Do religiously zealous sportsman offend your beliefs?

[al Furqaan]

is religion better left in the church/mosque/temple or should sportsman use the field/court as a stage to showcase their religious affiliations?

a few videos:

Larry Johnson 1999:



Ashraful 2007:



Kurt Warner 2009:

[HereWeGo]

I do not see y it should offend anyone. It is this nature of intolerance that breeds religious extremism. It does not offend me. None of the 3 videos said anything that was offensive. Secularism teaches you tolerance for others and thats wat i preach...

[BANFAN]

Why should it be? It's their pesonal choice !! They aren't forcing any one to do the same !!

[AsifTheManRahman]

I couldn't care less. T20 aitache, maar Ashrafuilla maar! That's all I care about.

[Akib]

Personally does not matter. Its not like they are like forcing anyone to do anything. They are just expressing their beliefs, and I am perfectly fine with that.

[indianx]

More examples:

Tiger Woods talking about Buddhism (though he is by no means zealous):

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/...d-being-a-dad/

Shivnarine Chanderpaul thanking Lord Shiva after winning the man of the match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMZ1Yt3vUDs

There's also Lance Armstrong who talked about being a secular agnostic in his autobiography.

Each sportsman has an unique spiritual background and the freedom to make it known to whatever extent he's comfortable with. But, as a fan at home, it does get kind of annoying when they rub it into your face.

I remember watching the Superbowl with the Colts and the Bears and celebrating at the end because I'm a Colts fan. Then, Tony Dungy comes on after and basically launches into a brief sermon about his Christian beliefs. It just ruined the moment, but I guess if you were a Christian, it would have made you feel better.

[samircreep]

A simple caveat.

A sportsman, especially a team skipper, represents more than himself, he embodies the whole nation, and the best of that nation at that.

When Latiff, our ex team manager, spoke in Urdu in Pakistan to the national state channel a few years ago, it set off a storm back home. I understand that he grew up in Pakistan, went to school there and has a special attachment with the country. But representing your country in the national pakistani media puts the onus on you, especially on an issue like language which BDs are rightly so sensitive about.

The analogy is simple. Ashraful gets on a stand to say anything under international media spotlight, he is no longer just any Bangladeshi speaking for himself. He represents christian, hindu, muslim and atheist BDs. Just a cursory thank you should suffice don't you think?

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by samircreep

The analogy is simple. Ashraful gets on a stand to say anything under international media spotlight, he is no longer just any Bangladeshi speaking for himself. He represents christian, hindu, muslim and atheist BDs. Just a cursory thank you should suffice don't you think?

but what if i am a selfish bangladeshi national who values ungratefulness? i would find even a simply "thank you" offensive and i wouldn't want ashraful representing me in such a manner on an international stage.

facetiousness aside, wouldn't a regular "thanks" be pandering to no one...if we'll be all picky about it, the gift of speech should be done away with since people say things which are offensive to someone all the time. there's a difference between being aggresively offensive and just speaking your mind.

[Tigers_eye]

Not offended but feeling for those individual players as "misguided" when conflicts with belief.

[samircreep]

for someone representing national colors, candor is a privilege not a right. Often times you will want to say something that you feel strongly about but will have to reign in your feelings because of national sentiments. In homogenous societies like BD, you can probably get away with a lot of crap, but it's getting tougher to use religious references in a pluralistic society like the us although u can still invoke god in a lot of cases.

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
but what if i am a selfish bangladeshi national who values ungratefulness? i would find even a simply "thank you" offensive and i wouldn't want ashraful representing me in such a manner on an international stage.

facetiousness aside, wouldn't a regular "thanks" be pandering to no one...if we'll be all picky about it, the gift of speech should be doneg away with since people say things which are offensive to someone all the time. there's a difference between being aggresively offensive and just speaking your mind.

[Zeeshan]

I was born a Muslim; now I am a deist. In my personal life I had to deal with my many religious zealots. But..but...even "I" think they should say whatever they feel like. It's after all freedom of speech. Sameer, I don't agree with your statement that they embody the whole nation. Puh-leez. Ahsrafuilla embodying our whole Bangladesh?! Lol...lol...lol...

And, they are human. They are not bound by any rigid laws that they cannot thank their personal creator of choice or their wives or girlfriends or mistresses.

And these videos showed nothing inherently "zealotry." In Oscar they regularly thank God, but that doesn't make them zealots minus the Michael Moore schtik of course.

So my answer is No. They should be entitled to say whatever they want as long as they are not advertising or shoving their beliefs down other people throat. And keeping these in mind all these videos seemed to be 'normal.'

[Neel Here]

option 3.

(now someone should stand up for players' rights to make things even. voting stands at 767 now.)

let me add a caveat : when a player is representing himself only he can say whatever he wants to within the normal limits.

when a player is representing his team/country, esp for a captain, he has to be more circumspect.

Ahsrafuilla embodying our whole Bangladesh?! Lol...lol...lol...

GB bhai, however absurd it may sound, when ash is standing on the podium at the end of a match, he is the ambassador of bangladesh !

cricket is not tennis or golf where country affliations don't matter.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Gopal Bhar
I was born a Muslim; now I am a deist. In my personal life I had to deal with my many religious zealots. But..but...even "I" think they should say whatever they feel like. It's after all freedom of speech. Sameer, I don't agree with your statement that they embody the whole nation. Puh-leez. Ahsrafuilla embodying our whole Bangladesh?! Lol...lol...lol...

And, they are human. They are not bound by any rigid laws that they cannot thank their personal creator of choice or their wives or girlfriends or mistresses.

And these videos showed nothing inherently "zealotry." In Oscar they regularly thank God, but that doesn't make them zealots minus the Michael Moore schtik of course.

So my answer is No. They should be entitled to say whatever they want as long as they are not advertising or shoving their beliefs down other people throat. And keeping these in mind all these videos seemed to be 'normal.'

[Alien]

In first video I couldn't make out a word Larry Johnson said after "All praise to Allah....'

[auntu]

In the first video Larry Johnson's "Allah Akbar"

[Anher]

Originally Posted by Gopal Bhar
I was born a Muslim; now I am a deist. In my personal life I had to deal with my many religious zealots. But..but...even "I" think they should say whatever they feel like. It's after all freedom of speech. Sameer, I don't agree with your statement that they embody the whole nation. Puh-leez. Ahsrafuilla embodying our whole Bangladesh?! Lol...lol...lol...

And, they are human. They are not bound by any rigid laws that they cannot thank their personal creator of choice or their wives or girlfriends or mistresses.

And these videos showed nothing inherently "zealotry." In Oscar they regularly thank God, but that doesn't make them zealots minus the Michael Moore schtik of course.

So my answer is No. They should be entitled to say whatever they want as long as they are not advertising or shoving their beliefs down other people throat. And keeping these in mind all these videos seemed to be 'normal.'

Gopal Da end the discussion right there for me.

[bharat]

I dont mind ..as long as they dont make such comments as these

"'I want to thank everyone back home in Pakistan and Muslims all over the world. Thank you very much and I'm sorry that we didn't win, but gave our 100 per cent,"

--Shoib Malik

[al Furqaan]

for someone representing national colors, candor is a privilege not a right. Often times you will want to say something that you feel strongly about but will have to reign in your feelings because of national sentiments. In homogenous societies like BD, you can probably get away with a lot of crap, but it's getting tougher to use religious references in a pluralistic society like the us although u can still invoke god in a lot of cases.

i just disagree. even in a pluralistic society, shouldn't a person have the right to thank whichever diety he or she wishes? i just don't see why it should come as a personal insult to any non-believer. bear in mind, we are all non-believers according to someone else. if a hindu became captain of BD and decided to thank durga, it wouldn't bother me at all. he has every right to speak his faith/mind, and doesn't necessarily reflect the nation here.

now lets suppose our captain started cussing or trash talking in the post game. in this case, yes, he or she is representing and nation and that shouldn't be allowed (although i have no problem with foul language and use it frequently myself).

I dont mind ..as long as they dont make such comments as these

"'I want to thank everyone back home in Pakistan and Muslims all over the world. Thank you very much and I'm sorry that we didn't win, but gave our 100 per cent,"

--Shoib Malik

i'm sorry all i see here, based on the exact words used, is the classic indo-pakistan oversensitivity towards each other. if ashraful had said the same thing would you have cared as much? meaning is it the content of the statement, or the nationality of the speaker you have issues with?

[bharat]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i
i'm sorry all i see here, based on the exact words used, is the classic indo-pakistan oversensitivity towards each other. if ashraful had said the same thing would you have cared as much? meaning is it the content of the statement, or the nationality of the speaker you have issues with?

In all honesty al Furqaan, my reaction would not have changed had Ash said the same thing.

The statement from Malik is extremely presumptious ! It is not only insulting to every Indian Muslim but all Muslims (atleast cricket following Muslims) around the world.Its a direct insult to Y.pathan and I.Phatan representing India in the same match.

Malik (and others) need to realize that they are not the sole flag bearers of Islam and such presumptious statements is bound to hurt the sentiments of Indian Muslim.( and a BD Muslim if Malik would have said the same statement against BD)

You only need to look at the 'Blogosphere' at the time of this incident to gauge how such a statement offended many , particularly the Indian Muslim eg:
http://indianmuslims.in/hame-aapa-je...-nahi-chahiye/

I hope this supports my argument !


I will end with an intersting argument from Pak Christain ..

"How about Hindu and Christian Pakistanis in the US, Canada and Gulf who supported the Pakistan cricket team? Don’t we count? "

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by bharat
In all honesty al Furqaan, my reaction would not have changed had Ash said the same thing.

The statement from Malik is extremely presumptious ! It is not only insulting to every Indian Muslim but all Muslims (atleast cricket following Muslims) around the world.Its a direct insult to Y.pathan and I.Phatan representing India in the same match.

Malik (and others) need to realize that they are not the sole flag bearers of Islam and such presumptious statements is bound to hurt the sentiments of Indian Muslim.( and a BD Muslim if Malik would have said the same statement against BD)

You only need to look at the 'Blogosphere' at the time of this incident to gauge how such a statement offended many , particularly the Indian Muslim eg:
http://indianmuslims.in/hame-aapa-je...-nahi-chahiye/

I hope this supports my argument !


I will end with an intersting argument from Pak Christain ..

"How about Hindu and Christian Pakistanis in the US, Canada and Gulf who supported the Pakistan cricket team? Don’t we count? "

this is exactly why there is no Nationalism in Islam.

[PoorFan]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i just disagree. even in a pluralistic society, shouldn't a person have the right to thank whichever diety he or she wishes? i just don't see why it should come as a personal insult to any non-believer. bear in mind, we are all non-believers according to someone else. if a hindu became captain of BD and decided to thank durga, it wouldn't bother me at all. he has every right to speak his faith/mind, and doesn't necessarily reflect the nation here.

Well, many of us would not, none in BD should not bother ... yet in reality many in BD demand to be literally Islamic nation, Shariah law since majority are Muslim [as they claim] ... suggests otherwise. Criticism may arise that Hindu captain didnt show respect to majority faith and concern, obviously in time, it may lead unfair selection in the name of social interest. At some point both side can claim as their devine right etc., and since majority and minority balance remain almost as it is ... victim of unfairness bound to exist and increase.

All these talking [above bold lines of my post] are hypothetical but once such religious sect sentiment grows deep down, it become even hard to detect which is right and which is wrong, even more hard to recognize its [unfairness] existance. Tons of example could be found in our human history if we intend to look at.

As PAK captain Malik assumed or believed Muslims all over the world are supporting PAK team by [religious] default, and he felt sorry cause every Muslim felt bad or wished PAK win [again!] by default. And a lot of people may find his comment as right and honest, while people like me find it as lack of consideration or too much self-centric.

I always believe in 'private' and 'public' theory, and when you representing a group of people, its better to keep religion as 'private', unless its a matter of religion itself.

[BD-Shardul]

Originally Posted by bharat

'I want to thank everyone back home in Pakistan and Muslims all over the world. Thank you very much and I'm sorry that we didn't win, but gave our 100 per cent,"

--Shoib Malik

The stupidest comment ever to be made by a cricketer.

[Alien]

Personally, I am not comfortable with people who display their affection for religion in public while not doing the same in private. Its hard to tell them apart which is which. Islam warns of these people.

Amongst the sportsmen I don't know any of them personally to make that assertion but someone like Hashim Amla is clearly devout muslim both on and off field, though his halal-policing of food in Bangladesh was a bit annoying.

[Nafi]

Originally Posted by bharat
I dont mind ..as long as they dont make such comments as these

"'I want to thank everyone back home in Pakistan and Muslims all over the world. Thank you very much and I'm sorry that we didn't win, but gave our 100 per cent,"

--Shoib Malik

Yeh that on the other hand is totally different, most stupid comment Ive ever heard by a cricketer.

[samircreep]

You're not getting the point. No one is making it illegal for Ash or anyone to speak their mind about religion; however, it's incumbent upon the national team captain to proclaim things, especially at an international press conference, to unite the team rather than making isolating comments. And if Ash, as team captain of BD, were to start quoting verses from the koran as inzy does, it would definitely not be a uniting statement would it.

Let's take a non religious example. When imran won the cup in 92, and started blabbering about how his cancer hospital endeavors for his mom inspired his captaincy, 90% of all pakistanis of whatever religion got pissed and rightly so. here was a monumental opportunity for possibly the greatest pakistani captain of all to say something inspiring that speaks for ALL the paksiatni players; instead, he starts blabbeing about his own personal goals (however noble they are) that spotlights him above everyone else in the team.

Again to reiterate: a national captain or ambassador has a different kind of responsibility. If ash starts reciting suras, no one is going to ban him. But if I were a BCB official, I would surely take him aside and rebuke him, just as I would rebuke him for talking **** and getting caught on tv.

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i just disagree. even in a pluralistic society, shouldn't a person have the right to thank whichever diety he or she wishes? i just don't see why it should come as a personal insult to any non-believer. bear in mind, we are all non-believers according to someone else. if a hindu became captain of BD and decided to thank durga, it wouldn't bother me at all. he has every right to speak his faith/mind, and doesn't necessarily reflect the nation here.

now lets suppose our captain started cussing or trash talking in the post game. in this case, yes, he or she is representing and nation and that shouldn't be allowed (although i have no problem with foul language and use it frequently myself).



i'm sorry all i see here, based on the exact words used, is the classic indo-pakistan oversensitivity towards each other. if ashraful had said the same thing would you have cared as much? meaning is it the content of the statement, or the nationality of the speaker you have issues with?