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  #76  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
May be he will be better suited for our U19 team than managing our national team.
I don't know, I think he's more suited to coach an associate team, preferably Afghanistan.
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  #77  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:29 PM
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Interestingly, Pybus played a key role behind Simmons' sacking. Now they are up against each other again for a job!
Quote:
Technically, Muirhead was not Simmons' boss. That was Richard Pybus, the WICB director of cricket. Simmons had mentioned in an interview that he and Pybus were not on the same page. "Relationship is a difficult word," he had said of Pybus, soon after the World T20 triumph. "He communicates via emails but he has not spoken to me since the suspension. It's sad because this is not about him or me, this is about West Indies cricket."

At last weekend's meetings, the board discussed several reports including the "Cricket Report" submitted by Pybus and the CEO's report prepared by Muirhead. Pybus' report was an overall review of cricket across the Caribbean, not limited to the West Indies teams and coaching staff.

Reiterating the lack of alignment in strategies, Muirhead said: "It has been an ongoing thing where I think Phil, in all that he has said and done, he has not aligned… the relationships were breaking down. I think he himself had ideas for a different strategic approach, notwithstanding one already having been approved and adopted by the board. I don't think he was aligned with that."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...chael-muirhead
This is another glaring example that Pybus does not work well with others. Last time he complained about too much interference from BCB to implement his own strategies, yet he would not let Simmons to implement his own strategies when Simmons was the Windies coach!
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  #78  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:31 PM
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^^You really had to dig for this. Good. Expose him!
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  #79  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:43 PM
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Some fans are clearly butt hurt over senior players for no apparent reason. The bulk of Hathurus success as a coach came from the performance of seniors guys. Senior players helped us achieve great results in the recent past. The contributions from Tamim Shakib, Mash, Ryad, Mushfiq helped us do well both in champions trophy and the last world cup. Without the senior guys performing we would have hit rock bottom long before.

The Anil Kumble style coaching works with a young group but now we have a senior group of players who played and put their bodies on the line for this team for a decade. These guys deserve respect and would demand it whether some fans like it or not. BCB needs to understand this and find a coach who will work with them instead using the threat of thappor. I hope we find somebody like Langer
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  #80  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:46 PM
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I am not so feeling confident about this one. I miss Hatura already
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  #81  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
May be he will be better suited for our U19 team than managing our national team.
He's actually a very competent coach. Did very well with Zimbabwe and Ireland. His initial phase with West Indies was good winning T20 championship, but latter part was a disaster particularly with his rivalry with the board, lack of big name players. Not that Stuart Law is doing terrific either.

He is more of a man manager-developing the side through teamwork, unity, motivation. He probably doesnt get enough credit for WI's T20 triumph, but never easy managing a team like that, so many big egoes.

So if BCB wants a task master, a strategist, or tactical genius-Simmons is not the guy.

But on the other hand he is bound to gel well with the players, develop a good relationship with them. His experience with interfering WI and Zimbabwe cricket board will also mean-there wont be any culture shocks!
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  #82  
Old December 6, 2017, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Some fans are clearly butt hurt over senior players for no apparent reason. The bulk of Hathurus success as a coach came from the performance of seniors guys. Senior players helped us achieve great results in the recent past. The contributions from Tamim Shakib, Mash, Ryad, Mushfiq helped us do well both in champions trophy and the last world cup. Without the senior guys performing we would have hit rock bottom long before.

The Anil Kumble style coaching works with a young group but now we have a senior group of players who played and put their bodies on the line for this team for a decade. These guys deserve respect and would demand it whether some fans like it or not. BCB needs to understand this and find a coach who will work with them instead using the threat of thappor. I hope we find somebody like Langer
Simmons or Marsh would be perfect in that sense.

Langer leans more towards technical coach. Which might be good in a way. Getting him would be a heck of a coup for BCB, because this guy is being backed to take over from Lehmann.
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  #83  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:00 PM
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read the whole
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...chael-muirhead

You missed some of the other sections. Reading the whole article it looks like there was a conflict between Murihead (rather than Pybus) and Simmons. In that article, Murihead mentioned mentioned that was a communication problem with Simmons. Few more sections from that article

Quote:
The decision to relieve Simmons of the job was taken by the board of directors at the quarterly WICB meeting last weekend in Dominica. It is understood the directors were asked to vote on the matter, but Muirhead would not reveal whether it was a unanimous decision to terminate Simmons' contract. "It was the board's decision. Let us leave it at that," Muirhead told ESPNcricinfo.
Quote:
Muihead: "It is a whole number of things over a period of time. I can't say it was really one thing. There is no one thing that defines what may have taken place. I think things came to a climax when a decision needed to be made."
Quote:
Reiterating the lack of alignment in strategies, Muirhead said: "It has been an ongoing thing where I think Phil, in all that he has said and done, he has not aligned… the relationships were breaking down. I think he himself had ideas for a different strategic approach, notwithstanding one already having been approved and adopted by the board. I don't think he was aligned with that."
Quote:
Muirhead said he had had conversations with Simmons, and he had to intervene on quite few occasions to resolve issues.
Also when Simmons was suspended, he was suspended for his outburst in the press for his displeasure with the team selection. Rightfully or wrongfully WICB was mad at him, it looks like it has little to do with Pybus.

if this is the case, he (Simmons) will not survive with BCB too long.
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  #84  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:16 PM
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^^ As bad BCB is, I don't think they are as egoistic like WICB is (at least was) to leave out players of Bravo and Pollard's caliber. To me, Simmons' frustration and outburst to media was justified.

Also, even though BCB interfere with team management, it's still nothing at the level WICB/Pybus was interfering with Simmons.

Simmons is known as a positive-motivating coach. With few specialist coaches under him, I think he will be much better choice for us than Pybus.

The best choice will be Marsh, as Jeesh mentioned. But I will settle for Simmons if Marsh does not work out.
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  #85  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Simmons or Marsh would be perfect in that sense.

Langer leans more towards technical coach. Which might be good in a way. Getting him would be a heck of a coup for BCB, because this guy is being backed to take over from Lehmann.
We need a technical coach. We badly need the youngsters to step up and lead the batting and bowling departments so that we dont struggle like Sri Lanka after Dilshan Sanga and Jaya retired. A coach that can motivate the senior guys and improve the technical aspect of the younger guys is what we need. Langer Kirsten, Flemming or even getting Siddons back would work. Pay big money and poach one of the best in the business.
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  #86  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Some fans are clearly butt hurt over senior players for no apparent reason. The bulk of Hathurus success as a coach came from the performance of seniors guys. Senior players helped us achieve great results in the recent past. The contributions from Tamim Shakib, Mash, Ryad, Mushfiq helped us do well both in champions trophy and the last world cup. Without the senior guys performing we would have hit rock bottom long before.

The Anil Kumble style coaching works with a young group but now we have a senior group of players who played and put their bodies on the line for this team for a decade. These guys deserve respect and would demand it whether some fans like it or not. BCB needs to understand this and find a coach who will work with them instead using the threat of thappor. I hope we find somebody like Langer
Few points:

1. When a team fails like SA series, ususally there are more reasons than one and there are more culprits than one.

2. Disciplinarian doesnt mean slapping the senior players, that not how you discipline a player. Nor does it mean you need army bootcamp.

3. It is well documented in the past some of our players (in the national team) are lazy and either skipped or tried to skip practice. It is also well documented in the past that our senior players came unfit and with a bhuri in training camp in the past.

4. Nobody denying the past contribution of the senior players. They should be honored and be part of our history. that does mean village politics should be allowed in the current team, nor they should expect free rides in the national team.

5. But if you need to get to the next level, status que is noit enough. You need more from the playing 11 and that includes senior players.

6. Mushfiq's behavior is unacceptable. He is no longer a teenager. He need to grow up or let other take his role. There is no crying in cricket... specially when you are a senior and in the leadership role.

7. National team is not the place for baby sitting. If you still not tough enough after playing so may years in this level, may be its time to quit.

8. There is no substitute for team discipline. When senior players cannot enforce team unity and discipline themselves in the locker room, the the coach need to enforce discipline.
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  #87  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:23 PM
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I don't know why people are talking about siddon. Bringing him as a batting coach is ok, but he is a known failure as a head coach. There is reason, why he was never offered the job and why still he never got a head coaching job offer from anybody.

Siddon as head coach will be another disaster.
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  #88  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ As bad BCB is, I don't think they are as egoistic like WICB is (at least was) to leave out players of Bravo and Pollard's caliber. To me, Simmons' frustration and outburst to media was justified.

Also, even though BCB interfere with team management, it's still nothing at the level WICB/Pybus was interfering with Simmons.

Simmons is known as a positive-motivating coach. With few specialist coaches under him, I think he will be much better choice for us than Pybus.

The best choice will be Marsh, as Jeesh mentioned. But I will settle for Simmons if Marsh does not work out.
Your concern about Pybus is very valid. But I don't know why your are trying to make a link as if Pybus is the reason for the conflict between WICB and Simmons. I read that article, its looks like the conflict was more between Muirhead and Simmons. Aslo I read articles about Simmons suspension.

I also think Marsh will be better head coach than Pybus. But does he really want it? He may not show up. Papon didn't even mentioned his name.

btw I don't know about Simmons much, I need to know more about him before making my opinion.
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  #89  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Your concern about Pybus is very valid. But I don't know why your are trying to make a link as if Pybus is the reason for the conflict between WICB and Simmons. I read that article, its looks like the conflict was more between Muirhead and Simmons. Aslo I read articles about Simmons suspension.
Let me break it down for you-

1) Pybus was the direct boss of Simmons, not Muirhead. As per Simmons, he did poorly to communicate with him.

2) The strategy that Muirhead was so hell bent on implementing was developed by Pybus.

I am not holding Pybus solely responsible for the mess that WICB was in 2014-16. But he did play a large role in it from what I understand (fyi - not saying this based on this one article only).
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  #90  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^Let me break it down for you-

1) Pybus was the direct boss of Simmons, not Muirhead. As per Simmons, he did poorly to communicate with him.

2) The strategy that Muirhead was so hell bent on implementing was developed by Pybus.

I am not holding Pybus solely responsible for the mess that WICB was in 2014-16. But he did play a large role in it from what I understand (fyi - not saying this based on this one article only).
1) Yes Pybus was his direct boss. But reading that article it looks like Muirhead (boss's boss) was very much involved and take ownership of that decision. I get the feeling that: When your boss's boss get mad about you , your boss is not going to save you.

2. yes good or bad Pybus somehow sold the strategy to WICB. Now that becomes their official strategy, regardless who ever planned it. looks like Simmons was not aligned with the strategy (as claimed by Muirhead). Now if I were Simmons, what do i do if I see some gap in the strategy? I go to WICB and try to convince WICB with my ideas. Did he do that? I don't know. It looks like Simmons need to to take some blame for the communication gap.

So yes Pybus has his own problems. But atleast it doesn't look like (from that article) that he was the problem in this case. Also looks like unlike Simmons, atleast he can sell his ideas to upper management.
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  #91  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:53 PM
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^^ Yep, Pybus is apparently pretty good at that, selling ideas. It did not work for WICB though, and he eventually lost his job.

I rather have Simmons who brought results. He prolly would have done fine if not for so much interference from the board (again, nothing comparable to what BCB have done so far).
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  #92  
Old December 6, 2017, 11:07 PM
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Daily Star today mentions Marsh, also says BCB want him, but also realize he will be a difficult option.

Worthwhile keeping in mind Marsh has not been coaching since 2011-12. This could work against him.
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  #93  
Old December 6, 2017, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
^for strict discipline we have Papon khalu.
We need a ciach who can apply molom to the wound from Papon khaluji's bet/chabuk.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)
Papon is a chalu public.

He rather wants to be the good cop in "good cop bad cop" scenario. He rather have his head coach be the bad cop.
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  #94  
Old December 6, 2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Some fans are clearly butt hurt over senior players for no apparent reason. The bulk of Hathurus success as a coach came from the performance of seniors guys. Senior players helped us achieve great results in the recent past. The contributions from Tamim Shakib, Mash, Ryad, Mushfiq helped us do well both in champions trophy and the last world cup. Without the senior guys performing we would have hit rock bottom long before.

The Anil Kumble style coaching works with a young group but now we have a senior group of players who played and put their bodies on the line for this team for a decade. These guys deserve respect and would demand it whether some fans like it or not. BCB needs to understand this and find a coach who will work with them instead using the threat of thappor. I hope we find somebody like Langer
Well said.

What we need someone like siddons who will help us to create next bunch of Tamim-shakib-mushy-riyad.

Haturi for all his success, did jackshit on that aspect.

But no. We are after our senior players. Let the team run by poser shabbir.
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  #95  
Old December 7, 2017, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Some fans are clearly butt hurt over senior players for no apparent reason. The bulk of Hathurus success as a coach came from the performance of seniors guys. Senior players helped us achieve great results in the recent past. The contributions from Tamim Shakib, Mash, Ryad, Mushfiq helped us do well both in champions trophy and the last world cup. Without the senior guys performing we would have hit rock bottom long before.

The Anil Kumble style coaching works with a young group but now we have a senior group of players who played and put their bodies on the line for this team for a decade. These guys deserve respect and would demand it whether some fans like it or not. BCB needs to understand this and find a coach who will work with them instead using the threat of thappor. I hope we find somebody like Langer
Spot on. Just have to hope a new coach fits this requirement.
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  #96  
Old December 7, 2017, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Few points:

1. When a team fails like SA series, ususally there are more reasons than one and there are more culprits than one.
Then why are you hell bent over one issue when there is multiple problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
2. Disciplinarian doesnt mean slapping the senior players, that not how you discipline a player. Nor does it mean you need army bootcamp.
No Problem there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
3. It is well documented in the past some of our players (in the national team) are lazy and either skipped or tried to skip practice. It is also well documented in the past that our senior players came unfit and with a bhuri in training camp in the past.
Are you taking about recent past or pre 2010? If anything, our physicians and trainer all they did praise our seniors for taking care of their fitness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
4. Nobody denying the past contribution of the senior players. They should be honored and be part of our history. that does mean village politics should be allowed in the current team, nor they should expect free rides in the national team.
But its okay when coach does it right? Or when young player gets free ride when they have done absolutely nothing to justify their inclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
5. But if you need to get to the next level, status que is noit enough. You need more from the playing 11 and that includes senior players.
That also induces junior players. What have they done recently tell me again. when the last time they actually stepped up and lead our team from front? The last time someone did was Somuya and mustafiz. That too in 2015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
6. Mushfiq's behavior is unacceptable. He is no longer a teenager. He need to grow up or let other take his role. There is no crying in cricket... specially when you are a senior and in the leadership role.
He wanted to quit test captaincy too. Remember? It was BCB who wanted him to continue. And nobody stopped BCB to remove him from the post since then. Or thats his fault too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
7. National team is not the place for baby sitting. If you still not tough enough after playing so may years in this level, may be its time to quit.
All the recent success that we enjoyed in the last few years, most of them if not all came because of our senior players. So what exactly are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
8. There is no substitute for team discipline. When senior players cannot enforce team unity and discipline themselves in the locker room, the the coach need to enforce discipline.
Oh. yeah. Haturi was big fan of discipline and policy. Sticking his head in selection when he doesn't have any clue whats going on, undermining authority, Ignoring anyone but our president, Taking advantage of his close relationship with Papon to spend 90% his time on vacation.

Our manager Chacha? He was caught in casino during World cup along with several other young players. During our recent SA tour something similar happened. Who was this time again? Young players.

yeah. The problem lies with our seniors.
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  #97  
Old December 7, 2017, 01:40 AM
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Make Siddons the academy coach or under 19 coach if we need to develop new batting talents. I don't see any other use for him.

Also, I am not very excited about any of the names that have come up as our potential HC. Let's hope Papon makes the right decision.
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  #98  
Old December 7, 2017, 07:17 AM
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Pybus and Walsh. What a deadly combo. Will struggle to beat North Korea womens XI.
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  #99  
Old December 7, 2017, 07:40 AM
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Well deadline is 10 Dec. Clock is ticking. I dont think BCB should rush in to make a decision as no coach can miraculously do anything for the upcoming Sri Lanka.
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  #100  
Old December 7, 2017, 03:32 PM
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