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  #1  
Old December 13, 2004, 04:41 AM
vv_sunil vv_sunil is offline
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Default whatmore speaks...

http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/C...13DEC2004.html
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  #2  
Old December 13, 2004, 07:12 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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Dav Whatmore once again pleaded with Bangladeshi fans to give their team a chance. "You must remember that not long ago we came within a whisker of winning in Multan," he said, after Bangladesh lost by an innings and 140 runs to India at the Bangabandhu stadium. "I can feel your frustration. Yes, the whole country's frustration, I can feel it. But I plead with everyone to please have some more patience. But the boys aren't doing this intentionally. They are working as hard as they can possibly to overcome [their flaws] to some degree. As long as you are showing some improvement, you give yourself a chance. Don't forget the opposition is pretty good, whoever we play."

Whatmore, who wears his passion for coaching and for this Bangladesh team on his sleeve, slammed Bangladesh's critics for suggesting that they were making a mockery of Test cricket. "That is absolute rubbish," he said. "I think that is a very shallow view. That is one that comes from looking at the scoreboard. You need to understand the game and understand the situation that Bangladesh is in globally. Those are very dangerous comments."
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  #3  
Old December 13, 2004, 07:15 AM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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As long as they are learning, and the teacher knows the best about his students, I'm willing to give chances after chances.
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  #4  
Old December 13, 2004, 07:22 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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May God help him, if not the boy's help him.
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  #5  
Old December 13, 2004, 09:24 AM
Ibrahim Ibrahim is offline
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Only a great perosn can talk like this, I do agree with him.
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  #6  
Old December 13, 2004, 09:30 AM
oracle oracle is offline
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Quote:
May God help him, if not the boy's help him.
On the question of help and who is to receive it :Besides the obvious focus on th e team, has anyone pondered the thought that the fans might need some help too. Going in game after game and carrying the burden of a win expectation every time could be a futile exercise. As Whatmore said, "Don't just look at the scorecard." He is there everyday and may see things that we cannot detect.
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  #7  
Old December 13, 2004, 10:04 AM
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James90 James90 is offline
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Quote:
Don't forget the opposition is pretty good, whoever we play
Where did he pull that from?
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  #8  
Old December 13, 2004, 10:07 AM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Whatmore is very right in saying one thing.. that all the negative criticism all over is very cruel!

not only it destroys the confidence of a growing team.. but also.. BD is probably the very first test team who are having to face such pressure from critics.

all the previous teams got relaxed times to come to standard level.

our current frustration in players/fans.. results not only from the failures.. but also from the negative attitute by the rest of the world not to tolerate the failure!!

surely it has lot to do with the very recent all-out commercialization of cricket!!

Edited on, December 13, 2004, 3:20 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.
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  #9  
Old December 13, 2004, 11:37 AM
aosaif aosaif is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by crickethorizon
Whatmore is very right in saying one thing.. that all the negative criticism all over is very cruel!

not only it destroys the confidence of a growing team.. but also.. BD is probably the very first test team who are having to face such pressure from critics.

all the previous teams got relaxed times to come to standard level.

our current frustration in players/fans.. results not only from the failures.. but also from the negative attitute by the rest of the world not to tolerate the failure!!

surely it has lot to do with the very recent all-out commercialization of cricket!!

Edited on, December 13, 2004, 3:20 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.

Here here, truth be told. The telling of truth is good when it is true.
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  #10  
Old December 13, 2004, 11:45 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Forget about Fans. When a very well respected superstar and genuine BD Cricket fan like Wasim Akram says how the team pretty much quit on the team and not putting 100% effort, Wahtmore's comment looks to me is just PR effort and to save is own a[][]!!!
http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...d.php?tid=8187

Also see the headlines in cricinfo
""Learning disability" - cricinfo

As a outsider, I see no gradual improvement at all in the batting and fielding. And then you hear all these negative but "looks more truthful analysis" from 3rd party anlysts, whom should we believe!

For a regular fans like me, I see no hope !!!
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  #11  
Old December 13, 2004, 11:58 AM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chinaman
Quotes:
Whatmore said. "I think that is a very shallow view. That is one that comes from looking at the scoreboard. You need to understand the game."
Show me a person who does not respect Whatmore and I'll show you an idiot.

What an appropriate comment. The scoreboard wont say it but we were very close to make Indian fans pee on their pants. If Tendu and Shourov's first catches were caught ...
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  #12  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:10 PM
aosaif aosaif is offline
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Whatr u talking about? Wasim Akram is not a "genuine BD cricket fan." Maybe he wants to see us do well, but only true bd fans know that the future is going to get pretty rosy for our cricket. Thats why we stick with our team.

Whatmore PR huh? Honestly where do you come from? In my opinion, our team has more natural talent then sri lankans (no offence to them, i'm just a loyal bd fan). Its just that given our inexperience and poor domestic structure, we're not able to groom the players toworld class standards just yet. But it will happen within the next 10 years i reckon.


Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Forget about Fans. When a very well respected superstar and genuine BD Cricket fan like Wasim Akram says how the team pretty much quit on the team and not putting 100% effort, Wahtmore's comment looks to me is just PR effort and to save is own a[][]!!!
http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...d.php?tid=8187

Also see the headlines in cricinfo
""Learning disability" - cricinfo

As a outsider, I see no gradual improvement at all in the batting and fielding. And then you hear all these negative but "looks more truthful analysis" from 3rd party anlysts, whom should we believe!

For a regular fans like me, I see no hope !!!
: great:
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  #13  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:16 PM
chyicarus chyicarus is offline
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India outplayed BD in every dept. In Test cricket you can't afford any lapses, bowling, fielding and not to mention batting.
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  #14  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:26 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chyicarus
India outplayed BD in every dept. In Test cricket you can't afford any lapses, bowling, fielding and not to mention batting.
this is exactly the kind of negative criticism and demoralizations I am talking about!

when previous developing cricket teams were in their shakey stages.. no one on earth used to bother.. n now.. insensible critics like these r all over n everywhere.. !!

these people's concern is no where near the developement of cricket in the minnow nations.. they only bother about the massive 'business value' of the game of TEST cricket!
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  #15  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:33 PM
chyicarus chyicarus is offline
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excuse me sir, but do you understand english? where do you see me criticising BD? In fact if you give my posting to read to some English teacher he will think you're overreacting about something that isn't even mentioned in the sentence!!! You can be an admin or whatever, but my post explains exactly what had happened!!!
India definitely outplayed BD- otherwise why would BD lose? Becoz they felt like losing? Yes, anyone and everyone who is a cricketer will agree that Test cricket rarely gives you a second chance! They were outplayed in every dept, if we had dropped catches, if we hadn't batted poorly, if we had mopped up the tail- do you think we would still be arguing? No sir, we would have been eagerly waiting for the 5th day!!!
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  #16  
Old December 13, 2004, 12:58 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chyicarus
excuse me sir, but do you understand english? where do you see me criticising BD? In fact if you give my posting to read to some English teacher.....
Thanx for the english lesson.. but i already got my english teacher
n u don need to call me 'sir'

Quote:
Originally posted by chyicarus
...In Test cricket you can't afford any lapses, bowling, fielding and not to mention batting.
and here is something from u'r post tht caught my eye..
mentioning the 'Elegance' of 'Test Cricket' and critically dissecting the 'Raw difference' of Test crickte level n BD standard.. in every occation! (not implying tht it isn't true.. but rather saying.. that its real pointless to go back to that over n over again!)

If you'r intension was not to do so.. then total apologies..!

but hei.. these is the kind of words that are not really sensible!
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  #17  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:01 PM
chyicarus chyicarus is offline
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so what words should i be using?
Why did Ind lose to Aus in their home series? Simple- they were outplayed, outwitted and outclassed!!!
Why did Pak won against BD in Multan- simple, they were outwitted and outclassed!!!
These sentences does not demean the losing team my friend!!!
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  #18  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:07 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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I have to agree with chyicarus here - We can only afford so many lapses when we play at the highest echelons of the game. Perhaps it is stating the obvious and people are getting tired of hearing the obvious - but it is a valid comment. It does not imply that we do not belong in Test cricket but it does imply that we have to bring it up a notch to be competitive.

It is basically doing a SWOT analysis - why aren't we performing to our expectations and abilitiies? Find the weaknesses and work on them. Perhaps we will then not be outclasses, outwitted and outplayed.

as myself....
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  #19  
Old December 13, 2004, 01:56 PM
Ganesh Ganesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by crickethorizon
our current frustration in players/fans.. results not only from the failures.. but also from the negative attitute by the rest of the world not to tolerate the failure!!

Edited on, December 13, 2004, 3:20 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.
I don't agree with this sentiment. No doubt, rest of the world has been hitting out Bangladesh. That is not because they hate. People remember Lanka and Zimbabwe. Lankans of 80s and Zimbabwe of 90s showed more character than Bangladesh so far has. I am really sorry to say that. I hope people don't get annoyed by an Indian criticising Bangladeshi cricket. I don't mean to p**s of people out here. I am trying to state my mind clearly.

Zimbabwe have gone down in the last 2 years due to political turmoil though. All the same when Murray Goodwin, Neil Johnson, Andy Flower, Campbell, Grant Flower, Heath Streak and Paul Strang were together in late 90s, they did look pretty darn good. They beat Pakistan and India in odd Tests. Andy Flower was a class batsman. Murray Goodwin was pretty good too. Heath Streak has 200 wickets at avg of 27. Too bad many of their careers have been cut short due to race politics. Sri Lanka of 80s produced Ranatunga, 2 Ratnayakes, Aravinda, Mendia and Dias. Fringe players in both SL of 80s and Zim of 90s were pretty ordinary. Bangladesh's record is worse than the other two. May be they are playing way too much cricket and repeated losses is killing their confidence. May be they got their test status 3-4 years earlier. They shouldn't be stripped of the status at this stage now that they have been there and know what it takes. Another 3-4 years, they may just get better with new crop learning from the mistakes of oldies. There is one area I am really p**sed with Bangladesh. That is their fielding. I feel no amount of criricism is enough for Bangladeshi fielding.
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  #20  
Old December 13, 2004, 02:04 PM
oracle oracle is offline
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Quote:
There is one area I am really p**sed with Bangladesh. That is their fielding. I feel no amount of criricism is enough for Bangladeshi fielding.
Actually, in my opinion and based on observation, fielding in the earlier matches was sharp, at least in the Windies series. As such, I will hold on the criticism of fielding in the last match as it could be dip which is detracting from the general progress that BD has made in this area since gaining test status. I safely say that since getting test status the fielding has been an area that has improved markedly.

However, Ganesh, you are right about observations made about SL. They started out with good set of talents whereas BD can name perhaps only 2 guys at the moment.
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  #21  
Old December 13, 2004, 02:47 PM
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I want to know what kind of instruction is given to Bashar if any, about his pull shots. He also does not know the batting basics and looks like a rastar cricketer most of the time he bats. How hard can it be to not pull for 1 test as a start? As a captain he is supposed to try the hardest of all in trying to fix individual errors.

I really really feel like asking this question to Bashar and Dav, why why this basic flaw is not fixed yet.

Also I feel that the team did not get any instruction on how to play Irfan, or if they did they did not follow it. If players do not follow any instructions what are the consequences.

I feel like our team especially the batting side do not go to the field with some goals to accomplish or game plan. Each player should get instruction on what his goal is today. The selectors BCB should get the report of what their plan was and how they executed and why they failed to execute. Then take it from there. Eventually we fans would also want to get that status.

We need to know what is going on within this team, since from outside I am clueless how this is possible.
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  #22  
Old December 13, 2004, 03:15 PM
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Ganesh
I agree with you about our lack of fielding improvement, to a certain degree. Our groundfielding has tremendously improved over a last few years, not counting the recent test match, where we were pretty shoddy. Catching is another matter and we have been consistently dropping catches in every test macth. Though it was never as comical as the last test, we have been dropping catches regularly in every test matches. In West Indies we dropped many catches in the test matches. We have no decent slip catcher except hannan ( he is out of the squad ). Bashar is a lethargic fielder and a worse slip fielder. Then we put Rana in the slips, who was caught napping with his hands on his knees, when he let Ganguly off with a straight forward catch. Fielding in the slips is a state of mind matter. You have to be sharp, have good reflexes, have to understand the game and adjust your positioning depending on the batsman and the particular bowler. Coaching comes into play here. We often take the wrong angle or stay too close to each other. One example : tendulkar at one point, when he was on 159, tried to sweep rafique and manged a mini top edge which balloned in the air. Rana was the lone slip fielder. Since the ball balloned, it stayed in the air a while, but Rana was standing too far. Still, had he jumped forward, instead of sideways, he may have caught that ball.

We must nurture and groom one or two players, who are automatic in the squad, as specialist slip fielders. If we ignore this aspect of the game, people like Mashrafee and his efforts will go unrewarded. They are a fast bowlers best friend. Ask McGrath, Ambrose etc..and see how many times they were helped by Mark waugh, Mark Taylor, Viv Richards and Richie Richardson. I always felt for Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis in this regard. Combined they could have 100 hundred more wkts in test matches if not for their sub-par slip fielders..
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  #23  
Old December 13, 2004, 03:35 PM
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who are are best fielders? alok kapali (currently not on team) does pretty well at point. I don't know of any specialists slip fielders. Bashar hangs out at 1st slip because he is captain, I was happy to see him move himself to mid on later in the game. rajin saleh is a good ground fielder as well - not sure how good his reflexes would be if he were in the slips. what about some of the younger guys - maybe they can bring in trevor chappell to work with them?

About the whining and crying. Don't confuse the inability to learn from mistakes with unfair criticism of Bangladeshi cricket. These players are not being inspired by Bashar and Whatmore constantly making excuses. When a team cannot learn from mistakes you begin to wonder if the coaches are doing their job. Hate to make that implication. Some of these mistakes the team is making are learning curve mistakes and it's OK - time will solve them. But then there are too many that are stupid and should be fixable - its those ones that infuriate.

And finally the team is down on morale and that affects their game all the time. Whatmore and the thinktank need to figure out ways to relieve some pressure, and some of these players will return to their natural game and abilities.
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  #24  
Old December 13, 2004, 07:04 PM
Ganesh Ganesh is offline
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First slip is a specialist position. Dravid used to be a good shortleg fielder when he came in. He struggled initially when he moved to slips. But, over they years he has become outstanding there. If you don't know how to watch the ball or when to get up at that spot, you will struggle at slips. May be it will be a good idea of Bangladeshi players get some tips from Dravid before India come back home. He is a player who is more likely to oblige.
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  #25  
Old December 13, 2004, 09:34 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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whatmore also knows that there's no hope with this team...he's saying all this just so that the players don't lose their confidence. this is good in a sense - he's just doing his job.
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