why are some people blaming jamie siddons?

[BD-Shardul]

Originally Posted by bangladesh_sy
hbk619, one 50 didn't make Tamim and mushy into world class player ok. that one fifty introduced him to the world. but that one 50 doesn't define them for the rest of his career. The reason tamim, mushy, riyad, shakib are talk of the town is because of their recent success with batting and not because they scored a 50 back in 2007.

Credit should be given where its due. so stop being kipta and the least you can do is praise JS for the batting improvement Tamim, Mushy, Riyad, Shakib made working with him.

Add to that, everytime Tamim scored big, he effusively praised JS in post match conference or match presentation. Do we know more than Tamim? Some of us do unfortunately and therefore keep saying that JS did nothing to improve our batting.

[hbk619]

Originally Posted by bangladesh_sy
find me one article where he says, I tell the boys to play their natural game and i'll listen to you? ok?

dude, You are going to find several articles about JS's natural game theory. GOOGLE AND BANGLADESH NEWSPAPERS ARE YOUR BEST FRIENDS. Do me a favor, research all the articles about JS. Research all the interviews of all our players. Members like Murad, Eshen, Raynmen are making false statements about natural game? OR check BC threads, your are going to find several threads about JS and his natural game theory. So besides them, other members are also making false statements?

as for game plan read this, this is from cricinfo after 4th day of the 2nd test
"The game got away from us in the 25 or so overs of terrible batting. Our aim was to get through today and regroup for tomorrow. I'm not sure what went wrong, whether the boys felt the pressure of the big occasion or if they thought they could go out and actually get the runs but it was certainly not in the plan, the way Tamim played," Siddons said.

If that's the case, then he wouldn't let Tamim to play attacking cricket. Tamim mentioned on prothom-alo that our goal was to score as many runs as possible on 4th day by playing aggressive cricket. Tamim's view was by playing agressive cricket, 400 runs can be chased. JS also supported Tamim. Neither Tamim/JS mentioned to keep wickets in hand. Playing aggressive cricket caused 5 wickets for 80-90 runs at the end of the day.

Siddon said just a few days ago that he didn't want ash and aftab in his batting line up at the same time. so what makes you think he would want to put him on his team? I didn't see any article or new clips or he backed up Aftab's inclusion in the team. Maybe selectors (his bosses) told him he had to put him in the team and he had no choice. I said MAYBE. Don't blame him without knowing the truth.

Selectors didn't take any part in NZ tour. They just declared the team squad. The final XI was selected by the Coach, assistant coach, Manager, and captain.

"That's just the way he plays. He bats in the same way as a Sehwag. We all loved it when he got 68 in the first innings and 150 odd against India. But the other boys have to realise that just like it's not all about [Mohammad] Ashraful, it's not all about Tamim. They have to stand up and perform."

read this part as well. ok. I love how in the same exact same article JS said tamim likes to play like Shehwag and you said cricket is not a one man show. so you picked up on only that part and started bashing JS. yet in that very same article JS pretty much answer to what you are complaining about.

dude compare and contrast between Shewag and Tamim. Both of them play attacking cricket. But Shewag got one thing, that Tamim doesn't have. Shewag can select his shot according to the merit of the ball. He knows when to hit sixes and fours. Shewag got the temperament, where Tamim doesn't have the temperament. Shewag built those qualities, at his learning stage. Playing like Shewag is fine, but u need to know the basic cricket knowledge first in order to be successful. Tamim also got some qualities. Can hit boundaries any time! Ability to score quick runs! But he doesn't have shot selection and temperament. If tamim got two qualities, then he wouldn't go against vettori after hitting a six. That time vettori came to bowl to stop Tamim. And boka Tamim fell into the trap.

Obviously you haven't been following BD cricket properly, if you did you would have known one of the first goal JS set for our team was not to depend on one player. you don't believe me, ask other members

Am i talking about depending on one player or not? dude, you made a statement that we are not talking about. We are talking about if the coach could've done this and that, that the team would produce much better performance, and we would see wining matches rather than shommanjonok porajoy. We are discussing about what the coach should do in future.

2 things. number 1) where did you see me complain about riyad/mushy/nayeem?
number 2) indeed team management is lucky to have players like riyad/mushy/nayeem. but who made these batsman's into what they are today? Answer: JS. again clearly you don't follow BD cricket properly if you did you would have known riyad thanked JS for working with him and helping him fix his technique.

Now, u took my statements totally in a wrong way. I'm not talking about complaining. What I said if you drop those 3 players, the team will go back to the same old fashion. This 3 players make a huge difference in the team since 2007. These 3 players make the team competitive. When the team is in trouble, riyad/naeem/mushy come to rebuild the batting innings. And it happens in most matches.

The team has improved, but not that much improvement as I predicted after JS came. Your statements make that hbk619's point of view is that the team has not improved. But, that's not my point of view.

[Ajfar]

I'm not here to make JS look like hero or villain. All i'm saying is credit should be given where its due. You on the other hand seems like you are not willing to give him any credit what so ever, you claim that mushy, tamim, shakib are product of whatmoore era. and they were world class players from the moment they walked in to the team. and I can't accept that. JS has made a lot decisions thats are questionable but I will thank him for the few good things he has done. and that is give us some batsman's we can count on. If you can't even agree with that there is no point wasting time in debating with you.

[dolcevita]

The series against England will tell about where we are as cricket nation .
So enjoy the serie then we can judge Siddons

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[One World]

So should the blame game restart after team selection. Although people seem happy for Suvo, hope he brings some Suvo-thing to the team, I saw a huge number of post for dropping Aftab. The summed up reasons can be his laziness, his occassional flash in the pan shots that ends up in sitter, his RBW deficiency and if he is selected in a worst case scenario then should be sent down the order etc. Now how come we overlook the real performers over him? I strongly believe it is not Siddons's own decision alone but as Rokibul is taken off to make room for the "mejbani" boy - is this a selection panel's flaw?

He might deliver, although the second practice match says different.

[zainab]

Well, BCB is finally employing a psychologist for the team to iron out their mental weakness.

This should have an impact on team's performance.

[Sohel]

"Blame" is not the word that leaps to mind when I think of Sid. I think he's been a bad hire for the job of head coach for a structurally flawed cricket development system such as ours. He'd also be a far better batting coach for teams without our issues. So I blame BCB for hiring him and not a proven coach, within our context, such as Richard McInnes.

What I dislike most about Sid is his habit of blaming players when things go wrong and taking credit when they succeed. That kind of selective, Lotus Kamal-like accountability doesn't fly well with me at all.

If players don't do what you ask them to do and fail as a result, something he, a "natural game" enthusiast says and I doubt very much, that has everything to do with his failure to motivate his young players. The guys who have improved, improved because of natural progression aided by the technical insights that he and others must provide as a coach. Tamim is a good example of that. His improvement started in the NCL months before Sid's name appeared on the list. I don't think Riyad would have succeeded any less under another coach. Players always acknowledge coaches no matter what. Politeness is a good tradition we have.

I say "natural progression" because the same insights didn't work with others who continue make the unforced batting errors at the wrong time the way we have been since the Deccan Blues years. That's zero progress as far as fundamental batting technique and temperament are concerned. We just have far more talented players with significantly better hand-eye coordination and attitude than the Biriyani stuffing Schmos of those golden years now selecting players for the highest level. Let's not lose sight of that fact and make him out to be more than what he is. The buck has to stop with the head coach of a young team.

[Zobair]

The truth about Siddons' contribution to Bangladesh's success and failures has been somewhere in the middle of the extremes being presented by some here. He has come a long way from the time he first started coaching Bangladesh. Having been closely associated with the all-winning Aussie team and having been a high-quality batsman in his prime he came armed with best technical knowledge as can be expected from an international coach, particularly as, at the time, we were looking for someone to iron the technical deficiences of our fickle batsmen. My personal impression is that gradually, armed with a better understanding of the culture and the socio-economic circumstances that shape the mental attitude of his young charges he has learnt how to communicate his ideas more effectively. Anyways, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I am ready to wait until the end of the 2011 world cup to assess his overall impact on the fortunes of our team.

[al-Sagar]

i may start to blame if BD play both aftab and junaed and they fail.

[NKVD]

Sohel NR bhai and all of us in general - I think we as a nation should all deserve credit for this huge and very significant progress we have made into the world of Test Cricket. All of us deserve credit - the ICC winning team, Saber Chow, Mr. Koko's high performance initiatives, Richard Mcc, Dave Whatmore, that great South African Eddie Burlow, and now Jamie Siddons.

Its best to leave it at that, and have fun, unless ofcourse you think Siddons is a Mohsin Kamal.

If you think so, maybe think for once about our challenges before picking individuals as scrapegoats, and deciding where the buck stops.

I am a little astonished as to how you thought Richard Mcc. who was our u-19 coach would have fit so well into our natl team's responsibilities.

Now I know you are not a naive man - but you just proved that you are emotional. We all like Richard.

You were not even in this board, when Richard used to be bashed here 24/7, only because he wanted some math help for his GF. I know, because that was when I had stumbled across this gem of a website between my construction certificate classes.

At the end, we judge everything in our lives as Bengalis, based on the outcome. We change our minds instanteneously. So as a senior member here, its good if we can learn more from you on what Siddons can do differently to be all of our favorite coach, and how you think it will help the team, and individual players who collectively contribute to that success.

That will be an interesting read.

[M.H.Rubel]

Setting the best 11 and batting order against England, today it will be very tough job probably it is the toughest call in last 1 year.Setting of todays best 11 will give some indication about Jimmi's ability as a head coach. I am waiting for the it.

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[hbk619]

Originally Posted by reyme
This is what happens when you have a head coach who cant come up with a decent gameplan.

sorry reyme bhai to quote ur post from other thread

Siddons fans! it's proved again. In his era, players are showing individual performance. Where is the team performance?

Batsmans like Junayed in the team?
Aftab as a defensive batsman?
No promotion for Riyad?
Still believe Riyad will always produce 50-60 runs at #-7-8?
Believe that Naeem will always have a blast?


Siddons fans are like SHamim Chowdhury. Alpotei tushto! "oh he is playing sensibly. He is showing a great maturity." At the next ball, batsman threw his wicket away.

[NKVD]

Originally Posted by hbk619
Batsmans like Junayed in the team?
Aftab as a defensive batsman?
No promotion for Riyad?
Still believe Riyad will always produce 50-60 runs at #-7-8?
Believe that Naeem will always have a blast?

Your style of writing is de-generative. Hear yourself - you are just spewing illness in your efforts to disclaim him.

If you are at all objective, you would have generalized Siddons' biggest failure as to not have created our top order, despite 2 years. After all, his specialization is batting.

Zunaid being in the team - there can be 100 reasons, with none of them having to do anything with Siddons. While I disagree with them, ppl want Z for his catching abilities.

Aftab is a defensive bats - what does that even mean. He was RO yesterday, and that too induced by Tamim. Check the replay.

No promotion from Riyad - he made a 0 yesterday. What are you talking about?

Riad and 50 runs - you discredit that assertion, and yet you want to promote it.

Naeem and blast - he plays better more often than not.

Get a life buddy, or identify Siddons' true failures.

[simon]

cant blame Jamie,lokk at how often our btsmen are scoring 100s.
It's just a mystery or bad luck that we are not getting 2-3 big innings in the same match.
But once we get 2-3 good innings in nthe same match we will win inshaallah.

[One World]

We are making more runs definitely and taking more wickets - in both long and short version. But we are not winning against G8 which was almost turning into a habit in 2007.

The difference is we collectively performed like crap in most matches in a series and then in one match we would totally change and just annihilate the opponent to humiliation. It seems the team chemistry is not somewhere in the winning mode at all. Individual achievements are getting higher importance. If they can combine as a unit or if JS can infuse that team work we can just touch the sky. Definitely fielding, catches and wicket-keeping become a deciding factor in many recent matches we played.

[reyme]

Jamie's true failure? Don't even let me get started!
How about not being able to play 3 consecutive games against G8
teams with same 6 batsmen after coaching for 2.5 years?

How many games were lost due to poor gameplans, wrong decisions, and mindless selection.
Yes it is him who decides the final 11 and batting orders.

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[reyme]

Hbk619 thank you! You are reiterating what the greats like gavaskar, shastri,
arshad ayub (Indian manager) observed and said. As a matter of fact, this has been the general tone for all the commentators who are watching the BD games up close and in person.
But those blind JS fans who pretend not to hear that, and continue to support him
regardless what he does ( what does he do by the way?) then it is their choice. I one for know gavaskar has a pretty good life.

Jamie is hiring guys, to clean his underwear and kiss his feet.
May not pay much but could be a very good life.

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[Gowza]

his big failure is not moving mushy and riyad up the order, i can deal with naeem being kept down the order in one-dayers to bat the last 10 overs but these days mushy, riyad and shakib come in really early anyway so they're already facing the conditions and dealing with the pressures of what a middle order batsman has to deal with. the fact that our top/middle order is so fragile means that in effect the lower order often becomes our middle order in the sense that they end up playing the role of the middle order which in itself is preparing them as middle order batsmen. this stuff about leaving them where they are to develop is bogus, they're already playing as middle order batsmen because the top/middle order can't do their job, cut away the fat and let proven performers do their job.

siddons biggest problem atm is sticking with players like ash, aftab and junaid and his unwillingness to promote riyad and mushy.

[Haradhon]

Originally Posted by wasi90lkv1
sometimes he supports ashraful, because ashraful does good sometimes. ashraful has 5 test centuries and a few good ODI innings (including one in the last tri-series).

i believe siddons does have a game plan, but players may not follow the plan sometimes.

tamim is doing fine, i think he scores enough runs as an opener.

junaeed's technique has improved a lot over the last few months. he can hit the ball properly now, something he could not have done very well 2 years ago.

i think siddons is doing a decent job.

JS does not seem to have any plan for some batsmen who take the game away from us, like the way Collingwood did yesterday and Jacob Orum did in the 1st ODI in NZ. Shakib is too young of a captain and is not capable of knowing what to do on the fly; JS should send some message half way through the match.

[hbk619]

Originally Posted by NKVD
Your style of writing is de-generative. Hear yourself - you are just spewing illness in your efforts to disclaim him.

If you are at all objective, you would have generalized Siddons' biggest failure as to not have created our top order, despite 2 years. After all, his specialization is batting.

Zunaid being in the team - there can be 100 reasons, with none of them having to do anything with Siddons. While I disagree with them, ppl want Z for his catching abilities.

Aftab is a defensive bats - what does that even mean. He was RO yesterday, and that too induced by Tamim. Check the replay.

No promotion from Riyad - he made a 0 yesterday. What are you talking about?

Riad and 50 runs - you discredit that assertion, and yet you want to promote it.

Naeem and blast - he plays better more often than not.

Get a life buddy, or identify Siddons' true failures.

I'm not gonna say that much. Otherwise the arguements will continue.

Check the highlights of today's match. If you are wise enough, then compare all the match that we were played before march 2 and today's match. Buddy, the answer is there. One of the major changes that I was talking about it, proved...

[hbk619]

Originally Posted by wasi90lkv1
you definitely do not watch bangladesh cricket i have a feeling, you probably check the scores from cricinfo.com.

under siddons we have improved a lot. 2 years ago we did not have anyone good other than ashraful. now we have 8-9 good players who can perform well.

these players have tried to follow rules and yet they lost games in the past. so when you are losing anyway, it is good to play your natural game and so far this "natural game" policy is working fine (evidence: there are 5 centurions already in 2010).

i do not mind tamim's aggressive batting, i think he has a very healthy average for the last few months playing his "natural game". same goes for shakib.

siddons did not change ashraful, ashraful changed himself. give siddons some credit that we are becoming competitive.

just answer me one simple question, what was bangladesh cricket before siddons took over?

cricket is now way advanced, The theory that our coach is applying is bullshit. He supports so much to players, that even our honorable captain doesn't feel hesitate to talk about mashrafe, raqibul. Nowdays when something bad happens, shakib doesn't even go to press conference. As i said earlier, bangladeshi siddons fans are like shamim chowdhury "alpotei tushto"......now watch our boys playing individual achievement game

[zainab]

SIDDONS is talking too much crap to the media, he should have stitches to his lips. His words come back to bite him. Sakib is following his suit, words like "we will try to play our best" are not used, or we will play competitive cricket. The coach and captain have too much arrogance and loose talk, lacks maturity. and the players do not back them up. Very sad what is happening to BD cricket.

[al-Sagar]

just think of football games. before siddons we used to lose 4-0, 5-0,3-0,4-0,5-0 then suddnely we win 1-0, then again we started to lose 3-0,4-0,5-0,6-0

now we lose 1-0,3-2,2-1,1-0,4-3, 2-0.

before siddons there were days when the teams took us easily and lost to us.

these days knowing we are more capable they dont take us easily like before.

before siddons we were happy with a odd win and good results, now that we are more improved we want more from our side. we want them to play with tactics like aussies.

anyway still i believe siddons could have done far more better.

[dark mage]

Jamie didn't try to change me, he just suggested things that he believed would make me a better cricketer," said Tamim. "He said if I took a wide stance, like Graeme Smith for instance, I would be halfway to the ball already and I'd save myself time when getting on the front foot. If you see him at practice, he's a fantastic batting coach and a brilliant fielding coach as well, the best I've ever seen."
Jamie, like many Australians, speaks a little bit fast, and when he first came in, some guys had a problem with that. But now he speaks to us very slowly, and though there are some guys who understand English very well, there are also some who don't, so I might translate, or Shakib, or Mushy. We have all been working well with him, and the results of what he's done are clear within the team."
Ref : http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/con...ry/452976.html

This is proof of Jamie's good work

[WarWolf]

Originally Posted by dark mage
Jamie didn't try to change me, he just suggested things that he believed would make me a better cricketer," said Tamim. "He said if I took a wide stance, like Graeme Smith for instance, I would be halfway to the ball already and I'd save myself time when getting on the front foot. If you see him at practice, he's a fantastic batting coach and a brilliant fielding coach as well, the best I've ever seen."

This is proof of Jamie's good work

Please quote the reference.

Well...Tamim didn't mention that he is not a good strategician.