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  #1  
Old September 14, 2005, 02:54 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Default 86 all out - who is to be blamed for this?

The coach?
The selectors?
The team management?
The players themselves?
Or the 'suddenly nak uchu' attitude of our players, especially after the famous victory over Australia?
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  #2  
Old September 14, 2005, 02:58 AM
Shakalaka Shakalaka is offline
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All of the Above!

I want to my 50 dollar from BCB that i paid to willow TV for this crap!!

Just Disgusting!

Edited on, September 14, 2005, 7:59 AM GMT, by Shakalaka.

Edited on, September 14, 2005, 8:00 AM GMT, by Shakalaka.
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  #3  
Old September 14, 2005, 03:09 AM
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Spitfire_x86 Spitfire_x86 is offline
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Last 2
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  #4  
Old September 14, 2005, 03:22 AM
aosaif aosaif is offline
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yikes

50 dollars
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  #5  
Old September 14, 2005, 03:34 AM
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the coach ?? not at all
wot can a coach do if the players get out playing same silly shots ova n ova again.. dav can only do upto a limit..all he can do is to tell them n teach 'em about the approach to the game...he cant go n bat for themselves in the middle of the pitch... a teacher can teach all he wants..but its upto the student to apply it on the exam....

the selectors ?? why ??
do we have any other players to select ? gimme one good name who wud hv made a world of difference to this current team...why chop it on the selectors....??

team management ?? may be
but what to blame them for ?? failing to inspire the players ?? not havin a game plan ? u can hv john bucanan, duncan fletcher n bob wolmer all coachn for bd at the same time...dont think it wud make any difference....

the players?? OH HELL YEAH....
i wud blame it completely to the players...
there's nothing the coach, selectors n the management do once u r out in the middle ....
its upto u to apply the knowledge that u hv had...

wrong approach to the game....too many strokes being played...dont u reckon the lankans know that our players LOVES to make big shots....n thats what they were doing in the first innings.... lettin them play...cuz our players doesnt hv the maturity to build up a long innings....they just don hv...

the game finished in 2 1/4 days...results like this is really insulting to the game of cricket itself..it lowers the standard of the whole game...and the countries whoever they r, if they keep on doing it on a consistant basis, they should not be allowed to do so...

if one thing our players r consistent , its their inconsistency and poor performance...

this is one sad day for the criket lovers of bangladesh...n a complete injustice done by our players to those who stood behind them no matter what....

well...all i could do is to wish them luck next game..
or else those bangla bashers r gonna wake up n gonna whip real bad at our boys...
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  #6  
Old September 14, 2005, 03:43 AM
roaring_tiger roaring_tiger is offline
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...we are just not good enough..!!
and going down everyday................
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  #7  
Old September 14, 2005, 04:02 AM
AussieBloke AussieBloke is offline
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A well-oiled machine reflects the efficiency of the mechanic handling the machine. A successful organization reflects the man (CEO) in charge. In commercial world, whenever a company fails to meet its financial year target, the company brings in a new CEO to take the organization out of this doldrum. In my opinion in BD cricket that has been the crux of the problem: not having a good man in charge. We cannot see a catastrophy until it hits us, and even after that most of us remain oblivious to the simmering threat under the layer.

Our players have simply lost their way. They have the talent, but no one to channel that talent. Few victories have temporarily hidden the main problem. Doesnt matter how many hours our players spend in the nets, if they carry on with their flawed approach, they WILL NOT attain the elusive consistency ever. Two years is a long time to mould a few 14 players. if the players cant correct their flaws in 2 years then they never will. But I DONT BELIEVE that it is beyond our players capability. They CAN, but they just have not been properly guided. They did not receive the type of guidance that would have helped them in these 2 years time. I simply dont believe that if Ashraful were instructed little by little how to stay out there and really value his wicket, that he would be in the current state. Just like now, we are blaming the players, yet not addressing the main issue: THE PROPER GUIDANCE.

Some members suggested that it is becoz of the national "defeatist" mentality. If one thinks he has already lost then they may as well give up right now for good. If we believe that our national mentality makes us subjugate to people from developed countries, then on a personal level no one will ever be able to succeed. Doesnt matter if we live overseas or in BD, as long as we think like this we are doomed. If we cant find that inner strength that WE ARE NO LESS THAN THE AUSSIES OR THE POMS, then we are truely a slave nation. I absolutely reject this type of mentality. Therefore, BD cricket team needs someone that can instil that belief in the players. This does not just mean motivational speech, but hands on approach to help the players. If the players see improvement in their performance then their morale would improve and they would start believing in themselves. If this means we need a batting coach, then so be it. But we do need help, and the present help is simply not working.

We talk about the team needing another 4/5 years before it becomes competetive. I dont think so, I think we can see improvement with proper steps even earlier than that. We are not asking for beating the aussies, poms, or the sri lankan team. We just want the team to put up a good fight, to make the opposition earn their victory. If the BD team can put up fights game after game, then surely one day they will turn into a really fighting bunch. Lets say, until our next series (the gap we will have) our batsmen can go to the drawing board and sort out the problems, or at least try to find out where they are going wrong. It could be (i) batting grip (ii) foot movement (ii) not knowing where the offstamp is (iv) not picking the ball when it rises above eye level etc. It could be so many things. Identifying it is half the battle, I think.

So who to do that? I dont think the current coach has it in him to do that. He needs to drastically change his approach of the game. His success with SL is absolutely immaterial in this case. His proven technique is not working for BD. So it has to change.He may have done a lot, he may have taken us to where we are now, but he needs to change his gameplan if we are to reach that next level.

So my choice: The coach, to an extent our selectors (former national players) who should have helped the players with their flaws. One member said that we have reached the bottom of the pit, so we can only go up. Without sounding pessimistic, we have to remember the lowest test score is still 26. So we may not have reached the bottom yet. How long before we really take notice that what we need now is proper guidance?
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  #8  
Old September 14, 2005, 04:27 AM
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istiak istiak is offline
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I think Sydney is completly correct!

Whatever we are writing in these forums our plyers are still too weak to play in test circle...
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  #9  
Old September 14, 2005, 05:28 AM
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tarifmahmud tarifmahmud is offline
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Sorry I dont think so. To play test cricket and to play better cricket are inter-linked.....you can not do without the other. .................Just let see what they in the next match,...when u dont have the attacking bowling side you can not expect to put big fight on. if they can bat aggressively and put some big 1st innings total, the mach will at least not be one-sided.
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  #10  
Old September 14, 2005, 05:55 AM
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guy_zin guy_zin is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tarifmahmud
...when u dont have the attacking bowling side you can not expect to put big fight on.
we should drag in SHANTO to give more attacking power to our fragile bowling attack...what do you think?
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  #11  
Old September 14, 2005, 05:57 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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AussieBloke,

I think the people who still don't realize after reading your post will never realize our definite problem at this moment.

It's like some BD parents are totally happy having a BUET student / teacher as their kids private teacher, no matter what the outcome is, and just hope someday the kid will do / get better because the teacher himself is a top class.

We need a new coach / approach to our boys, what we learn from Dav will not get lost either, rather new coach will bring new thoughts, approach, influence, which will bring new breeze in the team and players. Remember the drastic change when Dav came to our team? Remember those AUS, PAK, WI tour? didn't we step forward instead of step back? If you give all the credit to Dav and his high profile for those success then my argument is pointless. Those performance shows our players are capable and they certainly deserve their due credit for those success, which caused from new thoughts, approach, influence too. Now we have been playing under Dav quite a long time but still making the same mistake over and over SINCE after WI tour! NONE of the players including young are performing up to their capability SINCE that WI tour, Which means Dav himself has no clue what to do with this situation, let alone try to fix them.

When Dav says it's not about "technique" or "skill", it's all about "mindset", "confidence", "need habit of win" I agree with him, and That's why I believe we need a new coach, new approach, new thoughts for our team and players. Things never get better from worst, until a drastic change from the TOP, and it's a proven TRUTH throughout the world.
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  #12  
Old September 14, 2005, 05:58 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by guy_zin
Quote:
Originally posted by tarifmahmud
...when u dont have the attacking bowling side you can not expect to put big fight on.
we should drag in SHANTO to give more attacking power to our fragile bowling attack...what do you think?
Yeah, nice one.:P
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  #13  
Old September 14, 2005, 06:06 AM
Shish Ahmed Shish Ahmed is offline
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None of the players want to put their heads down and play and innings. It's all come in play a few shots and go back to the pavillion and put your feet up and check the bank balance at the end of the month.!!!

Who is working hard ???? Nobody!!
Who is dedicated to the cause ??? Nobody!!
None of the Bd batsmen have got the patience to play test cricket.

At this rate none of the players will learn how to play test cricket. -- They should practice for six hours a day so they can learn how to bat for six hours in a test match...
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  #14  
Old September 14, 2005, 06:11 AM
mzia mzia is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sydney

the players?? OH HELL YEAH....
i wud blame it completely to the players...
there's nothing the coach, selectors n the management do once u r out in the middle ....
its upto u to apply the knowledge that u hv had...
A. These players all are Bangladeshi, and salaried member of BCB.

B. Lion portions of salaried personnel of Bangladeshi Government, semi Government and autonomous organizations are categorically careless, non-accountable, selfish, lack of determination and carrying bogus narcissism.

A=B; result 155/2 to 188 all-out and 86 all-out.

“This result does not represent our ability, our talent level is much higher, but we are unable to capitalize that. In next match we will try to do better.” –author is unknown but tone is very known.
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  #15  
Old September 14, 2005, 08:31 AM
One World One World is offline
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What I want to ADD (as all of you are more or less correct about your views) is that lack of research,

How many of our Batsmen watched videos of recent matches of Srilanka so they could have a good understanding how Muralitharan, Malinga, Arnold, Herath bowls to their opponent? What field placings they use for hard-hitters, right-handers or left-handers?
How many of our bowlers (except Rafique-I dont want to blame him) researched the Srilankan's Batsmen? Their favorite strokes, cuts, hooks and drives? Which portion of the field is there easiest and comfy zone?
I doubt our players know most or all of that. Technology has reached at a stage where you cannot remain competent at your profession if you do not continue spending time determined to make a difference.
You all will agree its not only cricket, every facet of our life needs proper care to protect ourselves. They humiliated us the fans, the country which is full of humiliating politicians but I think the biggest humiliation they brought to is to themselves (as a cricketer) and to their profession.
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  #16  
Old September 14, 2005, 08:51 AM
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BangladeshFan BangladeshFan is offline
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factors
1. complacency
2.murali
3.turning pitch

nonfactors
1.coach & captain
2.bcb
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  #17  
Old September 14, 2005, 08:56 AM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Someone mentioned "Performance based salary structure" in a thread...

Maybe not that... but it's sure time to have a "humilliation fine" to be introduced for specially the Batsmen of the team!

I strongly think that the team is suffering from "overconfidence syndrome" after the England tour!
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  #18  
Old September 14, 2005, 09:00 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BangladeshFan
factors
1. complacency
2.murali
3.turning pitch

nonfactors
1.coach & captain
2.bcb
Looks like the game-plan to "practice against murali look-alike nameless local bowler" didn't worked very well. He may looked like murali, but definitley he was not bowling anything near murali. Except for Bashar, rest of the batsman were pretty much clueless against both of the spinners.

Shouldn't they be a little better prepared, if they instead spent more time (in Dhaka) batting against Rafique, Enamul and Razzak instead that nameless local look-alike spinner?
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  #19  
Old September 14, 2005, 09:04 AM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tarifmahmud
if they can bat aggressively and put some big 1st innings total, the mach will at least not be one-sided.
Sorry, but I can not agree with you on this. In test cricket, there is no aggressive batting unless you are Australia and England. We are not at that stage yet. Look at SL'n middle order innings.
+KC Sangakkara 30 (82)
TT Samaraweera 78 (198)
DPMD Jayawardene 63 (120)

Certainly I do not see any aggressive batting. Test Cricket is patience. That gave us 155/2. Our boys need to learn that.
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  #20  
Old September 14, 2005, 09:25 AM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Players fault. Agreed!! Not patient enough.
Evaluation:
JO - "F" -I fault ReckMyBack and others for his performance. "his stricking rate is not high, needs to be dropped from the ODI team etc. Well now you have it 160% Stricking rate.
SNafees - "D" -Expected more but since debutdant will give some slack.
H Bashar - "C" -I am being generous because of his personal issues.
Ash - "D-" -was going to get an F but atleast he tried in the 1st innings. the second innings was unfortunate umpire's decision. held onto a good catch.
Aftab - "F" -Now this grade is way below "F". Needs to sit out few series to correct his mental approach on Test cricket. It is not a 20/20 game.
Khaled Mashud - "C"
Rafique - "C+" -Batting wise not upto par.
Rasel - "B+" -Inclined to give an "A". Judging his bowling and batting (3rd highest scorer on the team - wow)
S Hossain - "C" -Leaking too many runs.
E Haque Jr - "C" -No wickets.

Coaches fault, Yes!
Management's fault, Yes!
Selectors fault, Yes!
will explain my views later have to run now.
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  #21  
Old September 14, 2005, 09:41 AM
oracle oracle is offline
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Quote:
What I want to ADD (as all of you are more or less correct about your views) is that lack of research
quite right. i would like to add that i seriously doubt if the players do any homework "on their own" about opposition players. Like- do they check the web, study the videos like it should be done or for that matter exercise some individual initiative to enhance their skills?

From my observation it seems that the majority of them still need to be spoon fed by our "foreign" coaches. And i suspect that the players from England, Australia and New Zealand are far more creative in employing new methods and training to focus on weaknesses.

Having said that, all this debate is focused on a secondary issue. The main problem is that we lack a quality domestic competition where the players can play good cricket away from the international spotlight.
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  #22  
Old September 14, 2005, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cats_eye
Coaches fault, Yes!
Management's fault, Yes!
Selectors fault, Yes!
Selectors fault!! "F"
If they had any idea of talent and limitaion of our players they would have did their job better. Starting with Rajin Saleh. His game is more suited for the Test rather than ODI. Yet the selectors chose him for ODI and drop him from the test (his ave in test is second highest after Bashar in test among current players). In the ODI practice match he scores 50+ in 100+ balls and stays at the crease for 44 overs. With this indication selectors still can't see the need of Rajin in test cricket. More over he is the best fielder in our team (almost everyone agree). Why chose him for ODI? he didn't play a match. was not the 12th man. So he was there to enjoy SL'n weather????

That brings Chacha and 12th man. Enough on that.

2nd Rana: ICC sees him as emerging talent but our selectors can not see that. Ironically he has the 3rd best average among the current test players (Bashar and R Saleh). That must say he is more patient than any of the ones we are playing. He is also not in the test side.

Management fault: "F"
Looking at the past we did well in 3 tours. Aus, WI and Pak. We had good preparation and I think the team left a month early to practice in Aus. The WI tour was after that so we had continuity. Then in English tour we did not have a good preparation and got creamed. Apart from one win against the aussies our performance was way below par. Fielding was horrible.

Then a 2 month braek. Very little preparation time. Knowing the rainy season was coming they should have called up the boys eariler for more practice. May be set up games with Dhaka, Chittagong or other division teams. It is the management's fault because of our lack of preparation and 3rd grade fielding. No excuse. if you donot learn from the past then you need to leave the post and let others handle who can do better.

Phycio - Mr. Close. What is the management doing? Our players are getting their life snatched out. Where is Andy Roberts? May be he can communicate better with Mr. Close on his bowlers injury and get attention ASAP.

Coach's fault: "F"
Mr. Motivator could not motivate his team. Hope he does better in the future. There are two types of players in our team. JOmar, HBashar, KMasud, MRafique and the junior players Snafees, Ash, Aftab, Tushar, NIqbal, Rasel, SHossain, and Enam JR. When the coach sees the inconsistancy in his players and can not be in the middle of the game to scold them or advice them, then he has to implement new tactics. Assign the Senior players as a mentor to Junior players. Many of you may have read the article where Aminul was advicing/encouraging/installing patience to Ash on his debut century every step. May be the senior players need to do the same to this inexperienced bunch. JO taking on the Nafees and Nafiz, Bashar on Ash, Aftab, Masud on Tush, and Rafique on the bowlers. That would also encourage the senior players perform better to lead by example. One can not create a leader. A leader emerges when the correct situation arises. Creating this enviorment is the coaches job.

Performing in the middle matter most. Obviously the coach can not get the message across and the team performance is going down. He must do something different, something quickly. That may help to build a team chemistry and team mentality. Right now it is bunch of individuals playing with out any clue - atleast thats what is seems like.

Last but not least, the Coach needs to implement curfew and stay in the practice field (batting) twice as much as they are doing currently. There is no alternative to practice.

Edited on, September 14, 2005, 4:49 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.

Edited on, September 14, 2005, 4:51 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.
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  #23  
Old September 14, 2005, 01:00 PM
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Sovik Sovik is offline
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I blame only the players. 152/2 to 188 allout, i never imagined that. and 86 allout
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  #24  
Old September 14, 2005, 01:02 PM
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Right_Way Right_Way is offline
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Some body better get fired.
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  #25  
Old September 14, 2005, 01:25 PM
gravitY gravitY is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sovik
I blame only the players. 152/2 to 188 allout, i never imagined that. and 86 allout
I totally agree with you!!! 152/2 then 188 allout, unthinkable.. absolutely ridiculous..
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