|
Forget Cricket Talk about anything [within Board Rules, of course :) ] |
July 1, 2007, 03:54 PM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069
|
|
History: The Brits were horrified by the Bengali Sadhu Bhasha
That horrible feeling is pouring out in this account of the Bengali language as found in the Imperial Gazetteer (1911):
Quote:
With the advent of the English there arose a demand for prose literature, and the task of supplying it fell into the hands of Sanskrit-ridden pandits. Anything more monstrous than this prose dialect, as it existed in the first half of the nineteenth century, it is difficult to conceive. Books were written, excellent in their subjects, eloquent in their thoughts, but in a language from which something like ninety percent of the genuine Bengali vocabulary was excluded, and its place supplied by words borrowed from Sanskrit which the writers themselves could not pronounce. During the past fifty years there has been a movement, without much success, to reduce this absurd Sanskritization; but, still, at the present day many words current in literary Bengali are mere ideograms. The Bengali vocal organs are not adapted to the pronunciation of Sanskrit words, and so these words spell one thing, and, when read aloud, sound something quite different. Under such circumstances literary Bengali is divorced from the comprehension of every native to whom it has not been specially taught. It is this which is the official language of Government and of missionaries, and which (with few exceptions) is taught in the grammars written for European students. Bengalis themselves call their Sanskritized book-language 'Sadhu-Bhasha' i.e. the 'excellent speech'; but the adjective which they apply to anything approaching their true vernacular is the significant one of 'sweet.' It is this 'sweet' language which everyone with a pen in his hand, be he European or native, endeavours to ignore. It is an instance of history repeating itself. In the old days the classical language was called sanskrit, 'purified,' but the epithet applied to the true vernacular Prakrit was amia, or ' nectar.'
|
|
July 1, 2007, 04:21 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: May 17, 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,496
|
|
Can't disagree. Who continues to use Shadhu Bhasha in written communication anymore?
But it did help Bengali Literature really prosper, and gave us a literary history and foundation that we are very proud of today.
|
July 1, 2007, 04:46 PM
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2005
Location: New England
Favorite Player: Mominul Haque
Posts: 24,706
|
|
Answering to #2
the one and only Ittefaq
__________________
À vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.
|
July 1, 2007, 05:46 PM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069
|
|
Ittefaq finally gave up Sadhu Bhasha in the late 1990s. Now it is found only in old BD Goverment documents.
|
July 1, 2007, 05:54 PM
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: May 18, 2005
Location: New England
Favorite Player: Mominul Haque
Posts: 24,706
|
|
But they still continue it in their editorial.
__________________
À vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.
|
July 1, 2007, 06:11 PM
|
|
Super Moderator BC Editorial Team
|
|
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,678
|
|
what's so hard about shadhu bhasha? unless of course, over the centuries, shadhu bhasha has evolved into something pretty close to non-shadhu bangla, as it is today. that would explain the perils of the brits back then.
__________________
Screw the IPL, I'm going to the MLC!
|
July 1, 2007, 06:13 PM
|
|
Super Moderator BC Editorial Team
|
|
Join Date: February 12, 2004
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ice Man, Chatter Box
Posts: 27,678
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
Answering to #2
the one and only Ittefaq
|
and grade 6/7 bangla teachers, while teaching how to write formal letters.
__________________
Screw the IPL, I'm going to the MLC!
|
July 1, 2007, 06:36 PM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: February 5, 2004
Location: Bethesda, MD, USA
Posts: 3,640
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
and grade 6/7 bangla teachers, while teaching how to write formal letters.
|
Wait! Do people not write formal letters (in Bangla) using Shadhu Bhasa anymore? I still do (and yes, it was instilled in me by the Class 6/7 Bangla teachers).
|
July 1, 2007, 06:40 PM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
what's so hard about shadhu bhasha? unless of course, over the centuries, shadhu bhasha has evolved into something pretty close to non-shadhu bangla, as it is today. that would explain the perils of the brits back then.
|
Actually, the history of the written Bengali language is a little different. There was very little prose before the Brits came. And in the second half of the 19th century, the prose was written in the artificially pundit-created Sadhu Bhasha. These Sankrit pundits were based in Kolkata, and they got a stranglehold over the language's early prose form for nearly 50 years. It's only in the beginning of the 20th century when Rabindranath, Promotho Choudhuri and others started writing prose, in a prolific manner, in what is now considered the Standard Colloquial Bengali, which is basically the dialect of Bengali spoken in and around Kolkata. In time, over the rest of the 20th century, a slightly different Dhaka-based standard has also evolved, but it's more or less based on the SCB.
|
July 1, 2007, 06:42 PM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaad
Wait! Do people not write formal letters (in Bangla) using Shadhu Bhasa anymore?
|
Well, it's still there. But trend is towards using Cholito Bhasha in official letters as well.
|
July 1, 2007, 07:31 PM
|
|
Cricket Guru
|
|
Join Date: February 28, 2007
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,915
|
|
ha ha ha sadhu basha.....man thats is sooo back dated.. even though it did sound kind kool!!! but BANGLISH is kooler!!!
|
July 1, 2007, 08:07 PM
|
Administrator
|
|
Join Date: January 22, 2004
Posts: 22,100
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by antora93
ha ha ha sadhu basha.....man thats is sooo back dated.. even though it did sound kind kool!!! but BANGLISH is kooler!!!
|
Banglish is a kop out - a klear way to eksibit our deficiencies in both languages.
|
July 1, 2007, 08:40 PM
|
|
BC T-Shirt Design Winner
|
|
Join Date: June 19, 2005
Location: Camden, London
Favorite Player: Mashrafe Mortaza
Posts: 7,199
|
|
I think Sadhu bhasha in recent times aren't as complicated as it was back then, at least nothing that I've read. I'm just glad Bangla turned out the way it did, coz it's beautiful.
|
July 1, 2007, 09:45 PM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatebreed
I think Sadhu bhasha in recent times aren't as complicated as it was back then, at least nothing that I've read. I'm just glad Bangla turned out the way it did, coz it's beautiful.
|
That makes no sense. Sadhu bhasha has a rigid form, and hasn't really changed much. In fact, there's an oft-cited usage rule in Bengali that says "Sadhu-Choliter misron dushoniyo", i.e., "Don't mix Sadhu and Cholito in the same prose". There has been no evolution in Sadhu bhasa. For a long time during the 20th century, Sadhu and Cholito existed side by side, with the Sadhu slowly falling out of use in literature. Cholito is less stilted, more fluid and allows more expressions that sound natural and capture emotions better.
|
July 1, 2007, 11:10 PM
|
|
BC T-Shirt Design Winner
|
|
Join Date: June 19, 2005
Location: Camden, London
Favorite Player: Mashrafe Mortaza
Posts: 7,199
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
That makes no sense. Sadhu bhasha has a rigid form, and hasn't really changed much. In fact, there's an oft-cited usage rule in Bengali that says "Sadhu-Choliter misron dushoniyo", i.e., "Don't mix Sadhu and Cholito in the same prose". There has been no evolution in Sadhu bhasa. For a long time during the 20th century, Sadhu and Cholito existed side by side, with the Sadhu slowly falling out of use in literature. Cholito is less stilted, more fluid and allows more expressions that sound natural and capture emotions better.
|
Languages have to adapt, or they die out. I'm not comparing Shadhu with Cholito, or itself, but its uses in more recent literature. It's rare and not used in its overtly complicated literary form or manner. You can't just compare old Shadhu literature with newspaper articles or letters. Regardless, you must notice a difference.
|
July 2, 2007, 12:01 AM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatebreed
Languages have to adapt, or they die out. I'm not comparing Shadhu with Cholito, or itself, but its uses in more recent literature. It's rare and not used in its overtly complicated literary form or manner. You can't just compare old Shadhu literature with newspaper articles or letters. Regardless, you must notice a difference.
|
Technically, Sadhu bhasa is not a language. It is a made up literary form of Bangla with distinct and rigid verbal inflections and heavily employs sanskritized forms of common Bengali words. It was only used in writing, never spoken (well, apart from the n00b Christian padres who learned Bengali using the Sadhu bhasha and were mocked to death by the villagers they tried to proselytize in the 19th century).
What I am trying to point out is that Sadhu is not being used in recent literature, at all. Sadhu never adapted to anything. Like I said, the mixing of Sadhu and Cholito had been strongly discouraged by the prescriptivist pundits. So there evolved no intermediate Sadhu bhasa in between Sadhu and Cholito, where the style was say, m% Sadhu and n% cholito. It has been pretty black and white. What happened was people gradually started writing more works in cholito and the number of works written in Sadhu dwindled to the point of non-existence, apart from the Ittefaq editorial. And this happened back in the mid 20th century.
The only significant places where Sadhu survived in the late 20th century were Bangladesh government gazettes and legal proceedings. And the Ittefaq in the mainstream media.
|
July 2, 2007, 06:12 AM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: January 31, 2006
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 3,016
|
|
Another significant field in which it has survived ,parodies and sarcasms.
And in Bangla grammar books.
__________________
The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.
|
|