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  #1  
Old May 31, 2004, 04:10 AM
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Default How much lower can West Indies sink?

by Everard Gordon

Every time a particularly inept performance was put out by the West Indies since 1995, the entire region has bewailed it and talked of the lowest depth to which the team has sunk. Unbelievably, an even lower depth has been found on numerable occasions.

This latest, watching Bangladesh score 406 for nine wickets on the first day of the opening Test in the series at St Lucia, was the most unkindest cut of all. Not merely had Bangladesh scored their highest in Tests but, when their seventh wicket had fallen at 250, Mohammad Rafique, previous highest score 12, came to the wicket and 150 runs later he is still there, with 103 to his name. Rafique’s century came off 138 balls, breakneck speed in Test cricket even for a Brian Lara.

That says volumes about the systems in West Indies cricket - in the various territories that produce the players from which the West Indies team is selected and the process those players undergo when they are selected.

How does a player go through the various schools, age group and club tournaments to be called to trials, then get selected on his national team before being chosen to play for the West Indies and be unable to field? Fidel Edwards’ display on the first day of this match is merely the latest in the recent examples that disgrace West Indies cricket.

How does a player come through all the stages and be selected to represent the West Indies and be unable to bowl a good length and line? This in a region that so recently had the likes of Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Ambrose and Walsh - all renowned for their miserly concession of runs.

The one common denominator is the effort of the various cricket boards to promote and encourage the sport in the region.

When last has any of us seen regional cricket on local television or even heard it on radio? The various boards say they can not afford the radio fees, let alone the television fees.

If the WICB or any of its affiliates, the TTCBC, or the Barbadian, Jamaican or other territories were really interested in the development of West Indies cricket, they would have made the necessary attempts to acquire sponsorship for the broadcast of cricket, West Indian cricket in the region.

The desire of West Indies boys to be like Michael Jordan far outweighs his desire to be like Brian Lara, though Lara plays a game for which the region is famous, that provides the best opportunity to earn a decent income for any of the West Indies young men. But our sons see the broadcast and glamorizing of American sports (and other things too) on television rather than our own.

When the English counties cut the influx of foreign players to their championship, it was obvious that a substitute had to be found for the West Indies cricketers to have more cricket, more meaningful, testing cricket.

The call was for a professional league, an idea that was proposed by the late Jeff Stollmeyer more than 25 years ago but which never was taken up, is the only possible solution.

That calls for massive sponsorship and professional management of resources and logistics, as play would be moved around the Caribbean depending on the weather patterns of the region. But it must be done if the second rank of players who may soon be representing West Indies are to be up to the standard that give a coach something to work with if the region’s teams are to challenge for the supremacy that all West Indians seem to think is ours by divine right.

The professional teams that ruled the world during the late 1970’s to 1995, came out of the Packer World Series Cricket. They played hard cricket against some very professional teams and were playing for big money, if they won.

They had a performance enhancer, Dr Rudi Webster, who assisted in identifying the areas of concern and of remedying the faults, especially those that arose from psychological factors.

There was a trainer, Dennis Waight who made West Indies the fittest team ever seen in cricket and there were players whose pride in self, in representing the region demanded of themselves nothing but their best effort.

The world has learnt from their observation of the West Indies revolution and made the necessary adjustments to narrow the gap. They have gone ahead now while the West Indies has remained static, even deteriorated.

There must be a shake up in the systems in place in the Caribbean to ensure that players come through to Test level securely grounded in the basics of the game and that must be enhanced by early training by the psychological staff.

Source:Trinidad Guardian

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by reverse_swing]
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  #2  
Old April 21, 2007, 04:41 PM
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Not much than today's match. Wait and see...will be back with another vivian soon.
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  #3  
Old April 22, 2007, 08:58 AM
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sarwan has a lot to do. it won't be easy for him. and the current squad is inexperienced and young too. but lets hope for the best
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  #4  
Old April 23, 2007, 02:49 PM
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I actually see a slow steady rise of this WI team after the WC.
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  #5  
Old April 23, 2007, 03:02 PM
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If we can play them regularly, they can sink towards the 60s and we can rise towards the 70s.

(no I'm not insane)
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  #6  
Old April 23, 2007, 03:51 PM
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The main issue is not the infra structure as many of them are pointing that out (this is one of the cause but not the major one). The issue is Baseball. Their population is less than my Para/moholla (locality) at BD. The very few exceptionally talented ones are produced there goes where the money is, that is Baseball. The weakest links are left with Cricket.

The love for the game is not there. The focus has shifted to money. You wouldn't find a Lloyd nowadays, who would play the game even if he didn't get paid.

So in the future they may sink lower if the major problem is not addressed properly.
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  #7  
Old April 23, 2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
The main issue is not the infra structure as many of them are pointing that out (this is one of the cause but not the major one). The issue is Baseball. Their population is less than my Para/moholla (locality) at BD. The very few exceptionally talented ones are produced there goes where the money is, that is Baseball. The weakest links are left with Cricket.

The love for the game is not there. The focus has shifted to money. You wouldn't find a Lloyd nowadays, who would play the game even if he didn't get paid.

So in the future they may sink lower if the major problem is not addressed properly.
Give us examples of some Baseball players - who would have been a cricket player otherwise. Do you have examples - or are you just speaking from personal experience?
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  #8  
Old April 23, 2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israr
I actually see a slow steady rise of this WI team after the WC.
may I ask - why do you think so?
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  #9  
Old April 23, 2007, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
Give us examples of some Baseball players - who would have been a cricket player otherwise. Do you have examples - or are you just speaking from personal experience?
It is from experience. The talent drain begins at an early age. Dominican Republic, Porto Rico are the two biggest contributors to Major League Baseball (USA). The money in Minor leagues in US is more than what even the national team cricketers make in a year. Ofcourse Manny Ramirez makes over 22 million per year. The whole WI board can't make that much in 5 years years. In all time highest paid salary earned, there are 14 players borned in Porto Rico, Dominican Republic. manny's total income (just salaries not sponsership) to date is 126 million. Sosa's 123 Mill, Perdo Martinez 120 Mill, Carlos Delgado 103 Mill, Ivan Rodriguez 92 Mill I can go on and on.

Even in little league World series many boys (under 12) gets to show case their talent and the scouts move them to states. school becomes free ride. The Highest paid Cricket team in the World Australia can't even dream of matching these players (single) income. Let alone the sponsership money.

Which parents in sane mind would ask their kids to play cricket when Baseball provides financial security that would cover next 10 generations? Heck a minor league career can earn 10 times more of what Bravo and them make.
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Last edited by Tigers_eye; April 23, 2007 at 04:51 PM..
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Old April 23, 2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
The issue is Baseball.
and basketball
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  #11  
Old April 23, 2007, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sovik
and basketball
To some extent yes. however, it is too competitive for them to compete against the local boys (americans). Not many WI'ans have made an impact in NBA. Only Tim Duncan from Porto Rico has made it to the all stars status. I would hate to see a 7 footer Duncan coming down the bouncy pitch and bowling against Ash, Mushfiq.
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  #12  
Old April 23, 2007, 04:57 PM
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its hard to see downfall of windies, although it started long before i started watching cricket. but i am still optimistic and hoping for the best
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  #13  
Old April 24, 2007, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
To some extent yes. however, it is too competitive for them to compete against the local boys (americans). Not many WI'ans have made an impact in NBA. Only Tim Duncan from Porto Rico has made it to the all stars status. I would hate to see a 7 footer Duncan coming down the bouncy pitch and bowling against Ash, Mushfiq.
TD is from US virgin islands...do they play cricket there?

and all those baseball players are not from cricket playing WI countries...they are all latinos.
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  #14  
Old April 24, 2007, 01:19 PM
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Cricket in West Indies is a sleeping giant and I am still hopeful they can turn it around. But, the next few years of WI cricket shall reveal a lot at how they are progressing.
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  #15  
Old April 24, 2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
It is from experience. The talent drain begins at an early age. Dominican Republic, Porto Rico are the two biggest contributors to Major League Baseball (USA). The money in Minor leagues in US is more than what even the national team cricketers make in a year. Ofcourse Manny Ramirez makes over 22 million per year. The whole WI board can't make that much in 5 years years. In all time highest paid salary earned, there are 14 players borned in Porto Rico, Dominican Republic. manny's total income (just salaries not sponsership) to date is 126 million. Sosa's 123 Mill, Perdo Martinez 120 Mill, Carlos Delgado 103 Mill, Ivan Rodriguez 92 Mill I can go on and on.

Even in little league World series many boys (under 12) gets to show case their talent and the scouts move them to states. school becomes free ride. The Highest paid Cricket team in the World Australia can't even dream of matching these players (single) income. Let alone the sponsership money.

Which parents in sane mind would ask their kids to play cricket when Baseball provides financial security that would cover next 10 generations? Heck a minor league career can earn 10 times more of what Bravo and them make.

Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic etc are of Hispanic heritage - and "Spanish West Indies" are/were never big in cricket. I don't know of any cricketers that have come from the "Spanish West Indies" areas.

Cricket is played in mostly Caribbean nations with English heritage - Jamaica, Trinidad etc .

Here's a Quote from Wikipedia that shows the cultural division within West Indies.

Quote:
[edit] Historical groupings
Main article: History of the Caribbean
Most islands at some point were, or still are, colonies of European nations:

Spanish West Indies - Cuba, Hispaniola (present-day Dominican Republic, and until 1609, Haiti), Puerto Rico, Jamaica (until 1655), the Cayman Islands, Trinidad (until 1797) and Bay Islands (until 1643)

French West Indies - Anguilla (briefly), Antigua and Barbuda (briefly), Dominica (briefly), Dominican Republic (briefly), Grenada (briefly), Haiti, Montserrat (briefly), Saint Lucia (briefly), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (briefly), Sint Eustatius (briefly), St Kitts (briefly), Tobago (briefly), Saint Croix (briefly), the current French overseas départements of Martinique and Guadeloupe (including Marie-Galante, La Désirade and Les Saintes), and the current French overseas collectivities of Saint Barthelemy and Saint Martin.

British West Indies/Anglophone Caribbean - Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bay Islands, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica (from 1655), Montserrat, Saint Croix (briefly), Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago (from 1797) and the Turks and Caicos Islands

Danish West Indies - present-day United States Virgin Islands

Dutch West Indies - present-day Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, Virgin Islands, Saint Croix (briefly), Tobago and Bay Islands (briefly)

Swedish West Indies - present-day French Saint-Barthélemy.

Portuguese West Indies- present-day Barbados, known as Los Barbados in the 1500s when the Portuguese occupied the island during the same time as Brazil. However, the Portuguese abandoned Barbados in 1533, nearly a century prior to the British arrival on the island.

The mostly Spanish-controlled Caribbean in the sixteenth centuryThe British West Indies were formerly united by the United Kingdom into a West Indies Federation. The independent countries which were once a part of the B.W.I. still have a unified composite cricket team that successfully competes in test matches and one-day internationals. The West Indian cricket team includes the South American nation of Guyana, the only former British colony on that continent.

In addition, these countries share the University of the West Indies as a regional entity. The university consists of three main campuses in Jamaica, Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago, a smaller campus in the Bahamas and Resident Tutors in other contributing territories.
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  #16  
Old April 26, 2007, 04:32 PM
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Sorry Tigers Eye but you are talking complete and utter rubbish. As UserName says Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic have nothing to do with the English speaking carribean whatsoever, you may as well compare Bangladesh and Myanmar or England and Poland. Same continent but entirely differant sporting cultures. These counties have ALWAYS played baeball and NEVER played Cricket
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  #17  
Old April 26, 2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israr
Cricket in West Indies is a sleeping giant and I am still hopeful they can turn it around. But, the next few years of WI cricket shall reveal a lot at how they are progressing.
my bad luck that i didn't see their golden era. started watching cricket from 1996. since then i was praying everyday for them. i hope they will rise from the ashes and reign again
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Old April 27, 2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sovik
my bad luck that i didn't see their golden era. started watching cricket from 1996. since then i was praying everyday for them. i hope they will rise from the ashes and reign again
I started following this great game from 99, and became an ardent fan of WI after they pulled that historical win against England at Champions Trophy. It was not exactly their performance, but mainly the spirit with which they played that tournament for their people back home after West Indies islands suffered some great damage caused by destructive hurricanes. That match and its aftermath proved to me that the heart of WI is alive and still ticking, and still capable of reviving their past glory.
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  #19  
Old April 27, 2007, 06:34 PM
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West Indies players and board again at loggerheads

Another set back. damn it.
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