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  #1  
Old March 28, 2005, 02:28 AM
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Default The last batting spot for Eng Tour

Six batsmen appear to be set for the tour to England this May, barring injuries. JO has been discussed to death but at present, there are no experienced alternative openers for what is likely to be critical tour in terms of BD's perception in the Test arena. Besides the chief selector has already provided the media a hint with reference to "not changing a winning team". Hence, on a touring squad that should have 7 batsmen, the gimmes are[list=1]
JO Belim
Nafis Ahmed
Habibul Bashar
Md. Ashraful
Rajin Saleh
Aftab Ahmed[/list=1]
There remains, thus the 7th spot. The debate seems to be between Tushar Imran & Manjurul Rana, with Shahriar Nafees mentioned by a few. What do the numbers tell though? The following chart includes Top 10 averages of those who have played at least three and then at least two NCL rounds. Then the averages from the Duleep & Zim A tours are provided.

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[/align]
If one merely uses foreign tours performance as a factor, then Tushar appears to move ahead with his tour leading average of 39.17 in Zimbabwe's seamer friendly conditions (Musfique's average is aided by an outlier - his 111*). Tushar after all is a bona-fide batsmen. In addition his occasional off-breaks provide much needed variety to the side's spin attack. The argument against Tushar has been his tendency to play one shot too many, an affliction, many other Bangladeshi batsmen suffer from. Perhaps as result of this, Tushar lacks any recent centuries in 1st class cricket.

His competitor, Rana also did fairly well against seamer dominated attacks in India. As usual, his performance was often in rear-guard situations, but an average of 30 when the nearest speciallist batsmen are averaging 23 & 22, allows him to put his hand up to be included. However he is not a speciallist batsmen, and his technique, especially against faster bowlers invites questions.

Once, however NCL performance is factored in, Rana stands out. Tushrar played one match and scored 0 & 68 respectively. Rana on the other hand has a big hundred, a few decent innings under pressure, and quite a healthy average. He is yet another SLA but his fastish darts with canny variations of pace may prove to be useful in early English summer conditions.

Obviously, a consideration in the use of averages is the Not Out factor. In the past, Rana, through sheer determination has often managed to outlast the tail while scoring few runs and drawing a rash of oohs and aahs from errant edges and near misses. However, in the matches considered here, Rana had 0 NOs out of 4 innings in the Duleep tour, and 2 NOs out of 6 innings in NCL. The averages in this situation seem indicative enough.

The numbers must now be put in context of the tour itself. The England tour will expose BD batsmen to one of their many nemesis': the swinging/seaming ball. Recent peformances notwithstanding, it is highly likely that Bangladesh will suffer top order collapses during the Test matches. On such situations, a grafter such as Rana might be preferable to a gifted strokeplayer such as Tushar. Also, Rana's presence would add a much needed southpaw to the batting line up - something which could act to disrupt the bowling rhythm of the English bowlers (when the ball is bending round the corners, control is actually quite difficult).

At this point Shahriar Nafis must be discounted. While his peformance in Zim was satisfactory, he is currently taking an extended break due to academic pursuits, and as such likely to lack match fitness. More important, the coming English tour is not the best of tours to blood rank rookies.

It thus appears that the 7th batting spot of the tour should go to Manzurul Rana. Until a few more of the talented under 19 batters graduate to the senior team (Mushfique, Shahriar could soon follow Nafis & Aftab), Rana - faulty but effective style and all, looks likely to force his way into the side.

Edited on, March 28, 2005, 7:31 AM GMT, by razabq.

Edited on, March 29, 2005, 12:55 AM GMT, by razabq.
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  #2  
Old March 28, 2005, 05:22 AM
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Excellent piece. I hadn't realized but a player who we haven't discussed at all this season, Moniruzzaman, has really crept up on us. He is the only player to score 500 runs so far, and that too, in just 8 innings.

Anyway, getting back on point, just one or two points about the analysis on the batsmen. To me, the biggest argument in favour of Rana is his performance to date in Test matches and other tours such as the BCB XI tour to Duleep. Although his NCL performance this year has been very good, atleast with the bat, as Tehsin bhai pointed out, in a season when every Tom, Dick and Harry seems to be scoring centuries, we should be guarded about how much value we add to batting performance in this year's NCL. So, although a useful guide, I wouldn't use the NCL as a tie-breaker between Tushar, who has only played one game and Rana.

Going back to your subjective analysis:

"The numbers must now be put in context of the tour itself. The England tour will expose BD batsmen to one of their many nemesis': the swinging/seaming ball. Recent peformances notwithstanding, it is highly likely that Bangladesh will suffer top order collapses during the Test matches. On such situations, a grafter such as Rana might be preferable to a gifted strokeplayer such as Tushar. Also, Rana's presence would add a much needed southpaw to the batting line up - something which could act to disrupt the bowling rhythm of the English bowlers (when the ball is bending round the corners, control is actually quite difficult)."

This makes sense to me. Particularly the fact that Rana is a lefty and this works in his favour. Also, I agree that Rana is a grafter, a gritty and determined player who puts a price on his wicket while as you rightly say, Tushar has a tendency to give his wicket away, especially when he is well set and looking good. However, will Rana's ability last out in England? Here the only thing we can go by is his Duleep performance, where the highest average is that of Razzak's, so God knows what we should make of that tour. Personally, I think he will as usual try his best to shut out the bowlers, but I wonder how long he will be able to hold on with his limited ability with the bat. The ooohs and aahs that you mentioned everytime he bats and looks just about to lose his wicket are on BD pitches don't forget, so we might be having a few heart attacks at the stands if we have to watch Rana bat in the test matches in England.

Anyway, I can go on discounting Rana for another few thousand words, but the lack of other options make it all futile. Rana to me is still a gritty tail-ender (see poll thread on Rana). Its just frustrating that we seem to have such a lot talented yet utterly unreliable batsmen in BD that we are left with no choice but to take Rana as a specialist batsman on a tour of England!
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  #3  
Old March 28, 2005, 05:29 AM
Zephaniah Zephaniah is offline
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Good read. D'accord!
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  #4  
Old March 28, 2005, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sham
Excellent piece. I hadn't realized but a player who we haven't discussed at all this season, Moniruzzaman, has really crept up on us. He is the only player to score 500 runs so far, and that too, in just 8 innings.
Sham, a number of players have scored over 500 - Golam Rahman, Shanin Hossain. And Hasannuzzaman has 499.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sham
Going back to your subjective analysis:
... This makes sense to me. Particularly the fact that Rana is a lefty and this works in his favour. Also, I agree that Rana is a grafter, a gritty and determined player who puts a price on his wicket while as you rightly say, Tushar has a tendency to give his wicket away, especially when he is well set and looking good. However, will Rana's ability last out in England? Here the only thing we can go by is his Duleep performance, where the highest average is that of Razzak's, so God knows what we should make of that tour. Personally, I think he will as usual try his best to shut out the bowlers, but I wonder how long he will be able to hold on with his limited ability with the bat. The ooohs and aahs that you mentioned everytime he bats and looks just about to lose his wicket are on BD pitches don't forget, so we might be having a few heart attacks at the stands if we have to watch Rana bat in the test matches in England.
Well I saw this guy bat against a rampant Pedro Collins (moving the ball both ways, had a 7fer i think), a charged up Tino Best, and co. and hold up pretty well. I believe his 120 run parnership with Bashar is one of our better ones. That innings more than anything convinced me that 'tis far better to be gritty & lucky then to be good, and made me consider him as our Hussain I know I was critical of him at the time but after taking time to chew on it, I can't help but marvel that he kept em all out for the longest time

BTW Check your U2U.
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  #5  
Old March 28, 2005, 05:45 AM
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Sorry, I meant to write that Moniruzzaman is the only player to have scored 500 runs in just 5 matches. Both Shaheen and Rahman have played in all 6 matches so far I believe!
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  #6  
Old March 28, 2005, 07:14 AM
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Why should we consider Rana as a batsman? Mashrafee's NCL batting stats are almost as good as Rana's, but we're not considering him as a batsman.

Rana is neither a specialist batsman, nor a specialist bowler, He can be called an allrounder because he can't do anything properly.

IMO, Tushar deserves a chance after having a good tour in Zimbabwe.
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  #7  
Old March 28, 2005, 07:38 AM
Tyrant Tyrant is offline
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any one but hannan sarkar
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  #8  
Old March 28, 2005, 09:17 AM
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I am not a Rana fan but he is more likely to be considered than Tushar. A tough call but one which the selectors will accomplish without any surprises.

Anyway, i think we should post this article on the front page.

Edited on, March 28, 2005, 2:17 PM GMT, by oracle.
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  #9  
Old March 28, 2005, 09:25 AM
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Question again: ODI team or Tests??

For Tests... Enamul is almost surely to be there. So are we gonna play 3 SLA's at a time? This is why Tushar Imran may get a chance.

And for ODI's Rana may replace Enamul.
In that case 7th will be Tushar or Sujon?
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  #10  
Old March 28, 2005, 10:16 AM
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I don't think we'll play both Enamul and Rafique in the same test match, irrespective of the fact that Enamul took 7 wickets against Zimbabwe recently.

Its just a question of the wickets. I don't think even India played with 2 specialist spinners in their final eleven in England, let alone Pakistan or Sri Lanka, unless 1 of them is an all-rounder and/or short of a specialist batsman right now as we're facing (the problem of lack of grafters).

Which makes way for Monjurul Islam Rana and Rafique to play in the final eleven - might not be in the first test, but most probably in the 2nd test - in the light of failure of one of our 6 top batsman pointed above in the first post of this thread.
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  #11  
Old March 28, 2005, 11:19 AM
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The playing 11 seems to have these options(Test) :

Top-Ord : JO, Nafees, Bashar

Mid-Ord : Aftab, Rajin, Ashraful, Pilot

Core Bowlers : Rafiq, Mashrafee, Tapash

Last Bowler(Only 1 from these 5)
Spin: Enamul/Rana
Pace: Shahadat/Nazmul/Sujon

Now that becomes a bit difficult choice to make!
Whether the Selectors will go straight for pacers to take advantage of the conditions... will be the deciding factor.


Edited on, March 28, 2005, 4:29 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.
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  #12  
Old March 28, 2005, 11:32 AM
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first off, it does not make any sense to to compare duleep with zim A tour. in duleep trophy the opponents were 5-10 time harder than a second string zim A team (we might call it zim B team). comparison does not work.

2nd logic is the appearence. tushar is out of national team and international arena for a while now. i believe he was no where near the national team since the WC2003 (a chapter we all wanna forget).

3rd as already mentioned, rana did pretty well in WI tour, on which tushar does not have a clue. talking about experience on fast pitch, rana gets the advantage. not to mention that rana's bowling stat was better than rafique (mind it, rana 5 wicket, rafique 0) in WI ODI series, rana played only one test, so hard to compare. and since we are gonna see one team for both test and odi, tushar does not have a chance.

razab mentioned his partnership with bashar, but i think more importantly one is in asia cup with ashraful.

and also, like fw, i also don't think we'll play both rafique and enamul. one big reason is, i think enamul is yet to prove himself. he has not done enough to be an autometic selection in england condition. yes, that zim team did not know how to play spin. a performance agaist them does not count for much.
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  #13  
Old March 28, 2005, 12:33 PM
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Hmm..Interesting turn in the discussion.

Even though this thread is about 7th Batsman (but from JO to Pilot makes 7 of them already, considering pilot to be a significant mid-order bat)... the team seems to be needing a more effective bowler than batsman for its 11th position.(Counting that Rafiq/Tapash/Masree... all can bat a bit)
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  #14  
Old March 28, 2005, 12:54 PM
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1.a comparison between the duleep teams and the weak Zim-A team is sheer murkhota
2. what the hell has tushar done to be in the national team?
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Old March 28, 2005, 03:37 PM
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I think its vital to have a left hand opening batsman or at least in the top order. I would say the reason of BD failure in top order batting is lack of left handers. The combination of left hander and right hander not only unsettle the line and length of a bowler ,it also makes positioning of fielding difficult.
so I would go for a left hander. shahriar Nafees (is he left hander? not sure though) to open with nafis iqbal.
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  #16  
Old March 28, 2005, 07:44 PM
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Default a look into ATMR\'s comments

Quote:
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
1.a comparison between the duleep teams and the weak Zim-A team is sheer murkhota
achilaam kinchito budhdhimaan, hoilaam boka. Actually, as the table below shows, you do make a valid point. A comparison between the Zim A bowlers faced by BD Abatsmen and the Duleep bowlers faced by BCB XI indicates that the latter group possess significant edge in 1st class games played. However, on Test match experience, aided by Blighnaut's numbers, the Zim A bowlers have the edge. (I included Blignaut's numbers anyway because he came in a must-win match with a significant point to prove - we should not exclude him).



However the #s only tell part of the story. Most of the Indian pacers are your honest pro type. They are highly unlikely to ever play for the Indian national team. While they may be more exprienced and more accurate than the Zim A bowlers, we can't presume they are so much better that there is no comparison. The factor that makes the biggest difference is the conditions. While the Duleep trophies were greentops by most account, nowhere do the replicate English conditions. Zimbabwe's grouds and weather - during the time of the tour would be closer to what BD will face in England.

Yes in the end, these are imperfect reference points, but not misleadingly so. The indicators they provide should hold.
Quote:
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
2. what the hell has tushar done to be in the national team?
Who would you advocate instead?


Edited on, March 29, 2005, 5:09 AM GMT, by Zunaid.
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  #17  
Old March 28, 2005, 07:54 PM
Samir Samir is offline
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we need a player who can play under pressure and stay on the crease for a while..

Rana seems to be a good choice. he is doing very good in the NCL and in very good form. Another advantage, someoe mentioned that he is left hander. So, i will go for Rana...

As for Tushar, who has a good avg in List A limited overs, i think he should be given a chance in the One Day, but not Test....

Edited on, March 29, 2005, 12:56 AM GMT, by Samir.

Edited on, March 29, 2005, 12:58 AM GMT, by Samir.
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  #18  
Old March 28, 2005, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by crickethorizon
The playing 11 seems to have these options(Test) :

Top-Ord : JO, Nafees, Bashar

Mid-Ord : Aftab, Rajin, Ashraful, Pilot

Core Bowlers : Rafiq, Mashrafee, Tapash

Last Bowler(Only 1 from these 5)
Spin: Enamul/Rana
Pace: Shahadat/Nazmul/Sujon
I agree with you. So it becomes "The last bowling spot for Eng Tour"
And I think it should be one of Shahadat or Nazmul.
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Old March 28, 2005, 10:26 PM
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This is a real easy question - the last batsman should be AL SHAHRIAR ROKON
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  #20  
Old March 28, 2005, 11:28 PM
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paco, can you please provide #s (i.e. stats) plus a logical explanation to back your assertion? I'm not being a smart-pachha. Serious. Perhaps you have some explanation that perhaps some of us have missed?
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Old March 28, 2005, 11:50 PM
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come one rajab, rokon just had a shahrier just had a hattrick of ducks in duleep trophy. so he had been sarcastic.
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  #22  
Old March 28, 2005, 11:56 PM
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sarcasm er emoticon ki? shob shomay sarcasm bujha jay na. B'sides ami to abar murkho manush
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  #23  
Old March 29, 2005, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by razabq
Quote:
Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
2. what the hell has tushar done to be in the national team?
Who would you advocate instead?
Edited on, March 29, 2005, 5:09 AM GMT, by Zunaid.

i wouldn't take a 7th batsman at all. i mean let's face it: what good will it do other than reducing our bowling options? i'd send pilot in as the 7th guy, with rafique, tapash, mashrafe and another bowler following him. i think we should be debating about the last bowling spot.

as for the murkhota part - it wasn't directed at you or anyone else, and it wasn't meant the way it sounds.

oh and btw...i'm all up for playing chacha in the practice matches and letting him in at 7 if he performs.
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  #24  
Old March 29, 2005, 04:07 PM
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The last slot should be filled by Alok.

>> can you please provide #s (i.e. stats) plus a logical explanation to back your assertion?

He just scored a 50. And he can Bowl too. Doesn't he deserve something? Besides, I just like him...may be not.

Edited on, March 29, 2005, 9:18 PM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #25  
Old March 29, 2005, 04:30 PM
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we need 6 bats in the playing XI...7 in the 13 wouldnt be bad. perhaps alok, though one 50 from him isnt winning me over.

here is my england tour order:

ODI:

nafis
rajin
bashar
ash
aftab
tushar
pilot
masri
rafiq or rana
tapash
nazmul

12th: enamul jr
13th: rana or alok

test:

JO
nafis
bashar
aftab
rajin
ash
pilot
rofic
masri
tapash
enamul

12th: shahadat
13: rana
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