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  #1  
Old March 2, 2005, 11:14 AM
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Default Shabina wins Muslim gown case

This one is a headline news right now in UK.




A girl was unlawfully excluded from school for wearing a traditional Muslim gown, Appeal Court judges have ruled.





Shabina Begum wants to wear a full-length jilbab gown to school


Lord Justice Brooke said Denbigh High School in Luton, Beds, denied Shabina Begum, 16 - now at another school - the right to manifest her religion.

He called for more guidance for schools on complying with the Human Rights Act.

Miss Begum called the ruling a victory for Muslims who wanted to "preserve their identity and values". The school said it had lost on a technicality.

Miss Begum, whose parents are both dead, had worn a regulation shalwar kameez (trousers and tunic) until September 2002 when she informed the school authorities she intended to wear a full-length gown called a jilbab.
Speaking outside the Court of Appeal Miss Begum, who now attends a school where the jilbab is allowed, said Denbigh High School's action could not be viewed merely as a local decision taken in isolation.

"Rather it was a consequence of an atmosphere that has been created in Western societies post 9/11, an atmosphere in which Islam has been made a target for vilification in the name of the 'war on terror'," she said.

"It is amazing that in the so-called free world I have to fight to wear this attire."

Lawyers at the Children's Legal Centre which represented Miss Begum said the judgement was a "landmark victory" which could have wide-ranging consequences for the freedom to manifest religious beliefs and a "significant impact" on school dress codes.

'Onus on school'

In their ruling the Appeal Court judges said the school had a right to set a school uniform policy but nobody had considered Miss Begum had a right recognised by English law.

The onus lay on the school to justify any interference with that right, the judges ruled.
Lord Justice Brooke said: "Instead, it started from the premise that its uniform policy was there to be obeyed: if the claimant did not like it, she could go to a different school."

Although Miss Begum had won her case, she no longer sought an order from the court that the school took her back and no longer sought any damages, he added.

A spokesman for Denbigh High School, where 79% of pupils are Muslims, defended its uniform policy which he said took into account cultural and religious sensitivities.

"The policy was agreed by the governing body following wide consultation with the DFES, pupils, parents, schools and leading Muslim organisations."

'Common-sense approach'

The case had been lost due to a "small, technical breach" of the Human Rights Act, the spokesman added.

"The judges accepted that the school is entitled to have a uniform policy and could see nothing wrong with it," he said.
A spokesperson for Luton borough council said they would be developing guidance on school uniform and advising Luton schools' governing bodies to review their uniform policy to take account of religious and cultural needs.

The ruling, which has major implications for multi-faith schools across the country, has been welcomed by the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) as a "common-sense approach".

MCB Secretary-General Iqbal Sacranie said: "This is a very important ruling on the issue of personal freedoms. The British Muslim community is a diverse community in terms of the interpretation and understanding of their faith and its practice.

"Within this broad spectrum those that believe and choose to wear the jilbab and consider it to be part of their faith requirement for modest attire should be respected."

Shadow education secretary Tim Collins said it should be for "schools alone" to decide their dress code.

"This case yet again reflects the way in which the Human Rights Act is unduly restricting the freedom of head teachers to run their schools in their own way," he said.

"This ruling further strengthens the case for fundamental change or repeal."
-BBC

Watch Sabina's Reaction >>

Traditional dress ruling: Your reaction >>

Edited on, March 2, 2005, 5:17 PM GMT, by reverse_swing.
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  #2  
Old March 2, 2005, 11:41 AM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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Poor girl. At an age of 16 one could hardly make a choice about his/her dress code. Another victim of patriarchy.
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  #3  
Old March 2, 2005, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Navarene
Poor girl. At an age of 16 one could hardly make a choice about his/her dress code. Another victim of patriarchy.
[Mod: Deleted: Ad Hominem Comment, please refrain from personal attacks]

Edited on, March 2, 2005, 5:43 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.

Edited on, March 2, 2005, 8:33 PM GMT, by Zunaid.
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  #4  
Old March 2, 2005, 12:42 PM
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In western countries, forcing does not work. In U.K., it takes 1 phone call to social service saying "my parents are abusive" and the she will be on her way to Queens Palace.

Really, grow up. Women are not object of mens pleasure, nor they are ment for TV add nor they are ment for half naked adds on billboards nor they are made for your pleasure in pronographic movies.

Every one has the right to practice their beliefs in a free society. If she chose to practice the true Islamic ways, you should not have any problem and should not attempt to make it a force thing. There are Muslim women who love Islam truly and do things on their free will. Muslim women are truly free, not imprisoned by lusty ideology of western society where womens freedom is defined in being the object of mens pleasure.



Edited on, March 2, 2005, 5:50 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
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  #5  
Old March 2, 2005, 01:43 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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If Shabina was a true Muslim woman she would not have appeared on camera for those interviews. She should not have enticed men all around the world with her beautiful 16 year old face.

Check.
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  #6  
Old March 2, 2005, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafiq
If Shabina was a true Muslim woman she would not have appeared on camera for those interviews. She should not have enticed men all around the world with her beautiful 16 year old face.

Check.
Whatever her rank in the sight of Allah is only known to Allah. If she wants to practice that much Islam that she wants to have a "hijab", then she has the choice to do so.
Every bit counts. If some one prays 1 rakat of salat (Namaz!) in his/her entire life and did not pray their after, still his/her 1 rakat will count and will be saved.

Read Quran Surat 99. The Convulsion (Az-Zalzalah):


099.007 And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then,

099.008 And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then.


Every bit counts, good or bad. She has taken a stand on her right to practice the Islam that she can take. Her effort should be praised by any sane Muslims, not criticized or ridiculed.

You have taken the issue in a different direction, off topic, by avoiding the main point of my reply . According to ignorant flocks, women only wear hijab when they are forced. I refuted that claim. Don't forget, a practicing Muslim man is born from a practicing Muslim woman. Fathers hardly influences the Islam in a child, it’s the mothers who build the Islam in a child.

Edited on, March 2, 2005, 7:32 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
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  #7  
Old March 2, 2005, 02:37 PM
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Take a look at her powerfull comments on BBC. Do you guys only take pride when a woman is like Taslima Nasreen? I take pride in such a Bangladeshi Muslim woman who had the guts to stand out for what she believed. Oh! forgot to mention, her father and mother were long dead. I wonder who forced her to wear Hijab!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/4310545.stm

Quote:

"Rather it was a consequence of an atmosphere that has been created in Western societies post 9/11, an atmosphere in which Islam has been made a target for vilification in the name of the 'war on terror'," she said.

"It is amazing that in the so-called free world I have to fight to wear this attire."
Edited on, March 2, 2005, 8:18 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
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  #8  
Old March 2, 2005, 02:52 PM
DJ Sahastra DJ Sahastra is offline
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I beg to disagree with both her stand and her statement.

A school uniform, as i understand, is aimed at maintining a uniformity in the dress throughout the class. An attire is different from a uniform.

I doubt if the school uniform promoted any kind of indecency.

By taking the stand that she took, she may have become popular among Muslims, but she has indeed increased the level of skepticism for the Muslims. These are kind of cases where you win judgements but you lose hearts and supports. She would've created a sceptic among many a non-muslim supporters by her stance.

I won't be surprised if she was encouraged and advised by the local Islamic Council for the stand that she took.

What next? Are we looking at students going to school in skull-caps and/or carrying Koran/Bible/Geeta in their hands?
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  #9  
Old March 2, 2005, 02:59 PM
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You have like most non-Muslim mistaken Islam with a religion. Difference between Islam and other religion is that, Islam is a way of life, Muslims are to live in it. And religion is something you do when you have time, like on the weekends "Sunday" for Christians and "Saturday" for Jews.

So, a practicing Muslim, is a Muslim even at school, at work and where ever he is at a given time. All and every part of Islam and Islamic actions for a given scenario is available, unlike any other religion. That’s why Allah says, “Today I have completed your Deen.” Islam is complete, it includes dress code, for men and women (Yes Men also!)

Schools could well have long cloths for those Muslim women who wants to cover themselves better.

Edited on, March 2, 2005, 8:04 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
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  #10  
Old March 2, 2005, 03:17 PM
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At the age of 16, not many people stand up the way she did. Really, proud of her!
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  #11  
Old March 2, 2005, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dawah.tabligh
You have like most non-Muslim mistaken Islam with a religion. Difference between Islam and other religion is that, Islam is a way of life, Muslims are to live in it. And religion is something you do when you have time, like on the weekends "Sunday" for Christians and "Saturday" for Jews.


Edited on, March 2, 2005, 8:04 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
If Islam is a way of life set in 600 AD Arabia and is to be strictly followed today by literal interpretation of the Quran, what is Islam's stance on watching adha nengta hindu actresses on television? How about sharing pictures on cellphone? I mean cellphones or tv were not exactly the part and parcel of the "way of life" back in 600 AD.

Hell, there were no Arabs in England in 600 AD. Isn't that girl violating the European way of life by being born there and practicing the Islamic way of life in an European country?
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  #12  
Old March 2, 2005, 04:17 PM
cisco-guy cisco-guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dawah.tabligh
Difference between Islam and other religion is that, Islam is a way of life, Muslims are to live in it. And religion is something you do when you have time, like on the weekends "Sunday" for Christians and "Saturday" for Jews.
Edited on, March 2, 2005, 8:04 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
Both Hinduism and Buddhism are "a way of life".

I disagree that we need to become more occupied with rituals. The Industrial revolution missed the Islamic world since the acquisition of knowledge by Muslims in madrassas meant only the study of theology. The study of science and technology is discouraged. It is believed that the orthodox Islamists hold that their version of Islamic way of life is ordained by God and it will continue to remain so without any change until the end of time. Any deviation from the way of life will constitute a mortal sin, a sure entry to hell.
Islam is for all times. The moral and spiritual teachings of Islam have eternal value and validity. Islam is not wrong, but literal or orthodox interpretations are wrong.
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  #13  
Old March 2, 2005, 04:26 PM
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Spitfire_x86 Spitfire_x86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dawah.tabligh
You have like most non-Muslim mistaken Islam with a religion. Difference between Islam and other religion is that, Islam is a way of life, Muslims are to live in it. And religion is something you do when you have time, like on the weekends "Sunday" for Christians and "Saturday" for Jews.
What's so great about pretending that Islam is NOT a religion? When you face the question, "what's your religion"? Do you answer like "I don't beleive in religion, but I prefer to follow Islamic way of life" or simply say Islam?

And about that hijab thing: I have every reason to beleive that the girl's familiy (family means people she lived with, since her parents are dead) presuaded her to wear hijab since she grew little older. That's 99.9999.......% possibility.

School dress are just school dress.

Don't deny these plain truths.
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  #14  
Old March 2, 2005, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dawah.tabligh
You have like most non-Muslim mistaken Islam with a religion. Difference between Islam and other religion is that, Islam is a way of life, Muslims are to live in it. And religion is something you do when you have time, like on the weekends "Sunday" for Christians and "Saturday" for Jews.
Edited on, March 2, 2005, 8:04 PM GMT, by dawah.tabligh.
Before you go on, I'd suggest you come down from your moral high horse and qualify your statement.

What do you mean by insinuating that for Christians and Jews religion is a weekend affair?
How much do you know about the theology of either one of these Abrahamic religions? How bout their practitioners?

A lot of Muslims like myself do not subscribe to the 'my God is better than you God' type mindset.
Piety, morality is NOT exclusive to Islam or its followers (no matter how 'religious' they are).

Besides the Quran discusses explicitly in this very topic in (109:6) :
"Unto you, your moral law, and unto me, mine !"

Edited on, March 3, 2005, 6:21 AM GMT, by BushidoTiger.
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  #15  
Old March 2, 2005, 08:26 PM
fab fab is offline
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Well well well, guess who her lawyer was? None other than Ms Cherie Booth (Tony Blair's wife).. interesting.

While her courage is admirable, it is somewhat misguided. Schools have regulations on uniforms, and what can and cannot be worn is usually outlined clearly. If you're not allowed to wear certain things, then go to another school. I think the British are going about multiculturalism the wrong way. Uber-PCism causes negativity and resentment (as pointed out by the DJ).

btw, my school didn't allow us to wear nailpolish, jewellery or pink socks. Was that an infringement of my human rights?
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  #16  
Old March 2, 2005, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fab
btw, my school didn't allow us to wear nailpolish, jewellery or pink socks. Was that an infringement of my human rights?
I would not really think that your nailpolish, jewellery or pink socks has the same importance as a hijab.

If you are not with her or you do not think the same way then you don't really have to discourage or diss (yes, I had to use that word since you literally compared your nailpolish, jewellery or even a pink socks with a hijab). I would request you to show some respect, this message is not just to you but to everyone else who has a different view to it.

Edited on, March 3, 2005, 1:57 AM GMT, by ehsan.
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  #17  
Old March 2, 2005, 09:31 PM
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this is sooo funny...

some ppl who say they feel that women shudnt be forced to wear hijab (and they shudn't be forced) also r saying they shud be forced into not wearing it. When they say they shudnt be forced they point to human rights... (and there is no problem with that) ...so what happened to human rights when they said they shud be forced not to wear it?
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  #18  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:03 PM
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Don't know about Judaism, and while theologically Christianity isn't a weekend affair, that's how it is practiced now. Christianity has been diluted to accommodate material needs of humans.

Appearantly also, some people here it seems have taken a special liking for 16 year teenagers in hijab.

Someone who can stand upto a school board is forced upon to wear a hijab ? Funny. Though I know its not worthy of pointing this out to our resident commies, 13 year olders african american students forced their way into all white Arkansas schools more than 40 years back amidst physical intimidations.

I know, I know, their parents were certified NAACP big-wigs, some here will lead us to believe.

Actually, the real conservatives are the tunnel-visioned, material grabbing neo "seculars" of this world. As soon as America takes care of the terrorists, they are coming after you just as they had done for most of the 20th century. Might I suggest you all buy land in Siberia while you still can.

Ciao.



Edited on, March 3, 2005, 3:07 AM GMT, by Pundit.
Reason: Typo
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  #19  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:20 PM
fab fab is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ehsan
I would not really think that your nailpolish, jewellery or pink socks has the same importance as a hijab.
It seems that some one didn't read the article properly The school allows them to wear salwar kameez and hijab. It's the 'jiljab' that wasn't allowed. The school consulted with muslim leaders and clerics when devising the uniform policy (hence the provision of the hijab). So how is this school bigotted and prejudiced when it already caters for the Islamic code? *sigh*
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  #20  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:29 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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I don't even know what a jiljab is. Gotta look it up.
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  #21  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dawah.tabligh
Oh! forgot to mention, her father and mother were long dead. I wonder who forced her to wear Hijab!
Have to feel sad for her coz she doesn't have any parents. I think the brother brainwashed her..

"Miss Begum, whose father and mother are both dead, had worn the regulation shalwar kameez (trousers and tunic) from when she joined the school at the age of 12 until September 2002.

At that time she and her brother, Shuweb Rahman, informed assistant headteacher Stuart Moore she would be wearing a full length gown-type garment called a jilbab. "
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  #22  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnab
I don't even know what a jiljab is. Gotta look it up.
me too. The following one I got from BBC. Is it Jiljab?

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  #23  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:44 PM
fab fab is offline
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Did a search on it on google:

Results 1 - 8 of about 22 for Jiljab.

Holy smoke... real mainstream attire that.
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  #24  
Old March 2, 2005, 10:46 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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Oh lighten up people! Let her wear it if she wants. I think this Jiljab thing is pretty stylish, actually. If I was a jiljab marketer, I would want Ms. Begum as the face on my jiljabs. Yeah, so?

Edited on, March 3, 2005, 3:47 AM GMT, by rafiq.
Reason: bolbo na
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  #25  
Old March 2, 2005, 11:03 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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So it's a borkha?
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