all the important places. Daniel Pipes talks about the 5 Ps...politicians, police, press, and some others I can't recall as being paramount in the fight against Islamism in Europe. All the Ps in Bangladesh are aligned against the perversion of Islam that Hefazot represents.

I don't understand why you expect anything decent from the village educated and politically motivated mullahs...they are the rabble rousers of their society. They are the Steve Bannon's of Bangladesh.

If you are a liberal, you have more to lose with the rise of global conservatism unless you have bleached your skin and died your hair and legally changed your name. I can not claim to be a liberal because I'm simply not. I cannot claim to be a conservative because I'm just not.

Do you believe strongly in a woman's right to have fair and necessary access to healthcare? Do you believe that society has a moral responsibility to fairly redistribute resources so that even the poorest people have access to economic mobility? Do you believe that capital punishment is problematic because no justice system is free of bias? Do you believe that LGBT people should have equal rights to straight people?

If you answered Yes to any of those, you've got more to lose than I do, because none of those things affect me directly at the current time. Current time being a significant qualifier.

If you have answered No to any of those, you aren't "liberal" or progressive by the 21st century Western definition of those terms.

Movements like Trumps cannot be supported in part because part of it is "acceptable" or OK. Because then everyone will support some aspect and he will then garner 100% support and you will end up screwing yourself.
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  #32  
Old February 1, 2017, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
I completely agree with the quote and that is not what I am saying.

But you have to be consistent on your beliefs otherwise you are a bigot.
example: I support equal rights. No matter which corner of the world God decides to drop me, my belief would not change.
Otherwise it is not hard to see the bigotry in people. And that would give birth to more trumps.
To be consistent with what beliefs? do you know everyone individually those that protest or don't? or are you making assumption that they don't stand up for x,y,z that you have listed? I think its very wrong of you to impose your beliefs on others, without actually knowing their circumstances or personally.

You can't keep using Bangladesh or Muslims countries as your reason, I am not sure how good you history knowledge is, but you would find that this kind of things happened nearly in every decade. now the situation is even worse and could get even more uglier.

You don't try to wipe out some bad people by targeting the many good ones.. illogical.
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  #33  
Old February 1, 2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
I completely agree with the quote and that is not what I am saying.

But you have to be consistent on your beliefs otherwise you are a bigot.
example: I support equal rights. No matter which corner of the world God decides to drop me, my belief would not change.
Otherwise it is not hard to see the bigotry in people. And that would give birth to more trumps.
Thats not the definition of a bigot or bigotry. That may be a manifestation, but that is not specific to an unbiased person.

For example, ISIS' views are also "consistent" regardless of what corner of the world they are in. Dhaka to San Bernardino, was there any inconsistency in ISIS ideology? No. They hate anyone who doesn't hold their views or advance their objectives whether in Syria or America.

The definition of a bigot is a person who exhibits bigotry, or prejudice and hatred towards others. There may also be legal nuances beyond that depending on jurisdiction...for example beating up Jews is a hate crime...beating up left handed Jews is just assault (example from Law and Order TV show).

You are defining hypocrisy, but even then not really.

For example take the noted Middle East policy expert and zionist Daniel Pipes. He has stated himself that Conseravtives in the US and EU need to back conservatives in their countries and promote Liberalis in Muslim countries because it guarantees their interests. Even that is not inconsistent. Its very consistent, in fact.
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  #34  
Old February 2, 2017, 12:37 AM
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I can see why Latinos,women,Black people voted for Trump,Democrats has promised lots for years for these groups, and it hasn't happened.
Their is still many unemployed,many not liking the costs associated with Obamacare its gone up a lot,the police haven't changed,on the other side crime hasn't changed.
Their hasn't been a rainy day since Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan.Obamas' gains were modest.

I am not saying Trump is the answer,but you have to look at the electorate.
Another thing,everytime a Repiblican gets appointed their is protest,the Democrats protests,the leftists protests,I mean these protests are well organised.Protests started the day after he was elected.

I will be honest I am attracted to qualities on both the left and on the right.
But will be honest with you,both Clinton(corrupt) and Trump(probably corrupt),were not acceptable candidates.
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  #35  
Old February 2, 2017, 01:30 AM
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8 year old girl killed in raid approved by Trump.
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  #36  
Old February 2, 2017, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Thats not the definition of a bigot or bigotry. That may be a manifestation, but that is not specific to an unbiased person.

For example, ISIS' views are also "consistent" regardless of what corner of the world they are in. Dhaka to San Bernardino, was there any inconsistency in ISIS ideology? No. They hate anyone who doesn't hold their views or advance their objectives whether in Syria or America.

The definition of a bigot is a person who exhibits bigotry, or prejudice and hatred towards others. There may also be legal nuances beyond that depending on jurisdiction...for example beating up Jews is a hate crime...beating up left handed Jews is just assault (example from Law and Order TV show).

You are defining hypocrisy, but even then not really.

For example take the noted Middle East policy expert and zionist Daniel Pipes. He has stated himself that Conseravtives in the US and EU need to back conservatives in their countries and promote Liberalis in Muslim countries because it guarantees their interests. Even that is not inconsistent. Its very consistent, in fact.

I am not sure what you are trying to say, but just to be clear my only point was

We can only take the moral high ground if we are willing to protest against all conservative government who oppress people. Ask your conscience what percentage of people are are even bothered when minorities in our parts of the world are subjected to harassment and torture.
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  #37  
Old February 2, 2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
I am not sure what you are trying to say, but just to be clear my only point was

We can only take the moral high ground if we are willing to protest against all conservative government who oppress people. Ask your conscience what percentage of people are are even bothered when minorities in our parts of the world are subjected to harassment and torture.
I think this kind of things happened even before, thousand years ago...

still happening today.. and still will continue to happen

you have to remember, everything won't be perfect...

just to use that reason like you don't say or stand up for minorities...

doesn't mean you can stand up for the majority..

I find this logic very hard to understand...

The world is being divided here.. now its heading towards a religious kind of battle.. bigger than those things you mentioned..

its like you trying to say you can protest against Trump because you are not protesting against others that are against minorities? very strange.
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Last edited by SportingBD; February 2, 2017 at 05:15 PM..
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  #38  
Old February 2, 2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
To be consistent with what beliefs? do you know everyone individually those that protest or don't? or are you making assumption that they don't stand up for x,y,z that you have listed? I think its very wrong of you to impose your beliefs on others, without actually knowing their circumstances or personally.

You can't keep using Bangladesh or Muslims countries as your reason, I am not sure how good you history knowledge is, but you would find that this kind of things happened nearly in every decade. now the situation is even worse and could get even more uglier.

You don't try to wipe out some bad people by targeting the many good ones.. illogical.
Are you serious?
I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone. You are the captain of your own ship. But just know this much, in order to be taken seriously you must not support a side but support a cause.
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  #39  
Old February 2, 2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Are you serious?
I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone. You are the captain of your own ship. But just know this much, in order to be taken seriously you must not support a side but support a cause.
What side is trump supporting and what's his cause? please explain.

Saudi not banned? Pakistan not banned? other middle east countries that he has business in is not banned..

so what is his actual cause/reason for the ban? have you looked deep into it?

and finally what do you think of trump? please state some positives..
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  #40  
Old February 2, 2017, 04:53 PM
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its a poor excuse that you can't protest or show concerns for one issue if you don't show concerns for all and every single one of them. this issue is particularly important because it affects us personally living in US. so I can't speak out about the injustices of the country I am living in because I don't pay much attention or protested about rights in gulf countries?

I am not saying ignore hindu/minority rights in BD but just scream about Palestinian rights. That is hypocritical. But as an American (Bangladeshi by birth) I care more about US/Canada than issues in BD. And I care more about BD than let's say about North Korea. People will react and respond based on their personal interaction.
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  #41  
Old February 2, 2017, 04:58 PM
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I felt sad by what Tonmoy said.

He started calling people bigot just because people don't protest for the minority?

that's awful bro, really awful. especially as you don't have any clue about people's circumstances etc
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  #42  
Old February 2, 2017, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
I felt sad by what Tonmoy said.

He started calling people bigot just because people don't protest for the minority?

that's awful bro, really awful. especially as you don't have any clue about people's circumstances etc
I did not call you or anyone here bigot,
I am not sure if you really did not understand my message or just pretend to but in either case I have nothing to explain to you further.

but just for mufi, please note, If someone is directly impacted like you than ofcourse you have every right to feel more aggrieved. Unlike you and unfortunately for a lot of us, we are not impacted by Trump. We dislike him and rightly so, but when it comes to our own society (muslim society) we embrace people who are worse than Trump.

Anyways to get back to the real matter in hand. Trump will make it hard to attain H1B visa, that will probably spell doom for the indian IT industry. Not to mention the tech industry in US would suffer too.
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  #43  
Old February 3, 2017, 12:10 AM
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I have a blank mind when it comes to Trump.
My curioisity is what he will do next.
He has said he won't take refugees from Nauru,that Obama promised.
Made our pm look a foolish and neutral.
But yet I have a blank.
Yes I am white.
I am not for him.
I am not against him.

I didn't like Clinton she was a ***** liar.

I can see arguments for and afainst him,clearly.
I just remain blank.
Lets see what he does after 4 or 8 years,and then judge.
You can't blame him for sticking to his election promises.
In Australia we have hard core promises and non core promises.In otherwise whoever is elected Liberal or Labor they never do what they say at the election,their is always a nasty surprise.
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  #44  
Old February 3, 2017, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
I am not sure what you are trying to say, but just to be clear my only point was

We can only take the moral high ground if we are willing to protest against all conservative government who oppress people. Ask your conscience what percentage of people are are even bothered when minorities in our parts of the world are subjected to harassment and torture.
The same percentage - give or take - of Americans who denounced Dylan Roof when he killed 9 black churchgoers in South Carolina.

But its foolish to think that is how "moral high ground" is attained - if it exists at all, to begin with.

Your mother and my mother both get the flu...is it realistic, logical, or sane for one to expect me to spend as much time inquiring about your mother's condition as I do mine?

I don't think it would be. Thats just foolish and in the case at hand very counterproductive.
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  #45  
Old February 3, 2017, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Trump did not happen in a day, it happened because of our bigotry.

We can only take the moral high ground if we are willing to protest against all conservative government who oppress people.

The six gulf countries from GCC do not accept refugees. We remain quiet.
Kuwait bans immigration from 5 countries including Syria and no one says anything.
Saudi Arabia considers their land as holy ground and bans non muslims from a lot of its land and yet we seem to be fine with that.

Anyone writing a blog or critisizing islam has to fear for his life in Bangladesh and Pakistan and yet we decide to ignore, not to mention the same people killing the bloggers and free thinkers are responsible for holey artisan.

We had Vested property act in Bangladesh for 30 years and hindu lands were taken from them and yet we kept a blind eye . Infact 90% of bengalis dont even know what act I am talking about.

So bottom line, if we cannot or did not protest agaisnt the above than we have no right to protest against trump. Because we created Trump.
You said Trump happened for our bigotry, that's wrong, and I can't allow you to make such statement without actually knowing people's circumstances, especially in US. Secondly you said in the last paragraph if we can not protest against x,y,z we can't protest against trump. I find this hilarious. Anyway back to topic, his apparently having a go at Australians immigrants.
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  #46  
Old February 3, 2017, 03:41 AM
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Really its more likely for Americans whether people are effected,ie protest for and against.
His foreign policy is to buddy up with Russia**** off china,and **** off Europe,cosy up with Israel,and maybe **** off Australia.If he does that we will just turn to China.
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  #47  
Old February 3, 2017, 04:00 AM
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SportingBD SportingBD is offline
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My point is simple, why would someone protest something that is happening say in Bangladesh to minority people when they are living say in China, Japan, UK, US, Russia, UAE, Saudi etc? If that is the case you would find that in every country somehow minority is being oppressed in different ways, would you than say everyone that is living in different parts of the world should protest? If that was the case than the world would have protested for the Rhoinga Muslims? But no not everyone does. Here the protest is big becuase Trump has made a Muslim-Christian thing, and you would know it somehow has impact on all/most Muslims, as they feel like how you can label nearly everyone bad for some bad people. I am all for protesting for minority if it's in my country in U.K. and if it's for a good cause, it depends on people individual prospective and understanding of the reason for protest etc.
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  #48  
Old February 3, 2017, 04:06 AM
brockley brockley is offline
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Hes' probably not even a christian,thats my opinion,few Presbyterians are.Many non believers in the Presbyterian church,thats if he even went.
Obama was in a church very anti evangelical,anti American,pro black.
Many uestioned his constant banging on about christians that he really wasn't one.
Just cause you go to church doesn't actually mean you believe in Jesus christ as God.
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  #49  
Old February 3, 2017, 05:38 AM
Mas_UK25 Mas_UK25 is offline
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He's c... for sure. May God cur.. trump! Hope he is out assp!!
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  #50  
Old February 3, 2017, 05:51 AM
brockley brockley is offline
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Well he showed this week he doesn't need Australia,won't take a measely 1000 refugees,and hung up on our Prome minister.
**** him,let someone else fight America's battles.
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