Best Slow-Left-Arm Bowler?

MohammedShamim · #1 June 12, 2013, 08:49 AM

Who is the best SLA around at the moment, could be based on stats, importance etc. I have alway's admired Daniel Vettori as an excellent slow left arm bowler, and I would like say his stats and contribution to NZ is pretty important, a player with an economy rate of less than 4.50 and knowing most of Dan Vettori's game's are played at home (Newzeland) is brillaint.

Daniel Vettori: (Economy: 4.11) (ST:45.9)
Jadeja?
Shakib?
Herath?
Robin Petersen?
Abdur Rehman?

ReZ_1 · #2 June 12, 2013, 12:13 PM

Do we have to pick from the list given? i thought you are asking for the best at the moment. How come abdur rehman and robin petersen comes in the ranks of shakib, herath, you missed ojha monty and razzak too.

sum_1 · #3 June 12, 2013, 01:17 PM

For tests I'd go with Monty and Ojha and Herath.

Jadeja, Shakib, Vettori for ODIs.

Zeeshan · #4 June 12, 2013, 03:24 PM

shakib, akram, gayle

MohammedShamim · #5 June 12, 2013, 04:14 PM

Title is misleading, at first I thought of just SLA but know as a bowling unit, who would you have?
Remember minimum of two pacers: Wasim, Mcgrath, Warne, Murali, Ajmal.. whose yours?

Gowza · #6 June 12, 2013, 10:02 PM

vettori use to be good, recently he hasn't been. in the last 3 years vettori has averaged 39 with a strike rate of 104.

jadeja, it's to soon to really know. he had a great start to his test career as a bowler and his FC bowling stats are great, time will tell.

shakib is pretty good but not currently the best, average of 32, strike rate of 68, needs a bit of improvement on those to be the best.

rehman, averaging 28, strike rate 66. an above average average, not the greatest strike rate. what's impressive is his wickets per match which is about 4.7. pakistan don't have the greatest bowling unit currently but ajmal and junaid khan are pretty good so rehman has done well to manage 4.7 wickets per test with them around him.

herath is probably the current best. in the last 3 years he's got 5 wickets per test match, averaged 25.66 and struck at 58.9. he's even better over the last 2 years getting 5.5 wickets a match at 24.29 striking at 56.8. in the last year he's got 6.1 wickets per test, averaged 23.65 and struck at 54.5.

so you're either looking at jadeja or herath. herath has a been getting better and better each year, jadeja is just starting out but has begun extremely well. i think herath's stats over the last year put him at least on par or perhaps above jadeja and add that he's been pretty good in the last 3 years overall then it seals it for me.

but we should bring this thread back up in a year and see where they are at.

Jadukor · #7 June 12, 2013, 10:30 PM

Shakib and Herath

Tigers_eye · #8 June 13, 2013, 12:11 AM

Herath statistically better than Vettori. (test)

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
DL Vettori (ICC/NZ)	1997-2012	112	185	28670	12392	360	7/87	12/149	34.42	2.59	79.6	20	3
DL Underwood (Eng)	1966-1982	86	151	21862	7674	297	8/51	13/71	25.83	2.10	73.6	17	6
BS Bedi (India)	1966-1979	67	118	21364	7637	266	7/98	10/194	28.71	2.14	80.3	14	1
HMRKB Herath (SL)	1999-2013	47	83	12780	5904	200	7/89	12/157	29.52	2.77	63.9	16	3
GAR Lock (Eng)	1952-1968	49	88	13147	4451	174	7/35	11/48	25.58	2.03	75.5	9	3
Iqbal Qasim (Pak)	1976-1988	50	86	13019	4807	171	7/49	11/118	28.11	2.21	76.1	8	2
MS Panesar (Eng)	2006-2013	48	81	12050	5540	164	6/37	11/210	33.78	2.75	73.4	12	2
MH Mankad (India)	1946-1959	44	70	14686	5236	162	8/52	13/131	32.32	2.13	90.6	8	2
RJ Shastri (India)	1981-1992	80	125	15751	6185	151	5/75	8/179	40.96	2.35	104.3	2	0
H Verity (Eng)	1931-1939	40	73	11173	3510	144	8/43	15/104	24.37	1.88	77.5	5	2
AF Giles (Eng)	1998-2006	54	88	12180	5806	143	5/57	9/122	40.60	2.86	85.1	5	0
AL Valentine (WI)	1950-1962	36	63	12953	4215	139	8/104	11/204	30.32	1.95	93.1	8	2
PR Adams (SA)	1995-2004	45	76	8850	4405	134	7/128	10/106	32.87	2.98	66.0	4	1
W Rhodes (Eng)	1899-1930	58	90	8225	3425	127	8/68	15/124	26.96	2.49	64.7	6	1
PH Edmonds (Eng)	1975-1987	51	84	12028	4273	125	7/66	7/66	34.18	2.13	96.2	2	0
PCR Tufnell (Eng)	1990-2001	42	70	11288	4560	121	7/47	11/93	37.68	2.42	93.2	5	2
J Briggs (Eng)	1884-1899	33	49	5332	2095	118	8/11	15/28	17.75	2.35	45.1	9	4
DR Doshi (India)	1979-1983	33	55	9322	3502	114	6/102	8/103	30.71	2.25	81.7	6	0
Shakib Al Hasan (Ban)	2007-2013	30	50	7242	3476	106	7/36	9/115	32.79	2.87	68.3	9	0
PL Harris (SA)	2007-2011	37	63	8809	3901	103	6/127	9/161	37.87	2.65	85.5	3	0
PP Ojha (India)	2009-2013	22	44	7235	3242	102	6/47	9/165	31.78	2.68	70.9	5	0
JH Wardle (Eng)	1948-1957	28	52	6597	2080	102	7/36	12/89	20.39	1.89	64.6	5	1
R Peel (Eng)	1884-1896	20	35	5216	1715	101	7/31	11/68	16.98	1.97	51.6	5	1
C Blythe (Eng)	1901-1910	19	37	4546	1863	100	8/59	15/99	18.63	2.45	45.4	9	4
N Boje (SA)	2000-2006	43	72	8620	4265	100	5/62	8/134	42.65	2.96	86.2	3	0
Mohammad Rafique (Ban)	2000-2008	33	48	8744	4076	100	6/77	9/160	40.76	2.79	87.4	7	0

Tigers_eye · #9 June 13, 2013, 12:16 AM

Herath has no prayers cause he got 31 wickets in 38 innings. (ODIs)

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
ST Jayasuriya (Asia/SL)	1989-2011	445	368	14874	11871	323	6/29	36.75	4.78	46.0	8	4
DL Vettori (ICC/NZ)	1997-2013	274	257	12999	8919	283	5/7	31.51	4.11	45.9	7	2
Abdur Razzak (Ban)	2004-2013	144	143	7491	5591	201	5/29	27.81	4.47	37.2	5	4
Shakib Al Hasan (Ban)	2006-2013	129	128	6578	4729	161	4/16	29.37	4.31	40.8	4	0
GB Hogg (Aus)	1996-2008	123	113	5564	4188	156	5/32	26.84	4.51	35.6	3	2
RJ Shastri (India)	1981-1992	150	136	6613	4650	129	5/15	36.04	4.21	51.2	2	1
Mohammad Rafique (Asia/Ban)	1995-2007	125	124	6414	4739	125	5/47	37.91	4.43	51.3	3	1
Yuvraj Singh (Asia/India)	2000-2013	282	154	4904	4137	109	5/31	37.95	5.06	44.9	2	1
GW Flower (Zim)	1992-2010	221	156	5462	4225	104	4/32	40.62	4.64	52.5	2	0
RW Price (Zim)	2002-2012	102	99	5374	3575	100	4/22	35.75	3.99	53.7	1	0
N Boje (Afr/SA)	1995-2005	115	108	4541	3415	96	5/21	35.57	4.51	47.3	2	1
Aamer Sohail (Pak)	1990-2000	156	125	4836	3703	85	4/22	43.56	4.59	56.8	1	0
RA Jadeja (India)	2009-2013	67	64	3114	2459	77	5/36	31.93	4.73	40.4	2	1
AR Border (Aus)	1979-1994	273	87	2661	2071	73	3/20	28.36	4.66	36.4	0	0
SB Joshi (India)	1996-2001	69	67	3386	2509	69	5/6	36.36	4.44	49.0	1	1
RJ Peterson (SA)	2002-2013	70	65	2902	2338	67	4/12	34.89	4.83	43.3	2	0

Tigers_eye · #10 June 13, 2013, 12:19 AM

T20 very surprising:

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Abdur Razzak (Ban)	2006-2013	27	27	104.0	3	720	38	4/16	18.94	6.92	16.4	1	0
DL Vettori (NZ)	2007-2012	33	33	128.1	1	720	37	4/20	19.45	5.61	20.7	1	0
Shakib Al Hasan (Ban)	2006-2013	26	26	97.0	1	654	33	4/21	19.81	6.74	17.6	2	0
GH Dockrell (Ire)	2010-2012	19	18	64.4	1	372	27	4/20	13.77	5.75	14.3	1	0
Yuvraj Singh (India)	2007-2012	33	21	52.4	0	373	23	3/17	16.21	7.08	13.7	0	0
RJ Peterson (SA)	2006-2013	20	18	55.5	1	423	21	3/30	20.14	7.57	15.9	0	0
ST Jayasuriya (SL)	2006-2011	31	24	61.5	0	456	19	3/21	24.00	7.37	19.5	0	0
PM Seelaar (Neth)	2008-2013	17	16	57.0	2	358	19	4/19	18.84	6.28	18.0	1	0
SJ Benn (WI)	2008-2010	17	17	59.0	3	414	15	4/6	27.60	7.01	23.6	1	0
SO Ngoche (Kenya)	2010-2013	12	12	36.3	0	251	15	4/14	16.73	6.87	14.6	2	0
RE van der Merwe (SA)	2009-2010	13	13	44.0	0	305	14	2/14	21.78	6.93	18.8	0	0
RW Price (Zim)	2008-2012	16	16	61.3	4	378	13	2/6	29.07	6.14	28.3	0	0
HA Varaiya (Kenya)	2007-2013	18	17	57.2	1	336	12	2/19	28.00	5.86	28.6	0	0
Abdur Rehman (Pak)	2007-2011	7	7	25.0	0	174	11	2/7	15.81	6.96	13.6	0	0
MH Yardy (Eng)	2006-2011	14	13	46.0	0	299	11	2/19	27.18	6.50	25.0	0	0
PP Ojha (India)	2009-2010	6	6	21.0	0	132	10	4/21	13.20	6.28	12.6	1	0
XJ Doherty (Aus)	2012-2013	10	10	35.0	0	276	9	3/20	30.66	7.88	23.3	0	0
Elias Sunny (Ban)	2012-2012	7	7	23.0	1	146	9	5/13	16.22	6.34	15.3	0	1
NO Miller (WI)	2009-2010	7	7	25.4	0	174	9	2/20	19.33	6.77	17.1	0	0
Fawad Alam (Pak)	2007-2010	24	6	15.0	0	95	8	3/7	11.87	6.33	11.2	0	0
RA Jadeja (India)	2009-2012	14	14	45.4	2	331	7	2/26	47.28	7.24	39.1	0	0

MohammedShamim · #11 June 13, 2013, 03:25 AM

Surely you guy's should look at the fact that most of the game's herath played is in sub continent where the wicket help's alot, no? My point was Vettori to have that kind of stats being a New Zeland player is pretty impressive.

BengaliPagol · #12 June 13, 2013, 03:52 AM

It has to be Herath. Herath bowled well when SL toured Australia. Shakib has lost his shine with the ball of recent times in tests.

Gowza · #13 June 13, 2013, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King13
Surely you guy's should look at the fact that most of the game's herath played is in sub continent where the wicket help's alot, no? My point was Vettori to have that kind of stats being a New Zeland player is pretty impressive.

tbh herath hasn't really played enough outside of sri lanka to really know what he's capable in other conditions, so i think you do have grounds to somewhat question him. he's played 27 tests in sri lanka, the most he's played anywhere else is 3. he played 2 in pakistan and did pretty good (average 29, strike rate 58), but in his 3 test matches in india he didn't do well. did ok in his 3 matches in south africa averaging 27 but striking at 69. his 3 matches in australia he averaged 33, striking at 67. he's only played one match in NZ and averaged 40 striking at 82 so you can't really compare but if you did vettori having played 57 of his matches in NZ averages 37 striking at 84. that's a b it of a difference, we don't know whether herath would out perform vettori in NZ but i reckon he would in the long run but obviously it can't be proved.

Gowza · #14 June 14, 2013, 06:13 PM

i think when you get right down to it, in tests herath has been the best over the last 3 years, and possibly the best in the last 12 months with jadeja being the only one that can contend with him over the last 12 months.

as far as ODIs, razzak is currently the best, and though we don't think about it he's quite possibly the best ever left arm spinner in ODIs. let's just take the top 15 wicket takers in ODIs (who bowl left arm spin). there are only 3 players who average less than 30. hogg averages 26, razzak averages 27 and shakib averages 29. razzak is the #2 wicket taker on the list, that's better than both hogg and shakib (shakib is actually #3 for wickets). both hogg and razzak average better and strike better than shakib. hogg averages and strikes better than razzak, his econ rate is just slightly more than razzak's. so i guess statistically hogg is the greatest left arm spinner ever for ODIs (though that can be argued as razzak has more wickets), however he bowled chinaman, that's a different style to razzak.

that makes razzak the current best left arm slow bowler in ODIs.

so for ODIs top 3 are hogg, razzak and shakib. hogg was the best left arm chinaman bowler, razzak is the best left arm orthodox with shakib being the clear #3 (both in terms of how far ahead he is of #4 and how far behind is from both razzak and hogg).

BengaliPagol · #15 June 14, 2013, 08:09 PM

It felt good to hear that Razzak is possibly the best ever SLA in ODIs. He never got the credit that he deserves.

Gowza · #16 June 15, 2013, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
It felt good to hear that Razzak is possibly the best ever SLA in ODIs. He never got the credit that he deserves.

Deserves to get more recognition, I think because he sucked so bad in the tests he played that its kind of tainted his reputation to the cricketing world. But credit where credit is due, there's no doubt he's one of the best SLAs to play ODIs.

Tigers_eye · #17 June 15, 2013, 08:41 AM

That 37 SR is great for any SLA. His 200 ODI wickets is first for any BD player. I am sure Shakib will get there as well but getting there first has its own perks. Mo Rafique first 100.

MohammedShamim · #18 June 15, 2013, 09:37 AM

Jadeja seem's to have more Variation than Shakib.

MohammedShamim · #19 June 15, 2013, 09:38 AM

Majority of Razzak's best innings wickets are against Zimbabwe, Scotland and Canada. only has a 5 wicket against Sri Lanka from the top 8 teams.

Rifat · #20 June 15, 2013, 01:43 PM

Currently(or current form):

In shorter formats, Abdur Razzak.
In Longer formats, Rangana Herath.

All time: Daniel Vettori

Gowza · #21 June 15, 2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rifat
Currently(or current form):

In shorter formats, Abdur Razzak.
In Longer formats, Rangana Herath.

All time: Daniel Vettori

how vettori? just because you have the most wickets doesn't mean you are the best.

Zeeshan · #22 June 16, 2013, 12:51 AM

Possibly he meant, all his lifetime?

sum_1 · #23 June 16, 2013, 02:37 AM

If we're talking about all time, the 2 names that comes to my mind are Derek Underwood (if you can call him a SLA) and Bishen Bedi. Vettori, although a great bowler himself, does not yet belong to the same category as the other 2 gentlemen.

Gowza · #24 June 16, 2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum_1
If we're talking about all time, the 2 names that comes to my mind are Derek Underwood (if you can call him a SLA) and Bishen Bedi. Vettori, although a great bowler himself, does not yet belong to the same category as the other 2 gentlemen.

the issue with these 2 is that they played a fair amount on uncovered wickets giving them better conditions to bowl in than modern left arm spinners, yet they still had very high strike rates. let's give herath his credit here, he average 29 (bedi averages 28 - only slightly better) and his strike rate is just 63.9 which is head and shoulders above underwood, bedi or vettori who all strike at over 70 and in fact bedi strikes at 80.3 with vettori striking at 79.6.

i don't see how bedi or vettori come close to herath. underwood has a case due to his average being in the 25s, otherwise you have to start looking at guys from much earlier to contend with but again they had the advantage of uncovered wickets as did undewood and bedi.

MohammedShamim · #25 June 17, 2013, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
the issue with these 2 is that they played a fair amount on uncovered wickets giving them better conditions to bowl in than modern left arm spinners, yet they still had very high strike rates. let's give herath his credit here, he average 29 (bedi averages 28 - only slightly better) and his strike rate is just 63.9 which is head and shoulders above underwood, bedi or vettori who all strike at over 70 and in fact bedi strikes at 80.3 with vettori striking at 79.6.

i don't see how bedi or vettori come close to herath. underwood has a case due to his average being in the 25s, otherwise you have to start looking at guys from much earlier to contend with but again they had the advantage of uncovered wickets as did undewood and bedi.

I agree Vettori for some reason has not performed well against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, where as Herath has done better than him, In terms of ODI I think Vettori is an out-right winner. Maybe we will have a better understanding when Herath reach's 100 ODI's.