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  #1  
Old August 1, 2004, 05:05 AM
hisidhu85143 hisidhu85143 is offline
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Default 150 million dollar aid from India

India’s 150 million dollar aid offer to modernize Bangladesh rail – an excellent political and fiscal move!
Prakash Joshi, Special Correspondent
July 23, 2004

India made an excellent move by offering $150 million aid to Bangladesh in modernizing her railway infrastructure. India today can afford it and should take the opportunity to help South Asian neighbors who traditionally look towards US and China for any such help. Indian Government also indicated that the offer has no prerequisites attached to it and does not expect Bangladesh to do anything in return.

Bangladesh Foreign Minister M. Morshed Khan said Friday that India had offered $150 million for improvement of Bangladesh's railway sector. Indian External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh made the offer during a meeting with his Bangladeshi counterpart on the sidelines of the SAARC foreign ministers meeting held July 20-21 in the Pakistani capital Islamabad, reports said. The communications ministers of the two countries would discuss and take a final decision on the offer, Khan told reporters at Dhaka's Zia International Airport on his arrival from Pakistan. He ruled out the notion that the offer was in any way linked to rail transit between the two counties. "We've addressed each other's concerns and discussed how to reduce the trade imbalance between the two countries," Khan said. He said Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh would meet Bangladesh Prime Minister Khaleda Zia on the sidelines of the BIMST-EC summit in Bangkok scheduled on July 29-30.

This will foster good will between the family of South Asian nations. Sharing economic prosperity without any apparent immediate expectations make a great power. This will produce economic prosperity for Bangladesh and in turn peace in the subcontinent.

So what do u guys say now?
Text

[Edited on 8-7-2004 by chinaman : Title changed.]
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  #2  
Old August 1, 2004, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hisidhu85143
So what do u guys say now?
... by the way... what is your point pls?!
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  #3  
Old August 1, 2004, 11:08 AM
reinausagi reinausagi is offline
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Personally I neither love, nor hate India. Politicall I've always mistrusted her morives. Not since the urine drinking Morarji Desai was PM of India, have I trusted any Indian administration in their dealings with Bangladesh. For those who do not recall, Desai actually ordered RAW to cease and desist the majority of covert and subversive activities in Bangladesh patronised in the Indira government and ratted out the Bangladeshi proxies working within Bangladesh as agents of Indian intelligence services.

If India really wants to generate trust among Bangladeshis, they should stop hogging all the riverine waters upstream, stop practicing gun-boat diplomacy when it comes to new sand dunes emerging in the bay of bengal and most of all, distance itself from perpetuating a patronising attitude towards it's neighbors. Getting rid of the Hindu chauvanist BJP government is a positive start.
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  #4  
Old August 1, 2004, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hisidhu85143
So what do u guys say now?
Text
India's neighbouring governments have always been well aware of Indo-imperialistic besiege in this south asian region. However, the constant fight of corporate capital within SAARC members will never allow India to dominate solely for its obvious historical reason.

So I say now hush up and stop showing off "dada giri"!
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  #5  
Old August 2, 2004, 12:19 AM
sageX sageX is offline
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Default To all the Bangladesh lover

150 million dollar is a lot of money. Even England pledged only 18 million. 150 million though is a lot of money it is nothing comparing to 7 billion dollar total flood damage. Now the question is what 7 billion dollar damage has to do with India?
India made the dam on the internetional river Gonga which keep the Calcutta port accesible to ship all the time. This dam hold sufficient water for the port at any given time. As a consequece flow of water in Gonga slowed significantly when it enters bangladesh. Gonga lost the river path and narrowed down signficantly due to silt deposit and lack of water during past decade. So when huge amount of snow melt in Himalayas the water eventually end up in Bangladesh as it is the biggest delta for Himalyan rivers. But river path is narrowed and not capable of running the water in the Bay of Bangal. This is a major reason Bangladesh is loosing billions of Dollar due to uncontolled flood.
So If India has true good intention towards Bangladesh they should sit with us and solve this water distribution problem to solve flooding problem permanently in both Bangladesh and India due to Ganga river. Though 150 million is a good amount it is to solve the rail line problem. This is great but this will also make sure that Indian goods flow all over Bangladesh without interruption. This is not a permanent flood solution.
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  #6  
Old August 2, 2004, 09:57 AM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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hisidhu85143;

There is no hatred. We are peace loving people. I noticed that some of the Indian fans in the past have tried to extrapolate all the negative comments against Indian cricket team to a political perspective.

On the issue of this thread, apart from my position of being neutral , there is certainly a feeling of mistrust. I have travelled to every south asian country (except Pakistan). Unfortunately, the mistrust is quite common in every single place I have visited. The truth remains that Indian bi-lateral policies with any of these countires remain far from being fair. Whether you accept that or not is a different issue.
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  #7  
Old August 2, 2004, 01:44 PM
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yes.. this hisidhu guy mixed up cricket and national and political Image/Impression..
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  #8  
Old August 2, 2004, 01:56 PM
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prottek din bordere guli koira koira manush marle to political impression kharap hoiboi...
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  #9  
Old August 3, 2004, 01:50 PM
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i'm not an india hater, but i'm a ganguli hater. if anyone wants to mingle this two and make it same, u are welcome to do so.
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  #10  
Old August 3, 2004, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentSmith
i'm not an india hater, but i'm a ganguli hater. if anyone wants to mingle this two and make it same, u are welcome to do so.
Ganguli also bangali.Because his langu.....is bangla.I also ganguli hater
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  #11  
Old August 4, 2004, 11:42 AM
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I hate a lot of stuff abt india...a lot of stuff abt it's foreign policy...and i also dont like the way it's media exaggerates stuff. but that doesnt mean that i dislike everything abt india or it's people.
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  #12  
Old August 4, 2004, 01:09 PM
billah billah is offline
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In dollar value, this must be the largest farse of all Indian farses. India has been looking for this opportunity for two decades now. I have high confidence in Morshed that he will not fall for this trap. Facts:


- India created an astonishing 550 kilomete detour on the Asian Highway, only to bypass Bangladesh.

- Morshed refused to sign the 23 nation treaty on this point.

- Now China has offered full cooperation to create the Myanmar-Bangladesh link to the Asian Highway.

-Thailand has also pledged full cooperation to Bangladesh with this plan.

-The Bangladesh Army core of Engineers has efficiently built the Bangladesh part of the Highway, ahead of schedule.

- The Bay of Bengal reaches the deepest inland at Bangladesh, creating a great vantage point for transshipment of Chinese cargo.

-We are giving Myanmar the funding and tech to build their part of this highway, just as India did it with them not too long ago.

-This rout will greatly benefit Thailand, China, Myanmar and Bangladesh.

-This rout will be a great disadvantage of the Indian rout, which is longer in the tune of 550 wopping kilometers.

"Gosh, what a do now? We built this **** looking detour just to shaft our neighbors. We spent hundreds of millions of Indian public's money in vein! Now, these buggers are bypassing the whole thing!" Hence the 150 million trap. A small price to pay to buy the sovereignity of a nation.

Creating a Railway transit is the temporary solution to keep India even in the picture with the Asian Highway. They want to collect duties and transport fees on the Chinese and Thai transshipment, which, otherwise will bypass them. They will build these into the rail system they propose to help us with. The second possible benefit in helping us with the Railway, they might finally get their transit, that they have been trying to get for years, wanting to move massive amount of people, equipment, cargo right through the middle of our country. What a dream that would be for a full scale military invasion!

I am sure my analysis has many flaws, however it is based on facts. Several decades ago India misused a grand amount of public money to build the dam across the Ganges also. Today, Farakka is a salvage property. It has caused much more damage to India'g natural resources and environment than to any others. 85% of the dam is permanently inoperable today. Same goes for most of other dams built upstream of these Himalayan rivers. Today, floods in India are reaching bibilical proportions due to the blunders of these dams. They inflict much heavier casualties on India than on it's tiny neighbor Bangladesh. A result of doing things with the wrong intention in mind.

India exports rebellion, terrorism, separatism to all it's neighbors as a state policy. The fact is, a destabilized region can never make for a stable India. The proof: India today is more divided within itself. Today, in India, we see the barbaric style race riots that would shame any civilized nation. We see tens of thousands (it is indeed tens of thousands) of farmers commiting suicide in protest for poverty and taxation as recent as today. Separatists in the Seven Sisters states are becoming so powerful that the states now use federal armies to fight them. Kashmir is a disaster. Religious fanatics and extremists are proud policymakers and lawmakers for the nation(an undeniable fact). These heroes are so convincing that even psuodo-racists like Naipaul has thrown away his mask and joined in. A true shame for a civic society.

Ethnically, the people of the subcontinent are not very different than each other, regardless of country. I am convinced that the general everyday Indians, no matter which part of the country they are from, do not dream of becoming the masters of their neighbors. Yet, today, there is a focused and concentrated effort by the very government of India to run a massive smear campaign against Bangladesh. Proof: Just pull any, and I mean, any negative international news against Bangladesh, you will see that the source of that news is India or Indian. This is sad.

After dealing with lopsided trade policies for many years, we are just beginning to fight back. This year, Bangladesh filed its first official complaint on the issue to the WTO. Bangladesh, since her inception, through thick and thin, has been walking a fine line of neutrality on international conflicts in style. She is a model citizen of this planet. Being among the very poor, we are proudly the largest contributors to the UN peacekeeping force. We are taking firm steps towards a better democracy. Pakistan has military rule following a non-secular government. Until just a few months ago, India was ruled by religious facists. We have no such government. Our political parties do not call for Holy War and ethnic clensing, unlike that of India.

As a young nation, we are making great strides, while facing great oppression by our giant neighbor, India. Although, ironically, India's noble involvement in the birth of Bangladesh should make this a mother-child type relationship, a wholesome one.

A stronger Bangladesh will always make for a stronger India, and yes, a weaker, destabilized Bangladesh will make for an India with a fatal weakness. You can take that to the bank, along with your 150 million!
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  #13  
Old August 4, 2004, 01:40 PM
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Bangla Mostan Bangla Mostan is offline
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What can i say..billah...the facts in your analysis speaks for itself..

We have to stride with our objectives and become stronger...dont aim outside the realism barrier....we can becoming a competitive nation if we work together...not kill each other..
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  #14  
Old August 4, 2004, 08:12 PM
jaga jaga is offline
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Dada,

Addhekta shawndesher purotai khaie dilen.
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  #15  
Old August 4, 2004, 11:05 PM
sageX sageX is offline
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I like India. I think India helped Bangladesh a lot. Following indian rupee Bangladeshi taka is better valued then pakistani rupee. So its not all bad. Bangladeshi think why not give me this, give me that and we donot want to even treat India fairly. It is always somebody else's fault, We need to stop thinking that way.
India developed a lot. We can learn couple of thinks from a nation which is getting things done.
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  #16  
Old August 5, 2004, 10:41 AM
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Billah's anti India bias seems to run quite deep. I do not think any Pakistani newspaper writes so rabidly against India. If Billah's source of information is not Pakistan but BD newspapers then it is quite shocking to say the least.

There are many things wrong in India but despite them there are many things going right for India as well. There is light at the end of the tunnel and the light is getting brighter for India. One of the things India can be really proud of is its Railway system. It is one of the things that unites India, other things being Hindi Films and Cricket.

Indian Railways network is 63,000 km long and it has 10,000 stations. Everyday 10,000 pairs of trains run and 30 million people are travelling on these trains at any time. Indian Railways is self sufficient in its requirements. It has its own production units to manufacture different types of Diesel and Electric locomotives, passenger coaches, wagons etc.
The passenger reservation system of Indian Railways is the biggest reservation system of its kind anywhere in the world. One can book a ticket from anywhere to anywhere from anywhere in any of the several classes of accomodation in person or through internet. This reservation system and also the suburban train system in Mumbai which carries 5 million commuters every day by running trains every two minutes are to my mind two of the modern miracles of the world. There are many more miracles that Indian Railways perform almost on a daily basis.

Indian Railways has a huge annual budget. In fact, Indian government presents the Railway budget separately and before the General budget.

Most Asian and African countries find Indian Railways more appropriate and cost effective compared to Europe or US. I am sure BD will benefit immensely. Of course BD have the choice of taking or refusing the offer of India. If one tries to look for ulterior motives into anything and everything Indian then that cannot be helped. One can for instance seek Chinese help to develop BD Railways. But Chinese Railways, despite the impressive growth in Chinese economy are still some way behind Indian Railways. And never ever think of approaching US for such assistance. First of all they will not be bothered. Secondly, they will rip you off. Indian Railways have already done the hard work of going to US, Europe etc, getting ripped off, getting wiser, buying their technology, indigenising and starting manufacturing on their own. India has done the hard work for rest of the third world countries so that others need not re invent the wheel.

Please do not think that I have invented all the stuff written above. I have an indepth knowledge of Indian Railways because I am an insider in Indian Railways for last 20 years and I have seen the progress personally. In fact I have been involved in it personally.



[Edited on 5-8-2004 by cricketfan]
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  #17  
Old August 5, 2004, 11:08 AM
oracle oracle is offline
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Balance please!

I would'nt mind some credit going to the British Empire amongst all this rail talk, even though as Cricket fan has rightly pointed out the strides made after independence.
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  #18  
Old August 5, 2004, 12:57 PM
sageX sageX is offline
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Chinese people build rail line in USA. USA rail line system would be impossible without chinese labor. Indian train system was implemented by british Engineers. China do their own job. China also won the contract to build railway system in Afganistan.

Just to balance it.
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  #19  
Old August 5, 2004, 01:37 PM
billah billah is offline
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cricketfan has done a superb job sidestepping all that I said in my post here. I would very much like if you please address the issues I raised here point by point. After all, you are critisizing me here viciously, then you slip away to talk about the ultimate greatness of the great Indian railway system in detail. What gives? It seems you have training in the very eyewash technique of the Indian media. Since you are calling my post "biased" and "rabid", why not take it up to discuss? Step up to the plate. Bring it on!
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  #20  
Old August 5, 2004, 03:51 PM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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For Bangladesh, investing heavily in a railway system is a bad idea. Railroads work at places where flooding is not a huge deal as it is in Bangladesh. Climatic conditions in Bangladesh simply does not make a railway system very viable. Given our conditions, we should have a combination of road transportation coupled with shuttle ferries. Just because India has done well with railway system does not imply that we have to copy that.

On the other hand, Billah has launched quite a few bouncers, and some of them are legal deliveries. I am interested to see how any of our friends from India reply to these. I am especially interested in the following point:
"After dealing with lopsided trade policies for many years, we are just beginning to fight back. This year, Bangladesh filed its first official complaint on the issue to the WTO."

By all means, I am looking for a fair statement here -- no beating around the bush please.
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  #21  
Old August 5, 2004, 05:48 PM
jaga jaga is offline
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"But Chinese Railways, despite the impressive growth in Chinese economy are still some way behind Indian Railways. "

"And never ever think of approaching US for such assistance. First of all they will not be bothered. Secondly, they will rip you off. Indian Railways have already done the hard work of going to US, Europe etc, getting ripped off, getting wiser, buying their technology, indigenising and starting manufacturing on their own. "

- cricketfan: Well, you want to advertise Indian Railways, go ahead. But don't bring in other countries.



"India has done the hard work for rest of the third world countries so that others need not re invent the wheel."

- What a idea Completely disagree. India is just trying to do business. if I put it in your words: India is trying to "rip off" others. Fortunately others are getting "wiser".


And, I also found your reply to billah's post has nothing to do with what he said.
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  #22  
Old August 5, 2004, 05:55 PM
jaga jaga is offline
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"I think India helped Bangladesh a lot. Following indian rupee Bangladeshi taka is better valued then pakistani rupee. So its not all bad."

Couldn't understand. what stronger taka has to do with Indian help.

And, if it is so it only makes Indian goods cheaper in Bangladesh: a perfect ground for dumping - destroying local industries.
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  #23  
Old August 5, 2004, 09:28 PM
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Couple of things:

I am not sure if cricketfan sidestepped anything. For one this thread's topic was about Indian assistance in our Railway sector, and he simply said why that may be a good idea for Bangladesh. Technically many of the things Billah talked about could be considered off-topic because they have gone on to things way beyond simple railways construction, and have mainly concentrated on the reasons behind our mistrust of India.

This is not to say that I disagree with Billah's points. Many of them are pretty valid, and it may be inconceivable to an ordinary well-meaning Indian citizen the extent to which some of the smaller neighbours have been treated unfairly at times by India. I guess one would have to be in shoes of the wronged to be really aware of what goes on.

However, we are all here in a spirit of friendship. So let us discuss in a positive manner and with an open mind and try and understand the other's point of view.

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  #24  
Old August 5, 2004, 09:45 PM
rassel rassel is offline
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"India’s 150 million dollar aid offer to modernize Bangladesh rail – an excellent political and fiscal move"


Sure, this way, it would be easier for India to export more stuff in our country.
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  #25  
Old August 5, 2004, 10:13 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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my 2 cents:

no country offers 150 big ones in assistance unless there is something in it for themselves. duh.

for those people thinking the givernment of bangladesh does NOT preach holy war, of course it doesn't. but what exactly is the campaign againist ahmadiya muslims all about? what about the takeover of the erstwhile centrist government by the far right? oh, I forget I am preaching to the choir... get a grip on reality, friends.
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