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  #1  
Old June 7, 2004, 11:38 PM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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Default {2004} Bangladesh defeat will cause introuduction of three tier system?

icc will now think seriously about 3 tier system

i feel icc will now seriously think about introuducing the three tier systme looking to the performance of bangladesh in this test

no win registered in 29 test, not even a brave performance so far. if this is result from a cricket crazy nation, how should they dare to allow more nations to play test cricket?
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  #2  
Old June 7, 2004, 11:54 PM
jaga jaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
icc will now think seriously about 3 tier system

i feel icc will now seriously think about introuducing the three tier systme looking to the performance of bangladesh in this test

no win registered in 29 test, not even a brave performance so far. if this is result from a cricket crazy nation, how should they dare to allow more nations to play test cricket?
Depends on who do you ask.
As a Bangladeshi I disagree with your comment that "not even a brave performance so far".

BTW Sunil where are you from?
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  #3  
Old June 8, 2004, 12:01 AM
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Nasif Nasif is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
icc will now think seriously about 3 tier system

i feel icc will now seriously think about introuducing the three tier systme looking to the performance of bangladesh in this test

no win registered in 29 test, not even a brave performance so far. if this is result from a cricket crazy nation, how should they dare to allow more nations to play test cricket?
This wont be happening. Chance of this happening is very very low. ICC will have have hard time getting 2/3 majority of full members to pass this.

On the other hand, judging Bangladesh cricket based on one innings collapse and innings defeat is just completely un-reasonable. Ground work has been done, from here all we can do is go upwards.
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  #4  
Old June 8, 2004, 12:05 AM
Saurav Saurav is offline
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A two-tier or a three-tier system simply dilutes the importance of Test cricket. Any cricketer's record should be judged against a varierty of opponents, from the best to the worst! In a three-tier system, even ordinary cricketers may end up with tremendous records just because he was playing a weak opponent. There would hardly be a way to analyse and assess the individual merits of cricketers
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  #5  
Old June 8, 2004, 12:10 AM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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it takes time to increase performance, not number of match. And given that bangladesh has test status only for four years, bd's performance is actually quite impressive. Twice bd went very close to victory (against pak and eng) and earned a draw just in this series. this loose is vastly due to lack of fast bowler for bd due to injury. WI took advantage of it and made the pitch where a team without fast bowler will not win. now, who did have better performance than bd at the early age of test status. since aus and eng started the game, there is no question of it. zim has the most glorious start of all, (and u wanna put them in second tier?) then pakistan. others, WI, SA was ok. but the rest, NZ, india and srilanka had much worse forformance than bangladesh. here, i must repeat, it times that should be take into account not number of match because match is a measurement of performance but its the ellasped time between matches that is to be used for increasing performance.
a bit off topic, when a captain like ponting talk about it, thats quite understandable. but how come ganguli talk about it, leading a country that had to go thru the worst performance for the longest time and the owner of the maximum number of test cricket related jokes?
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  #6  
Old June 8, 2004, 12:34 AM
Saurav Saurav is offline
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When did Bangladesh come close to victory against England? I have seen both the Tests and England dominated throughout (winning by 7 wickets and more than 300 runs respectively)

And we all understand that Bangladesh would be a better team in another few years, but stating that India and Sri Lanka had worse performances than Bangladesh initially is utterly ridiculous. Look at the facts and then comment.

Ganguly speaks abt the system since he feels strongly about it. He doesn't care about what 'happened', he is concerned about what is happening presently. It's not necessary that everyone should agree or disagree with every statement he makes. Jokes about India were hatched by the British colonialists and maybe you look up to them as the only objective source of opinion. Those gora sahibs may be role models for you (since you appreciate their jokes so much), other educated people can read what the actual intent behind those jokes were.

If you talk abt a certain fictitious 'worst performance for a longest time' concept, it simply proves your ignorance. India's initial performances were far superior vis-a-vis New Zealand and South Africa.
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  #7  
Old June 8, 2004, 12:35 AM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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i want to see bangladesh to emerge one of the best cricket playing nations.
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  #8  
Old June 8, 2004, 12:36 AM
jaga jaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
i want to see bangladesh to emerge one of the best cricket playing nations.
Thank you Sunil
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  #9  
Old June 8, 2004, 02:10 AM
samircreep samircreep is offline
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Saurav, you obviously were not in BNS near the close of play on the 4th day of the first test against England.Bangladesh were on the verge of taking a lead, had 5 wickets in hand and the pitch was seriously taking turn.Add to the fact that we had two quality spinners in our team who were turning the ball miles and the English batters were nervous as hell.
Even the Barmy Army supporters around me had more or less made up their minds about losing.If you don't call this a winning position, please let me know what is.Did you even bother to watch all five days and gauge the mood of both teams as opposed to watching the highlights on ESPN and reading Cricinfo's "expert commentary"?

Comparing Bangladesh's performance with that of India and SL in the initial stage, I agree, is utterly ridiculous.We've played twice as many tests in the first two years of our test history that India did in their first five.And add the fact that we don't have even a modicum of the same domestic cricket infrastructure makes any efforts to compare the initiations of these two nations ridiculous.

As far as Ganguly's comments are concerned, they are idiotic at best. People who espouse a 3-tier system smack of elitism and believe that there is something inherently 'holy' about test cricket and any effort to grant more members into the cricketing fraternity is almost sacreligious. I am not exaggerating when I say that his beliefs are tantamount to that of extremists like Lapenne who oppose any form of immigration merely to preserve the alleged sanctity of the majority culture. Kenya beating a country with such a rich cricketing tradition like India is testament alone as to the skills and potential of such 'minority' nations. At a time when football is globalized and tournaments like the WC are expanding every 4 years, cricket is receding into its elitist shell and people like Ponting and Ganguly are clamouring for us to get more parochial rather than international.

Food for thougt:would anyone have thought that south korea woul've beaten Italy in last year's cup?But then again, if Ganguly was part of FIFA, he would've been crying his eyes off at the 'sad loss of football heritage' at the hands of these minnows.
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  #10  
Old June 8, 2004, 02:12 AM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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* Against England, until the finally day collaspe it was hard to say the result, win-draw-loose, have a close look again after the day 4 play.
* "And we all understand that Bangladesh would be a better team in another few years", if u understand this, there is no more point of discussion. The stat say it took NZ 22 years and IND 20 years to get the first test win. period. We gonna achieve this within half or quater of the time. do not look at the number of matches. it was ICC's fault to schedule so much match for a new team in such a few time, specially away matches. ICC scheduling is responsible for bd performance, number of match wise. If we were given the same type of schedule and support given to other starting test playing nations, our perfomances would be much better.
* gora shahibs or same colored neighbours, doesn't matter. the relations is the same, weak and strong team. ganguli's talk is analogous to the british. if they are to be ignored, so should be ganguli. "other educated people can read what the actual intent behind those jokes were." i see the actual intention very clearly. the same as ganguli's one.
* since bangladesh is the lamb here, make an average starting performance of all starting countries and compare it with bangladesh. i don't see much difference. once again, stats can be deceiving. still tell me, whithin 4 years of test play, which country got the record of youngest test centurian? which country scored 400 on the very first innings? which countrys player carried the bat on debut?

* ganguli feels for cricket? i posted it somewhere else too, but i'll repeat here anyway. if ganguli's therory of elite cricket to be considered what we see? if a team is not performing good that team should not play the highest level of cricket. now, why not replacing "player" with "team". a batsman who is not scoring 100s on most of his matches or a bowler who is not geting 5for every now and then should not play the highest level of cricket. where will this slippary slope end?

not only all 9 country deserve to be as is, countries like kenya also deserve to be a test playing nation. after 150 years of history only 9 countries play test. why? because some "gora shahib", and latter on some other people who learned from them (ganguli namely) thinks they are super humans and cricket is not a game for humans. u need to think of spreading cricket not restricting it.
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  #11  
Old June 8, 2004, 02:57 AM
Emad03 Emad03 is offline
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Agent Smith and Sami creep

Great job man.You wrote my feelings even in a better i could explian.Now i hope Ganguli read both of your comments so that he can realize where his foot and mouth is!



[Edited on 02/08/80 by Emad03]

[Edited on 02/08/80 by Emad03]
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  #12  
Old June 8, 2004, 06:04 AM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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one thing can not be ruled-out that india have supported very much bangladesh for getting the test status. jagmohan dalmia was the real instrument behind that and due to his tireless effort, bangladesh are in the test playing group now. ganguly made his own personal comment and many more well respected persons have agreed with him. even icc also seriously taken his comment, so nobody can challenge his voice as ignorable. bangladesh is a cricket crazy nation and cricket has deep root there, still struggling very much to live upto their status. if this is the story, then what will be the story of other nations, where cricket is unknown to 90% of population. that nations are even struggling to build a team of 16 probables!!!! ganguli's reaction based on such sentiments,, not against bangladesh as i feel..............................
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  #13  
Old June 8, 2004, 06:17 AM
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yep Dalmia helped us no doubt about that but as far as I know in that ICC meeting it was Pakistan who proposed our test status officially & then other test nations supported that.
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  #14  
Old June 8, 2004, 06:22 AM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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if u recall all the ground work was done by dalmia and he has arranged everything in order to get the proposal passed. if im right, he was the icc chairman at that time.

u can also see that he is now trying to get china in action....
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  #15  
Old June 8, 2004, 06:34 AM
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fortunately he was the ICC chairman at that time. Our BCB lobbying for this & all the test nations supported us. Without that we could not achieve that.
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  #16  
Old June 8, 2004, 06:40 AM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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u believe one should get the status without making any mandatory work? yes, they did the move but it is he, who gathered the support for you. i remember all the news clippings of that time very well

u cant simply diminish his efforts in the matter

india always supported bangladesh and it was his wish that bangladesh should play first test against india. if my informations are right, all other nations have played their first test against england.
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  #17  
Old June 8, 2004, 07:22 AM
amit(a huge BD fan)
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
u believe one should get the status without making any mandatory work? yes, they did the move but it is he, who gathered the support for you. i remember all the news clippings of that time very well

u cant simply diminish his efforts in the matter

india always supported bangladesh and it was his wish that bangladesh should play first test against india. if my informations are right, all other nations have played their first test against england.
england played their 1st test v aus
pakistan and zimbabwe also played their 1st tests v india in 1952 and 1992. bangladesh is the 3rd team toplay their 1st test v india.

coming to the topic, bd dont deserve to be in the "2nd"-tier. give bd some 2 years to develop and then bd becoming capable of winning 1-2 tests here and there. maybe not series wins, but 2-1 defeats/1-1 draws willbe fine.
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  #18  
Old June 8, 2004, 10:59 AM
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How predictable! Soon as our defeat by an innings materialized, the detractors are out, singing songs of ganguly and his infinite wisdom. Its funny that there were no such comments as early as last week, after our much earned draw, while dominating most of the sessions in St.Lucia. One defeat later, they are out of the woodworks and questioning our validity to play tests once again. For Ganguly, its convenient to talk about present and not past since India is ascending now. One only needs to go back a few years, all the way to much of nineties and eighties to see India's pitiful record in test cricket. What? fifteen years it took for india to win a test series outside. Has anyone noticed New Zealands crushing loss to England inside four days? Defeats are part of the game. On average, the weaker teams will lose more often but if they are not allowed to compete with better teams, how are they going to improve? India couldn't beat the same Kiwi team at home earlier. This sinister campaign against us is nothing but elitism emanting from a few like Ganguly. We are at a stage of infancy in test cricket and we will get better better and win eventually. We are growing our infrastructure and doing all the necessary things to lead us towards a succesful cricket nation. We have the nation and the passion of the masses behind us. It won't fail. Last but not least, India under Dalmiya now has cancelled the ICC mandated tour to BD in April and instead went to pakistan prior to the election ( how ironic? where is BJP now ). Where is the so called support from our big friendly well wishing neighbor? For us to get better we must play India to learn from the current crop of great Indian batsmen.
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  #19  
Old June 8, 2004, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vv_sunil
icc will now think seriously about 3 tier system

i feel icc will now seriously think about introuducing the three tier systme looking to the performance of bangladesh in this test

no win registered in 29 test, not even a brave performance so far. if this is result from a cricket crazy nation, how should they dare to allow more nations to play test cricket?
Wel if u really do hav a good eye.. then perhaps u would hav said the opposite:
That ICC will think for a few more times before talking about it after this WI series.. because BD has shown a great strength in this series.
I'm really surprised to see u'r self contradictory comments that u want to see BD as emerging nation in cricket and again u think this series has not been an achievement in BD cricket reputation!!

A Correction for ur Coments:
"Some elitists, specially some indians, like Saurav still will shought seriously about 3 tier system"
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  #20  
Old June 8, 2004, 01:01 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Default good job, samircreep

you seemed to have shut saurav up.
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  #21  
Old June 8, 2004, 01:16 PM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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Man! you should seriously consider writing an article about the ridiculous 3-tier system for test cricket using some of the points you mentioned in your post. We need some articulate voice such as yours in this regard. Come on man! put your thoughts into an article form and U2U it to one of us moderators.

Quote:
Originally posted by samircreep
Saurav, you obviously were not in BNS near the close of play on the 4th day of the first test against England.Bangladesh were on the verge of taking a lead, had 5 wickets in hand and the pitch was seriously taking turn.Add to the fact that we had two quality spinners in our team who were turning the ball miles and the English batters were nervous as hell.
Even the Barmy Army supporters around me had more or less made up their minds about losing.If you don't call this a winning position, please let me know what is.Did you even bother to watch all five days and gauge the mood of both teams as opposed to watching the highlights on ESPN and reading Cricinfo's "expert commentary"?

Comparing Bangladesh's performance with that of India and SL in the initial stage, I agree, is utterly ridiculous.We've played twice as many tests in the first two years of our test history that India did in their first five.And add the fact that we don't have even a modicum of the same domestic cricket infrastructure makes any efforts to compare the initiations of these two nations ridiculous.

As far as Ganguly's comments are concerned, they are idiotic at best. People who espouse a 3-tier system smack of elitism and believe that there is something inherently 'holy' about test cricket and any effort to grant more members into the cricketing fraternity is almost sacreligious. I am not exaggerating when I say that his beliefs are tantamount to that of extremists like Lapenne who oppose any form of immigration merely to preserve the alleged sanctity of the majority culture. Kenya beating a country with such a rich cricketing tradition like India is testament alone as to the skills and potential of such 'minority' nations. At a time when football is globalized and tournaments like the WC are expanding every 4 years, cricket is receding into its elitist shell and people like Ponting and Ganguly are clamouring for us to get more parochial rather than international.

Food for thougt:would anyone have thought that south korea woul've beaten Italy in last year's cup?But then again, if Ganguly was part of FIFA, he would've been crying his eyes off at the 'sad loss of football heritage' at the hands of these minnows.
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  #22  
Old June 8, 2004, 02:48 PM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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--------------------------------------------------
one thing can not be ruled-out that india have supported very much bangladesh for getting the test status. jagmohan dalmia was the real instrument behind that and due to his tireless effort, bangladesh are in the test playing group now. ganguly made his own personal comment and many more well respected persons have agreed with him. even icc also seriously taken his comment, so nobody can challenge his voice as ignorable. bangladesh is a cricket crazy nation and cricket has deep root there, still struggling very much to live upto their status. if this is the story, then what will be the story of other nations, where cricket is unknown to 90% of population. that nations are even struggling to build a team of 16 probables!!!! ganguli's reaction based on such sentiments,, not against bangladesh as i feel..............................
---------------------------------------------------
Mr. vv_sunil;

The summary I get from most of your messages is that India gifted us Test Status and therefore we should be ever grateful... -
we are thankful alright. But, I also sense a condescending attitude that if it wasn't for India (i.e. Jagmohan Dalmiya) BD cricket would be nowhere since India pitched a key vote in the process of us gaining the test status; Ganguli or anyone associated with Indian cricket therefore, has the right to bring us down as wish permits. There is certainly a "God complex" in the lurk.

It is offending to anyone who loves BD cricket when you are stressing the point by indirectly hinting that it is ok for ICC to drop BD to a relegation tier with other countries not currently playing test (barring Zimbabwe).

I find it a moot point to go into argument on the scale of progress. I think the idea of a relegation tier is not a bad idea for the new countries coming into cricket. That builds a development stage for entry into test arena. What I disagree is with the point when people try to limit the number to 8 for tier 1 test nations and bring the topic of dropping BD off tier one. Ideally, in my belief, the number in tier 1 should increase by at least 1 in every 3/4 years. ICC should look into building tier 2 to bring more countries into tier 1 and not a mean to drop countries already in tier 1 to tier 2.

Mate Ian W., from "down under", has a more lucid analysis in how to go about doing this tier 1 and 2 (and perhaps 3) business. We appreciate your support for BD cricket and hope to see more constructive postings. We certainly need al the support.
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  #23  
Old June 8, 2004, 07:13 PM
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Nasif Nasif is offline
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Just to direct some attention to excellent letter written by member "ghor_jamai" before on this matter.

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...d.php?tid=5781

This thread went little down, so the link here will help us to get some views from there.
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  #24  
Old June 8, 2004, 07:19 PM
billah billah is offline
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Ghor-Jamai besh chomotkar kore kotha bole. Hat e shomoy thakle ja hoi, ghore boisha boisha..... Thanking for bringing up the "God Complex" man.
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  #25  
Old June 8, 2004, 08:37 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Like I said in another thread - if the people at the ICC have some grey stuff between their ears, they'll also consider our performance in the first test before implementing a three tier system.
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