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  #1  
Old May 21, 2004, 08:50 AM
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mahbubH mahbubH is offline
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Default Whatmore effect

The following is copied from here
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The Whatmore effect

Bangladesh lost all three one-day internationals on their current tour to the West Indies, but they did their reputation no harm, nearly pulling off a rare win in the first game, which they eventually lost by one wicket. It wasn't the first time Bangladesh had been pipped at the post either: at Multan in 2003 they came agonisingly close to pulling off their maiden Test win, only to be denied by an amazing innings by Inzamam-ul-Haq.

Both those near-misses came with a new coach at the helm. Dav Whatmore may not have significantly altered Bangladesh's win-loss record yet, but he has brought about a noticeable improvement in attitude, discipline and work ethics the batsmen at least attempt to spend longer periods at the crease, and the bowlers and fielders realise the value of keeping the runs in check even when wickets are tough to eke out.

In the nine Tests since Whatmore took charge, Bangladesh have batted, on an average, 72 overs per Test innings: in the pre-Whatmore era, that figure was 65. The opposition batsmen have found the going slightly tougher too, scoring just 43 runs per wicket, a drop of 15 runs from the pre-Whatmore period. Bangladesh will unquestionably be the underdogs in the Test series, which starts on May 28 in St Lucia, but if West Indies continue to perform as listlessly as they have in the last few years, expect Habibul Bashar and his team to cause a few surprises.

Pre Whatmore ... During Whatmore's reign
B'desh overs per inng 65 ... 72
Dismissing opposition 7/25 (28%) ... 6/15 (40%)
B'desh avg runs/wkt 18.50 ... 21.20
Opposition avg runs/wkt 58.27 ... 43.08
Opposition scoring rate 3.68 .... 3.16
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  #2  
Old May 21, 2004, 09:15 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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Nice stats previously unheard of! Most importantly, he continues to bring more respectability for the tigers. That's why we are begining to learn more about complacency, writing offs, taking no chances etc.
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  #3  
Old May 21, 2004, 10:51 AM
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mahbubH mahbubH is offline
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Bowling improves more than Batting durin Whatmore's first year.



[Edited on 21-5-2004 by sports_fan_bd]
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  #4  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:02 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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This echoes Whatmore's comments in the DS interview, that it is easier to "train" bowlers to improve - fewer variables to work on, less immediacy in decision making, easier to identify and fix problems.

I think, we have reached a plateau in our "upword mobility" and the current block seems to be batting. It is more than an issue of technique or style - it is more mental and psychological and may take some time to work on.

A batsman has to make decisions in almost zero-time as the ball is coming in. Many variables to consider here:

What kind of bowler
What was his run up like
How did seem to bowl this current delivery
What were the previous balls like
What seems to be the trajectory of the ball
Is it swinging?
What is the pitch like, especially where the ball may pitch
What is my team's current status
Where are the fielders
and so on and so on
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  #5  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:11 AM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Very Nice stat.

Some more digging of the above stats:

Pre Whatmore ... During Whatmore's reign
B'desh overs per inng 65 ... 72 (Increse of 11%)
Dismissing opposition 7/25 (28%) ... 6/15 (40%) (Increase of 43%)
B'desh avg runs/wkt 18.50 ... 21.20 (Increase of 15%)
Opposition avg runs/wkt 58.27 ... 43.08 (Decrease of 26%)
Opposition scoring rate 3.68 .... 3.16 (Decrease of 14%)
Net Avg runs runs/Wkt -39.23 ... -21.12 (We have travelled 46% of the way to become a mid-level team):
This "net runs/wkt increase of 18.11" is a great indicator of our journey in the DW era. This means if we could increase it by another 21.12, we could win just as many games as we would lose. (Not just one win). Can someone dig out the last two years stats for some of the bottom dwellers? I don't believe we have to travel long to catch them with this rate of improvement.
Do you think the improvement curve will get steeper now than it was in the last year? One school of thought would be that we have crossed the mental hurdle already and despite the poor batting performance the team believes it can win. The bowling and fielding ooze confidence. When the batting clicks (although lacking talent) we could just about take any team. Therefore, the harder (mental) part is done and it will be an easier climb in the future. The other school of thought would be that we have come just about as far as we can with our talent level.
What do you think.

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  #6  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:12 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Sounds like with a little bit more statistical digging, we have the possibility of a very nice article.
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  #7  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:21 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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A sure gold mine to put it that way. Dr. Z would be the best person to decorate the skeleton IMHO. Graphs, curves and pies! Would be a nice thing ponder upon even with continious defeats.
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  #8  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:29 AM
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mahbubH mahbubH is offline
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From the stands it seems BD batsmen do not use their head as much as the BD bowlers ... but my impression was it should be other way around. Our batsmen need to know the value of their wickets and how it is related to the BD fans all over the world!
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  #9  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:29 AM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Do you know how we can make up those 21 runs/Wkt? (Even if our bowling and fielding have reached close to plateau)

All our batsman have to start scoring twice as many runs as they do now.
(Which means for most of them its Just a couple of runs.)

Please feel free to use my analyses in your article.

[Edited on 21-5-2004 by pagol-chagol]
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  #10  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:36 AM
SS SS is offline
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ok plain simple explanation...
how the h'll batsmen will use their
heads all they think about getting out
before lunch time and EAT..yummy
and also go back home as early as possible becuz of they r missing their
families...as one time their family was with
them they batted good!!!
I think Whatmore is leaving. I bet he won't renew his contract because of these
irresponsible batsmen.
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  #11  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:42 AM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Paki under 19 team is so talented that I can't blame DW if he wants to go there. Wouldn't you go too?
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  #12  
Old May 21, 2004, 11:44 AM
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mahbubH mahbubH is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pagol-chagol
Paki under 19 team is so talented that I can't blame DW if he wants to go there. Wouldn't you go too?
:P
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  #13  
Old May 21, 2004, 12:26 PM
SS SS is offline
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yea i will..
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  #14  
Old May 21, 2004, 02:09 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Default But what is Dav himself thinking??

yes we all can see how much in every way the team is improving..

untill very recently, Whatmore himself had also been saying words of praise for the guys... and even us, the fans, would sometimes be thinking tht maybe we are lil bit too hard on they team sometimes... posing too much expectations..

But hei... look at what DAV himself is saying right now.. immediately after the ODI series in WI.

Well he is actually pushing the team right now.. and in his opinion... the time for mere 'improvements' & 'tough performances' is OVER!!

IT'S TIME FOR REAL VICTORIES !!!

n he said that the team will be put into some really tough training sessions immediately after the WI tour ends!! (my o my.. is he angry?!!)
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  #15  
Old May 21, 2004, 02:26 PM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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russel! Why are you repeating the article that has already been posted at the top of this thread?

[speaking as moderator ]
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  #16  
Old May 21, 2004, 02:28 PM
rassel rassel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pompous
russel! Why are you repeating the article that has already been posted at the top of this thread?

[speaking as moderator ]
my bad! went blind for a while!
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  #17  
Old May 21, 2004, 02:31 PM
rassel rassel is offline
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To the left -Insult affecting my concentration!:embaressed:
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  #18  
Old May 22, 2004, 06:55 AM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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What were the approximate terms of the coaches, ie, the test series played during their tenure ? Whatmore started with the Australian series. What about Kamal and Barlow ( & Greenidge ?? )
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  #19  
Old May 23, 2004, 12:36 PM
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Default DW

It is great to see the stats on Dav's work to date. It gives you all an indication of the step by step nature that is required for us to be really competitive over a period of time. Of course we all want to win straight away, but it simply does not happen that way, when you are thrust into a new level of competition.

Some of this information needs to be made available to the players. For the bowers, it is positive reinforcement that what they are doing is working, at the moment, until batsmen round the world, know more of our bowlers, this will continue to work for a while. As for our batsmen, if they can set themselves small goals, get through the first 20 or 30 balls, regardless of score, the longer you are in the easier it is, aim to to bat for 10 or 20% longer than what they do now, that would be a good start. Once achieved aim for the next step on the ladder and so on.

When people climb Everest, they don't take a running jump and hope to land on top, so we can not expect our team to do that. We can however expect them to keep moving up the hill, and not stand still for too long. If there are players who are not moving forward, then maybe we need to find some that will.

keep up the good work Dav, it is a tough job, but some of the signs are good.
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  #20  
Old May 23, 2004, 01:40 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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Default Bangladesh 4/3

OK, Bangladesh is 4/3 in reply to 319/5 dec in the practise match. Haven't followed this game but this sounds familiar.

Should Whatmore just commit suicide?
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  #21  
Old May 24, 2004, 04:33 AM
crickipagol crickipagol is offline
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Default We know, who we are!

We the fans certainly know what our players made of. But DW, didn't know, we are no SriLankans.

We are Bangal (or Bongo Shontan, naki Shoitan)! If any one ever worked with a SriLankan, will know what I am refering to. They are the descendants of Ravan (not derogatorily).

May be suicide DW's only way out. But from career point of view, he already comitted suicide by accepting this BD team job.
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  #22  
Old May 24, 2004, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafiq
OK, Bangladesh is 4/3 in reply to 319/5 dec in the practise match. Haven't followed this game but this sounds familiar.

Should Whatmore just commit suicide?
hopefully... 124/4 now!
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  #23  
Old May 24, 2004, 12:07 PM
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ZaKi ZaKi is offline
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& now again 124/4 to 154/9. 5 wickets gone by 30 runs
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