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  #1  
Old February 9, 2005, 12:25 AM
alias alias is offline
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Default Islamic Fundamentalism in Bangldesh - your opinion

what is your opinion about the extent of Islamic Fundamentalism in Bangladesh. Do you think it is a real problem? or is it a problem invented by the media? curious to know what you think.
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  #2  
Old February 9, 2005, 01:16 AM
Pundit Pundit is offline
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Why are you so curious to know ? Are you somehow going to solve the problem if most people say it is so ? If it isn't, will it make you sleep better at night ?

If you live in BD you should know the answer by now, is it not so ?

If you live elsewhere, what good will it serve knowing the answer (see first paragraph) ?

Food for thought ?
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  #3  
Old February 9, 2005, 07:02 AM
sraabon sraabon is offline
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Why are you so curious to know why he wants to know? Will it make you sleep better at night ?

What good will it serve knowing the answer (see first paragraph) ?

Food for thought ?

Eke shoja banglai bole "terami"

If you want to know what lies beneath. Prothom Alo did an interesting investigation in August about what happens in Quami madrassahs in CHT. The series started on Aug 14th and ended Aug 18th, 2004. Go to their website's archieve and read about it. You will be chilled to your bones!

Also have you heard of our good old friend Bangla bhai? Just type in Bangla bhai in google and do some work. To answer your question in yes/no.

Based on all of these evidence, I think militant islam exist in Bangladesh but I don't know how big they are. It may already be too late to stop them.
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  #4  
Old February 9, 2005, 08:19 AM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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Well said, Sraabon. A typical Bengali attitude of prying into stuffs other than coming up with some substantial thoughts.

Anyway, here are the links of Prothom Alo you have mentioned above:

>>1
>>2
>>3
>>4
>>5
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  #5  
Old February 9, 2005, 12:51 PM
cisco-guy cisco-guy is offline
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Things r looking bad for BD.

"Before dawn one morning this past November in Bagmara, a village in northwestern Bangladesh, six puffy-eyed men gathered beneath a cracked-mud stairwell to describe a man they consider their leader, a former schoolteacher called Bangla Bhai. The quiet was broken now and then by donkey carts clattering past, as village women, seated on the backs of the carts, were taken to the market. The women wore makeshift burkas — black, white, canary yellow — and kept their heads down, and this, the men explained, was Bangla Bhai’s doing.

Last spring, Bangla Bhai, whose followers probably number around 10,000, decided to try an Islamist revolution in several provinces of Bangladesh that border on India. His name means “Bangladeshi brother.” (At one point he said his real name was Azizur Rahman and more recently claimed it was Siddiqul Islam.) He has said that he acquired this nom de guerre while waging jihad in Afghanistan and that he was now going to bring about the Talibanization of his part of Bangladesh. Men were to grow beards, women to wear burkas. This was all rather new to the area, which was religiously diverse. But Jagrata Muslim Janata Bangladesh, as Bangla Bhai’s group is called (the name means Awakened Muslim Masses of Bangladesh), was determined and violent and seemed to have enough lightly armed adherents to make its rule stick...."


Read the NY Times article "The Next Islamist Revolution?"

http://www.thepersecution.org/world/...nyt050123.html
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  #6  
Old February 9, 2005, 06:18 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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yeah we have discussed this one in several threads over time...

I guess Islamic fundamentalism could be fine if everyone wanted it. But the reality is most people don't, they are happy with the type of Islam they are practising currently. Over the last decade, I have heard many otherwise well meaning people denounce any such phenomenon in Bangladesh with passion. Post 9/11, it is geopolitical suicide to admit you have this issue. Plus people who have been looking the other way are now busy covering their tracks - soon they will reinvent themselves so they can say "I told you so". You should do a little experiment and track what different people say over time - especially those who are a tad insecure about themselves to begin with!

Here is Hassan Ferdous on "image" as publised in Prothom Alo:

Bangladesher image shomossha: choti proshno o uttor


for other articles:

Hassan Ferdous articles
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  #7  
Old February 9, 2005, 06:56 PM
Pundit Pundit is offline
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Quote:
A typical Bengali attitude of prying into stuffs other than coming up with some substantial thoughts.
What good is "substantial thoughts" yours or mine if it is biased to the bone ?
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  #8  
Old February 9, 2005, 10:17 PM
fab fab is offline
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We're all inherently biased one way or another. If we weren't then there would hardly be any reason for debate, different political parties, democracy.. you name it!

Edited on, February 10, 2005, 3:17 AM GMT, by fab.
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  #9  
Old February 9, 2005, 11:48 PM
Mridul Mridul is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by alias
what is your opinion about the extent of Islamic Fundamentalism in Bangladesh. Do you think it is a real problem? or is it a problem invented by the media? curious to know what you think.
can you plz define what does actually Islmaic Fundamentalism mean?

Edited on, February 10, 2005, 4:52 AM GMT, by Mridul.
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  #10  
Old February 11, 2005, 04:41 AM
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tiger_man tiger_man is offline
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can you plz define what does actually Islmaic Fundamentalism mean?

Edited on, February 10, 2005, 4:52 AM GMT, by Mridul. [/quote]

like you i dont appreciate the usage of the term "fundamentalist" when refering to the jamat party...i know its common but its insulting

extremist is a better word....btw, i know these guys are trying to enforce the islamic values in the society but sometimes they push the line and start to loose people's respect
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  #11  
Old February 11, 2005, 05:09 AM
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tiger_man tiger_man is offline
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mridul bhai,
did you get your signature from the laweekly website?? i read the whole article and it was really facinating how a person who converted half way through his life, few blocks away from the WTC ruins, was more devoted than most of the mainstream muslim...

i know some converts my self and most of them did it just to get married....but this Charles Vincent guy is a pure legend...

shows that whoever allah guides no one can missguide him....
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  #12  
Old February 11, 2005, 05:57 AM
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Hasib Hasib is offline
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these "Islamic" Fundamentalists or terrorists arnt even muslims... u have to act like one to be one. and forcing ppl to do something is...unislamic
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  #13  
Old February 11, 2005, 10:04 AM
cisco-guy cisco-guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mridul
Quote:
Originally posted by alias
what is your opinion about the extent of Islamic Fundamentalism in Bangladesh. Do you think it is a real problem? or is it a problem invented by the media? curious to know what you think.
can you plz define what does actually Islmaic Fundamentalism mean?

Edited on, February 10, 2005, 4:52 AM GMT, by Mridul.
One good example of "Islamic Fundamentalism" is MURDERING Ahmadias for believing in their own faith.

http://www.thepersecution.org/photo/shaheed/index.html
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  #14  
Old February 15, 2005, 11:08 PM
Mridul Mridul is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiger_man
can you plz define what does actually Islmaic Fundamentalism mean?

Edited on, February 10, 2005, 4:52 AM GMT, by Mridul.
like you i dont appreciate the usage of the term "fundamentalist" when refering to the jamat party...i know its common but its insulting

extremist is a better word....btw, i know these guys are trying to enforce the islamic values in the society but sometimes they push the line and start to loose people's respect [/quote]


its true...i dont appreciate the word "fundamentalis"....but what is ur definition of "extrimist"?......these ppl are doin all unislamic things.....there are not being acting as true Muslim......they may be called Muslim...but there work are not Islamic
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  #15  
Old February 15, 2005, 11:18 PM
Mridul Mridul is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiger_man
mridul bhai,
did you get your signature from the laweekly website?? i read the whole article and it was really facinating how a person who converted half way through his life, few blocks away from the WTC ruins, was more devoted than most of the mainstream muslim...

i know some converts my self and most of them did it just to get married....but this Charles Vincent guy is a pure legend...

shows that whoever allah guides no one can missguide him....

yah...i have got that from that website....most of the converts are even more serious in following Islam than us......there level of Iman (faith) is so high that sometimes I cant hold my tears...when i hear/read there stories.....its simply amazing...May Allah guide us all
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  #16  
Old February 15, 2005, 11:19 PM
Mridul Mridul is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cisco-guy
Quote:
Originally posted by Mridul
Quote:
Originally posted by alias
what is your opinion about the extent of Islamic Fundamentalism in Bangladesh. Do you think it is a real problem? or is it a problem invented by the media? curious to know what you think.
can you plz define what does actually Islmaic Fundamentalism mean?

Edited on, February 10, 2005, 4:52 AM GMT, by Mridul.
One good example of "Islamic Fundamentalism" is MURDERING Ahmadias for believing in their own faith.

http://www.thepersecution.org/photo/shaheed/index.html

How is this Islamic?
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  #17  
Old February 15, 2005, 11:51 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Maybe you need to know what "fundamentalism" means first.
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  #18  
Old February 16, 2005, 12:58 AM
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tiger_man tiger_man is offline
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Edited on, February 16, 2005, 6:00 AM GMT, by tiger_man.
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  #19  
Old February 16, 2005, 12:59 AM
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tiger_man tiger_man is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnab
Maybe you need to know what "fundamentalism" means first.
the word means strict following of the fundamental doctrines of any religion or system of thought....

fundamental means original rule or principle

so is killing of ahmadiyyas an act of islamic fundamentalism??

the best way to describe those acts are extremism..not islamic fundamentalism

Edited on, February 16, 2005, 6:01 AM GMT, by tiger_man.
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  #20  
Old February 16, 2005, 01:01 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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tiger_man, mridul: my guess is you may support a more Islamic way of life in Bangladesh and the world at large. My question is who do you think is responsible for making this a reality - should individuals lead the way or should the government decide for us? If you think an Islamic-oriented government is what it will take, then who would you choose amongst the current political parties in Bangladesh - is the BNP Islamic enough or would you go a little bit more to the right to mainstream Islamic parties such as Jamaat or IOJ, etc. If it is the latter, do you think their track record of anti-Bangladeshi activities before, during and after 1971 have any bearing on their credibility to lead the country now? Taking that in a different direction, there are some Islamic groups who advocate violence to establish a more Islamic way of life - such as the Bangla Bhai type groups. Is that the way to go to get to the end goal of a more Islamic way of life? I guess my main question is do the means justify the ends? Despite being predominantly Muslim for a long time, our region now faces increased pressure to adopt a more "Islamic way of life", which typically is the interpretations on one particular school of thought within Islam. Do you think this "new" Islamic way of life and traditional Bengali culture are mutually exclusive and do we need to choose one or the other? Would welcome your thougthful opinions.

Edited on, February 16, 2005, 6:03 AM GMT, by rafiq.
Reason: typo
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  #21  
Old February 16, 2005, 01:18 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiger_man
Quote:
Originally posted by Arnab
Maybe you need to know what "fundamentalism" means first.
the word means strict following of the fundamental doctrines of any religion or system of thought....

fundamental means original rule or principle

so is killing of ahmadiyyas an act of islamic fundamentalism??

the best way to describe those acts are extremism..not islamic fundamentalism

Edited on, February 16, 2005, 6:01 AM GMT, by tiger_man.
Good point re: the difference between fundamentalism vs extremism. It is common to use them interchangeably, however, even though it may be misleading. You are implying that fundamentalists may not be extremists. Don't you then think that fundamentalists should take a tougher, more active stand to separate themselves from extremists? In a place like Iraq, you often see fundamentalist Islamic clerics who have great power and influence denounce extremist violence.

Compare that to Bangladesh. Who are the fundamentalist leaders there who have separated themselves from extremism? As an example of a cleric who is not a politician how about the Imam of the Baitul Mukarram mosque - hasn't he in fact incited more violence in the streets with some of his statements? Which fundamentalist leader has denounced the bombings of cinema halls, even though they would personally not go to the theatre themselves?
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  #22  
Old February 16, 2005, 01:28 AM
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tiger_man tiger_man is offline
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rafiq,
its not about BNP or Jamaat, both these people are nothing but power hungry fanatics.....but thats just my opinion

islamic way of life is more similar to the arab cultures than it is to our bengali culture....afterall lets face it, our ethnicity if bengali....but there are certain areas where our islamic and bengali culture clashes and thats where the problem lies....
now do we have to choose one or the other depends on how religious you are....for me personally, if there is circumstances where i have to chose between my traditional bengali culture and islamic culture, i will go for the second option, because end of the day the culture of hereafter is the culture of islam....

as for choosing between jamaat or BNP, i wouldnt choose either of them...to me both of them are nothing but hypocrites (group of people living during the time of Propher peace be upon Him, who took every opportunity to cause trouble in the newly formed islamic community) who are either 1. merely using islam to gain political influence over others or 2. really belives islam but their interpretation is harsh and not very consistent with hadith and koran....for example, they might take the punishment mentioned in sharia seriously but not take other factors into consideration like treating women with respect, advocating religious freedom etc....

we as muslims are going through very difficult times where its not only hard to observe religious obligation seriously but also avoid facing discrimination at every corner...whats the solution?? i dont know...but i wish i had one......

Edited on, February 16, 2005, 6:29 AM GMT, by tiger_man.
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  #23  
Old February 16, 2005, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafiq

Good point re: the difference between fundamentalism vs extremism. It is common to use them interchangeably, however, even though it may be misleading. You are implying that fundamentalists may not be extremists. Don't you then think that fundamentalists should take a tougher, more active stand to separate themselves from extremists? In a place like Iraq, you often see fundamentalist Islamic clerics who have great power and influence denounce extremist violence.

Compare that to Bangladesh. Who are the fundamentalist leaders there who have separated themselves from extremism? As an example of a cleric who is not a politician how about the Imam of the Baitul Mukarram mosque - hasn't he in fact incited more violence in the streets with some of his statements? Which fundamentalist leader has denounced the bombings of cinema halls, even though they would personally not go to the theatre themselves?
now that you know the difference between the two...you can work out who are fundamentalist and who are extremist...
there are surely people out there who follow the fundamentals of islam and at the same time denounces violence, killing of non-muslims...we dont get to know them because they dont show their face that very often in the public....and we only tend to hear about those who incite violence because its nice to capture them yellling violent slongans in the media and television.....
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  #24  
Old February 16, 2005, 01:47 AM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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And so if these peace loving fundamentalists exist, as I am sure they do, whose fault it is that we don't hear more from them - the media?

You should also consider that many people consider themselves practising fundamental aspects of Islam without sharing all the characteristics of what you would call an Islamic fundamentalist. And so there are many who are practising Muslims but have rejected this definition of fundamentalism, let alone extremism.

As for adopting Arabian culture over Bengali culture, perhaps I can borrow from the colorful language of a fellow BC member and suggest that those who desire the Arabian lifestyle are free to pack up their "kombols" and migrate to Arabia?

Perhaps Bengal should be left alone for Bangalis?

Edited on, February 16, 2005, 6:53 AM GMT, by rafiq.
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  #25  
Old February 16, 2005, 03:59 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
islamic way of life is more similar to the arab cultures than it is to our bengali culture....afterall lets face it, our ethnicity if bengali....but there are certain areas where our islamic and bengali culture clashes and thats where the problem lies....
Why it has to be more similar to the arab cultures than it is to our bengali culture?
What's wrong if people choose a islamic life similar to Bangali or Malayan or Turkey etc.?
Why it has to be an Arabic or Pakistani or Afghani or Irani and so?
Since when certain areas of Bangali culture and islamic way of life has started to clash as a problem?
I never heard any of those clashes caused bombing around or torturing and killing people taking in camp
( which is recognized by the people as mosque or madrassa ) just 10 years ago!!
How come it suddenly appears as a clash between Bangali culture and a islamic way of life?
Even if it does exist, which one should be blamed?
our Bangali culture or that islamic way of life or ourselves not being an arabian?
In my opinion I have no choice but to blame that islamic way of life in this case.
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