sick and tired of Bangladesh losing

[Forhad]

I have a question, why doesn't the Bangladesh cricket team Management including Dav Watmore look else where to select players for their team, for example in the UK. I have lived in London all my life and have played with many Bengali cricketers who I believe with the right nurture will be able to compete internationally for the Bangladesh national side.

I put his to dav watmore at Lords the other day and he just didn’t want to know

I believe a side should be put together containing Bengali foreign nationals and play the current Bangladesh international side to test my theory (who's interested contact me)

[chinaman]

Interesting idea. However, it the generally accepted norm for players to make themselves available for selection. BCB conducts camps all year round with High Performance Unit for various age groups. Potential players should contact BCB first.

By the way, does any such player you know of plays in the county league? How do you come across to know of their talent? How do you compare them with the Under 19 players that just toured England?

BCB's address:

Bangladesh Cricket Board
Navana tower (7th Floor)
45, Gulshan Avenue,
Dhaka , Bangladesh

Tel : 9888956, 9890530

[ZunaidH]

Forhad;

I am sorry to hear that Whatmore gave you the "don't want to know" treatment. As Chinaman puts it, players need to show their interest and make themselves available. In cricket we are less like USA / Canada and more like Pakistan/ India /Sri Lanka when selecting teams. Besides requesting you to heed Chinaman's advice, the other thing I can say is that the losing streak is equally painful for most everyone in the board. Just hang in there.

[chinaman]

Oh, I forgot to mention that, there is an express lane available for potential fast bowlers. Any one with the following criteria will be offered further training:

Minimum bowling speed: 130 km
Age: 15 yrs or less


BTW, welcome to banglacricket, Forhad.

[Piranha]

In addition, the ICC has some rules about cricketers with dual citizenship. Onbiously, people who have lived abroad can certainly play for another country (Clayton Lambert being a good example, so is Graeme Hick). Obviously some players managed to get over the ICC rules, but u have to know that it makes life a lot more difficult for the overseas player.

Also, there is a major issue of 'blending' with the cricket culture. I saw some tensions arising even when teams from English-medium schools played Bangla-medium schools. And I can tell you that while most ppl ignore such issues, it can occasionally be a nasty problem. Obviously for someone coming from the UK, the problems get magnified many times.

I hope my post made some sense. Also, I hope I didnt offend anyone - this is just my observations as a person who has played (a tiny) bit of cricket in Dhaka.

[Zephaniah]

Piranha. Personally i think we should get over the issue of 'medium of instruction at school' by now. Does it actually mean that 'culturally' our youngsters couldn't cope with different background? Bangladesh is a small country with mostly homogeneous ethnic background. If India can compile a team from 25 different states/culture, 3/4 different religion then it shouldn't be much of an issue in BD. Is it reasonably safe to say that BD have players with most homogeneous background with Australia running close second (Andy Simonds - first aboriginal to play for Aussie?)?

Main contrasting factors for other test playing countries other than India are:
Pakistan - Too many tribes (Pathan, Pashtuns etc), Mohajirs from Karachi
SriLanka - 3 different religion, 2 conflicting races
England - White & Non-white players, Players from other commonwealth countries, religions
West Indies - Self explanatory, Total 13 countries? 2/3 different races
Zimbabwe - Where shall i start from?
South Africa - Prejudice. White, Asian, Black communities,
New-Zealand - Why all most prominent rugby players are of Maori/aboriginal origin, but in cricket all we can see is D. Tuffy?

[rassel]

Forhad do you have anybody in mind that might be able to change the downfall of our team. If so, you better give some details so we could see the potential of whomever you are trying to bring to the side. Right now most fans looking for instant success, probably nobody including the coach, the BCB are interested in bringing foreign born Bengali for future success. We have plenty of developing programs going throughout country. I am pretty sure next generation of superstar will develop in our own land. It’s just matter of time.




Edited on, October 2, 2004, 2:57 AM GMT, by rassel.

[Forhad]

Thank you to the instant replies to my message,

I am PE teacher/cricket coach here in the UK, I have come across Bengalis who have expressed the desire to take the sport further. I see talent in some of them and believe they could one day play for Bangladesh (or even England?) with the right type of coaching. I have also played cricket in all sorts of forms, including school, college, university (Imperial College) and regional club sides, where I have come across Bengali players too.

it was mentioned that there are plenty of developing programmes in Bangladesh, how about developing programmes abroad like in the UK.

here in the county league (UK), there are no bengali cricket players, but that does not mean the bengali players in this country are not good enough to play international cricket for Bangladesh. I’m sure most of the current Bdesh team will not even get into most of the 2nd XI county teams here in the UK .

in my opinion the current Bdesh side do not deserve test status yet and should go back to the drawing board and return in a few years. As a colleague above said; its not all about winning, yes I do agree, I say the same thing to my kids in school and when coaching. However I personally believe that this does not apply to international cricket, where the demands for success are far greater and money is involved.

Q. Did Sri lanka go through the same phase when they were given test status?

[rafiq]

Sri Lanka were much better prepared most probably. The Bangladesh team is inconsistent and immature, it is not that they lack complete talent. If they can't get into the English county XI teams then I suppose so too can't the many opposing test players that have struggled against BD on their day. If Bangladeshi players can hit Brett Lee all over the park or lose narrowly to Pakistan or West Indies, they cannot be all that bad - they need more time to mature as players since most of them are pretty young. They don't play much domestic cricket, let alone have any solid international exposure, before they are drafted into the national age teams. It's a faulty, self-defeating system in place over there.

As for British Bangladeshi origin players that is an intriguing idea. If good enough, some of these players would be interested in representing their parent's motherland and it may be the only way for them to play international cricket (I doubt a British bangladeshi would choose Bangaldesh cricket over England if he were that good). The problem is the logistics. Maybe you should keep trying to bring this up with BCB, Whatmore as well as Coach McInnes of the U-19 team and High Performance Unit. Maybe some of these players ought to start by going to Bangladesh and playing a season or two of domestic cricket - if they can find clubs to take them on.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Forhad
Q. Did Sri lanka go through the same phase when they were given test status?

Please to meet you, Forhad. Glad to know that a cricket coach is around. Our U19 coach and High Performance Manager Richard McInnes is also a member here and pays regular visits. If you have any questions, you can post it in the forum, I'm sure he will answer it at his convenience.

If you asked the above question to make a comparisn between Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, then I'd say, every situation is different with its own sets of inherent disadvantages and advantages. Some countries were more ripe than the others to get the elite status. And the history tells us that there were weaker nations in the big league from the beginning.

As for Bangladesh, when we look back retroactively, it might seem to be the least prepared when the recognition arrived. However, knowing the country a bit closer, I beg to differ here. BCB is probably one of the very few organizations that truly employs professionalism at a greater detail in the country. Where the whole country is divided along partisan lines in almost every aspects of life, cricket is being held with remarkable unity.

The structure, the momentum, the interest that we see in this sport might not have come without the elite status. We had the interest, talent and facilities, which were rightfully recognized by the international cricket community, but the actual momemtum could only come from the recognition itself. If we were to get the test status in, say, 2007, we'd still be struggling for the momentum in the following years.

For a relatively lazy country like ours, we need some sort of wake up calls everytime we wanted to go for the big ones. Test status was such a call. It instantly woke the country up. People now can think of cricket as a profession, not just a mere game. That was the biggest gain of all so far. We are stuck within a cycle now in terms of performance, but it wouldn't take much longer to start getting the benefit of the momentum. And, in this regard, the test status could not have come any earlier than that. Cheers.

[fwullah]

I would like to say that talking with Farque would be a good idea rather than with Whatmore. With all due respect to Dav, he doesn't know anyone else besides the current bunch of Bangladesh national team - for example, those who are playing in domestic matches.

Anyway, in reply to Forhad, I don't know how long have you been following Bangladesh cricket ON TV, but I'm guessing that you are voicing your opinion only on the basis of watching the recent Champions Trophy, the WI tour and the U-19 BD playing against the ENG U-19 players and may be some very few International tours by Bangladesh that are shown on UK TV channels.

If my guess is right, then just think about this: almost none of our current national team has gone to UK before, and it is a well-known fact that every cricketer who goes to play in the English conditions for the first time fails to comprehend the situations under those conditions. Why don't you look at it this way - if some of your known bengalis come to play in Bangladesh, won't they find the spinners (no matter how inaccurate they are) and the turning tracks difficult enough?

And if my guess is not right, then just think about the times of the world cup 1999, or rather, before the world cup 1999, when our then national team had beaten various county teams in the warm up teams. Why don't you think about Minhazul Abedin, Aminul Islam, and of the current generation - Shafiuddin Ahmed, (another player whose name I can't remember at this moment - that was published on some papers during the Champions Trophy) who played and are playing in UK domestic matches. I believe some other cricketers have also visited UK and played for some county teams in the UK before.

[Zephaniah]

Forhad. Glad to have you here. Having seen both side of the coin ( I'm a british-born bangladeshi lived 40.74% of my life in BD, played school cricket there and I'm a season ticket holder of Surrey CCC) I would not agree with couple your remarks.

1. I’m sure most of the current Bdesh team will get into most of the 2nd XI county teams here in the UK. The likes of Nafees, Rafique, Bashar and Ash to some extent probebly will walk into the 1st XI of Worcestershire, Gloucestershire, may be Warwickshire etc. But I reckon none of them would be able to hold their position due to consistant inconsistancy and lack of professionalism. In County cricket players who can perform days in days out for five days a week can only think of holding a place in the team. Rafique could be an exception but this year his performance has nose-dived.

2. Now about developing programmes abroad like in the UK. I simply don't understand why BCB needs to do that. British-bangladeshi youngsters can have access to most cutting-edge training facilities in the UK in all level which many of BD toddlers only can dream of. Can you tell me how long it would take for Bdesh to have training facilities as good as Leighborough University?

3. I guess there are no legal issues for British-born Bdeshies who want to make themselves available for national team selection i.e. playing in the domestic league etc. Gerient Jones, English W/K, was born in Papua New Guiena grew up In Australia but qualified for England through Welsh parents. Many players from commonwealth countries qualified for England through their parents. I guess 'Kolpac ruling' is now an international law. So Any British born Bdeshi should be able to play for BD national team if he is good enough. And ofcourse residency rule applies.

4. I don't see any point talking about BD's test status now. Were Bangladesh given test status early? Yes. But do they deserve to be a test nation? Yes. Addition to the much discussed criterions ( ICC champion'97, win against test nation, cricket-crowd, popularity etc) ICC systemitacally brings in a nation into the elite fold in every 10 years, roughly. It's part of ICC's globalisation policy which is politically correct for the expansion of the game. Early 80's it was Srilanka, early 90's it was Zimbabwe. Who would have been a better choice than Bangladesh in 2000 then?

[mij]

Forhad

I agree with you, we need to find our talent, if not in Bangladesh, around the world, where our Bangladeshi are. Who is willing to give 100% and capable of doing better than current Bangladeshi players.


We can not sit back, and wait for things to happen. We have to gain it, with hard work. So Bangladesh cricket management should look at all the possibilities...

[Sam]

Originally posted by Forhad
...in my opinion the current Bdesh side do not deserve test status yet and should go back to the drawing board and return in a few years...

Welcome to Banglacricket, Forhad.

Nice to see you here, but I respectfully disagree with your above comment on Bangladesh Team and their status. The reasons you can find in the posts by chinaman, fwullah and Zephaniah, which I don't want to repeat.

The British-bengali players may play only, if there is no problem in residency rules. But can you please explain, why they are not playing in county cricket, if they are capable of doing so.

[Piranha]

Welcome to the board Forhad (a bit belated welcome i'll admit).

You do have a very good point, and it would be useful to pursue this further. Despite all the potential difficlties mentioned, I think the idea of brining in players from UK has good merit. If nothing else, it would be a useful experiment.

I'd seriously suggest getting in touch with Coach McInnes. Our moderators have his email address, and he has told us that he reads our input. Try sending the mods a U2U (top right hand corner of this page).

[rassel]

Originally posted by Sam


The British-bengali players may play only, if there is no problem in residency rules. But can you please explain, why they are not playing in county cricket, if they are capable of doing so.

yes, i would like to know that too. I see too many paki and Indian all over in county cricket, but no bengali.

[Ahmed_B]

Originally posted by rassel
yes, i would like to know that too. I see too many paki and Indian all over in county cricket, but no bengali.

wel baparta temon kisu na.. ashole bangalee joto gorje toto borshe na..!!


amar dharona.. serokom professional keu jodi thakto.. then they ud hav surfaced n we ud hav found them playing in the county already!

[rassel]

Indeed, that's what I thought.

[Forhad]

Ok where do I start.


With respect, if Zep thinks that a Bangladesh player could get into an English county team, then I would like to see that happen. However I still believe none of the current players have the talent to get in. It will be one heck of an achievement if a player could get in, and if he does, I would be so proud and would gladly apologize for my remarks.

As for British Bengali cricketers in county cricket, there is none, this is because they are not encouraged enough in schools or by parents here in the UK. There is also the general politics that hinder Asians here in the UK to get into a county team and the only way you can get in is; if you know someone at the club, play international cricket already or have money. Another major reason for no Bengali players in county teams is that they have no Bengali sports role models to look up to and follow their footsteps. Hence why I have brought up this issue and believe we require a foreign national Bengali based player in the Bangladesh international team to encourage all Bengalis around the world (not just in the UK) to play the lovely game of cricket and take it further then just playing in the park on Sunday. This I strongly believe will rejuvenate Bangladesh cricket and will bring us huge success in the future.

I am not expecting the Bangladesh Cricket Association to set up the fantastic facilities like in Loughborough University. I just wish they could promote the game to British Bengalis here in the UK, not just by playing here, but setting up some form of association and presence here in the UK to get Bengali youngsters off the streets and get them to make something of themselves (by playing sports such as Cricket).

Looking forward to your comments and I apologize for any offense that I may of made to any1 in my last three posts

[bourny3]

Originally posted by Zephaniah
(Andy Simonds - first aboriginal to play for Aussie?)?

Andy Symonds is not even aboriginal he is a mauri or islander of some sort.

[Sam]

I am sorry Forhad, your explanation seems to me not very convincing. You told that,"... this is because they are not encouraged enough in schools or by parents here in the UK. There is also the general politics that hinder Asians here in the UK to get into a county team..."

Here are two points:
1) Playing cricket by Asians is not encouraged in the schools,
2) Politics hindering Asians to get into county clubs.

As far we know, there is discrimination in British society, but it's not to that extend that in the schools the Asians will not be encouraged to play cricket. Rather there are instances where boys and girls of Pakistani and Indian origins did well in school level and drafted in higher levels of cricket. Otherwise, Nasser Hossain or Vikram Solanki could not be drafted in the national team. Take the case of Isa Tara Guha of England Women team, who is a British Bengali of Indian origin. She started her cricket right from her school days. She played ODI at the age of 16.
If other Asians can get chances and play cricket in the highest level, then why it does not work for Bengalis of Bangladeshi origin?
If British Bengali (of Bangladeshi origin) cricketers are playing as amateur week-end cricketers, how can you justify that they will be of better quality than our regular players?



Edited on, October 3, 2004, 6:05 PM GMT, by Sam.

[Zephaniah]

Originally posted by Forhad
.......... to get Bengali youngsters off the streets and get them to make something of themselves (by playing sports such as Cricket).

Looking forward to your comments and I apologize for any offense that I may of made to any1 in my last three posts

I sense thats the main agenda of your posts, which I really appreciate. Rate of drugs related problems and anti-social behaviours are on the rise among Bengali youngsters here and we all would love to give them ( those who are on the wrong side of the track) something to get inspiration from like a playing a sport. But unfortunately setting up some form of development programme in the Uk is not a feasible option for BCB, IMHO. Hypothetically speaking even if BCB run such programme in the UK and unearthen an international class player what are the chances that he would play for BD instead of some major counties? None, if you ask me. So I don't think this idea will ever see any daylight.

"... this is because they are not encouraged enough in schools or by parents here in the UK. There is also the general politics that hinder Asians here in the UK to get into a county team...". I somewhat agree with this statement. But one needs to motivate himself to achive something in life rather than taking the typical 'bengali' route of blaming the system or parents. That dude from Bolton, Olympic silver winner Amir Khan, did it mate. So it's possible. But they need to look beyond the circle ( read bengali community).

Edited on, October 3, 2004, 4:01 PM GMT, by Zephaniah.

[Zephaniah]

Another thing. The reason the likes of Rafique & Bashar (only for longer version, not C&G cup or Totesport cup) would not get a county call up is related to 'work-permit'. Every good players from around the globe wants to play county cricket for good money. Good players from lesser countries face fierce competition, hypothetically, from players from South Africa, West Indies, Australia, NZ - all commonwealth countries with no work-permit issue. So it's easily understood why English county teams are reluctant to call up any players with reasonably good ability from lesser countries. After world cup heroics Colin Obuya of Kenya was drafted in county circuit, but he did not last long due to inconsistancy. And that's the main problem for players from lesser countries.

Edited on, October 3, 2004, 4:23 PM GMT, by Zephaniah.

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

humm bapre bap kothin kothin kotha shob.