Where to now for Bangladesh?

[TimAus]

I've followed Bangladesh pretty closely for about 4 years now. As some of you may know I am an Aussie, but I also follow all international cricket throughout the world religiously (I even keep track of the movements in the World Cricket League Divisions). I have seen Bangladesh blood a ton of kids in this time, from Shakib, Tamim, Mush and Nasir to Suhrawadi Shuvo, Raquibal Hasan, Nazimuddin and Abul Hassan they've had successes and failures. But this emphasis on youth (they almost never have a player over 30, let alone 35) they have now got a pretty decent core of 23-27 year olds, with some younger guys still coming through. So with this mature, more or less match hardened group now together playing some competitive cricket I feel a new era is dawning for Bangladesh.

Statistically it's hard to see anything good about the Bangladesh Test results. Since the debut of their Captain Mushy in 2005 they have won 3, drawn 4 and lost 36. That's a win/loss ratio of 0.08 (In this time the next lowest apart from Zim was Windies with 0.36). However the silver lining is that 2 of those 7 non defeats were in the last 4 games. Are they getting better? Results would actually say yes.

So on to the post's topic, where to now for Bangladesh?

In the next 3 years Bangladesh play 18 tests. 4 are against Zimbabwe, the other 14 obviously top 8 sides. I think that Bangladesh need to be looking to win at least 4 of these games (and at least 2 of those against top 8s so if they double whitewash Zim they must win 6.) I'd also like to see them lose no more than 10 while no more than 2 of those be by an innings. This would at worst give them a tally of 4 wins, 4 draws and 10 losses and a win/loss ration of 0.4.

Personally I think this is both optimistic and conservative, such is Bangladesh cricket you can never know anything for sure. By the end of this period they'll still be a young side, but with Shakib 29, Mush 27, Nasir 24, Robiul 29, Tamim 27, Sohag 24 they'll have a heap of key players in or approaching their prime.

From that point on I guess it would be no excuses, move up the rankings or keep the minnow tag but 3 years is both a long time and a short time in cricket. We'll have to wait till then to re-evaluate.

What do you guys reckon, what would be a pass mark after 3 years and 18 tests for this side?

[Isnaad]

A very good post. And a timely thread as well. I think we really need to win at least 1 Test match against New Zealand later this year.

I, personally, will be very happy if we can pile on the draws for the time being and slowly, yet steadily, start showing signs of taking 20 wickets in a match. These are all little steps that will take our team forward.

Our batting has improved significantly and the short-term averages reflect upon that. Now, to nurture our bowling and equally importantly, fielding.

[Jadukor]

Immediate goal would be to draw tests against NZ and win the ODI series, reach the semi final of T-20 world cup in 2014 and reach the final of the next asia cup. Major goal would be to reach the semis of the 2015 ODI WC

[AsifTheManRahman]

The Asia Cup we should look to win, not just reach the finals. Semis of the T20 WC might be a long shot - we absolutely suck in that format. No hopes for the 2015 ODI WC though, as it's in Australia where even Kazakhstan might end up beating us by ten wickets.

Agree about the NZ series.

[Night_wolf]

we wont win test vs top 8 sides as we still dont have the quality to take 20 wickets

[firstlane]

Is your screen name Dashgar in CI?

[MHRAM]

Between June-September, we have no cricket at all. That means 5 months of no international cricket.

I think our cricket board needs to wake up and arrange a bilateral series by any means. If necessary, arrange a series with Afghanistan or Ireland. Ideally, I would love Bangladesh to play a series against Ireland and Scotland between june-august. It would be a good oppurtunity to test young players, and maybe rest mushfiq and nasir who havent missed a single series for a long time/

[KaaL-PurusH]

we can draw test matches more frequently if all our players realise the necessity of hard work. For example Robiul and brendan taylor. whatever they have achieved just because of their hard work and desire.

[Tiger444]

Great thread. The unfortunate part now is that we play our next Test match in 5 months. That's a very long time period and don't see us getting a Test tour in that time period. I heard that India might host us in August but that would be an ODI&T20I tour and as we know, it's India so we don't know if they'll keep their word in the end.

We have to take it a tour at a time. New Zealand is our next opponent and that's a very big and important tour. They're the #8 side in Tests. If we can't even notch up a win in our own conditions against them, I'd be really disappointed. If we want to show improvement, then we would need to win against them at least one. No excuses.

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by TimAus
I've followed Bangladesh pretty closely for about 4 years now. As some of you may know I am an Aussie, but I also follow all international cricket throughout the world religiously (I even keep track of the movements in the World Cricket League Divisions). I have seen Bangladesh blood a ton of kids in this time, from Shakib, Tamim, Mush and Nasir to Suhrawadi Shuvo, Raquibal Hasan, Nazimuddin and Abul Hassan they've had successes and failures. But this emphasis on youth (they almost never have a player over 30, let alone 35) they have now got a pretty decent core of 23-27 year olds, with some younger guys still coming through. So with this mature, more or less match hardened group now together playing some competitive cricket I feel a new era is dawning for Bangladesh.

Statistically it's hard to see anything good about the Bangladesh Test results. Since the debut of their Captain Mushy in 2005 they have won 3, drawn 4 and lost 36. That's a win/loss ratio of 0.08 (In this time the next lowest apart from Zim was Windies with 0.36). However the silver lining is that 2 of those 7 non defeats were in the last 4 games. Are they getting better? Results would actually say yes.

So on to the post's topic, where to now for Bangladesh?

In the next 3 years Bangladesh play 18 tests. 4 are against Zimbabwe, the other 14 obviously top 8 sides. I think that Bangladesh need to be looking to win at least 4 of these games (and at least 2 of those against top 8s so if they double whitewash Zim they must win 6.) I'd also like to see them lose no more than 10 while no more than 2 of those be by an innings. This would at worst give them a tally of 4 wins, 4 draws and 10 losses and a win/loss ration of 0.4.

Personally I think this is both optimistic and conservative, such is Bangladesh cricket you can never know anything for sure. By the end of this period they'll still be a young side, but with Shakib 29, Mush 27, Nasir 24, Robiul 29, Tamim 27, Sohag 24 they'll have a heap of key players in or approaching their prime.

From that point on I guess it would be no excuses, move up the rankings or keep the minnow tag but 3 years is both a long time and a short time in cricket. We'll have to wait till then to re-evaluate.

What do you guys reckon, what would be a pass mark after 3 years and 18 tests for this side?

Thanks for following Bangladesh cricket. For last 2/3 years we are playing good oneday cricket. We are playing good onedays cause is ,this format is natural to us and we have a long history of 50 over cricket. We are poor in Test. only cause is we are playing longer version cricket for only 13 years. Test and FC cricket culture has not developed much in our country. Just look at Tamim,Shakib and Nasir all of them are good ODI players but their test batting average are still below to their ability. Lot of time they bat in tests like ODI. Only cause is we are not used to with longer format. But things have started to change.
To me we were behind Zim in test cricket. But after drawing the test series at Zim in their backyard,I want to say we are slightly above Zim now. And we are improving.
Next 3 years is important for us as u said. We should win all tests against Zim. You are right we need to win atleast 6 tests to show our strength. For that coming NZ series is very vital for us. We have to win atleast 1 test against them.

[MHRAM]

The reason for our failure in test cricket is simple- Lack of FC cricket.

But Lack of first class cricket is not the only factor. Bangladesh have not grasped their chances well enough when they should have. I can give countless examples of matches Bangladesh "should" have won but they failed to. The first test between BD and WI last year is a classic example. We were left to score 250 runs on a flat pitch even though on the 5th day, with a longer batting lineup than usual and we ended up falling short by plenty of runs.

"Cometh the hour, cometh the man" Our players need to understand the importance of giving extra effort in the field when the times come. However, our past is dark and there has been hardly anything specks of light. Our problem is obsession with mediocrity. The way we look back at Ashraful after every other series goes to shows the worrying state of our cricket. No way does a player averaging 22.5 deserve to have 60 Test caps and 150+ ODI games. I am not putting the blame on Ash, I am just putting the blame on BD cricket as a whole. Another point, why someone like Ayub who performed brilliantly in National Cricket league for some time, was overlooked for the sake of Shahriar Nafees and Jahurul?

Obsession with mediocrity? Let me use this forum as an example. I have been following Banglacricket for some time and I have noticed that many of you still want to persist with jahurul. Even in the other thread about ODI XI, many included jahurul. Someone like jahurul who fails matches after matches to score a 50+ innings is by every means a mediocre player. Even despite this many of us still want to persist with him. Players are like their fans.

[AsifTheManRahman]

Rewarding mediocrity has been one of the perennial problems of Bangladesh cricket lately. You don't really have to go any further than looking at what our pace bowlers have done recently, aka zilch and how they have been persisted with regardless. We've heard there are no replacements, yet the moment we have a bunch of injuries, we discover a work horse and another guy who bowls ls&ls that guys like Abul couldn't bowl in 50 years. Why did our selectors keep picking Abul/Rajib when Robiul had reportedly been toiling away in the academy for over a year? That our selectors don't watch players and spend most of their time ordering and eating KFC in air-conditioned rooms is getting clearer by the day. The truth is as naked as it ever could be.

Our selectors and management had the same excuse when they kept playing the same non-batsmen in the top/middle orders, yet look at how much better their replacements are faring.

We'll have to play better opposition a few more times to be able to make a call about our fast bowling situation, i.e. if we think we can work with the Robi/Sajid/Zia trio plus Nazmul or if we have to look elsewhere/hire a bowling coach. For now, though, things are looking like they *might* just work out (knock on wood). Our spinners are always decent and Saqlain is working with them. The next most crucial thing, then, is our top order. Jahirul and SN have overstayed their welcome and need to be sent into hibernation for a while. Mominul seems to have a bright future. Anamul has quite some ways to go, but he's still new. Tamim needs to lose some weight and stop smoking. I think the top order is the area that we should focus on as a first priority at this moment. Once that's taken care of, I think we'll start to push for the #8/#7 positions in the ranking more aggressively.

[Zeeshan]

lol you guys surely cant be serious writing dissertations on these quacks delivery of teh game... sigh...

oh wait i do taht to ...

[Zeeshan]

aar isnaad ei "timely thread" cliche kothata na bolle hoy na? jeez

[Ajfar]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
we wont win test vs top 8 sides as we still dont have the quality to take 20 wickets

May be not against SA, Aus or India, but I think NZ batsman will struggle against Shakib and Gazi, and if our fast bowlers can provide some decent support than we should be able to pick up 20 wickets. NZ batsman's are well known for struggling in subcontinent pitch, last time we played test against them in BD, vettori stole a test win from us. And that team wasn't even that good. Comparing to the test team we fielded back than, this team is much more balanced. Personally I will be happy with a drawn test series, but I think we should go into the series with the intention of winning at least 1 of the test match.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
No hopes for the 2015 ODI WC though, as it's in Australia where even Kazakhstan might end up beating us by ten wickets.

If we start planning now we can build a strong team for that competition. I think most of the others teams will be weakened by a large number of players retiring by then. Mahela, Sanga, Hussey, Kallis, Sehwag etc etc will all be gone while our team will remain intact and gain even more experience. We have several months where we don't have any cricket scheduled right now. These vacant periods is when we can do something to prepare our players for bouncy tracks.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by Ajfar
May be not against SA, Aus or India, but I think NZ batsman will struggle against Shakib and Gazi, and if our fast bowlers can provide some decent support than we should be able to pick up 20 wickets. NZ batsman's are well known for struggling in subcontinent pitch, last time we played test against them in BD, vettori stole a test win from us. And that team wasn't even that good. Comparing to the test team we fielded back than, this team is much more balanced. Personally I will be happy with a drawn test series, but I think we should go into the series with the intention of winning at least 1 of the test match.

agree with you, NZ will struggle vs gazi and shakib but i still think we cant take 20 NZ wickets, we will take 10 of the 1st innings easily but we will struggle to take the next 10 as fitness is a big issue.

one batsman is bound to stand us as vittory stood up for nz, ponting for Aus and Inzi for pak, and with mushy's one dimensional and defensive captaincy it'll be hard to get him out. even in zim test we saw that as tailor in the 1st test and masakadza in the 2nd test, and when one batsman stands out even if others fail to score runs the tail will give him support, their tail isn't like ours(zim and Ban) which will throw its wickets away

just my 2 cents

[al-Sagar]

First of all not sure about away tests but at home we should make a FORT.

probably with our spinners we can take 20 wickets at home. and if not at least we should bat long and make a draw.

i see no excuses at home tests where we should not at least draw a game by batting long and giving opponents no time to force a win.

well the second important thing is, if u cant take wickets, try to just dry up runs. make sure you are bowling a consistent line and length an no freebies. so opponents have to work hard for runs.

we have to understand what our strengths are and what our weaknesses are. and then we have realize what is the best strategy and tactics that brings the best out of us.

we now have a 5 month break. all the cricketers should go back to nets and work like robiul did. fine tune everybodies skill and specially mentality. thats very important.

i expect us not to lose a TEST against NZ.

[ahnaf]

^ work hard? Shobai ei 5 month e biriyani niye busy thakbe..

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[Isnaad]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
aar isnaad ei "timely thread" cliche kothata na bolle hoy na? jeez

Apni o 'timely' thread khulen, amio 'timely' shei thread er churanto proshongsha nahoy korbo.
Iye maane, apni to abar 'Sheet kaal' e khulen Tormuj er thread ar 'Grishhmo kaal' e khulen pithar thread.

[TimAus]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
agree with you, NZ will struggle vs gazi and shakib but i still think we cant take 20 NZ wickets, we will take 10 of the 1st innings easily but we will struggle to take the next 10 as fitness is a big issue.

one batsman is bound to stand us as vittory stood up for nz, ponting for Aus and Inzi for pak, and with mushy's one dimensional and defensive captaincy it'll be hard to get him out. even in zim test we saw that as tailor in the 1st test and masakadza in the 2nd test, and when one batsman stands out even if others fail to score runs the tail will give him support, their tail isn't like ours(zim and Ban) which will throw its wickets away

just my 2 cents

In test cricket good players will stand up. There are no easy rides, but that goes both ways. Just like Taylor and Masakadza stood up against you guys, Mush, Shak, Nasir, Robiul and Sohag stood up for you guys. As the team grows they will learn to break the big partnerships and stop the collapses. The fact is Bangladesh have been playing with a team of children so bad patches were inevitable. Now that those kids have become men the results are going to improve steadily and I think rapidly.

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
we wont win test vs top 8 sides as we still dont have the quality to take 20 wickets

Fatalistic thinking, if you can take 1 wicket you can take 20. Where to now? We go back to being the worst team in test cricket. That may be your opinion on what will happen but surely it is not a pass mark. What do Bangladesh need to do to consider the next 3 years a success?

Originally Posted by firstlane
Is your screen name Dashgar in CI?

yes it is

[Tigers_eye]

It is not your fault. it is the timing.

Had you followed us 14 years instead of 4 you would become a redhat (IanW). Just as a baby learn from turning, crawling, walking, jogging, running, and sprinting Bangladesh are doing the same. We are at a jogging stage. Allow me to explain.

When we got test status (batting alone) we had players averaged teens. Yes, teens with inning defeats. Then a new generation came who started to average 20s. Then Habibul Bashar started performing and was the first to average 30. Our First Iconic player. Note here he became the standard where as your standard is measured as 99.97 avg.

While Ricky, Clark are best of the best, when they came along there were Border, Taylor, Waugh brothers and so many to absorb the pressure. Those new comers or the previous generation always had someone to lean on when difficult times came. They would learn from those who already knew how to create a partnership or how to bowl in tandem or how influence an umpire. Whereas, we had no one, only learning through defeats. It only took Shakib, Tamim to believe that we could compete with others.

The domestic circuit from Eng and Aus (any big 8) creates players who are already seasoned and tested. Ours? they start learning the game after coming to the national team from the INTL coaches.

Back to what I was going to say. So the teens were replaced by the twenties. As time passed we started to have better players who now averages 30s. That is why the turnover was so much. We have a 40 as well now (Nasir). In near future soon we would have 50 ave players and then you would start seeing more results coming in our favor. Jog along with us. When we start running there wouldn't be any stopping.

I so wish this new Aussie team would visit us and play test now. Definitely we would not let history slip away this time.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
we wont win test vs top 8 sides as we still dont have the quality to take 20 wickets

I disagree so much you can't even believe. Mashrafe takes that catch and we start a new chapter. Let them come now and visit us.

[BengaliPagol]

Good test teams are centred around good pace bowlers. Traditionally pacers are the ones that are meant to take the bulk of the 20 wickets in a test match. Spinners come on to build the pressure left by the pacers. Until we get this balance right in terms of our bowling then i think that's when we will become a decent test team.

For Bangladesh spinners are the strike bowlers who are looking to take wickets and pacers are the ones to gamble with...

Think about it this way. Australia's pacers (i.e. Starc, Siddle, Pattinson, Hilfenhaus etc.) are bowling to create havoc for the batsmen. When Nathan Lyon comes onto bowl all he has to do is build pressure for the batsmen. He can draw the batsmen to playing a rash stroke because the batsmen are desperate to score off a 'spinner' rather then a pacer. Nathan Lyon imo is blessed to have that kind of bowling attack in his team as his job is made 500000x more easier.

If Lyon played for Bangladesh i reckon he would struggle big time.

What i conclude with is that until we get at least one bowler in the caliber of Dale Steyn will will always fail to consistently take 20 wickets.

[simon]

hehe, nice family plan my dear TimAus , anyway the next target is to win ateast one Test vs NZ .