A photo essay

[Arnab]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/issue_j...ftheline1.html

[Nasif]

Thanks Arnab. Its really sad case. I have heard a BBC report few months back on this.

Asbestos and lead hazard are all around.

[Hatebreed]

Sad? That's just depressing, these people don't even have shoes or gloves to wear!

I thought there was something positive coming on our way way when I saw the news about Arsenic reduction.. yet we can't even deal with man-made hazards.

[Arnab]

Well, it's reality in Bangladesh. 2 lakh people's livelihood depend on it. Many of them probably children. The developed world's throw away is like gold for this lot, and they neither know nor care about the lofty ideals of human rights bandied about in air-conditioned "world conferences" that you see on BBC or CNN or read about in the newspapers. They are way beneath the threshold.

I guess you can think about it a little that when you're having that croissant/porota with your morning coffee/cha in some Starbucks or in your kitchen.

Because mere thinking about it is all that you can possibly do. Really.

Self-induced amnesia is the sweetest thing.

[Orpheus]

that's it?

that's 200,000 who got jobs. Would you rather prefer, we get expensive machines to filter out all these "scrapes metals" and give the jobs to 2000 highly skilled worker?

It's kinda philosophical. Is it better to have child labor or a child dying of hunger?

Having said that, I think companies should make sure that their workers are not being exploited inhumanely.

I have some pictures that I can share but it maybe a bit too much for BC members to handle.

[mhferdaus]

hmm for those 200,000 shamsuddin betar put natin I mean something is better than nothing, but like someone said they should not be exploited and working condition could be made a little better with not much expense.

[Special 1]

Originally Posted by Orpheus
that's it?

that's 200,000 who got jobs. Would you rather prefer, we get expensive machines to filter out all these "scrapes metals" and give the jobs to 2000 highly skilled worker?

It's kinda philosophical. Is it better to have child labor or a child dying of hunger?

Having said that, I think companies should make sure that their workers are not being exploited inhumanely.

I have some pictures that I can share but it maybe a bit too much for BC members to handle.

Do not forget the hazardous material these ships have in them. Id rather prefer them not having this job than having this job which slowly kills them.

[Hatebreed]

Orpheus that's not the point, the only reason these people are doing this work is because they have to survive and they are cheap labour. Depriving them bare minimum safety to work in these dangerous conditions is inhumane and unacceptable. It's not a lot to ask considering the amount of money these industries make.

[Orpheus]

Obviously you didn't get my point either...

Let's break it down:
What do you mean by "bare minimum safety"? This "minimum" safety may cost more than you think.
For example: Carrying heavy metals by hand: Unsafe
minimum safety solution: 1) Buy vehicles to carry the metals from point A to B
2) Hire drivers to operate the vehicle.
Before we used 10 workers to carry 1 heavy piece of metal, after meeting the safety req, we have only two workers to carry 10 heavy pieces of metals.
Cutting cost: Fire 98 workers.

Now as an industry, I can have a face-saving solution like buying gloves and shoes for everyone or I can really be honest to myself and go for efficient production w/ minimal cost if I must obey with all the "safety features" you are talking about.

Above is a hypothetical situation and I am not defending anyone, you are right that workers are exploited but really let's not lose your appetite for starbucks' coffee. You may do more harm than good.

[Hatebreed]

Protective gloves, masks, shoes and eyeware would be a start. I know people in BD can drive even if they can't do anything else, so paying them isn't as expensive as you make it sound. There has to have some machinary in place to transport/lift heavy and large material, and should be used without forcing people carry them. Whereas people can load/unload and carry smaller, lighter scrap metal that can be too costly and time-consuming using machinary. You don't have to be a rocket scientist figure out a cost-effective, yet efficient and safe use of labour force.

[billah]

Its awe-inspiring. People with nothing much but a drive, some creative instinct and gusto can create such an industry. Shows that we are industrious, relentless and brave. If some of us feel sorry for the people that are working extremely hard to make their daily living, please, take a stock of your own work ethics. And spare us the crocodile tears. If you think that these working conditions need to be improved, get up and do something about it.

I dare you.

Write a letter. Don't condemn these people to death by recommending that this industry needs to be shut down. God knows, we really need the steel they produce for building our nation. But give the authorities some constructive advise on how to make it safer.

Open up your fat pocketbooks. Go to home depot, buy whatever the heck you can. Pool together with other whiny saps like yourself to send a box full of gloves and helmets to them for distribution. Call yourselves "Gloves for love" or something. If some of you can do it, I offer to put up the cost to ship it for you.

Brainiacs among you, why not take 3 week vacations to Bangladesh together. Go to Potenga, open a safety training seminar for these folks. Teach them a thing or two on how to use plasma cutters safely, or how to use a gas mask.

Sitting in front of your computers, and crying foul does not do anything for them. One day our dumb politicians will listen to you and shut down this industry. That will be sad.

In the least, admire these warriors, respect them. They deserve nothing less.

[mhferdaus]

Originally Posted by billah
Its awe-inspiring. People with nothing much but a drive, some creative instinct and gusto can create such an industry. Shows that we are industrious, relentless and brave. If some of us feel sorry for the people that are working extremely hard to make their daily living, please, take a stock of your own work ethics. And spare the crocodile tears. If you think that these working conditions need to be improved, get up off your a s s and do something about it.

I dare you.

Write a letter. Don't condemn these people to death by recommending that this industry needs to be shut down. God knows, we really need the steel they produce for building our nation. But give the authorities some constructive advise on how to make it safer.

Open up your fat pocketbooks. Go to home depot, buy whatever the heck you can. Pool together with other whiny saps like yourself to send a box full of gloves and helmets to them for distribution. Call yourselves "Gloves for love" or something. If some of you can do it, I offer to put up the cost to ship it for you.

Brainiacs among you, why not take 3 week vacation to Bangladesh together. Go to Potenga, open a safety training seminar for these folks. Teach them a thing or two on how to use plasma cutters safely, or how to use a gas mask.

Sitting in front of your computers, farting in your seats, and crying foul does not do s h i t for them. One day our dumb politicians will listen to you and shut down this industry. That will be sad.

In the least, admire these warriors, respect them. They deserve nothing less.

Billah Bhai, you are a genious ...

[akabir77]

I saw the 60 min coverage on this issue and i see this in this way. If these guys didn't had this job how better they would have lived there life? I bet not much better. still they would have rest rooms, drs, beds etc etc. on top of them 90% of them would become theif, mastans and kill other people. and their future generations would follow them. but now at least there sons, daughter have a chance. so don't just follow these coverages blindly. if this shiping thing was not in bd and india would made all the gernalist aware of it no one would put a foot step in bangaldesh to see how these people r living...
But its of course would have been better if they had a little better life as the owners r making billions. but i think nai mama r cheye kana mama bhalo

[Spitfire_x86]

Originally Posted by billah
Open up your fat pocketbooks. Go to home depot, buy whatever the heck you can. Pool together with other whiny saps like yourself to send a box full of gloves and helmets to them for distribution. Call yourselves "Gloves for love" or something. If some of you can do it, I offer to put up the cost to ship it for you.

Oh why, why your লুটেরা friends are entitled to enjoy the profit but not responsible to do anything to ensure the safety for their workers?

Sitting in front of your computers, farting in your seats, and crying foul does not do s h i t for them. One day our dumb politicians will listen to you and shut down this industry. That will be sad.

In the least, admire these warriors, respect them. They deserve nothing less.

This is pot calling kettle black. I suppose you can post here without sitting in front of computer and spending time.

These workers don't benefit from the sympathy of words, and they certainly don't give a damn about your admiration either. Your corrupt system needs those steel to build the corrupt nation of your dream. In the end it's just a day job for them.

[billah]

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
Oh why, why your লুটেরা friends are entitled to enjoy the profit but not responsible to do anything to ensure the safety for their workers?

May be, YOUR friends are লুটেরা। I don't have any লুটেরা friends. My friends are really high class professionals and dedicated patriots.

Originally Posted by spitfire_x86
This is pot calling kettle black. I suppose you can post here without sitting in front of computer and spending time.

This is purely YOUR assumption, since you don't have the faintest clue as to who I am, or, what I do. This, I know for a fact. If you are the kettle, then I must be a stainless steel, shiney excalibur, and naturally, you would be a lot darker than me haha..

Originally Posted by spitfire_x86
These workers don't benefit from the sympathy of words, and they certainly don't give a damn about your admiration either. Your corrupt system needs those steel to build the corrupt nation of your dream. In the end it's just a day job for them.

What if it is just YOUR corrupt self ? Is that why you think we are building a corrupt nation?. Like I said before, যে নিজে চোর সে অন্য সবাইকে চোরই মনে করে .it's the corrupt mindframe thing.

Your time will be much better spent by picking on guys with your brain size. Why not stick to what you do best: create a second user name, and stage false discussions on a forum with your "buddy". I am really out of your league. Try after growing up for 10, oh 15 more years.

[Spitfire_x86]

Originally Posted by billah
May be, YOUR friends are লুটেরা। I don't have any লুটেরা friends. My friends are really high class professionals and dedicated patriots.

Here "your friends" mean the people for those you have the highest level of sympathy. The people who you think are above everything and entitled to think only about their profit without caring about the people who bring them profit.

I don't know who are your friends in real life, and it doesn't matter here. The difference is, you sympathize with the investors who don't care for their employees and I don't.

This is purely YOUR assumption, since you don't have the faintest clue as to who I am, or, what I do. This, I know for a fact. If you are the kettle, then I must be a stainless steel, shiney excalibur, and naturally, you would be a lot darker than me haha..
My asssumption? Why don't you patent your invention of "posting in messageboard without using computer and time"? The point is, if you're also doing the same thing as everyone else, don't use that against others.

What if it is just YOUR corrupt self ? Is that why you think we are building a corrupt nation?. Like I said before, যে নিজে চোর সে অন্য সবাইকে চোরই মনে করে .it's the corrupt mindframe thing.

I'm very well aware of how corrupt I am. You know very well why I think we're building a corrupt nation. It's useless to say the things that you already know.

Your time will be much better spent by picking on guys with your brain size. Why not stick to what you do best: create a second user name, and stage false discussions on a forum with your "buddy". I am really out of your league. Try after growing up for 10, oh 15 more years.

Hopefully I will never "grow up" in your sense. It makes me glad that the world isn't only full of "grown up" people like you.

[Arnab]

Billah and Spitty, resist the temptation. And argue all you want, but don't call names. It's useless.

And Billah, stop using cusswords. Not very professional, you must admit. Ekhane eto uttejona khoroch kore felle world cup-er jonno kichhu baki thakbe na.

[billah]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Billah and Spitty, resist the temptation. And argue all you want, but don't call names. It's useless.

And Billah, stop using cusswords. Not very professional, you must admit. Ekhane eto uttejona khoroch kore felle world cup-er jonno kichhu baki thakbe na.

Arnab: Sorry for the cusswords, they are not doing much good anyways. I'll just edit them out of my previous post.

They were not intended for Spitty, I'm sure he knows that. However, if you look at Spitty's posts in response to mine, in the last few weeks, you will see a pattern of personal attack and abuse by Spitty towards me. He's acting like a victim and coming at me. It seems it is my fault that the BAL party won't come to power again in Bangladesh.

Here's the smiley.

[Spitfire_x86]

Originally Posted by billah
It seems it is my fault that the BAL party won't come to power again in Bangladesh.

I wonder how the name of a party comes into discussion when it's about exploiting cheap labor.

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86


I wonder how the name of a party comes into discussion when it's about exploiting cheap labor.

It's off topic too...but the way you, Arnab, and Billah are dealing with this, I wish our politicians had the same attitude.

About the photo essay:
I find it extremely touching, specially due to the selective photos used for putting the words out...it's brilliant.
I do agree that this is where the question comes: satisfy your hunger OR stay alive in the long run? Philosophical, and both views have some good arguments. But here's what I think. This will NEVER change unless the government steps in. For 2 lakh people, the government should step in. By stepping in, I don't mean that they should stop this from happening. They can support these people with high boots and gloves.

Last decade, there was this thing going on about "food for education". I wonder what's going on with that. If they have similar good ideas for eradicating child labour, this is the first place I would suggest that they should apply.

And finally, and I hope nobody gets offended by it. But really, most of us (if not all) have depended on child labour. The people we so easily call servants are mostly children or women...and servants have the connotation of slavery (ultimately). And if we don't like this idea of children being out in the scrap-yard scavenging for extra metals, we shouldn't have those kids do our ghorer kaaj with bare hands...or not even make them work at home. Yea yea, I know...a lot of us support them for going to school. But we don't really know how many of memshahebs let the children go to schools anyway.

Anyway...it's sad. If anyone's got some brilliant idea, then we should discuss it here. If we from the BC community can do something, we probably should start acting that way.

[billah]

Once again, I wanna remind the interested, Bangaldesh government, (regardless of who is in power) has no power, no money, no enforcement and no interest. NGOs have a much greater positive impact in changing the lives of the people. But, it's the kind of peoples depicted in the photo essay, and the business owners behind of this type of creative enterprises that move us forward today.

Policy, yes, in this aspect, the government can help. Grameen bank's Dr. Yunus, has acknowledged the part our government's manifested public policies played in the success of his organization. He asked other nations to support micro credit in the same manner. Contrary to popular belief, we still have a majority of law abiding citizen. Contrary to popular perception, our crime rates are still dwarfs compared to many "civilized" countries like the USA or UK. So, even without efforts in enforcements, our government can positively impact the lives of poor workers and people just by having sound policies in place.

What irked me here is that so easily we fall for the propaganda campaign by special interest groups. How quickly we lose focus on the real issues and start barking up the wrong tree. Our goal in empathizing with these workers should be that we want this industry thrive, become stronger, and be the best in the world. We also want worker safety, better work condition and better pay for them. These goals are complimentary to each other, not contradictory.

If we think, even for a moment, that the government will step in and fix it, we would be fooling ourselves. That will be the end of this industry. We can only play with the cards that's been dealt us. We don't have the government help, white knight, fix-it-all trump card. However, we do have a whole bunch of other good cards that we CAN play. Sitting at the side of the road and crying foul while waiting for "our government to do something" would never solve these issues, period.

[Special 1]

Originally Posted by billah
Once again, I wanna remind the interested, Bangaldesh government, (regardless of who is in power) has no power, no money, no enforcement and no interest. NGOs have a much greater positive impact in changing the lives of the people. But, it's the kind of peoples depicted in the photo essay, and the business owners behind of this type of creative enterprises that move us forward today.

Policy, yes, in this aspect, the government can help. Grameen bank's Dr. Yunus, has acknowledged the part our government's manifested public policies played in the success of his organization. He asked other nations to support micro credit in the same manner. Contrary to popular belief, we still have a majority of law abiding citizen. Contrary to popular perception, our crime rates are still dwarfs compared to many "civilized" countries like the USA or UK. So, even without efforts in enforcements, our government can positively impact the lives of poor workers and people just by having sound policies in place.

What irked me here is that so easily we fall for the propaganda campaign by special interest groups. How quickly we lose focus on the real issues and start barking up the wrong tree. Our goal in empathizing with these workers should be that we want this industry thrive, become stronger, and be the best in the world. We also want worker safety, better work condition and better pay for them. These goals are complimentary to each other, not contradictory.

If we think, even for a moment, that the government will step in and fix it, we would be fooling ourselves. That will be the end of this industry. We can only play with the cards that's been dealt us. We don't have the government help, white knight, fix-it-all trump card. However, we do have a whole bunch of other good cards that we CAN play. Sitting at the side of the road and crying foul while waiting for "our government to do something" would never solve these issues, period.

I do not agree with our crime rates statement you made relative to other western countries. It could be the case that a lot of the crimes in Bd are not reported. But that is not the main point.

The main point is what you said. We should not wait for the government to step in, coz that has not happened in the past. Which leads to this other question? What is govenrment doing in Bangladesh? Surely they are not investing in th right areas especially if most of the spending is done in the last 3 months of the fiscal year.

[Hatebreed]

Originally Posted by billah
So, even without efforts in enforcements, our government can positively impact the lives of poor workers and people just by having sound policies in place.

Billah, you continue to astound me with your denial of what's clearly wrong in our country. For you it's probably not difficult because you are not one of them, so the least you can do is imagine yourself in their shoes, figuratively speaking, because they don't have any.

A government's job is not just to create laws & policies but to also enforce them for the betterment of both its people and the industries. By having a "sound" policy about health & safety, work ethics, minimum wage or whatever but not enforcing them does NOT make the lives of poor workers better! No sir, no, you must be living in fantasy land.

Originally Posted by billah
What irked me here is that so easily we fall for the propaganda campaign by special interest groups. How quickly we lose focus on the real issues and start barking up the wrong tree. Our goal in empathizing with these workers should be that we want this industry thrive, become stronger, and be the best in the world. We also want worker safety, better work condition and better pay for them. These goals are complimentary to each other, not contradictory.

Nobody is barking up the wrong tree, Bangladesh is a dense forest of problems and each and one of them are very real and only growing worse because we don't care. These photos have only portrayed a piece of reality, which we can all perceive in different ways. For some of us, it's difficult accept these poor, unfortunate people to work in such hazardous conditions because according to whatever health & safety law there is in Bangladesh, it is clearly not being applied. Why should only the citizens abide by law and not the industry?

Nobody is saying replace these people with machines, because that would only make their lives harder, but to see and quietly accept the harshness of their lives, just so that you can boast about how well the "industry" is thriving is not normal.

Originally Posted by billah
If we think, even for a moment, that the government will step in and fix it, we would be fooling ourselves. That will be the end of this industry. We can only play with the cards that's been dealt us. We don't have the government help, white knight, fix-it-all trump card. However, we do have a whole bunch of other good cards that we CAN play. Sitting at the side of the road and crying foul while waiting for "our government to do something" would never solve these issues, period.

You are fooling yourself, I don't see the reasoning behind how it is going to "end" the industry. We have a very hard-working labour force, both in our country and outside, they contribute extensively to out economy and they do it for measly income. So by ensuring them the safety to do dangerous work like does not make them any lesser of workers nor destroy the industry, whether it's cutting steel or producing your pair of jeans.

This is nothing personal against you, but you are obviously being one-sided towards the "industry" and the "creative enterprises", while the poor people who make this possible suffer greatly in the process. The difference is they do it to live, and you live to take pride in it.

[billah]

Originally Posted by Hatebreed
Billah, you continue to astound me with your denial of what's clearly wrong in our country. For you it's probably not difficult because you are not one of them, so the least you can do is imagine yourself in their shoes, figuratively speaking, because they don't have any.

HB, if you had read my message a little carefully, you would have noticed, I said that our government is inept, and we must not count on government help for enforcement of policies. So, denial is out of question. If you, HB, are thinking that you will change this, then, you are denying reality. I challenge you to change this problem with our government, I dare you, and I give you 10 years.

Also, unlike you, I know what it feels like when Kala Jahangir's people show up at my manufacturing facility, shoots at my foreman, closes down my factory, asks for extortion. I am, my friend, living in their shoes.

Originally Posted by hatebreed
A government's job is not just to create laws & policies but to also enforce them for the betterment of both its people and the industries. By having a "sound" policy about health & safety, work ethics, minimum wage or whatever but not enforcing them does NOT make the lives of poor workers better! No sir, no, you must be living in fantasy land.

Even without your pointless reminder here, we already know that it is the government's job to enforce good policies. I said clearly, our governments, regardless of parties, are not interested or capable of enforcement. If I listen to your acumenical advise, I'll be sitting in front of bongobhobon with my demands for eternity. What I said, again, completely missed by you, is, we have to accepts the facts as they are first: HB, Government help for you, will not come. So, get up, do it on your own.

Now, I can understand, for many of us, coming from a culture, where sitting down and crying for government is a favorite pastime, it will not change reality for you. You sound like you come from a long chain of "amla" family. Tell me, are there a lot of 9-to-5 er among your peers? Sounds like there are.

Originally Posted by hatebreed
Nobody is barking up the wrong tree, Bangladesh is a dense forest of problems and each and one of them are very real and only growing worse because we don't care. These photos have only portrayed a piece of reality, which we can all perceive in different ways. For some of us, it's difficult accept these poor, unfortunate people to work in such hazardous conditions because according to whatever health & safety law there is in Bangladesh, it is clearly not being applied. Why should only the citizens abide by law and not the industry?

Three types of people in Bangladesh have the harshest criticism of our country. They are the ones that try to tell the others "Bangladesh is a dense forest of problems...things are getting worse...sky is falling... chicken little ....etc". They are: 1. The BAL party. 2. Some NGOs that are set up to serve foreign interest. 3. The amla, the retired amla, his son, who is trying to find security in his job. Obviously, you do not keep up with the important statistics of your country, thus out of touch with reality. Or, are you one of those die-hard BAL party supporters?

Originally Posted by hatebreed
Nobody is saying replace these people with machines, because that would only make their lives harder, but to see and quietly accept the harshness of their lives, just so that you can boast about how well the "industry" is thriving is not normal.

??? Obvious, you did not read my post carefully.

Originally Posted by hatebreed
You are fooling yourself, I don't see the reasoning behind how it is going to "end" the industry. We have a very hard-working labour force, both in our country and outside, they contribute extensively to out economy and they do it for measly income. So by ensuring them the safety to do dangerous work like does not make them any lesser of workers nor destroy the industry, whether it's cutting steel or producing your pair of jeans.

Once again, HB, it's obvious, that you are completely out of touch with our situation in Bangladesh. It is also obvious, that you read propaganda from BBC, and have filled up your skull with their mushy nonsense. It is generally and strongly belived in Bangladesh, are you ready? here it comes, that if the government meddles in to an industry, that's just it ! They will successfully kill it off. Voila !! get it? Now, take a few baby steps in thinking, and put the other 2 pieces of the puzzle together, not too difficult. Once again, if you go back and this time, really read my post, you will find that I said, our government is not very concerned with workers safety, better pay, benefits etc. etc. News flash:BGMEA has done more in this respect, by just enforcing garment owners on this issue than the whole of Bangladesh government. They even have a pre-screening checklist and inspections.(By the way, this is not just a comment, if you know any garment owners, exporters, ask them. I know many of them personally.)

Originally Posted by hatebreed
This is nothing personal against you, but you are obviously being one-sided towards the "industry" and the "creative enterprises", while the poor people who make this possible, suffer greatly in the process. The difference is they do it to live, and you live to take pride in it.

As you know by now, your comments about me here were just incorrect assumptions. For myself, I look for every opportunity to take pride in every achivement by Bangladesh, or by a Bangladeshi. I'm sure most of us do. I do belive that the sooner we become "pro-industry" and "pro-creative enterprises", the sooner we will be able to positively impact the lives of the poor. First step, accept reality: Khaleda or Hachina won't come to solve our problem. They have other priorities.

[Hatebreed]

Originally Posted by billah
HB, if you had read my message a little carefully, you would have noticed, I said that our government is inept, and we must not count on government help for enforcement of policies. So, denial is out of question. If you, HB, are thinking that you will change this, then, you are denying reality. I challenge you to change this problem with our government, I dare you, and I give you 10 years.

Also, unlike you, I know what it feels like when Kala Jahangir's people show up at my manufacturing facility, shoots at my foreman, closes down my factory, asks for extortion. I am, my friend, living in their shoes.

I did your post correctly, and you did not elaborate on anything except go on ranting about how any move by the gov't to ensure "safety" laws is going to destroy an industry. Sure everybody knows that our gov't or any party for that matter is not effective, but to accept that fact and sit on our arses isn't going to help anyone's cause. That's one of the big reasons why we are not progressive, because we always make the gov’t a scapegoat when they don’t do things right, or if we are like you, we say it’s not worth it!

We are talking about safety of workers, poor people who have no choice but to accept the dangerous conditions they have to work in for survival and how the industrialists are exploiting this to their advantage. I expect the gov't to enforce "safety" regulations, not to reinvent industrialism or close down factories. You are clearly taking this too far based on your "personal experience". Some criminals came into your factory, shot your employee and ask for extortion money - I do feel very sorry for you and I hope you will get justice.

So what? How does this justify the obvious injustice being done to 200,000 or more people across the country? Don't dare me, let's not even make this an issue about me. If you think you are even slightly concerned or aware of their problems, go on set an example for other industries. I challenge you and give you 20 years to improve, or even convince these industries in our country to create better work conditions without interference of the gov't.

You don't care do you? May be you are one of factory owners who doesn’t think it’s economically viable to establish health & safety; no matter how immoral it is.

Originally Posted by billah
Even without your pointless reminder here, we already know that it is the government's job to enforce good policies. I said clearly, our governments, regardless of parties, are not interested or capable of enforcement. If I listen to your acumenical advise, I'll be sitting in front of bongobhobon with my demands for eternity. What I said, again, completely missed by you, is, we have to accepts the facts as they are first: HB, Government help for you, will not come. So, get up, do it on your own.

Let me guess, you are doing a grand job by accepting, in fact encouraging the fact if the gov’t doesn’t make a move, it is perfectly alright for industries to exploit cheap labour in every cruel way possible?

Originally Posted by billah
Now, I can understand, for many of us, coming from a culture, where sitting down and crying for government is a favorite pastime, it will not change reality for you. You sound like you come from a long chain of "amla" family. Tell me, are there a lot of 9-to-5 er among your peers? Sounds like there are.

Sorry I’m not very competent in your use of vocabulary, but what the heck is an “amla” family?

Originally Posted by billah
Three types of people in Bangladesh have the harshest criticism of our country. They are the ones that try to tell the others "Bangladesh is a dense forest of problems...things are getting worse...sky is falling... chicken little ....etc". They are: 1. The BAL party. 2. Some NGOs that are set up to serve foreign interest. 3. The amla, the retired amla, his son, who is trying to find security in his job. Obviously, you do not keep up with the important statistics of your country, thus out of touch with reality. Or, are you one of those die-hard BAL party supporters?

Criticise the message, not the messenger. You are a judgemental person, what has this any of this debate got to do with me? Why do I get the feeling you are taking out your frustration and clumsiness out on me just because I am telling you the truth? I have not made any personal remarks about you or your family, yet you categorising me into one of your ‘not credible’ groups of people, which as far I AM concerned I don’t belong to.

Originally Posted by billah
Once again, HB, it's obvious, that you are completely out of touch with our situation in Bangladesh. It is also obvious, that you read propaganda from BBC, and have filled up your skull with their mushy nonsense. It is generally and strongly belived in Bangladesh, are you ready? here it comes, that if the government meddles in to an industry, that's just it ! They will successfully kill it off. Voila !! get it? Now, take a few baby steps in thinking, and put the other 2 pieces of the puzzle together, not too difficult. Once again, if you go back and this time, really read my post, you will find that I said, our government is not very concerned with workers safety, better pay, benefits etc. etc. News flash:BGMEA has done more in this respect, by just enforcing garment owners on this issue than the whole of Bangladesh government. They even have a pre-screening checklist and inspections.(By the way, this is not just a comment, if you know any garment owners, exporters, ask them. I know many of them personally.)

You are losing it, you have not said anything constructive about how we would solve this work safety problem, let’s say without the gov't. Everything you’ve said so far is a load of bullshit and served no purpose to this debate, except this one line: “our government is not very concerned with workers safety, better pay, benefits etc.”

Pretty obvious, but that’s what I wanted to hear. Do you think it is acceptable for a gov’t to not be concerned about these issues, or do you suppose there isn’t an issue? If gov't doesn't do their job, and I'm quite sure by now you simply don't want them to, is it still okay for industries to carry on like this? I hope you are reading carefully and not picking your brains. So far you have only proved, that 1. gov’t = incompetent, 2. they don’t care, 3. Cannot compute! ERROR! SYSTEM FAILURE!

So here is the question of the day: What the hell do we do about it?

Originally Posted by billah
As you know by now, your comments about me here were just incorrect assumptions. For myself, I look for every opportunity to take pride in every achivement by Bangladesh, or by a Bangladeshi. I'm sure most of us do. I do belive that the sooner we become "pro-industry" and "pro-creative enterprises", the sooner we will be able to positively impact the lives of the poor. First step, accept reality: Khaleda or Hachina won't come to solve our problem. They have other priorities.

I am not against you for feeling proud about any success in Bangladesh, but it isn’t always appropriate. I never said don’t be pro-industry/pro-creative, blah blah blah.. great, who doesn’t? I am talking “work safety” for people who make industrialism in our country a success. You just went out of your way.

Don’t hold a grudge on me, hold it against the corrupt gov’t and industries who take unfair advantage of the poor people in our country, because in both cases these people ARE the source of their ascendancy.