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  #26  
Old February 8, 2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
No point looking at ancient stats. Lets look at stats from last three years against G8-

Tamim Iqbal 2015-2018 17 31 1 1240 206 41.33 2172 57.09 2 8 1 136 13
Mushfiqur Rahim 2015-2018 17 30 2 1100 159 39.28 2378 46.25 2 5 2 120 8
Shakib Al Hasan 2015-2017 14 25 2 1065 217 46.30 1640 64.93 2 5 1 132 5
Mominul Haque 2015-2018 15 26 0 923 176 35.50 1642 56.21 2 5 3 104 5
Imrul Kayes 2015-2018 15 27 2 794 150 31.76 1574 50.44 1 3 2 102 6
Mahmudullah 2015-2018 14 24 2 757 83* 34.40 1456 51.99 0 4 1 88 5
Soumya Sarkar 2015-2017 10 19 0 558 86 29.36 964 57.88 0 4 0 76 3
Sabbir Rahman 2016-2018 11 20 2 480 66 26.66 870 55.17 0 4 4 57 6
Liton Das 2015-2018 8 12 1 372 94 33.81 606 61.38 0 3 1 53 1
Mehidy Hasan Miraz 2016-2018 12 22 4 306 51 17.00 675 45.33 0 1 1 37 3
Taijul Islam 2015-2018 13 19 3 132 16* 8.25 368 35.86 0 0 1 17 1
Shuvagata Hom 2015-2016 4 7 3 111 39 27.75 163 68.09 0 0 1 15 0
Mosaddek Hossain 2017-2018 2 4 1 104 75 34.66 251 41.43 0 1 0 11 2
Nasir Hossain 2015-2017 3 5 1 86 45 21.50 220 39.09 0 0 1 10 0


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

1) If anyone still wondering why Mushfiq is considered one of the top batsman in the current team, either he has not been following Bangladesh team closely enough or just can't overcome his own illogical personal bias.

2) Granted Imrul is a stop gap solution, but so far he has been more consistent than SS. SS' struggle in our dudhvat FC leagues does not give any hope that he will suddenly improve one day either. If we're looking for long term replacement for Imrul, it should be Liton (unburdened of the keeper gloves) or Shanto, both of whom have shown promising performances at our FC leagues and handful of HP/A-team matches they have played so far.

3) Riyad has not been a superstar in our team. But as we know, he always does enough to stay in the team. He is hardly the weakest link in the team.

4) That brings us back to the thread topic - yes, Sabbir clearly is the weakest link in our Test batting line up. It's only nepotism, ie his being buddy-buddy with seniors, I suspect is what brought him back in the team.
Like ur analysis
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  #27  
Old February 8, 2018, 12:34 PM
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We have our core player, so I don't mind one or 2 stop n gap performer,as long they perform
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  #28  
Old February 8, 2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
No point looking at ancient stats. Lets look at stats from last three years against G8-

Tamim Iqbal 2015-2018 17 31 1 1240 206 41.33 2172 57.09 2 8 1 136 13
Mushfiqur Rahim 2015-2018 17 30 2 1100 159 39.28 2378 46.25 2 5 2 120 8
Shakib Al Hasan 2015-2017 14 25 2 1065 217 46.30 1640 64.93 2 5 1 132 5
Mominul Haque 2015-2018 15 26 0 923 176 35.50 1642 56.21 2 5 3 104 5
Imrul Kayes 2015-2018 15 27 2 794 150 31.76 1574 50.44 1 3 2 102 6
Mahmudullah 2015-2018 14 24 2 757 83* 34.40 1456 51.99 0 4 1 88 5
Soumya Sarkar 2015-2017 10 19 0 558 86 29.36 964 57.88 0 4 0 76 3
Sabbir Rahman 2016-2018 11 20 2 480 66 26.66 870 55.17 0 4 4 57 6
Liton Das 2015-2018 8 12 1 372 94 33.81 606 61.38 0 3 1 53 1
Mehidy Hasan Miraz 2016-2018 12 22 4 306 51 17.00 675 45.33 0 1 1 37 3
Taijul Islam 2015-2018 13 19 3 132 16* 8.25 368 35.86 0 0 1 17 1
Shuvagata Hom 2015-2016 4 7 3 111 39 27.75 163 68.09 0 0 1 15 0
Mosaddek Hossain 2017-2018 2 4 1 104 75 34.66 251 41.43 0 1 0 11 2
Nasir Hossain 2015-2017 3 5 1 86 45 21.50 220 39.09 0 0 1 10 0


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

1) If anyone still wondering why Mushfiq is considered one of the top batsman in the current team, either he has not been following Bangladesh team closely enough or just can't overcome his own illogical personal bias.

2) Granted Imrul is a stop gap solution, but so far he has been more consistent than SS. SS' struggle in our dudhvat FC leagues does not give any hope that he will suddenly improve one day either. If we're looking for long term replacement for Imrul, it should be Liton (unburdened of the keeper gloves) or Shanto, both of whom have shown promising performances at our FC leagues and handful of HP/A-team matches they have played so far.

3) Riyad has not been a superstar in our team. But as we know, he always does enough to stay in the team. He is hardly the weakest link in the team.

4) That brings us back to the thread topic - yes, Sabbir clearly is the weakest link in our Test batting line up. It's only nepotism, ie his being buddy-buddy with seniors, I suspect is what brought him back in the team.

I see your point to look at last 3 years performance. But it only applies when you select player of same capability and use the last three years stat as a differnciator.

But sorry, we cannot just say that forget about a player's whole career and concentrate on last 1 years or 2 years..only. When you call someone the cornerstone of our batting, his (Mushfiq) whole career should be taken into consideration. You cannot just take his 30 innings out of 110 and ignore the rest of the 80 innings. If someone is that good (i.e cornerstone of our batting order), he need to backed up with his career average. Only Blind supporter of a particular player would try to do that i.e. take a partial set of stat and ignore his whole career stat.


The same is true for Imrul. When the standard is :you drop an young player like Mossadek after one bad innings ( still career average 34 after 4 innings), I think its a valid question to ask: are they following same standard for all the players or changing the standard based on different players?
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  #29  
Old February 8, 2018, 12:55 PM
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^^ Any sane person would know you can never perform at the same level for a 10-12 years period in any task at life, you either going to improve or decline. As a fan of Bangladesh cricket, I only care whose current trend shows he can perform for the team. As I said many times, I give a rat's *** about any particular player if he is not performing for the team, however handsome or talented he may look, or whatever his past record may be.

As for Mosaddek, I don't see anyone arguing here it was whimsical to drop him for one brainfart.
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  #30  
Old February 8, 2018, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ Any sane person would know you can never perform at the same level for a 10-12 years period in any task at life, you either going to improve or decline. As a fan of Bangladesh cricket I only care whose current trend shows he can perform for the team.
.
I guess we have different standard here, that's fine.

Players have ups and downs and over time law of average give the accurate picture.

When you call someone "the cornerstone of our batting", I am sorry it need to be backed up with his career stat... i.e career average ... not 25% of his career stat.
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  #31  
Old February 8, 2018, 01:09 PM
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^^ I never called anyone cornerstone of anything, never liked that kind of hero worshiping.

As for ups and downs, a 3-year period is large enough to count for those. At furthest, I would go 5 years. Anything before that, as I earlier said, is ancient irrelevant stats- not only for cricket, but anything in life.
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  #32  
Old February 8, 2018, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ I never called anyone cornerstone of anything, never liked that kind of hero worshiping.

As for ups and downs, a 3-year period is large enough to count for those. Anything before that, as I earlier said, is ancient irrelevant stats.
I don't recall who said what nor I am saying specially that you said that,but there were multiple fans over time made similar claim which is well documents in other threads.


3 year may be large enough count for some purposes. But when we talk about a particular player's career, contribution to the team, evaluation of his career, sorry to say ... you cannot ignore his stat beyond 3 years... that's not how its done anywhere in sports world.... his whole career stat need to be in the table. Whole career stick with him (the player) his whole life... he cannot just say thukku.... remove my all stat from past beyond 3 years.... that's not how it works....if he is good enough... over time he is supposed to take care of this career average.
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  #33  
Old February 8, 2018, 01:24 PM
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^^ Ok, understood, it does not work in your twisted biased world. There is no point keep arguing about this.
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  #34  
Old February 8, 2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
^^ Ok, understood, it does not work in your twisted biased world. There is no point keep arguing about this.
I am using career stat as a standard of how consistent a player is and you are arbitrarily picking up 3 years ( some one can say why not 1 year, or 2 years, or 4 years, etc) and you call me "twisted biased world".... I would urge drinks a ice cold water... take a breath and look at the mirror ... I hope you will see who is living in the " twisted biased world".


taking the whole career stat is " twisted biased world" and nick picking a subset of the whole career is not " twisted biased world"?

You are strange my friend...
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  #35  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:09 PM
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The stats have already shown that there is no basis for selecting Sabbir Rahman who averages 26 over Mosaddek who average 35 and we know Sabbir is a substandard batsman. Only a lower order slogger
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  #36  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:11 PM
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You know where our selectors live, in that twisted biased world
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  #37  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:25 PM
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even 3 years is too long.Player selection should be based on recent performance. 3 years ago, Jubair was supposed to be our main bowler in test. 3 years later, he can barely find himself a DPL team.

Last year, Riyad was kicked out and from his performance, looked like he is done and dusted. Right now he is the stand in captain of the side and performed well enough so far.

As for Shabbir, I get the feeling that Mosa wasnt very comfortable playing last match. I noticed his eye and I felt like one of his eyes didnt look ok. Playing T20 or ODI is one thing and fielding in sun for 2 straight days is another. But thats just an assumption. If he was dropped on merit and replaced by Shabbir on merit, then it is possibly the most stupid decision in the last few years. When guys like Shabbir proudly wears that white jersey ahead of hard working guys like Nafees, Tushar, Naeem... its a huge insult to talent and hard work frankly!
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  #38  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
You know where our selectors live, in that twisted biased world
Faruque suspects Nannu and Bashar are facing lots of interference from BCB high up nowadays, which may explain all those whimsical choices they're making.
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  #39  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinathq
even 3 years is too long.Player selection should be based on recent performance. 3 years ago, Jubair was supposed to be our main bowler in test. 3 years later, he can barely find himself a DPL team.
Agree. Teams like India, England, and SA prolly assess their players every three-five series. But we need a larger sample size since we play Test matches so infrequently, spread over larger gaps, thus ups and downs are more likely with our players.
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  #40  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinathq
even 3 years is too long.Player selection should be based on recent performance. 3 years ago, Jubair was supposed to be our main bowler in test. 3 years later, he can barely find himself a DPL team.

Last year, Riyad was kicked out and from his performance, looked like he is done and dusted. Right now he is the stand in captain of the side and performed well enough so far.

As for Shabbir, I get the feeling that Mosa wasnt very comfortable playing last match. I noticed his eye and I felt like one of his eyes didnt look ok. Playing T20 or ODI is one thing and fielding in sun for 2 straight days is another. But thats just an assumption. If he was dropped on merit and replaced by Shabbir on merit, then it is possibly the most stupid decision in the last few years. When guys like Shabbir proudly wears that white jersey ahead of hard working guys like Nafees, Tushar, Naeem... its a huge insult to talent and hard work frankly!

yeah that irks me a lot. We have some talents like Shanto, Nurul, Zakir, Afif, Saif Hassan all can be tried in this level or some domestic stalwarts with a wealth of experience but we tried out a guy who has spent more time mingling with woman, beating kids but actually spend time batting in the middle. The fact that Sabbir gets so much exposure for doing absolute trash is ridiculous to see. I have never seen any international cricketer get so much of a free-ride.

BCB banned shakib, one of the greater cricketers in world cricket history, for his gesture. Sabbir beat up a kid and keeps getting picked for his team over and over again.
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  #41  
Old February 8, 2018, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
I don't recall who said what nor I am saying specially that you said that,but there were multiple fans over time made similar claim which is well documents in other threads.


3 year may be large enough count for some purposes. But when we talk about a particular player's career, contribution to the team, evaluation of his career, sorry to say ... you cannot ignore his stat beyond 3 years... that's not how its done anywhere in sports world.... his whole career stat need to be in the table. Whole career stick with him (the player) his whole life... he cannot just say thukku.... remove my all stat from past beyond 3 years.... that's not how it works....if he is good enough... over time he is supposed to take care of this career average.
I'll say it, if it helps, lol.

Mushy is ONE OF THE CORNERSTONES of our batting.

Anything contrary to that is simply fake news.

At this time there are no replacements for Tamim, Shakib, Mushy, Mominul, Fizz.

Riyad has done OK and this match will really prove where he stands. He is a crisis man so dont be surprised if he bats well i this match. He fails anytime a half decent batsman is expected to cash in.

Taijul and Miraz and LKD are also looking safe or the moment.

Weak links are Imrul (no real replacement except for Shadman) and Sabbir (Musa all day everyday plus nights too).
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  #42  
Old February 8, 2018, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
No point looking at ancient stats. Lets look at stats from last three years against G8-

Tamim Iqbal 2015-2018 17 31 1 1240 206 41.33 2172 57.09 2 8 1 136 13
Mushfiqur Rahim 2015-2018 17 30 2 1100 159 39.28 2378 46.25 2 5 2 120 8
Shakib Al Hasan 2015-2017 14 25 2 1065 217 46.30 1640 64.93 2 5 1 132 5
Mominul Haque 2015-2018 15 26 0 923 176 35.50 1642 56.21 2 5 3 104 5
Imrul Kayes 2015-2018 15 27 2 794 150 31.76 1574 50.44 1 3 2 102 6
Mahmudullah 2015-2018 14 24 2 757 83* 34.40 1456 51.99 0 4 1 88 5
Soumya Sarkar 2015-2017 10 19 0 558 86 29.36 964 57.88 0 4 0 76 3
Sabbir Rahman 2016-2018 11 20 2 480 66 26.66 870 55.17 0 4 4 57 6
Liton Das 2015-2018 8 12 1 372 94 33.81 606 61.38 0 3 1 53 1
Mehidy Hasan Miraz 2016-2018 12 22 4 306 51 17.00 675 45.33 0 1 1 37 3
Taijul Islam 2015-2018 13 19 3 132 16* 8.25 368 35.86 0 0 1 17 1
Shuvagata Hom 2015-2016 4 7 3 111 39 27.75 163 68.09 0 0 1 15 0
Mosaddek Hossain 2017-2018 2 4 1 104 75 34.66 251 41.43 0 1 0 11 2
Nasir Hossain 2015-2017 3 5 1 86 45 21.50 220 39.09 0 0 1 10 0


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

1) If anyone still wondering why Mushfiq is considered one of the top batsman in the current team, either he has not been following Bangladesh team closely enough or just can't overcome his own illogical personal bias.

2) Granted Imrul is a stop gap solution, but so far he has been more consistent than SS. SS' struggle in our dudhvat FC leagues does not give any hope that he will suddenly improve one day either. If we're looking for long term replacement for Imrul, it should be Liton (unburdened of the keeper gloves) or Shanto, both of whom have shown promising performances at our FC leagues and handful of HP/A-team matches they have played so far.

3) Riyad has not been a superstar in our team. But as we know, he always does enough to stay in the team. He is hardly the weakest link in the team.

4) That brings us back to the thread topic - yes, Sabbir clearly is the weakest link in our Test batting line up. It's only nepotism, ie his being buddy-buddy with seniors, I suspect is what brought him back in the team.

The problem with this analysis is that Imrul's numbers are heavily inflated because of the Pakistan test match in Khulna. It was the sort of batting paradise where Hafeez and Tamim went for 200+ and Imrul went for 150.

If you exclude that match and look at the averages of the last 3 years, Imrul is worse than the child beater.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

One career saving innings on a fantasy pitch shouldn't mean that he gets to continue to drag this team down.
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  #43  
Old February 8, 2018, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees
The problem with this analysis is that Imrul's numbers are heavily inflated because of the Pakistan test match in Khulna. It was the sort of batting paradise where Hafeez and Tamim went for 200+ and Imrul went for 150.

If you exclude that match and look at the averages of the last 3 years, Imrul is worse than the child beater.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

One career saving innings on a fantasy pitch shouldn't mean that he gets to continue to drag this team down.
The worst part about this is that Moss has the 4th best average in the team in only 4 innings. That's the sort of start Bangladesh has rarely seen in a player. Compare that to the first 4 innings to the two biggest passengers on the team:

Moss: 34.66
Mullah: 15.00
Imrul: 6.25

It's incredible how we've persisted and stuck with complete losers and still can't find a place on the team for Moss. It's too bad he isn't friends with Seniors or banging on of their sisters.
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  #44  
Old February 8, 2018, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees
The problem with this analysis is that Imrul's numbers are heavily inflated because of the Pakistan test match in Khulna. It was the sort of batting paradise where Hafeez and Tamim went for 200+ and Imrul went for 150.

If you exclude that match and look at the averages of the last 3 years, Imrul is worse than the child beater.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

One career saving innings on a fantasy pitch shouldn't mean that he gets to continue to drag this team down.
If you're going to cherry pick like that, then you should also exclude runs on flat ZACS too. That case child beater's average will come down to 20.47, Imrul 26.56, Momin 26.35. Not saying there is any reason to be happy with Imrul, but other options are also poor. Imrul is not the weakest link as you Soumya fans make him to be.
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  #45  
Old February 8, 2018, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
If you're going to cherry pick like that, then you should also exclude runs on flat ZACS too. That case child beater's average will come down to 20.47, Imrul 26.56, Momin 26.35. Not saying there is any reason to be happy with Imrul, but other options are also poor.
As flat as ZACS is, it's nowhere close to Khulna. We dont even use Khulna anymore ffs.

Anyways, I'm not cherry picking, just looking at stats from May 2015-current, which happens to exclude the Khulna test.
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  #46  
Old February 8, 2018, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees
As flat as ZACS is, it's nowhere close to Khulna.
Not seeing any logic behind that comparison. In that Khulna match and in the last match on ZACS, teams scored 1500+ on both occasions. I will rate that Pakistan team higher than this SL team.

Quote:
We dont even use Khulna anymore ffs.
Don't think quality of the pitch has anything to do with it. BCB stopped arranging matches outside Dhaka-Chittagong because of logistical reason.
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  #47  
Old February 8, 2018, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Not seeing any logic behind that comparison. In that Khulna match and in the last match on ZACS, teams scored 1500+ on both occasions. I will rate that Pakistan team higher than this SL team.


Don't think quality of the pitch has anything to do with it. BCB stopped arranging matches outside Dhaka-Chittagong because of logistical reason.
It means ZACS is and will continue to be used for Tests. Khulna not likely, which makes a 3 year old Khulna test that much more irrelevant.

Again, all you have to do is compare stats from May 2015 onwards. Nobody is cherry picking here.
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  #48  
Old February 8, 2018, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHRAM
yeah that irks me a lot. We have some talents like Shanto, Nurul, Zakir, Afif, Saif Hassan all can be tried in this level or some domestic stalwarts with a wealth of experience but we tried out a guy who has spent more time mingling with woman, beating kids but actually spend time batting in the middle. The fact that Sabbir gets so much exposure for doing absolute trash is ridiculous to see. I have never seen any international cricketer get so much of a free-ride.

BCB banned shakib, one of the greater cricketers in world cricket history, for his gesture. Sabbir beat up a kid and keeps getting picked for his team over and over again.
Even when we ignore his trash personality, there is no merit behind this inclusion. He is banned from domestics so we dont have a few BCL matches to judge him from. His last NCL match yielded a grand score of ZERO. His Tri series performance was abysmal, his combined score in last 4 test innings is 38. He is not even an established player in this format that may be going through a rough patch and he was never a longer version player either.

Like I said, one of the worst selections in his last 10 years history. Even Tanbir Haider wouldve had some merit if he was selected
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  #49  
Old February 8, 2018, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees
The worst part about this is that Moss has the 4th best average in the team in only 4 innings. That's the sort of start Bangladesh has rarely seen in a player. Compare that to the first 4 innings to the two biggest passengers on the team:

Moss: 34.66
Mullah: 15.00
Imrul: 6.25

It's incredible how we've persisted and stuck with complete losers and still can't find a place on the team for Moss. It's too bad he isn't friends with Seniors or banging on of their sisters.
A very distasteful comment. BC has no place for comments like these. Mosaddek didnt deserve the axe but this is no way to criticize a selection. Shame on you!
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  #50  
Old February 8, 2018, 04:36 PM
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Join Date: August 27, 2007
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IMO, some people here are getting carried away with Mosaddek's stats. His only notable innings to date is that 75 in SL. We had many other players with better starts in their career (Ash, Alok) who faded away later. I like to see Mosaddek to succeed, but still have not seen enough of him to go crazy over him.

That said, still see no justification for Sabbir's inclusion.
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