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  #1  
Old October 31, 2017, 10:50 PM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Default 'Will summon coach if needed'-Papon

http://www.thedailystar.net/sports/b...needed-1484548

http://www.newagebd.net/article/2735...h-if-necessary

Wonder what he means when he says "If Needed", or "If Necessary"

The coach should have flown directly to Dhaka to give an explanation of what happened. Mind you he hasnt given a single press conference either.

Time for Papon to get tough. This "If Needed" attitude wont do. He needs to answer for the failure of the tour. Secondly the coach (Also selector) should be here during BPL to keep an eye on players.

Disappointing, have a feeling this miserable showing in S Africa will be slowly swept under the rug or disappear behind the curtains of BPL. But regardless of BPL, they should have had a strong meeting with the coach, captains and asked for an answer/explanation over what went wrong.

Wrong move BCB!
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  #2  
Old November 1, 2017, 11:02 AM
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Totally agree - Papon should not have authorized Hathuru's vacation without first explaining the disaster in SA. I get the impression Papon himself is pretty intimidated by Hathuru's personality and trying to avoid confronting the coach as long he can.
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  #3  
Old November 1, 2017, 12:24 PM
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কত ছুটি কাটান হাথুরু?
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২০১৪ সালের জুন থেকে ২০১৬ সালের জুন—প্রথম চুক্তিতে (দুই বছরের) বছরে ৪০ দিন ছুটি পাওয়ার কথা ছিল তাঁর। অথচ তিনি দুই বছরে ছুটি কাটিয়েছিলেন ২২০ দিন! গত বছরের জুনে বিসিবির সঙ্গে চুক্তি নবায়ন হয়েছে তাঁর। বাংলাদেশ দলের প্রধান কোচের দায়িত্বে হাথুরু আছেন ২০১৯ বিশ্বকাপ পর্যন্ত। নতুন চুক্তিতেও যে তাঁর ছুটিছাটার বিষয়ে খুব একটা পরিবর্তন হয়নি, সেটি বোঝা গেল বিসিবির প্রধান নির্বাহী নিজাম উদ্দিন চৌধুরীর কথায়, ‘নির্দিষ্ট নিয়ম মেনেই তাঁকে ছুটি দেওয়া হয়েছে। আর দশটা চাকরির সঙ্গে চুক্তিবদ্ধ কোচদের চাকরি মেলানো যাবে না। তাঁরা কিন্তু অন্য চাকরির মতো সাপ্তাহিক ছুটি পান না। তবে সবকিছুই পরিস্থিতির ওপর নির্ভর করে। ৪০ দিন ছুটি পাওয়াটা হচ্ছে একটা বিশেষ মানদণ্ড। সেভাবেই তাকে ছুটি দেওয়া হয়েছে। প্রয়োজন অনুযায়ী সবকিছু হয়।’

হাথুরুর ছুটি নিয়ে বিসিবি সভাপতিও প্রায় একই কথা বললেন, ‘পরিকল্পনার বাইরে তার ছুটি থাকে না। তার সঙ্গে আমাদের একটা সূচি আছে। সে পেশাদার। সূচি অনুযায়ী যখন তার ছুটিতে যাওয়া দরকার, সে তখনই ছুটিতে যায়। যখন এখানে থাকার কথা দরকার সে থাকে।’

পারিবারিক প্রয়োজনে কিংবা কোনো সফর বা সিরিজ শেষে ক্লান্তি দূর করতে কোচ ছুটি নিতেই পারেন। প্রশ্নটা উঠছে প্রয়োজনের অতিরিক্ত ছুটি কাটানো নিয়ে। গত ১৬ মাসে হাথুরুসিংহে ছুটি কাটিয়েছেন প্রায় ১৫০ দিন! এই সময়ে তাঁর ৬০ দিনের বেশি ছুটি পাওনা থাকার কথা নয়।

কোনো সিরিজ বা টুর্নামেন্টে কী ভুল হলো, কোথায় আরও উন্নতি করার দরকার, সেটি নিয়ে কাজ করার সেরা সুযোগ বিরতিতেই। বাংলাদেশ দল যখনই এমন লম্বা বিরতি পায়, বেশির ভাগ সময়ই কোচ থাকেন ছুটিতে।

গত সেপ্টেম্বরে অস্ট্রেলিয়ার বিপক্ষে চট্টগ্রাম টেস্টের পর মাত্র এক দিন বাংলাদেশে ছিলেন হাথুরু। দক্ষিণ আফ্রিকা সফরের দল নিয়ে বিসিবি সভাপতির সঙ্গে সভা করেই উড়াল দিয়েছিলেন সিডনিতে। অথচ এই সময় কোর্টনি ওয়ালশকে দেখা গেছে জাতীয় দল ও জাতীয় দলের বাইরে থাকা বোলারদের নিয়ে কাজ করতে। দক্ষিণ আফ্রিকা সফরটা কেন এত বাজে হলো, সেটির ময়নাতদন্তের জন্যও তো কোচের ছুটিটা নেওয়া উচিত ছিল আরও কয়েক দিন পর। বিপিএল শুরু হচ্ছে ৪ নভেম্বর। ফ্র্যাঞ্চাইজি টি-টোয়েন্টি লিগের কয়েকটি ম্যাচ দেখলেও তো শিষ্যদের ভুল-ত্রুটিগুলো চোখে পড়ত তাঁর। এত ছুটি নিয়ে জাতীয় দল নির্বাচনে তিনি শেষ পর্যন্ত কীভাবে ছুরি-কাঁচি চালাতে পারেন, সেটাই তো বড় এক রহস্য।
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  #4  
Old November 1, 2017, 12:45 PM
Roy_1 Roy_1 is offline
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Get a deshi coach guys you are paying him more than he deserves.
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  #5  
Old November 1, 2017, 12:50 PM
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IPL actually making it hard to find a good coach. Guys like Mahela and Moody still make more than Hathuru with their seasonal jobs.

But, yeah, there is no reason we can't find a decent coach who will invest more time in the team. We don't really need a high profile coach, more in need of someone who will help players overcome their basic flaws.
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  #6  
Old November 1, 2017, 06:00 PM
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Hathuru and Streak were both low profile appointees in 2014. All coaches take vacay time...BD is not as hospitalable for foreigners I suppose.

Problem is his methodology. I suspect its rubbing off on players the wrong way, seniors and juniors.

It was said Hathuru/Streak was the reason for our success in 2015-2017. So what happened now? Its not the coaching 90% of the time...its the players. Players have lost their drive and since we can't fire all of the players at once, you have to ditch the coach, selectors, managers.
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  #7  
Old November 1, 2017, 06:41 PM
5tonne 5tonne is offline
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Wow. Between 2014 to 2016 he was granted 220 days of leave while his contract permitted him 40 days. And in last 16 months he has taken 150 days while his contract allowed him 60 days. Is this generous or not? Is he a part time coach or full time? Is he here only to be the coach during a series? When does he work with players then? (reminds me of sport journalist Ariful Islam Roney's fb post where he mentioned Hathuru declines to work with individuals on their weaknesses, he just wants a ready-made product as if we are a top of the rank test nation). I don't know if even Darren Lehman (head coach of a world cup winning, ashes winning, no1 ranking reaching in test and Odi team) or any other head coach enjoys that sort of leave fest. Streak was contracted to provide his services for 500 days in two years period. I wonder if Hathuru should have similar contractual obligation.
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  #8  
Old November 1, 2017, 07:13 PM
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We are better off finding someone who will put in more time. Its not like Haturi is under paid so no need to play all nice with him. If we had a schedule as dense as someone else like Sri Lanka, he wouldnt get this much vacation. Rather then allocating some time during the break for training, he spends it in holliday. During a series, you practice what you already have mastered, not develop or improve. Thats why players like Soumya, Shabbir arent learning from their mistakes
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  #9  
Old November 1, 2017, 07:23 PM
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Part of the problem is also with BCB. I remember how frustrated McInnes was in his last stint, for not having access to players during domestics. Gordon Greenidge also used to complain not having access to players even before a critical series.

Every break players get, BCB force them to play in domestics while they need to work on skill training. National players or even HP players only should participate in domestics when it benefits them (as prep for international matches), not to benefit clubs owned by BCB directors. In Australia or England, you see national players participating in domestics every now and then, not for matches after matches.
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  #10  
Old November 1, 2017, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Part of the problem is also with BCB. I remember how frustrated McInnes was in his last stint, for not having access to players during domestics. Gordon Greenidge also used to complain not having access to players even before a critical series.

Every break players get, BCB force them to play in domestics while they need to work on skill training. National players or even HP players only should participate in domestics when it benefits them (as prep for international matches), not to benefit clubs owned by BCB directors. In Australia or England, you see national players participating in domestics every now and then, not for matches after matches.
I dont know what u are taking about because I cant remember the last time Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq, Riyad, Taskin, Fizz, Soumya played NCL, BCL If anything they should be playing MORE domestic cricket where you can afford to experiment. Even if our players play full domestics and international cricket, there is ample time for them to train and participate in camps. We have the most easy schedule among all top 8 countries. Time shouldnt be an issue and playing short competitions like DPL, BPL shouldnt be used as an excuse for not training. Guys like Mitchel Starc plays domestic on every opportunity he gets and we are complaining because Mustafiz played like 2 NCL matches in last 2 years? Really?
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:06 PM
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^^ Shakib-Tamim don't play in NCL-BCL because those leagues are deliberately scheduled when the national team is busy. Whenever they get down time, BCB directors slot in DPL. It should not have been an issue, it's not like players play everyday when the league is on. But for some reason, both Greenidge and McInnes were barred from having access to players during the league.

Same goes for BPL, though I understand BPL schedule is much more crammed.
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:30 PM
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And as for Starc, you can see Australian domestic matches are well spread out. He needs those matches as part of his rehab. But I highly doubt he would participate in domestics as frequently once he starts playing for the national team again.
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:58 PM
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Another example of how club vs national team conflict hurt us - Taskin and A Sunny both supposed to work on their actions during last year DPL. Taskin played the league with his faulty action, got wickets for his team. Sunny, on the other hand, resisted the pressure from his club, kept working on his action, only played few matches at the end when he felt ready. Both were cleared by ICC at the same time a year ago. Taskin had a swift return to the national team, while Sunny is a forgotten man now.
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  #14  
Old November 1, 2017, 09:48 PM
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Back to the topic - part of the problem lies with BCB for not letting Hathuru work with players during DPL or BPL. However, Hathuru maximizes his vacations even beyond that. DPL ended on June 22, but he returned to Bangladesh month and a half later on August 7.

Quote:
গত বছর মার্চে টি-টোয়েন্টি বিশ্বকাপের পর প্রায় দুই মাস ছুটি কাটিয়ে তিনি ঢাকায় ফেরেন ২০১৬ সালের ১ জুনে। ১৯ দিন পর আবার সিডনিতে চলে যান কোচ। দেড় মাসের বেশি সময় ছুটি কাটিয়ে ফেরেন ৭ আগস্ট।
Given that was during rainy season when not much outdoor activities could be conducted. But that's why we have indoor nets for! Someone like Soumya could have benefited working on his footwork during the period.
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  #15  
Old November 1, 2017, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ Shakib-Tamim don't play in NCL-BCL because those leagues are deliberately scheduled when the national team is busy. Whenever they get down time, BCB directors slot in DPL. It should not have been an issue, it's not like players play everyday when the league is on. But for some reason, both Greenidge and McInnes were barred from having access to players during the league.

Same goes for BPL, though I understand BPL schedule is much more crammed.
Why is it so important to have access to players for that 2 months (1 month DPL, 1 month BPL) when they can have em for the rest 10? I think we both know how much free time these players have outside of the franchise tournaments and international fixture
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Old November 1, 2017, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
And as for Starc, you can see Australian domestic matches are well spread out. He needs those matches as part of his rehab. But I highly doubt he would participate in domestics as frequently once he starts playing for the national team again.
man, players from professional teams still play domestics whenever they can. Its evident in English county, its evident in Ranji, its evident Aussie domestics. Players from Pakistan, New Zealand and Sri Lanka play more domestic games then our players do.
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Old November 1, 2017, 10:05 PM
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^^ I don't hear about Kohli, or even Rahane playing in Ranji. I am sure they get some downtime every now and then. I don't see our international players benefiting much playing in DPL for two straight months. BPL, I guess we will have to make way for financial reasons.

What I am trying to say is that it's not totally Hathuru's fault that he does not have access to players three months out of the year (two months in DPL, one month in BPL). But, yeah, he goes absent even beyond that.
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  #18  
Old November 1, 2017, 10:16 PM
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as far as I concerned, we had nothing in between CT and Aussie tests.. Where was Haturi? There are countless instances where our players had absolutely nothing.

Whats the point in playing DPL? We play the least amount of ODIs at the moment compared to other teams. Would you rather they sit out or stay in competitive cricket?

How is our domestic cricket supposed to involve if it doesnt feature the top players of country?
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Old November 1, 2017, 10:34 PM
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^^ You're not getting the point - ultimately it's BCB's responsibility to utilize the coach, create domestic leagues that will benefit the players. They're content with a league that not helping players to improve beyond a certain point. They are happy as long the coach is there to prepare the team before start of a series.

Hathuru can do more, present them a better vision. But, ultimately, his bosses don't care for a vision, they only care when a big event comes around. They cared only for short term results, and Hathuru produced better than expected results being a seasonal coach.

Read how frustrating it was for McInnes when he tried to go above and beyond his duties, implement a long term plan - http://www.thedailystar.net/news-detail-267065
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Old November 1, 2017, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinathq
I dont know what u are taking about because I cant remember the last time Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq, Riyad, Taskin, Fizz, Soumya played NCL, BCL If anything they should be playing MORE domestic cricket where you can afford to experiment. Even if our players play full domestics and international cricket, there is ample time for them to train and participate in camps. We have the most easy schedule among all top 8 countries. Time shouldnt be an issue and playing short competitions like DPL, BPL shouldnt be used as an excuse for not training. Guys like Mitchel Starc plays domestic on every opportunity he gets and we are complaining because Mustafiz played like 2 NCL matches in last 2 years? Really?
I agree with you. There are always gap between domestic leagues. Most of the National team players don't play the first-class tournaments. They only take part in DPL. This is not the case with other teams. Even though they have much tighter schedule, national team regulars often take part in the domestic tournaments. In Australia, players work on honing their skills even during off-seasons. So they are always ready to jump into the International games.
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Old November 1, 2017, 11:02 PM
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^^ In Australia, players take responsibility for their own careers. Pretty sure they don't sit around for Lehmann to tell them what to do. In their downtime, they reach out to other coaches as well to work on their skills.

You can see same professionalism in Shakib and Mushfiq, working with Salahuddin on their own time. But for others, coaches have to chase them around

As for domestics in Australia, those matches can often be more challenging than international matches, thus totally worth playing. In our domestics in otherhand, even players, that struggle at U/19 level, often dominate.

In summary, things that work for Australia may not work for us.
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Old November 1, 2017, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ In Australia, players take responsibility for their own careers. Pretty sure they don't sit around for Lehmann to tell them what to do. In their downtime, they reach out to other coaches as well to work on their skills.

You can see same professionalism in Shakib and Mushfiq, working with Salahuddin on their own time. But for others, coaches have to chase them around

As for domestics in Australia, those matches can often be more challenging than international matches, thus totally worth playing. In our domestics in otherhand, even players, that struggle at U/19 level, often dominate.

In summary, things that work for Australia may not work for us.
So what would work for us?
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Old November 1, 2017, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinathq
So what would work for us?
Involvement from the board, having a long term vision, developing a regional based infrastructure, stop hoping some coach can bring miracle.

Won't mind to see Hathuru gone at this point. But if we want to see real improvement, it will be mistake to pin all hopes on him or the next guy.
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Old November 1, 2017, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Involvement from the board, having a long term vision, developing a regional based infrastructure, stop hoping some coach can bring miracle.

Won't mind to see Hathuru gone at this point. But if we want to see real improvement, it will be mistake to pin all hopes on him or the next guy.
And the long term vision from the board should be to prevent our players from playing domestic competition so that the coach can work with them instead?
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Old November 1, 2017, 11:41 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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^^ Long term vision should be making the domestics beneficial for international players. Short term vision should be not to overwhelm their schedule with a meaningless league, perhaps ask them to play every other match, so they will have windows to work with the coach on skill training to help them improve, help them overcome the huge gap between our domestic and international standards.
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