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  #1  
Old December 12, 2004, 11:39 PM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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Default Positives? and things to consider for the second test!

Ok now that the first test is over, its time for introspection. This was a test match between 2 unequal teams in terms of ability,experience and pretty much in every other aspect, no doubt about it. What we, Bangladeshi fans, really wanted was for the Tigers to put up a fight, to do the simple things right, to show that they are improving. Our top order batting once again let us down, an understatement! Our catching was atrocious, and we may have had a much more even match if we had managed to get our basics right. Missing the kind of catches that we did should be made a punishable offense. And Bashar is not slip fielding material. He just doesn't have a safe pair of hands. He should consider fielding somewhere else. Mashrafee, on the otherhand is!

But there were some positives as well. Since we have been talking about the negatives ad nauseum lets talk a little bit about the positives as well.

1. Mashrafee Bin Murtoza
What a comeback he has made. Irfan bowled well but I believe Mashrafee would have had a 5-fer as well if the catches were held and he had an opportunity to have a crack at the lower order earlier in the innings! But that is my opinion. The hunger, the pride and the aggression in his eyes were what I would like to see in every Tiger's eyes. His presence changes the whole complexion of our team. If we can have one more terway with his ability, attitude and aggresion, our bowling won't look all that toothless anymore.

2. Mohammad Ashraful
His 60 not out in the first innings was class! The wicket was extremely hard to bat on with the ball darting and swinging around, but he played with such authority and looked completely untroubled by Pathan our nemesis. He was unlucky in the second innings, and one could see the anger and disapointment in his eyes as he sat with the computer analyst to see replays of his dismissal afterwards. He looks hungry and eager to make his talent and ability count. I can only hope he will get it on in the second test.

3. Manjarul Islam Raana
His bowling was not quite what the team would have wanted from him, but he made it up with fighting performances with the bat and was highest aggregate run scorer for Bangladesh! Congratulations to him on his maiden 50. I particularly enjoyed the way he played Irfan Pathan i.e. with scant respect! I really think we could have done much better with a couple of quality LHBs amongst our top order to counter Irfan's awkward inswing. He is half the bowler he is when bowling to LHBs.

4. Nafis Iqbal
He showed why he is considered one of country's top young prospects. He batted calmly in both innings, and is obviously hungry for runs. He is a proud young man, and he will have a long future with the national team provided he continues to work hard and keeps his fee firmly on the ground. His maiden 50 was a gritty and gutsy innings but I am sure he is capable of really big scores.


The upcoming tour by Zimbabwe is the most important one for us. We must look at this series to get the key players ready for that tour. Having played India, we will be taking a step down in class as far as the oppostion is concerned. I am hoping with some more positives under our belt in the rest of the Indian tour, we will be primed up for the Zimbabweans. Keeping that in mind, I would rest Mashrafee and bring in Talha and Nazmul for the second test just to see where they stand as far as bowling in tests is concerned. Mashrafee did look stiff on the morning of the third day and we should be very careful with him.

And we need to counter Pathan's early inroads into our batting line-up. I would also like to open with one LHB, and Rana is the ideal one for me. Javed Omar can be brought in down the order. He has done pretty decent lower down the order on a couple of occasions. Rajin should be "rested" because he looks low on confidence, and should look to play some domestic cricket to gain his confidence back before the Zimbo tour. Mushfique babu is not test material in my opinon. He is ideal for ODIs, and should look to become an ODI specialist bowler.
So I wonder how would the following lineup look?

Manjarul Islam Rana
Nafis Iqbal
Habibul Bashar
Mohammad Ashraful
Aftab Ahmed
Javed Omar
Khaled Mashud
Mohammad Rafique
Tapash baisya
Talha Jubair
Nazmul Hossain

What do you guys think?



Edited on, December 13, 2004, 10:58 PM GMT, by pompous.
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  #2  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:02 AM
Imtiaz Imtiaz is offline
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I concur with your team except Rana, not being Superman yet, cannot bat at No.1 and No.8 unless you meant that he would not be amongst the first six to get out !

I would like to see Bashar [ Have-a-Bash ] go in at No.5. False Bangalee pride might prevent this happening. He needs protection early on. Aftab should go in at No.3.

Mashud should go back to No.7. He is a dogged resistor ! But not quite the full article. The early collapse in both the innings' exposed him to the opening bowling and like others he too was found wanting.

Manjarul Islam Rana
Nafis Iqbal
Aftab Ahmed
Mohammad Ashraful
Habibul Bashar
Alok Kapali / Hannan Sarkar / Mushfiqur Rahman / Any Left-hander
Khaled Mashud
Mohammad Rafique
Tapash Baisya
Talha Jubair
Nazmul Hossain

The squad announced is one batsman short !
No.6 , in my opinion, should be, wait for it, Kapali. I would even consider Hannan Sarkar but only at this position. I feel the boy basically is a sound batsman. His Australian scores are proof. A horrendous experience against Collins and Franklin has simply gutted his confidence. But that could be said of Rajin and Omar and others too !

A left-handed batsman would be ideal but not Faisal Hossain.

That's why you will find that Mushfique cannot be dropped. After all, he also does the stock bowlers job. He also does not drop too many catches ! He is probably the fittest player.
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  #3  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:23 AM
Cricketislife! Cricketislife! is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imtiaz
I would like to see Bashar [ Have-a-Bash ] go in at No.5. False Bangalee pride might prevent this happening. He needs protection early on. Aftab should go in at No.3.

I will stay with Bashar. He plays the ball late and is suitable to handle the swing, doesnt thrust his left foot across as some of the other top order. He will have prob early on anytime he comes in cos of his rash tendency to hook or pull before he has settled down. thats the only thing he has to see, not completely cut out the stroke but jus be careful with its execution, settle down, get used to the bounce, get few runs n time under his belt before he ventures out with that shot.. but considering his comments, maybe thats too much to ask of him..!

CiL
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  #4  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:26 AM
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Hehe...I realised the mistake, and I changed it. I don't think you saw that before you posted.

I am tempted to consider Kaps! But I think it may be wiser tobring him back in the ODIs and then for the tests against the Zimbos. Let him enjoy the domestic leagues a bit more.
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  #5  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:37 AM
sangeet sangeet is offline
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Radical change is coming, i feel. Already selectors met last night to discuss about 2nd Test line up, and they are going to come up with 14 player squad.

We need just 2 guys to fend off Pathan's first spell of 7/8 overs.

Source NTv or Channel I sports news (dont remember which one).
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  #6  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:24 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Rajin out from the final eleven
Mashrafee rested for the 2nd test
Talha replaces Mashrafee
Nazmul replaces Mushfique
Aftab replaces Rajin

Source: newspapers

Pompous, did you see the papers and then selected the original post in this thread?
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  #7  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:57 AM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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No I didn't...hehe...but then its not rocket science, and if what you say is true then selectors have seen what should be common sense to us


Quote:
Originally posted by fwullah
Rajin out from the final eleven
Mashrafee rested for the 2nd test
Talha replaces Mashrafee
Nazmul replaces Mushfique
Aftab replaces Rajin

Source: newspapers

Pompous, did you see the papers and then selected the original post in this thread?
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  #8  
Old December 13, 2004, 09:06 AM
oracle oracle is offline
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I have serious issues with Rana opening. This is partly to do with a lingering traditional mindset, i.e I want a technically adept batsman at no. one, the best batsman in the country. Yes, the idea of a leftie at the opening slot makes sense against Pathan but Rana, i feel Rana is best suited at no 5, i.e lower down the order. All this points the finger at Ash opening which is Dave's greatest gamble as we are offering a prize lamb to slaughter if he manages another series of ducks.

The same argument goes for the bad idea of having Rafique at 1 for tests, a no no. Although for ODIs the case of Rafique at 1 slot makes much more sense because of his good run rate. Hence for the ODI's I think Dave can revert back to the "Jayasurya" experiment.

So the conclusion is we don't see any prospects of a Test level leftie for our opening slot which would make me keep the existing order as it is even though the outcome is predictable and grave.

I think it was a mistake to omit Aftab. He would have been a good fielder and moreover I would have counted my chickens with some of his medium pacers. The problem is If I want Alok and him in the team I am at a fix on who the guy to axe?

Finally bring back Alok. By far one of th ebest fielders in the horozon and anywat since most of the batsmen are only getting at best 10 or 20 runs I would rather go for a gamble and have him in, at worst he ghets his trademark 20 s or as I am hoping he gets his fluke act together and makes with the bat at last. The bonus is his fielding and the extra option of his bowling would relive some pressure, which I believe has nort deteriorated as his batting.

Edited on, December 13, 2004, 2:08 PM GMT, by oracle.
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  #9  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:49 PM
chyicarus chyicarus is offline
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I would be tempted to go with another batsmen here. How many batsmen are India playing? 6- isn't it? Thats why they posted such a huge total! I would have to think hard about omitting Rajin(i'd give him another shot) and have Mashrafee rested and replaced by Talha and Mushfiq should also be rested! We will have Aftab playing the all-rounder role while Rajin can bowl if its a turning track!
Positives are Rana's batting, Nafis finally finding his feet and the bowlers persistency! I would've dropped Rana for Enamul if he hadn't scored that 50.
I'd rather not even mention the negatives, becoz already i have gotten reprimanded for posting a positive criticism!!!
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  #10  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oracle
Finally bring back Alok....I am hoping he gets his fluke act together and makes with the bat at last...
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  #11  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:24 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Happy

- Rafique's bowling
- Musrafee's bowling
- Tapash's bowling
- Rajin's throw in that 1st Innings run-out
- Ashraful's 1st Inning's Batting
- Rana's both innings batting
- Nafis's 2nd Iniings batting
- Rafique's 1st innings.


- Rajin's both iniings batting
- Javed's both iniings batting
- Bashar's both iniings batting
- Mushfique's every thing.
- Rajin's droped catch
- Bashar's dropped catch
- Nafis's dropped catch
- Pilot's missed runout opportunity
- Rana's bowling. I thought he was a better bowler.
- too many things that can be mentioned....

Factor

- Mushfique's two wicket. Wonder how he got those.
- Rana's 69.
- Musrafee and Tapash's bowling specially first few spells.
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  #12  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:24 PM
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Ehsan Ehsan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pompous

Manjarul Islam Rana
Nafis Iqbal
Habibul Bashar
Mohammad Ashraful
Aftab Ahmed
Javed Omar
Khaled Mashud
Mohammad Rafique
Tapash baisya
Talha Jubair
Nazmul Hossain

What do you guys think?
This looks perfect. We definitely need a leftie to open and Javed seems quite comfortable with spinners. The one good thing about javed is if he settles in then he won't give away his wicket, his wicket then becomes like his life.

But I would like to put up Javed before Aftab in the batting order.
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  #13  
Old December 13, 2004, 05:36 PM
indiaman007 indiaman007 is offline
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My ratings for the Bangla players;

1. Nafees - 6 - played confidently in the second innings when the team was in a difficult situation. Looks like a good find for Bangladesh.
2. Omar - 2 - Very tentative starter, never looked like scoring any runs. Bring back AlShahriar or Sarkar.
3. Basher - 2 - terrible performance. We Indians regarded him as Bangladesh's dangerman, but he turned out to be a paper tiger. Although, I reckon he'll make up for this performance at Chittagong, he is a very good batsman.
4. Rajin - 0 - Dont bother retaining a batsman who made a pair.
5. Ashraful - 6 - He's a class act. Definately the most confident and technically correct Bangladeshi batsman. Looked very composed and had a lot of time to play his shots. Had he not gone for a duck in 2nd innings, i wouldve given him a 7.
6. Mashud - 2 - Poor performance behind the stumps. The wicketkeeper is the most important player on the fielding side, and his blunders cost Bangladesh dearly.
7. Manjural - 7 - Went after the Indian bowlers and played a very good knock in the 2nd innings. Deserves to be moved up the order...
8. Mushfiqar - 0 - Cant bat, cant bowl. Drop him.
9. Rafiq - 5 - disappointing. He bowled tightly against the batsmen, but didnt look incisive at all. Played a superb first innings knock though - he looks better than most Bangla top order batsman. Deserves to be moved up the order.
10. Tapash - 4 - bowled well in patches, but no real consistency. He was a threat early in the morning through, and looks like a good prospect. Needs to be persisted with.
11. Mortaza - 6 - Looked dangerous at times and the movement he extracted from the pitch was remarkable. Not very consistent with his L&L, but he still looks like a good bowler - was incredibly unlucky not to get more than 2 wickets.

Edited on, December 13, 2004, 10:37 PM GMT, by indiaman007.

Edited on, December 13, 2004, 10:38 PM GMT, by indiaman007.
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  #14  
Old December 13, 2004, 06:16 PM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Nice post Pompous.

INDIAMAN - thanks for your post. Good to see some opinions not tainted by abuse.
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  #15  
Old December 13, 2004, 08:02 PM
bourny3 bourny3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by indiaman007

8. Mushfiqar - 0 - Cant bat, cant bowl. Drop him.
[/i]
Except for this. Can he throw though. He could be Scott Muller.
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  #16  
Old December 13, 2004, 09:06 PM
AussieBloke AussieBloke is offline
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So many combinations.....which one to go for? Heres my advice (based on the discussions I had with my older brother who is also an avid tiger-follower):

1) Stop the trend of 4/5 wickets down for meager runs at the start of an innings. This means that someone has to see out the new ball. Since javed omar has regularly failed to do that (becoz of his inept batting and shuffling), our 3 or 4th batsmen literally become openers. And as we have found, they lack the mentality to stay in the crease (whichever position they bat) when the ball is new and swinging. The collapse of the top order is very closely related to this fact that the openers fail to take the shine off the ball, so that batting becomes easier for batsmen to follow. So whichever opener combination we select, it has to be their primary responsibility to take the shine off the new ball without losing wicket. if that means that we go for only 30 or 40 runs in the first 20 overs, then so be it. But the openers must see out the new ball without losing any wicket for at least 20 overs. Do we have players who can do that at the moment?

2) Take away the captaincy from Bashar. he doesnt have the IQ of an 11 year old. I am simply speechless to understand why in the field when the batsmen are freely scoring he doesnt try something new, maybe give a part-timer couple of overs. Whats the harm? We gonna be belted anyway, but try something. I was specifically irked at him giving Mushfiqur rahman a lengthy spell when he was being belted all over the ground. This raises another question: what the hell do whatmore and bashar talk before the match? Why doesnt whatmore tell bashar that when things get tight, try something new? or is it that whatmore doesnt know these things or doesnt want to convey his wisdom to bashar? is bashar really that dumb, or he just doesnt have the IQ necessary to be a captain?

Better GIVE THE CAPTAINCY BACK to Pilot. he is a far better captain than bashar would ever become. Its time we have a captain with a little bit of yellow stuff up there, instead of someone who became captain by default (direct interventions by the selectors)

3) Under the circumstances, drop bashar behind poliot and elevate pilot up the order. Pilot is at the moment much more consistent than bashar, and we need consistency.

4) Bashar should not stand at slip anymore. he is not that good a slips fielder, give someone else a chance. if Bashar thinks that like Ricky Ponting or Stephen Fleming, he should also stand in the slips, then he better think twice. he is not that agile and his hand placements are all wrong (contributing to dropped catches).

5) Javed Omar is a no no at this point, so is Hannan Sarkar. Golla will get out lbw many times becoz of his basic flaw: shuffling across the wicket. No matter how many innings he plays, we will witness this over and over again. Its his natural movement. I dont think at this point in his career he can remodel his batting technique. So it would not be wise of the selectors to select him..either as opener or as a middle-order. No longer can we automatically select him based on his decade old feat (lol): carrying his bat throughout the innings. Its what his form at the moment and his batting flaw that should dictate whether he is selected or not.

6) Final advice: for Whatmore. We really need to know what sort of chat he normally has with the team and the captain before a match. Why is such basic stuff as rotating the bowlers, trying a part-time bowler to break the rhythm of batsmen etc. missing in the field? Doesnt the coach know that he has to tell his pupils these sorts of things? We can no longer rely on the intelligence of our players (otherwise why would they commit the same offense over and over again). I think I read in some article in cricketinfo that BD batsmen suffer from inability to learn from their mistakes. If that is true..and I think it is...then whatmore needs to tell his pupils what needs to be done under trying conditions. I am surprised that he hasnt done this yet? has he? if he has, why arent we seeing those instructions materialize?
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  #17  
Old December 13, 2004, 09:22 PM
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Beamer Beamer is offline
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Nicely put AussieBloke! Great observations. I wish they could read this.
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  #18  
Old December 14, 2004, 06:45 AM
Shish Ahmed Shish Ahmed is offline
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If Nazmul does replace Mushfiq, Nazmul is a better bowler and batsmen than him.

Nazmul is no mug with the bat, he proved that when he toured England.
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  #19  
Old December 14, 2004, 07:58 PM
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Let Rana remain where he is scoring runs.


Actually, now that I come to think about it, Rana seems to have the ability to score in any position! He scored as an opener, and was then brought down the order where he scored in the Asia cup. Then he scored 69 against India in the last test. Super man, eh? I just hope he doesn't end up like Alok or Saleh. If he does, I'll make sure I kick his butt (live) .
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