facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 10, 2004, 03:41 PM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: September 6, 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,296
Default Crowe: Limit exposure to speed progress

Crowe: Bangladesh 'have to learn the slow way
Martin Crowe has expressed his opinion, how to go for a steady progress for Bangladesh cricket. Here follows the report.
Martin Crowe, the former New Zealand cricket captain, believes Bangladesh's Test matches should be confined to playing only the side ranked immediately ahead of them on the ICC Test Championship, while also playing much more cricket against international A teams.

Rather than having to see the Bangladeshis struggle against other countries as they try to meet their commitments to the five-year playing programme, Crowe believes there would be greater long-term benefit to Bangladesh with such a scheme. The same would also apply to one-day internationals, although exceptions could be made for the World Cup and Champions Trophy.

Crowe, who now works as executive producer of cricket for SKY Television in New Zealand, the host broadcaster of cricket, said he heard the comments made by television commentators and officials during the New Zealand series with Bangladesh that New Zealand was in no position to talk about Bangladesh's record, given how long it had taken to win its first Test match - 26 years and 46 Tests.

But he said he didn't agree with that sentiment. The New Zealand teams of the 1930s and 1940s had no money, no video analysis, no coaches and no academies, he explained. Yet the New Zealand side of 1949 to England was still probably a better team than the current Bangladesh one.

"I have no problem with giving Bangladesh a chance, but they are not going to improve in their next 30 or 40 matches," he argued. "They have to learn the slow way. Their official Test matches should only be against the side ranked above them, and Zimbabwe should do the same."

It would then be up to the Test-playing nations to provide A team contests with Bangladesh to allow them to build up their experience and exposure in first-class matches.

Crowe said that New Zealand hosted several Australian B teams during the 1940s, 50s and 60s as part of their learning process and they had been a significant step up for the side that blossomed in the 1970s.

But, he continued, Bangladesh keep introducing new, young players in their quest to try and win while experience was not being retained. A constant level of A cricket for the side would be a much more suitable way for lifting their basic standards to make them more competitive in the international fray.

http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/C...10NOV2004.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 10, 2004, 07:04 PM
fab fab is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: June 30, 2003
Posts: 1,476

Quote:
But he said he didn't agree with that sentiment. The New Zealand teams of the 1930s and 1940s had no money, no video analysis, no coaches and no academies, he explained.
So? Neither did their opponent teams. They all pretty much had the same disadvantages as NZ. And if NZ really were extremely disadvantaged compared to others back then, then obviously they too were given test status prematurely.

Quote:
Yet the New Zealand side of 1949 to England was still probably a better team than the current Bangladesh one.
Pure speculation. There is no way of quantifying that.

Overall I agree with his suggestions though. BD should slow down a little and play against teams in our league, such as Zimb and Kenya. This continual flogging can't be good for anyone's self esteem!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 11, 2004, 12:25 AM
shaoun shaoun is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: September 4, 2004
Location: new york city
Posts: 1,272

bangladesh needs more time. we showed that we can fight in both test and odi level. our bowling and fielding is very good. i say it is better then zimbabwe and maybe even westindies. also it is better then kenya. with masrafee coming back i think we will have a great bowling line up. batting sucks. we need time. couple of more years. and i think these guys need to stop critisizeing our team because that puts pressures on our players.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old November 11, 2004, 02:38 AM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: September 6, 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,296

Assessing the Bangladesh cricket situation, Martin Crowe was biased on their team's performance at the early years. We also had and have shortage of money and good facilities in comparison to those of other test playing countries. However, we are getting better shaped in recent days.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 11, 2004, 06:46 AM
bourny3 bourny3 is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 4, 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,199

I hate Martin Crowe. Stupid Kiwi. All the Kiwis have started to criticise Bangladesh cricket. But BD will be beating the pants of their team in 5 years time and they will be eating their words. Just you wait.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 11, 2004, 03:48 PM
bhobishshot bhobishshot is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: July 12, 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 392

What martin has suggested is a recipe for disaster. Here is what we need to do:

* Keep playing the national team at the same pace. Reducing the number of tours have no benefit for us. The only way you will learn to win is when we will stand up and keep fighting after getting humiliated by the opponent. When a child learns to walk, he or she will fall down repeatedly. What if someone had suggested that the child should take a break from trying to walk after 40 or 50 tries. Do you think the child will learn faster? Only way we will achive victory if we keep trying, and trying and trying ...

* Create very very competetive domestic cricket and as many as possible.
* First class competetion must happen every year. Make sure all the divisional teams get proper training. Have Richard McInnes carbon copy the HPU training program and apply it to the divisional teams.
* One day tournament. Have as many as you can. Don't have stop one for the other.
* Twenty20 cricket. Make it regular.

Schedule BD A team tours every year. Playing in India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan should not be too expensive. Invite the A teams of these contries. Consider playing with Canada, Ireland, Hong Kong, UAE, Namibia, etc.

Schedule U19 tours on a regular basis.

Follow this for 5 years and I can guarantee that we will start to win matches sooner than you think. Follow Martin Crowe's advise and we will probably get there in 26 years.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 11, 2004, 06:49 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 20,318

i agree with bhobishshot:

we need a team matches with india, pak, SL...also our a team should play against namibia, canada, ireland (this will also help those countries to develop cricket there and who knows maybe in a few years they will be test teams, afterall they aren't far behind BD).

also our team should continue playing as many int'l matches as is scheduled. we are discovering talented players in each tour...razzaq and nazmul are the most promising bowlers, and aftab may be the best all rounder in our history.

nafis needs to work on his batting, but so does ash and rajin.

the tests were largely dissappointing, with small flashes of fighting spirit. in the test series bangladesh earned a D grade. The ODIs showed good bowling and fielding, our boys picked up 7-8 wickets in each match including 10 in the first. The batting however brings the overall ODI grade down to a C in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 11, 2004, 07:32 PM
fab fab is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: June 30, 2003
Posts: 1,476

Quote:
Originally posted by bhobishshot
* Keep playing the national team at the same pace. Reducing the number of tours have no benefit for us. The only way you will learn to win is when we will stand up and keep fighting after getting humiliated by the opponent. When a child learns to walk, he or she will fall down repeatedly. What if someone had suggested that the child should take a break from trying to walk after 40 or 50 tries. Do you think the child will learn faster? Only way we will achive victory if we keep trying, and trying and trying ...
I don't think that analogy is correct. It is more like if a child is learning to walk, and you put it in a sprint race with 5th graders. No matter how hard the child tries, it will never be able to beat the 5th graders because it just does not have the ability. Put the child in kindergarten where it belongs and see how it does then! Sooner or later, it will catch up.

When you keep trying yet continue to fail, you should try other strategies.

Quote:
* Create very very competetive domestic cricket and as many as possible.

..

Schedule BD A team tours every year. Playing in India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan should not be too expensive. Invite the A teams of these contries. Consider playing with Canada, Ireland, Hong Kong, UAE, Namibia, etc.
Agreed. Also "Lloyd also indicated that being involved with Pakistan and Indian domestic cricket would be "another way of cranking up Bangladesh's [domestic] cricket. Bangladesh have a huge cricket-loving public that backs their team even though they are not doing extremely well at the moment. But once the [national] team performs in both Test and one-day arenas then it augurs well."

cricinfo: llyod impressed with venues

Edited on, November 12, 2004, 12:42 AM GMT, by fab.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 11, 2004, 10:06 PM
bourny3 bourny3 is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 4, 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,199

bhobishshot your suggestions are perfect and everyone wants these things to happen. But the BCB still wont do it. Why?? They still want to fail.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 11, 2004, 10:25 PM
Tintin Tintin is offline
Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: August 23, 2003
Posts: 3,490

>> * Keep playing the national team at the same pace.

>> * Create very very competetive domestic cricket and as many as possible.

These two clash with each other. For the domestic competition to be competitive and draw the crowds, the players in the national team should be able to take part.

BCB has expanded the fc competition to 10 rounds, yet has scheduled a series with India in December, Zim in Jan and SL in March. Someone playing for the country will be able to take part in only two of those ten matches (the two rounds in Feb).

Edited on, November 12, 2004, 3:27 AM GMT, by Tintin.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 11, 2004, 11:44 PM
bourny3 bourny3 is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 4, 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,199

Where is the schedule for the first class matches Tintin.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 12, 2004, 12:20 AM
Tintin Tintin is offline
Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: August 23, 2003
Posts: 3,490

http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2.../SCHEDULE.html
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 12, 2004, 03:01 PM
bhobishshot bhobishshot is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: July 12, 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 392

Quote:
Originally posted by Tintin
>> * Keep playing the national team at the same pace.

>> * Create very very competetive domestic cricket and as many as possible.

These two clash with each other. For the domestic competition to be competitive and draw the crowds, the players in the national team should be able to take part.

Edited on, November 12, 2004, 3:27 AM GMT, by Tintin.
I don't see that as a contradiction. Only 13 will be playing in the National team. We have plenty of national discards that can take part in the domestic competetion to prove their worthiness in the National sqaud. In my personal view, it could be made competitive without those 13/14/15 national squad players. And they should definitely play in the domestic tournament when they are not playing with other nations.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 12, 2004, 03:41 PM
bhobishshot bhobishshot is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: July 12, 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 392

Quote:
Originally posted by fab
Quote:
Originally posted by bhobishshot
* Keep playing the national team at the same pace. Reducing the number of tours have no benefit for us. The only way you will learn to win is when we will stand up and keep fighting after getting humiliated by the opponent. When a child learns to walk, he or she will fall down repeatedly. What if someone had suggested that the child should take a break from trying to walk after 40 or 50 tries. Do you think the child will learn faster? Only way we will achive victory if we keep trying, and trying and trying ...
I don't think that analogy is correct. It is more like if a child is learning to walk, and you put it in a sprint race with 5th graders. No matter how hard the child tries, it will never be able to beat the 5th graders because it just does not have the ability. Put the child in kindergarten where it belongs and see how it does then! Sooner or later, it will catch up.

When you keep trying yet continue to fail, you should try other strategies.
I don't think the analogy was that far off. When they walk they walk strait and get to the end line. When we try to walk, we wabble, stumble, and haven't gotten to the finish line yet. I don't think the difference between us and the rest of the nations are that enormous. Yes, there is a big difference, but it is definitely not 5th grade vs kindergarten. But, that is just my persional beleif.

I agree with you 100% that we should try to come up with a new stratagies. But, I would NOT include reduction in number of tours by national squad in the new stratagy. My new stratagy would consists of regular domestic competetion (specially the longer version), regular training and coaching at the divisional level, regular tours by A team and lots of it, Invitation of other A teams and associate members, regular tours by the U19 squad and lots of it, etc, etc.

Edited on, November 12, 2004, 8:42 PM GMT, by bhobishshot.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 13, 2004, 10:02 PM
DOORBIN DOORBIN is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: December 31, 2002
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 443

I agree with the original proposal of bhobishshot and wish people like him were in BCB. I also wish this thread is read by the BCB officials.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old November 14, 2004, 01:51 AM
bourny3 bourny3 is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 4, 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,199

Quote:
Originally posted by Tintin
http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2.../SCHEDULE.html
Tintin that is last seasons competition.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old November 14, 2004, 02:20 AM
Tintin Tintin is offline
Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: August 23, 2003
Posts: 3,490

Oops ! Sorry bourny.

Then everything that I said about the players being available for only two matches is wrong
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old November 14, 2004, 05:56 AM
Zephaniah Zephaniah is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: February 14, 2004
Posts: 1,152

Quote:
Originally posted by bhobishshot
Quote:
Originally posted by Tintin
>> * Keep playing the national team at the same pace.

>> * Create very very competetive domestic cricket and as many as possible.

These two clash with each other. For the domestic competition to be competitive and draw the crowds, the players in the national team should be able to take part.

Edited on, November 12, 2004, 3:27 AM GMT, by Tintin.
I don't see that as a contradiction. Only 13 will be playing in the National team. We have plenty of national discards that can take part in the domestic competetion to prove their worthiness in the National sqaud. In my personal view, it could be made competitive without those 13/14/15 national squad players. And they should definitely play in the domestic tournament when they are not playing with other nations.
Well I understand that was last season's fixture. But this year's fixture will be the same in terms of length of the competition. I do think it's very much possible to involve national players (13/14/15 of them) in our national league and keep playing international cricket at current rate. It will take very few brain cells to come up with a domestic cricket calender that revolves around international fixtures. What is the length of time we play 4-days cricket again? 3 months in a year? Thats bloody short! We can have same 10 round of national league matches being played over the period of six months. And during international fixtures, BCB can invite A-teams/Academy teams/Ranji teams (whoever available) to play with our A-teams OR arrange something for our u-19 teams. Thus we'll have a healthy competition for national team selection as those performing well in A-team matches will create pressure on 30s/40s scoring 'happy chappy' in the national squad.

European football fixture or English Premiereship fixture for that matter can be a good 'notional' model to resrtucture our domestic cricket calender. At the start of the season Premiereship club teams play a number of games untill there is a break for a week or couple of week for UEFA competitions/World Cup qualifying matches or EURO qualifying matches for national teams. But during that break less important domestic tournaments (Curling Cup etc) are still on, which are mainly played by 2nd string teams of the clubs and also young potantial players. After that break domestic clubs resume playing the Premiereship till X-mas break when generally some international friendlies are lined up for English national team. This sequence repeats couple of times to accomodate all international fixtures within domestic football calender. Thus national players play 9 months a year which always keep them competitive in the international scene, and football mad English crowd get to see the 'beautiful game' all year round. Sponsors are happy with such arrangement too. Ultimately its a win-win situation.

My request to BCB officials/management - please use some brain cells for a change. You're paid handsome money and allowed to think. Just do it!

Edited on, November 14, 2004, 11:07 AM GMT, by Zephaniah.
Reason: sarcasm added
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old November 14, 2004, 06:41 AM
Zephaniah Zephaniah is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: February 14, 2004
Posts: 1,152

Quote:
Originally posted by bhobishshot
What martin has suggested is a recipe for disaster. Here is what we need to do:

* Keep playing the national team at the same pace. Reducing the number of tours have no benefit for us. The only way you will learn to win is when we will stand up and keep fighting after getting humiliated by the opponent. When a child learns to walk, he or she will fall down repeatedly. What if someone had suggested that the child should take a break from trying to walk after 40 or 50 tries. Do you think the child will learn faster? Only way we will achive victory if we keep trying, and trying and trying ...

* Create very very competetive domestic cricket and as many as possible.
* First class competetion must happen every year. Make sure all the divisional teams get proper training. Have Richard McInnes carbon copy the HPU training program and apply it to the divisional teams.
* One day tournament. Have as many as you can. Don't have stop one for the other.
* Twenty20 cricket. Make it regular.

Schedule BD A team tours every year. Playing in India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan should not be too expensive. Invite the A teams of these contries. Consider playing with Canada, Ireland, Hong Kong, UAE, Namibia, etc.

Schedule U19 tours on a regular basis.

Follow this for 5 years and I can guarantee that we will start to win matches sooner than you think. Follow Martin Crowe's advise and we will probably get there in 26 years.
Agree. I'd like to add couple of more points.....

* We need to have a proper domestic cricket calender where all forms of cricket are being played 9 months a year (rainy season/flood season as official vacation period)

* Professionalism in all aspect of the game - from groundsmen to chief selector, players to Mr. Lobby. Everyone should be paid according to their performance. Reward for good performance and and some sort of wage-cut for continuous failure. The whole game should be structured - be it selection process for national team (i.e. good performance in domestic cricket or with U-19 ---> A-team ---> National team) or appointing right people for BCB management.

* Allow international class foreign bowlers in domestic cricket. BCB can set sensible guidelines for club teams to recruit international class players limited to 1/2 per team. This will be crowd puller as well as good for our budding talents to observe international class in close vicinity. BCB can allow those foreign players only to a specific tournament or can introduced, if possible, a 2-day match (100 over per team) tournament where those foreign players will be allowed. In a nut-shell we need QUALITY domestic cricket.

* Spread the game all over the country. Use those lovely stadiums. I understand BCB has loads of money, so that should not be a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old November 14, 2004, 10:38 AM
AsifTheManRahman's Avatar
AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
Super Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,675

This might be a bit off topic, but it's an observation that I've made. Whenever we introduce a new, young member to the team, we have high expectations on him. It's ok to have expectations, but the problem is that unless you have a couple of already experienced batsmen doing well more or less consistently, you can'y expect a youngster to shine in the squad. Look at India - Yuvraj and Kaif both came in under the shadows of the likes of Saurav, Sachin and Rahul, who constitute the best batting line up in the world. Look at Matthew Clarke - he came in when Australia were (and they still are) an unbeatabel side, with all the batsmen scoring runs. Similarly, look at Mathew Sinclair, Mahela Jayawardene, Kumar Sangakkara, Salman Butt, etc etc etc. All these guys could do well because although they probably were in a lot of pressure during matches, other batsmen were also scoring runs regularly, which meant that the team could depend on other people. For us, when Ashraful came in and scored that century, we had high hopes on him mainly because we don't have too many batsmen in our team who can score big almost every alternate match or so. A junior member in the team should be there to learn from the seniors, apply his innocence of youth and fresh blood and develop into a senior himself, with the ability to take on huge responsibilities on his shoulders. This does not happen in Bangladesh. The youngster coming in is probably the best batsman of his time. This is simply bull s**t. Unless we have a pool of consistent and experienced players already performing, we can't expect anything from the junior players, since they need some amount of relief from pressure when coming on to the scene, instead of just having to feel all the pressure from the moment they face the first ball.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old November 17, 2004, 04:59 PM
Zephaniah Zephaniah is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: February 14, 2004
Posts: 1,152

AsifTheManRahman. Now you have what you were looking for - Sanwar Hussain.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket