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  #1  
Old August 26, 2017, 07:15 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Default Trauma and psychotherapy

Few months ago, my mother and I were getting ready for an upcoming program at an organization called Kranti (Center for Dialogue of Bangladesh) to be held in a small Bangladeshi restaurant regarding '71 genocide. I was supposed to read a statement on declaration of war and just is my nature I wanted to research as much possible beforehand. Instead genuinely curious I turned to Mom and asked her what she witnessed.

She almost poured out in one breath how লাশ would drift from Brahmaputra river and would be scattered all over the place in Mymensingh. This I really didn't know. I heard countless times how my গিয়াশ নানা, an intellectual was carried away by Pak-bahini and was brutally murdereed. But when she detailed the incident about being a young girl in her teens having to witness the utter unbearable gore of the 1971 tragedy I could see she was not in her self.

Her face grew big, so did her eyes when she recounted how her mother (my nani) would shut off the door to a room so that they (she and her siblings) wouldn't have to witness the unbearable experience. It was almost she was that small girl back at that place. She became that person.

At that instant, I immediately realized how the tragedy left an indelible impression and trauma not only in herself, but our entire past generation.

Psychotherapy is a Western creation and is both novel and foreign to our culture. Just like it is new to the Rwandans who have witnessed their share of horrific genocide, in our culture it should be a much needed resort. As mentioned in that article, they don't like to talk about it to each other.

Of course, neither do we. But we do in our own ways. We hold themes and programmes and events pertaining to that brutal incident. Just look at some of the words to describe the tragedy: "আমার ভাইয়ের রক্তে রাংগানো..." or phrases such as "রক্তাতো দেহ" and "লাশে ভরা" replete in posters and banners around August 15 or 21st February.

Is this really the image we want to bestow to our children? The underlying sentiment seems to be: "Look at the horror we suffered, and you should hear about it too."

That should never be the impetus.

True, the past generation suffered and witnessed unspeakable horror of genocide and tragedy. First step is to acknowledge it either silently within or in an age-appropriate group.

Having done that next step should be how the generation - their generation- should cope with it. That is far more important than bestowing and handing the burden of the incident to future generation simply because of "importance" factor.

Third, we need to set up either state funded medical programs for therapy coping with the trauma of '71 tragedy around the nation. I am not by any means against talking about it openly but we should be prudent about the choice of words and images that leaves imprints on the psyche of our fragile younger generation.

And it is only in the fourth stage, when a person has been healed completely (can one be healed completely? one cannot help but ask...) that it should be befell on them to impart the unspeakable history of the terror so that we never repeat the same 'mistake' twice. The last and vital step should always be from a foundation of strength and stronghold instead of the current state of affairs where it is always out of deep rooted anger, sadness, depression and violent resentment. In fact at current, we have the system completely backwards where instead of healing ourselves (the past generation that is) we make it a method to make sure all human infants are damn right aware of the incident because god forbid that they don't know "what we suffered".

The fact of the matter is, we do. We newer younger generation see the images everyday during 15, 16 and 21. We have not experienced the utter brutality, nor should we even live to that day where we have to. Although we didn't witness it firsthand, we know. We know, but the important question is: do you?

As mentioned beforehand, in our culture we really don't express and talk about our feelings and emotions and after repressing them in the shades of closet, they are manifested outwardly in violent outbursts, hacking of human corps and what not utter unspeakable brutality that gets to be perpetuated even more as more and more days progress.

This needs to be changed.
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  #2  
Old August 26, 2017, 07:53 AM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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I did not understand your post ... what is your actual point ...

1. Yes there should be mental help available fior post trauma victims

2. I disagree with on how to educate newer generation of the atrocities ... it should be as how it happened ... the newer generation should know what their forefathers did for the life they have today ..... good or bad ....

Thanks to them bangalees are not a marginalized and a deprived group in their own land .... this freedom is important ...

You sound like those idiots who say stuff like "move on" to a rape victim as that's the "right thing to do" ....
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  #3  
Old August 26, 2017, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
I did not understand your post ... what is your actual point ...

1. Yes there should be mental help available fior post trauma victims

2. I disagree with on how to educate newer generation of the atrocities ... it should be as how it happened ... the newer generation should know what their forefathers did for the life they have today ..... good or bad ....

Thanks to them bangalees are not a marginalized and a deprived group in their own land .... this freedom is important ...

You sound like those idiots who say stuff like "move on" to a rape victim as that's the "right thing to do" ....
You have a very aggressive tendency in your disagreeing posts. Please try to maintain civility. My past behavior of "jolliness" is not a surefire way for you or anyone to trample over me or any others.

Do keep this in mind in your further posts.
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  #4  
Old August 26, 2017, 10:12 AM
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@Zee
I feel that those of us who were born post 1971 are lucky we didnt have to watch the genocide happening around us or take up arms to fight the animals known as the Pakistan army. The least we could do is to have the courage to learn the true extent of happened and share the trauma pain and sacrifice of our past generation.
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  #5  
Old August 26, 2017, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
@Zee
I feel that those of us who were born post 1971 are lucky we didnt have to watch the genocide happening around us or take up arms to fight the animals known as the Pakistan army. The least we could do is to have the courage to learn the true extent of happened and share the trauma pain and sacrifice of our past generation.
I never maintained otherwise anywhere in my post. Don't be sidetracked by above user's contortion.
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  #6  
Old August 28, 2018, 01:53 PM
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We are a nation ravaged by flood, unspeakable poverty, traffic jam, cyclone, political turmoil, diseases and pollution. We got a badly dealt hand heavily on top of which a worst genocide of history of which I only got an abstract glimpse.

Therapy is a Western concept; but it's a start. I am bumping this because this deserves more viewership and attenion.

I wrote this from my heart. I will NOT let anyone deflect, gaslight, twist or put words into my mouth or change what I stand for simply out of EGO of not tolerating me just because the way I carry myself or my personal religio-political affiliations.

The fact even after being massacred, knackered, and destroyed to the hilt like falling into helicopter blades that we conquered Everest, earned Nobel and sporadic victories among numerous other achievements is a mystery, a miracle in itself if not a testament of human willpower and spirit of rising through hell and overcoming any given insurmountable obstacles.

I am proud of my countrymen and country. I hope this will snowball something into action.
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  #7  
Old August 28, 2018, 02:12 PM
tonmoy.dhaka tonmoy.dhaka is offline
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Definitely one of the worst genocide in history but sadly not recognized as such. That was not the age of social media. Journalists were prevented from documenting the worst of atrocities. The true number of dead/raped is being debated shamelessly. It is sad when I see the new generation shamelessly questioning the authenticity of the numbers and atrocities and defending the war criminals.

My father had to jump from the bus to save himself. My uncle (dad's friend) had to hid inside the bush and hear screams of his brother getting tortured and killed (for 5-6 hours).. those kind of traumatic memories stick to you forever.
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  #8  
Old August 28, 2018, 07:54 PM
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It helps 2 talk about it.
My mother died and when she died i was there,she went in2 a fit,i called 000 when she was in a fit even tho she didn't want it,had to do CPR on her and mouth 2 mouth,then the ambulance came but could not revive her.
I find 2 recount these things helps me because it helps 2 deal with the shock manner of things.
I know I did everything but the shock of such an incident,leaves me unsteady every time I hear an ambulance.
It helps anyway to talk about it,and feel better here for doing so.

No matter what country death happens the suddenness of it leaves all in shock.
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  #9  
Old August 28, 2018, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brockley
It helps 2 talk about it.
My mother died and when she died i was there,she went in2 a fit,i called 000 when she was in a fit even tho she didn't want it,had to do CPR on her and mouth 2 mouth,then the ambulance came but could not revive her.
I find 2 recount these things helps me because it helps 2 deal with the shock manner of things.
I know I did everything but the shock of such an incident,leaves me unsteady every time I hear an ambulance.
It helps anyway to talk about it,and feel better here for doing so.

No matter what country death happens the suddenness of it leaves all in shock.
It was difficult to read it. I cannot begin to imagine what you went through. I hope you found the strength to survive through this.
__________
Yes, the shock will never go away. My main point was if instead of healing ourselves if we act then it makes things messier.

Again people hangs onto every word and no doubt someone will misconstrue. But misery loves company. Suppose women who got raped are friends. They will talk to each other and it will manifest in terms - if not through- resentment, hate, bitterness, anger, revenge mindset.

But a therapist is neutral. She/he only listens to you quietly and lets you vent out your steam and let that burden of your chest. She listens non-judgmentally without fanning the flames.

Again to quote myself because people conveniently decides to ignore what I write and hear what they want they want to hear. I paste:

Quote:
The last and vital step should always be from a foundation of strength and stronghold instead of the current state of affairs where it is always out of deep rooted anger, sadness, depression and violent resentment. In fact at current, we have the system completely backwards where instead of healing ourselves (the past generation that is) we make it a method to make sure all human infants are damn right aware of the incident because god forbid that they don't know "what we suffered".
Now if you don't heal yourself- whether mental or physical (take amputee for example)- and you go out there and either run a marathon or coach someone damn right you will make things messier - either %%%%% up your OWN leg or give faulty advice.

How hard was this to understand before offensively twisting my words?

That was my point. Even though you cannot heal yourself completely, a healthy outlet is necessity instead of an already messed up environment where people are themselves stressed from day to day mundane works and stressed out from traffic jams, office works, commute and personal family/relationship problems.

Did I for once say we should be in denial or gloss over it?

When Tonmoy said his story, I listened. This is simple case of that. And of course I only got to hear snippet of it.

In our culture people don't talk. One of the farcical forum rule is "speak what you'd speak in front of parents". This is one of the dumbest rule ever. We don't speak about responsible usage of condoms to prevent STDS and safe sex, about abusing drugs, about marital preference (or if sexual orientation if it pertains) and alcohol and tons and tons of other taboo subjects. This is not a credit. A mature setting is where adults talk about any and all issues in an adult way just like our classroom in America/West. Heck for what its worth in our culture "dhonnobad" is a formal word and parents don't say "I love you". That's OKAY. I get it. It's cultural difference. In fact if you thank your parents if they give you a glass of water people might think it is a 'formal' thing and 'dhong'. Not only that we don't teach children to say NO assertively. This raises a kid insecure, non-assertive and especially in US leads to kidnapping and sexual abuses.

To keep up with the time, we need to talk. We need to talk about taboo subjects in a proper mature adult settings. That's how mature people resolves matter. And you know what? When we talk openly and in mature way, be it Bangladeshi parents, they have a more magnanimous outtake and healthy respect for you - the child.
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  #10  
Old August 29, 2018, 01:02 AM
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Took a while but got there,family and friends and lifeline.
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  #11  
Old August 29, 2018, 09:07 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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A wise man once said that the reason why we have mental illness is not because we are weak but because we have been strong for way too long.
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  #12  
Old August 29, 2018, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
And it is only in the fourth stage, when a person has been healed completely (can one be healed completely? one cannot help but ask...) that it should be befell on them to impart the unspeakable history of the terror so that we never repeat the same 'mistake' twice.
I just realized some people have kindergarten level of reading comprehension.

When I wrote 'we' I meant -and switched - from Bangladeshis to humanity and global scale.

If you don't understand something it's better you keep your mouth shut especially when you are dealing with someone who supercedes you in both intellectual and physical caliber.

Thank you.
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  #13  
Old August 29, 2018, 10:03 AM
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May I go a tangent please? (I was too small to remember anything, so the followings are countless encounters with other elders who went through this)

1) Those who fought the war, really in the War (Sohel Bhai could have verified to this - cause we know them from real close), hand to hand combat or gun battles, not worrying about their own life
2) Those who witnessed the atrocities and felt the unbearable pain
3) Those who survived

ALL groups dreamed about "Shonar Bangla." A Shonar Bangla - Free of Corruption and having general freedom. Little did they knew, in August 28, 2018, there would be a female reporter killed brutally by miscreants (Goons of the probhabshali) and no one gives a damn about it. Little did they knew there would there would be killing by the admin without trial (this and all past admins). This is not the "Shonar Bangla" they dreamed of.

To this day, few (Group 1) say, "ei jonno ki desh Shadhin korsilar" or "ei jonno ki XYZ jibon disilo" out of frustration.

"Shadinotar chetona" - maney "Ami ja bolbo tai." - Off my chest.
+++
On Topic:
The previous generation did go through trauma for certain period of time. Time heals - Therapy may be the answer, I don't know.

Our generation gets the Trauma/shock EVERY DAY when we try to watch the BD news. Constant, never ending. To the point, it has become DAL-BHAT to most of us and we conveniently either programed ourselves to overlook it or switch the channel to something else. Would therapy work on us?
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Old August 29, 2018, 10:48 AM
tonmoy.dhaka tonmoy.dhaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
May I go a tangent please? (I was too small to remember anything, so the followings are countless encounters with other elders who went through this)

1) Those who fought the war, really in the War (Sohel Bhai could have verified to this - cause we know them from real close), hand to hand combat or gun battles, not worrying about their own life
2) Those who witnessed the atrocities and felt the unbearable pain
3) Those who survived

ALL groups dreamed about "Shonar Bangla." A Shonar Bangla - Free of Corruption and having general freedom. Little did they knew, in August 28, 2018, there would be a female reporter killed brutally by miscreants (Goons of the probhabshali) and no one gives a damn about it. Little did they knew there would there would be killing by the admin without trial (this and all past admins). This is not the "Shonar Bangla" they dreamed of.

To this day, few (Group 1) say, "ei jonno ki desh Shadhin korsilar" or "ei jonno ki XYZ jibon disilo" out of frustration.

"Shadinotar chetona" - maney "Ami ja bolbo tai." - Off my chest.
+++
On Topic:
The previous generation did go through trauma for certain period of time. Time heals - Therapy may be the answer, I don't know.

Our generation gets the Trauma/shock EVERY DAY when we try to watch the BD news. Constant, never ending. To the point, it has become DAL-BHAT to most of us and we conveniently either programed ourselves to overlook it or switch the channel to something else. Would therapy work on us?

"Shonar Bangla" is an abstract concept. There are millions that fought/survived the war. They all achieved the only common goal that they sought at the time, which was to free Bangladesh from the oppression of Pakistan.

Nation building is a responsibility of all
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country - JFK "
Yes we are not corruption free , crime is rampant. Some may even say " we live under dictatorship" . All fair point. Now ask what you can do about it? How do you solve the problem? ..

Again, despite the problem mentioned above, we have achieved a lot. We are not reliant on foreign aid (2% compared to 90% during 80's), we have achieved food security despite growing population and lack of land. We have achieved tremendous feats in GDP growth, infant mortality , female participation in work force, power production etc.

Most importantly we are doing better overall economically as a country than Pakistan.

Finally on Topic, reading news should not be a reason for traumatic experience. I am sure the gentleman who opened the thread is talking about a more serious Trauma.
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  #15  
Old August 29, 2018, 11:12 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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The thing is anger is a healthy emotion. Suppression is not. If I go out and saw some scumbag call my mother a b--- or if I had a little daughter and someone slapped her, guess what? I'd go berserk.

Take this to the nth extreme when some dogs come to your house rapes your family, your mother, your daughter, your child and brutally executes them one by one in front of your very own eyes like little dogs if you had any freewill to do anything you want - sorry if I am getting graphic- but you'd take a 9inch rough serrated blade and skin them and peel their layers off like Anthony Bourdain doing artistry on an apple and you know what?... you'd even relish each and every moment and enjoy to know Cosmic Justice or God is not blind. That there is balance and order in the universe. And you won't feel remorseful damn bit.

THAT'S natural. To pretend to go on as if nothing happened or to maintain straight face and pretend everyone is healed is not. Heck if you are emotionless and stoic when someone murders your own family and butchers them in front of your house and you spiritually bypass this **** and purport and trumpet to preach forgiveness and compassion THEN YOU ARE THE SCOUNDREL!!

There is something wrong with YOU!!!

And the thing is I wasn't even alive when this happened. But when I read about genocide or for that matter how those WHITE scoundrels strapped black people against tractor wheels and rode them over or nullified existence of black people by dehumanizing them either in South African apartheid or in Holocaust stripping Jews naked.... it STILL makes my blood boil.

As it should. Naturally.

I am not a psycho.

That was the point I was coming at. We should have a healthy outlet. We need to sit either face-to-face with perpetrators or in a therapeutic setting and really ask ourselves how do we really feel about it. I know media and movies have lampooned this concept to the death: "How do you feel? I mean really feel...", but in a proper setting when we do ask this and give them FULL PERMISSION to express themselves -be it to let their inner thoughts of revenge and retribution bubble and surface to the top- that we will get a shed of light and inkling of feeling on what it finally feels like to be liberated.

And then who knows - maybe just like Amish forgiveness or like Immaculée Ilibagiza or Munyarangabo, maybe...just maybe we will at least have some closure.

And that... THAT will ultimately must emanate from a place of serenity, inner balance and STRENGTH and STRONGHOLD.

Compassion and forgiveness ain't cheap moth---------.

But what happens is that we are still at a place of victim hood. We are seething in revenge, hatred, deep seated anguish, depression, PAIN, rage and bloodlust.

And that's ENTIRELY okay, natural and perfectly and completely normal. What's not is pretending to go ahead that everything is okay which inevitably manifests via "rokte rangano" "lashe bhora" "deho deho...." images of bitter resentment and TO DENY the fact that if, should and had every chance you get that you WOULD NOT take revenge in a heartbeat - which every natural healthy individual would -is criminal.

Because then normal, Buddhahood not. If you are falsely stoic in a pretense of denial spouting forgiveness and compassion then there is something seriously and completely wrong with you if not utterly disingenuous like some liberal hippies or for that matter when Richard Gere said "We should be more forgiving and compassionate to the perpetrators of 9/11." (Then again I don't know Richard Gere. If he is genuinely strong enough to mean it instead of denial and spiritual bypassing then more power to him.)

Finally, even if Pakistanis apologized for their actions doesn't mean THEN we should forgive in an smarmy, atelmarka "acha acha" bhaab. Because then it STILL is gratifying your EGO and you are acting out of SPITE. The implications are as if since the perpetrators are masochistically writhing in pain and abusing themselves to 'make up for their actions' - metaphorically speaking- THEN you have stroked my ego and palated and satiated my thirst for revenge, THUS I forgive you. (Kinda what Democrats do when they FORCE people to show remorse and SHAME perpetrators so that they writhe in GUILT and SHAME. Actually the Democrats are more wily and surreptitious whose sentiments tend to have "yeah-I-know-you-made-mistake-but-since-we-are-such-a-saint-we-will-forgive-you-but-only-and-only-if-you-strip-naked-and-feel-completely-and-utterly-debased-see-how-good-we-are" mindset but I am way, way, wayyy off tangent and digress....)

This is still ego gratification and egoic game at play. If not utterly, entirely and absolutely stupid. Case in point - regardless of political parties- Abu Ghraib where those bastards enjoyed Muslims piling on top of each other all naked begging for pity and mercy so that the army could bask in glee.

Abused...has become the abuser.
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Last edited by Zeeshan; August 29, 2018 at 11:50 AM..
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  #16  
Old August 29, 2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka

Most importantly we are doing better overall economically as a country than Pakistan.
And that my friend is the ultimate sweet revenge. A country that is struggling and rife with terrorists with political upheaval and poor economy... that's -in my humble opinion- God's play in action. And we didn't have to do sh--.

Now you know how we feel/felt living each and every moment in perpetual fear, paranoia and no mental peace. Heck I pray to hell they get destroyed and blasted to smithereens even more by the West.
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Old August 29, 2018, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
... Now ask what you can do about it? How do you solve the problem? ..
Example: Traffic problem solve korsilo school'er chele pelera? Even for few days? Yes, korsilo. Tarpor danda pita, warrant and jail. Back to square one. Police'er gari'r fitness nai, driver nije'r license nai....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Finally on Topic, reading news should not be a reason for traumatic experience. I am sure the gentleman who opened the thread is talking about a more serious Trauma.
Shetai. Reading news and watching footage in the TV = DAL-BHAT as I have already mentioned. Tell that to the lost one's parents, children, relatives, and friends. Jar jai shudhu shei bhujey how traumatic it is.
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Old August 29, 2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Jar jai shudhu shei bhujey how traumatic it is. how traumatic it is.
Absolutely. This is why I am even reticent to comment about this topic lest I trivialize it or make it abstract. For me to pretend to know otherwise is in fact even grounds for being more offensive.

My reference point was the shishu face and chaap I saw in my Mom's eyes. At that instant, I knew how she felt and that her pain is still there in those eyes.
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