Taskin and Mashrafee (and Shahadat too)

[al Furqaan]

Taskin and Mash have much in common, and Taskin has stated on numerous occasions that Mash is his hero. The two will most likely share the new ball in the forseeble future. This thread is to compare and contrast them.

Granted the earliest I saw Mash was the December 2004 series vs India by which time injuries had already taken their toll. But I'll never forget his MoM performance in the 2007 WC where he was nearly unplayable against India, bowling between 85-89 mph. I had never seen a deshi pacer bowl that quick before.

IMO, we've only produced 3 genuine pace prospects so far: Mash, Shahadat, and Taskin. Taskin seems to embody the best attributes of both: Mash's intelligence and accuracy with Shahadat's aggression and bite. He also generates the bounce Shahadat could not despite being slightly shorter. In short, Taskin seems to be the complete package.

[Gowza]

What's the criteria for a genuine pace prospect? I'd say rubel had potential as did shahadat but shahadat never became a world class pacer for any extended period of time, rubel has done ok in ODIs but hasn't done anything in tests but his one-day exploits put him up there as one of BDs most successful pacers.

Mash and taskin seem different, they both seem to have that special something that puts them in the world class category though we still have to wait and see on taskin.

[Zeeshan]

Rajib is a joke!

Our fearsome quartet comprises of Masrafe, Taskin, Al-Amin and Rubel. Nuff said.

Shafiul was good. Nazmul was tidy in his line and length. Dolar and Rasel are now Disco Djs.

[Gowza]

al amin is a wait and see, rubel is world class in ODIs only so far and even still he's only just bordering on world class but it's better than our others. nazmul kind of is and kind of isn't, he averages under 32 in ODIs but also only has a 4fer to show for it and no 5fers and it's important for bowlers to be able to have those occasions at times so i think that's part of the criteria for being world class i.e. being able to get 4fers and 5fers. nazmul has only played 2 tests so no point of even bringing his test career into it.

shafiul is tough as well, not good in tests , but been ok sometimes in ODIs as his average of 36 isn't atrocious though it's still not very good but he's also got 4 4fers so he does have that wicket taking ability.

BD has never had a world class test paceman, and mash is the only one to solidify that title in ODIs imo. guys like rubel, al amin, nazmul, shafiul are still maybes as if they are in the category they're right on the border and could easily fall the wrong side of it (rubel for example, he's done well in ODIs so far but i'm still not convinced he can keep it up for his entire career yet).

shahadat is BD's bowling version of ashraful and the BD version of ishant sharma (though ishant has been threatening to come good for a more prolonged period lately).

[ankur86]

Rubel, Robiul and Al-Amin are good pacers. Taskin and Mashrafe have similarities. Shahadat is not worth mentioning in this discussion. He is a 125k brainless bowler.

[al-Sagar]

but once upon a time shahadat troubled batsman .... but never did justice to his potential ... rubel was not nurtured properly .... ....

lets hope Taskin is guided properly ...

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by al-Sagar
but once upon a time shahadat troubled batsman .... but never did justice to his potential ... rubel was not nurtured properly .... ....

lets hope Taskin is guided properly ...

[mufi_02]

I still feel its too early to evaluate Taskin. I always find it difficult to judge a bowler. You can evaluate any batsmen after few games by looking at technique and temperament. But any bowler can have a magnificent spell and then slowly fade away. Ishant Sharma troubled Ponting and others in Aus, Shahdat terrorizing South Africans, Rubel demolished the Kiwis and even Stuart Binny had a dream figure against us.

I think AlAmin is an under appreciated talent. He is much better than Rajib/Shafiul.

[al Furqaan]

Yes Al Amin is one of my favorites. But I don't consider him a 'genuine pace' prospect because he doesn't have the aggression. Mash was a genuine talent but due to his injuries he has long lacked the aggression and pace but I still considered him as an original genuine talent. Rubel doesn't qualify because though he has the pace, he was never a threat in Test cricket. No one else even comes close though some have been decent bowlers (Nazmul and Shafiul, Rasel).

[Zeeshan]

dekhi k bolte pare prithibir shera bolar k??

spin balling er jononi k k?

prithibir shobcheye govirtomo stadium konti? tahar dourgho o prosthyo ki?

sochin tendulkar er gor averej koto?

[cricman]

Shahadat was a fabulous talent, not his fault the System couldn't help him.

Not Many Players could make South Africa, India and Sri Lanka crumble on these graveyard Pitches.

When he had pace his short ball was great, would have liked to see that Version of him bowl to all these happy front foot batsmen. I remember him pelting Pointing in the Helmet at the end of the Fatullah Test

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by cricman
Shahadat was a fabulous talent, not his fault the System couldn't help him.

Not Many Players could make South Africa, India and Sri Lanka crumble on these graveyard Pitches.

When he had pace his short ball was great, would have liked to see that Version of him bowl to all these happy front foot batsmen. I remember him pelting Pointing in the Helmet at the end of the Fatullah Test

Shahadat was a tremendous talent. Even bigger talent than Mash because he was a genuine wicket taker. In those days it wasn't everyday we had a 6'3" seamer who acted like he was 6'3". His first few years were very promising, expensive, but his strike rate was in the low 50s. More so than the system, his laziness failed him. His attitude became disgusting. He even stayed almost completely injury free.

Taskin is an even bigger talent. Shahadat had poor mechanics and couldn't generate consistent bounce...Taskin gets bounce even on our pitches as if he was 2-3 inches taller than he is. Throw in pace, seam movement, and accuracy, and you have upgraded version of Shahadat. Just hope he stays healthy for the next 15-16 years. He has the hunger Shahadat never had.

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Shahadat was a tremendous talent. Even bigger talent than Mash because he was a genuine wicket taker. In those days it wasn't everyday we had a 6'3" seamer who acted like he was 6'3". His first few years were very promising, expensive, but his strike rate was in the low 50s. More so than the system, his laziness failed him. His attitude became disgusting. He even stayed almost completely injury free.

Taskin is an even bigger talent. Shahadat had poor mechanics and couldn't generate consistent bounce...Taskin gets bounce even on our pitches as if he was 2-3 inches taller than he is. Throw in pace, seam movement, and accuracy, and you have upgraded version of Shahadat. Just hope he stays healthy for the next 15-16 years. He has the hunger Shahadat never had.

then we are doomed..

Rajib was a mediocre pacer at best. I never saw anything special in him. Yes he had some good spells here and there but overall he was just cr*p. All international pacers had some sort of magic spells. Debashish Mohanty included.

[RazabQ]

I still would have put Mahbubul Alam Robin in that list. His performance in South Africa was awesome. First genuine swing bowler I saw. And let's not dismiss Robiul. In helpful condition he is definitely a threat. New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe and England would be great places for him to tour.

[Gowza]

i did see promise in robin and robiul has been ok. shahadat did have the tools to be world class but when i say world class i mean a pacer who can average about 32 or less in tests and ODIs.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by RazabQ
I still would have put Mahbubul Alam Robin in that list. His performance in South Africa was awesome. First genuine swing bowler I saw. And let's not dismiss Robiul. In helpful condition he is definitely a threat. New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe and England would be great places for him to tour.

Fast bowlers need attitude. Otherwise Srinath should qualify. Robin was tall, but did he have any pace? Ability to crank it to 140 is a minimum requirement. Even Shafiul recorded 90 mph in 2010 England tour, but he ain't no fast bowler (I was decent fan of his and still am). Even I left RBX out of the list.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
then we are doomed..

Rajib was a mediocre pacer at best. I never saw anything special in him. Yes he had some good spells here and there but overall he was just cr*p. All international pacers had some sort of magic spells. Debashish Mohanty included.

He ended up infraordinary, but he started off like a rocket. Strike rate of 50 is no small matter.

[Gowza]

there needs to be constant work with the pacers, there are tools within BD's pace bowlers but like india they're finding it very tough to develop and utilise those tools. robin probably could have ended up a decent swing bowler bowling high 120s to mid 130s, dolar probably as well, robiul obviously can be decent, shafiul could be, rubel could be, shahadat could have been, al amin could be, even abul has his potential. there is enough there to produce a couple of decent pacers it will just take a lot of work though.

look at SL, they don't have the best pace talent and eranga and lakmal weren't very good when they started playing international cricket but look at how they've managed to develop them, that prasad fellow who recently played in england, his test record wasn't very good but he looked quite a decent pacer in england. no doubt vaas has had a lot to the recent development of the SL pacers but that's the thing SL have vaas, india have mcgrath who does BD have? at least SL and india are working on it, don't think BD is...BD is just hoping.

[al Furqaan]

The SL pacers have less talent than Abul (though I liked Lakmal from as early as 2010), but Vaas will be able to maximize their potential. I believe Streak can do the same for us, we just have to keep him for a good 4 years. We might then be able to poach Vaas if need be. But based on his work in ZIM, I see no reason to let Streak go. I think the BCB made 2 very good appointments in Coach Hammer and Streak. Just need a spinners coach and a fielding coach.

[Gowza]

yeah streak was a good appointment imo but it's less about streak and more about BCB's willingness to listen to and implement his idea's. BD have had good coaches in the past (in fact often) but the BCB doesn't even utilise the coaches it hires which is why the players don't develop as they should (player attitude as well but BCB being the head body should lead the way with attitude and they don't).

but yeah hopefully things are different this time and streak is allowed to do his work properly.

[cricman]

Don't get caught up on the Speed Guns. You can hurry a batsmen off deception/delivery

What's most important is the Speed/Trajectory/Movement off the ball after it hits the deck. If you bowl in the right spots (full, short etc.) You will get constant results.

The Problem with our stock is they don't think, or whatever they're thinking is garbage. How many times have we seen all our bowlers squander positions of advantage when 1 batsmen decides to change it up.

I don't think I ever was more ticked off than the Pakistan game in Asia Cup

[al Furqaan]

None of our bowlers have express pace to just beat the bat. Taskin is striving for the 150 k mark and only time will if he gets there. I believe he can but its just a belief. But even pace in the mid to high 130s is enough if swing/seam and accuracy are present. But pure pace is a spectacle in itself.

[Gowza]

mcgrath bowled a lot in the 130s, stuart clark bowled high 120s mostly and vaas was around about the same pace. what it comes down to is skill and that's what the BD fast bowlers need to realise, if they've got to the international level it's likely they have the pace to succeed at the level and what they need to work on is skill.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Fast bowlers need attitude. Otherwise Srinath should qualify. Robin was tall, but did he have any pace? Ability to crank it to 140 is a minimum requirement. Even Shafiul recorded 90 mph in 2010 England tour, but he ain't no fast bowler (I was decent fan of his and still am). Even I left RBX out of the list.

What good is attitude if it doesn't procure wickets? It's not as if grunting at 800 decibels is suddenly and magically gonna make one a great bowler. Reason players like Jeff Thompson, Dennis Lillee, Brett Lee and Dale Steyn are up there is not because of 'staring down opponent from a height of 6'7"' but because they had immaculate line and length taking wickets consistently.

Judging by the stats, the Rajib is cannot even make the cut to top 200 or 500. Okay I exaggerate a little but point being plenty of fast bowlers like Finn, McGrath, Oram don't have the extraneous "attitude" to aid them.

That's just a glossing. Attitude is good for talking the talk, but it stops the moment one cannot back it up by walking the walk.....which the Rajib is failed again and again.

Let me make it straight: not that he troubled many batsman at their time, but it is VERY REASON of losing us match, games and series that this guy is a "kolonko" along with his Bollywood dreams.

I remember how Mashrafe would economize while at the other end Shahadat would constantly leak runs to Butt and co. in Pakistan series which we lost there.

When someone can singlehandedly lose us a match by shitty deliveries, that is enough to drop him for good. And no amount of "gong fu" or attitude will help the cause.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
... point being plenty of fast bowlers like Finn, McGrath, Oram don't have the extraneous "attitude" to aid them....

99% fast bowlers have/had attitude including the three mentioned. Without it, they will be dominated by Tamim-Zunaid.