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  #26  
Old August 3, 2004, 08:04 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sasharif
in his last ODI he scored 31 runs in 42 balls against Pakistan and BD manged to score 220 runs. Remember those days when Atahar, Aminul, minhazul, Akram palyed together and BD used to score between 190 - 230 regularly. And now our score is between 130-180.
I could be wrong, but both Aminul and Akram was faild so often, just before
they going to be dropped.( as far I can remember)
I am not even sure, whether it was ODI or test.
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  #27  
Old August 3, 2004, 09:44 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sasharif
in his last ODI he scored 31 runs in 42 balls against Pakistan and BD manged to score 220 runs. Remember those days when Atahar, Aminul, minhazul, Akram palyed together and BD used to score between 190 - 230 regularly. And now our score is between 130-180.
hello, I don't remember that at all. Please look at what mediocre opposition they used to play against once every 17 years to get the scores of 190-230.

Our score is not between 130-180 now as a general rule, they just had 3-4 bad games recently folks, please calm down.
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  #28  
Old August 3, 2004, 01:41 PM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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Default Expectation Threshold

yeah, the heading of my post is the problem of all the old and new player conflict. i've seen several post about bringing back all the former stars of our national team, akram, nannu, bulbul and naimur. at least we are not asking for bowlers like gm nousheed prince! but the question is, is the old foxes any better than the ones we have now? Actually, NO. in fact, they are even worse.

the problem is, as i said expectation threshold. we did not have much expectation when they used to play. and, when they did play, all they cared for was playing 50 overs or getting a total of 200 and so on, regardless of the games nature or requirement. now, if u do'nt try to reach a goal, its really easy to have a better looking lose. but the new team at least try for the win, and may be ended up with worse result. which one u think is more positive, u decide.

moreover, the cricketing world went many many steps further since those oldies steped over. can they cope with the new techniques and all? i can't think so.

like everyone else, i'm also very very disappointed about the tiger's performance. but, i've no doubt that bringing back former starts is not a solution.
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  #29  
Old August 3, 2004, 02:23 PM
oracle oracle is offline
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Quote:
moreover, the cricketing world went many many steps further since those oldies steped over. can they cope with the new techniques and all?
Agree.

Younger sides will have an edge in terms of agility and as such they can be trained to be sharper fielders which is a "must" in international cricket. Just look at India and Sri Lanka.
Having said that, as highlighted in Shewar's piece, there shoulkd be a role for these seniors and maybe they are not contributing fully to the development process of BD cricket.
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  #30  
Old August 3, 2004, 06:17 PM
Ibrahim Ibrahim is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by capslock
Why stop there? Put in Faruque Ahmed at number 3.
This is the best joke in this forum
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  #31  
Old August 3, 2004, 11:00 PM
rajibpaulrana rajibpaulrana is offline
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guys dont be mad......
bringing the old players wont do any good. we all feel the same for our team. even after the westindies tour everyone was praising our team. bu one bad tournament and the whole team gets the blame...
my suggestion is get the under 19 boys in the world stage slowly...
mashrafee and shareef will be back shortly and then we will look a different team.
but one thing is for sure we shound make 2 different teams for short and long version of the game...
think for the future.....
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  #32  
Old August 4, 2004, 12:48 AM
sasharif sasharif is offline
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Dear all! please look at the fact. Are we telling that the current team is playing against superior oponents? Let us not forgert the players I am talking about played against likes of Wasim Akram, Walsh, Ambrose, Ranatunga, Wagh brothers, De Silva etc. I don't thins those teams were weaker than current SL, Austrlia, WI or Pak teams. How many times teh current team past 200+ in ODIs (except agianst Zim)? Talking about agility, how many catches we drop per match with thse bunch of agile fileders. All I am saying We ahve tried with teh talents, now let's put 2 people who does not have gerat talent but have better foot work and capable of scoring 30 odd runs at least. We need runs, we rather loose after scoring a respectable total, than loose by a hughe maging after pretending that we were just going for a win. Some of these players do not even know which ball to hit and which one to defend.
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  #33  
Old August 4, 2004, 07:51 AM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sasharif
All I am saying We ahve tried with teh talents, now let's put 2 people who does not have gerat talent but have better foot work and capable of scoring 30 odd runs at least.
Considering the fact that both Bulbul, Akram and Nannu are in their mid 30's, I really don't see any valid reason to why these oldies should be brought back. Lets say they score 20/30 odd runs in every match. But how long do you expect them to continue playing in international arena? Another 1 year? Surely age will take its toll. What then? To kick them out and look for new bloods after an year?

BD team dont have the luxury for a temporary solution. It will bring our cricket to nowhere. We must nurture younsters for the betterment of our future cricket for a long run. The best we can do is to appoint these oldies as advisors to our young cricketers. We want their tips and experience, but not those odd 20/30 runs.
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  #34  
Old August 4, 2004, 12:26 PM
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akabir77 akabir77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sasharif
Dear all! please look at the fact. Are we telling that the current team is playing against superior oponents? Let us not forgert the players I am talking about played against likes of Wasim Akram, Walsh, Ambrose, Ranatunga, Wagh brothers, De Silva etc. I don't thins those teams were weaker than current SL, Austrlia, WI or Pak teams. How many times teh current team past 200+ in ODIs (except agianst Zim)? Talking about agility, how many ......
One thing you forgot to mention i don't know whether you have watched those games or not at that time after 25/30 overs other team use to bring their light guns to bowl like for paki wazed ali or some one who was a batsman got three wickets and most of the time the other team knew that they are wining so they were not hard on us and on that proccess our most talented batsman!!! (AL SHAhariar) got few 50's. But those matches were done after 20 over after that the big team just go with the motion which is not the case anymore sp after pak defeat no one is loose a little bit.

So please keep that in mind before saying those player were better than current...
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  #35  
Old August 4, 2004, 12:48 PM
MondayMorningQB MondayMorningQB is offline
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desperate situation requires desperate measures....

The question is: Is the situation so bad, that demands desperate measures?


In that case why not go to the extreme and bring back Rokibul and open him with Gullu in next few test series. Who knows they might create some kind of record.

In specialist spinner department, we can add our Energizer Bunny, Goala (Keeps on going) instead of Rafique and/or Razzak.

In opening bowler department, we can use “always reliable” Chacha and “once upon a time” speedster Badshah.

Hira can give rest to Pilot once in a while as a part-time wicketkeeper. Btw, how old is he now?

How about using “Kalicharan” Babu to stabilize the middle order.

Relax …. …things will be ok!!:P
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  #36  
Old August 4, 2004, 01:00 PM
paco paco is offline
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I like the idea about Rokibul - let's bring him back. How about Golam Nowsher prince also ...
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  #37  
Old August 4, 2004, 01:01 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Navarene
Considering the fact that both Bulbul, Akram and Nannu are in their mid 30's, I really don't see any valid reason to why these oldies should be brought back. Lets say they score 20/30 odd runs in every match. But how long do you expect them to continue playing in international arena? Another 1 year? Surely age will take its toll. What then? To kick them out and look for new bloods after an year?
I dont disagree with ur logic or explanation... but I do strongly protest ur language and way of phrasing when u mention the senior players like that in there... (marked in bold) ...

Every time has its own heroes.. and these Senior players are heroes of our cricket of that time!! Please dont make the mistake of degrading them by your words on the way to establish any of ur logic!!
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  #38  
Old August 4, 2004, 01:12 PM
paco paco is offline
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With all due respect to your opinions about Bulbul or Nannu, I think we should let the stats speak for themselves ...

Name Mat I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50
Alok Kapali 42 41 2 797 89* 20.43 65.81 - 4
Aminul Islam 39 39 5 794 70 23.35 56.59 - 3
Minhajul Abedin 27 26 2 453 68* 18.87 49.83 - 2
Rajin Saleh 19 19 0 450 71 23.68 52.44 - 3

I don't see how you guys can think Bulbul or Nannu would do any better than Rajin or Alok. Count in the fact that Bulbuls 5 not outs inflate his average by quite a bit, and both Bulbul and Nannu have been known for their slow strike rates.
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  #39  
Old August 5, 2004, 12:15 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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Default Let\'s see them all ..

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  #40  
Old August 5, 2004, 12:33 AM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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bd's average speaks for its team performance. just look at it. it is a sorry looking stat by any means.


do u guys remember how those 3 oldies used to play? wihout any target. wasting 50 overs wiht a target of spending it, 20 odd runs is not that hard. and even if the current team get out below that, they try to chase a total or to build it. and, i think thats the difference we should keep in mind before thinking of bringing any one back.
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  #41  
Old August 5, 2004, 02:08 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Default Current Squad - No Risk, No Gain?

I think one thing is not mentioned here at all.

THE FACTOR OF THE NEW BALL.

Bulbul, Akram, Nannu, Durjoy - they all played at number four, five, six and sometimes at seven. Only a few times (2/3 times) Akram and Durjoy were tried at number three or in the opening position and they failed miserably, considering their batting average and the number of times played at their respected batting positions.

Since we are having to face a similar kind of situation now just as before, the opening dilemma - THE NEW BALL FACTOR, (that is, wickets fall too regularly in the first few overs) so our aim could be to strengthen our middle order batting. And hence, stop losing the matches inside the first 10 overs of our batting.

In that case, Bashar, Rajin, Ashraful - the three main inform spearheads in our batting in present times can be batted at positions three, four and five. Given that Alok Kapali is not in such a good form, so lets just forget about him for the moment. The Bashar-Rajin-Ashraful batting line up helped us in the One Day series against Zimbabwe, so we could have stayed with the same batting order for the rest of the season.

However, as we are trying to get our acts together and trying to beat teams stronger than Zimbabwe, so the risk of entertaining the idea of Ashraful opening came into the mind of Whatmore, for our sake of winning against stronger teams like SL, IND, PAK, so Whatmore took a chance, a risk, and since there is no risk, no gain, so he was encouraged by the idea.

Anyway, am I making sense? There are the facts given by Atahar Ali Khan, the only opener (a makeshift opener, to be precise - just like Mohammad Ashraful) in our recent past who have succeeded in the International career and ofcourse there is Javed Omar, who have shown some success in International career.

I think my ideas are all messed up at the moment. If at least any one of you has come to understand as to what I meant, then my time on this long-messed-up post is worth it.
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  #42  
Old August 5, 2004, 05:36 AM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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I wasn't much interested to post anything in this unrealistic discussion of "Bringing back players who already crossed their mid 30's" but the following data of batting averages caught my eyes n shocked me quite a lot!!

These r called our main guys!
Bashar 17.66 in 52 innings
Ashraful 16.66 in 35 innings
Hannan Sarkar 19.15 in 20 innings
Alok Kapali 20.43 in 42 innings

Notable: Currently considered 'out of form Alok & Hannan got higher averages.

Bit respectable r these:
Rajin Saleh 23.68 in 19 innings
Javed Omar 25.81 in 30 innings
Manjural Rana 30.42 in 10 innings
Khaled Masud* 25.12 in last 10 innings
(*though his alltime average is 18.13 in 80 innings I think he has got some momentum in is bat recenty)

[Edited on 5-8-2004 by crickethorizon]
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  #43  
Old August 5, 2004, 05:44 AM
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Habibul_bashar Habibul_bashar is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by crickethorizon
I wasn't much interested to post anything in this unrealistic discussion of "Bringing back players who already crossed their mid 30's" but the following data of batting averages caught my eyes n shocked me quite a lot!!

Bashar 17.66 in 52 innings
Ashraful 16.66 in 35 innings
Hannan Sarkar 19.15 in 20 innings
Alok Kapali 20.43 in 42 innings

Bit respectable r these:

Rajin Saleh 23.68 in 19 innings
Javed Omar 25.81 in 30 innings
Manjural Rana 30.42 in 10 innings
Khaled Masud* 25.12 in last 10 innings
(*though his alltime average is 18.13 in 80 innings I think has got some momentum in is bat recenty)
Manjural Rana 30.42 is the best man. Hannan Sarkar (19.15 in 20 innings) is more then bashar and ash. Did Hannan will back in ICC2004 in UK on opner.
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  #44  
Old August 5, 2004, 10:39 AM
Iram Iram is offline
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I agree with you, sasharif.
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  #45  
Old August 5, 2004, 11:04 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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Akram and Bulbul - these guys should have crossed 1000 runs. Especially Akram who was so close. He came into the World Cup last year and plodded and nudged his way through a few overs - hardly picked up any runs. Against Kenya, one was expecting some accelaration from him but all he did was stand around. Those guys never got a good run chase going, they were just happy to face as many balls as possible. No wonder Bangladesh were always out of the game by the 20th over. Anyway, I don't mean to be too harsh on the legends, they did their duty for Bangladesh, but the cricket (from us) then was just not very good.

Fwullah - one thing you bring up in your post is that we got into the recent mess primarily because of the opener problem. Converting Ash to an opener has made the middle order paper thin. Do we have any real openers out there set to make a comeback? Wouldn't that solve some of our current problems?
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  #46  
Old August 5, 2004, 11:14 AM
oracle oracle is offline
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Quote:
Do we have any real openers out there set to make a comeback? Wouldn't that solve some of our current problems?
Come December and Sarkar + Bidyut will be back. Same cycle over again.
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  #47  
Old August 5, 2004, 11:16 AM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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Quote:
Do we have any real openers out there set to make a comeback?
Apart from Javed Omar Belim, Shahriar Hossain Bidyut is reported to be fit according to BangladesherKhela report. But our U-19 opener Nafis Iqbal is probably the first choice over Bidyut in ICC Champions Trophy.

To Crickethorizon
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings about our ex crickers. I had no intention to be derogatory to those old chaps. Pls take the word "oldies" as a figure of speech and don't read much into it. Thank heaven I didn't call them as "senile" kidding...

[Edited on 5-8-2004 by Navarene]
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  #48  
Old August 5, 2004, 02:12 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Navarene
To Crickethorizon
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings about our ex crickers. I had no intention to be derogatory to those old chaps. Pls take the word "oldies" as a figure of speech and don't read much into it. Thank heaven I didn't call them as "senile" kidding...
... it's ok man.. u din't hurt my feelings!
It's just that they r the best we had at a certain time in our cricket..

n speaking frankly... at times their style of playing used to irritate me as well like many other fans here!
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  #49  
Old August 5, 2004, 02:26 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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Is Mehrab out of form now..... or still stuck due to that suspension in the domestic league........... he could be one of our options as oppener along with javed, bidyut and hannan.......(not considering nafees, let him have some more experience and learn not to through away wickets, after all we are expecting long service from this man)
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  #50  
Old August 5, 2004, 03:36 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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mafizraju,

you may be the only person on the planet not considering nafis iqbal at this point, all arguments against it notwithstanding.
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