No Redemption for the Top Order

[Raynman]

Unless its a match winning effort, no score by the top order (Tamim, Imrul, Nafees, Raqibul) in the 2nd innings can absolve them of their first innings performance.

The last thing that should happen is a half century or century in a losing cause be translated as an achievement and a positive heading into the Pakistan series.

Tamim has been living off of 2010 for well over a year now and probably will walk into the Pak series without worries but unless there is a MEANINGFUL innings there, he should be on the chopping block too.

Imrul shouldn't have been in the Test team to begin with and this should be the end for him.

Nafees needs to make something of chances. As much as I root for this guy, his innings starts out so shaky and even his decent scores look very much luck assisted.

Raqibul was probably the place holder for Riyadh anyways so not much to say about him.

With Riyadh coming back for the PAK series, only 2 of the above should be allowed to retain their positions (probably TI and SN) and somebody new should be given a chance (and no, NOT Ash). Maybe even moving Naeem up the order and allowing for an extra pacer or another option would be to remove the gloves from Mushy and bring in a specialist keeper.

[Rinathq]

Tamim has been doing well in my opinion. Yes he has been unable to convert his starts but everything takes time. He is our best test batsman and I think all he needs is one ton to get this full confidence back

[Raynman]

but is the national team where we give time for everyone to play back into their form or should the national team be for those who are demonstrating being in form?

I say once selected, you get 6 innings to produce 3 meaningful innings (in context of match) to stay on. Otherwise, make room and give someone else a chance instead of hogging up a spot.

As far as Tamim, I did mention that he should be a walk in for the PAK series, but a poor performance there should put his spot in joepardy.

[dash]

good idea and replace these idiots with tendulkar, trot, smith, sanga nd co playing in the ncl.........

[roman]

I dont know who can we replace Imrul with? We dont have a decent replacement. It sucks but its the truth. Imrul has been taking advantage of the good opening pair even though he hardly had any significant contribution. He Cant score, cant take a sitter. Just pathetic.

[cricbook]

I belive WI tour of bd A.....we will found some talent, who can contribute the team proper way. Mominul is my first choice....for no. 3 position. It will give us balance a lot for bd team. Also we found a player like nassir. So, not to worry about...just selection has to be right.

[cricbook]

Originally Posted by roman
I dont know who can we replace Imrul with? We dont have a decent replacement. It sucks but its the truth. Imrul has been taking advantage of the good opening pair even though he hardly had any significant contribution. He Cant score, cant take a sitter. Just pathetic.

Anamul and mominul are coming......so, we have to wait for little bit.

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by roman
I dont know who can we replace Imrul with? We dont have a decent replacement. It sucks but its the truth. Imrul has been taking advantage of the good opening pair even though he hardly had any significant contribution. He Cant score, cant take a sitter. Just pathetic.

For now, it can be Naeem. If he doesnt click than we have to wait. It can be Nafees too. At least he will get some runs on the board

[roman]

Originally Posted by cricbook
Anamul and mominul are coming......so, we have to wait for little bit.

I am anxiously waiting.

[roman]

Originally Posted by rinathq
For now, it can be Naeem. If he doesnt click than we have to wait. It can be Nafees too. At least he will get some runs on the board

That would be turning a middle order batsman into an opener. These kind of gambling might not be gratifying all the time. I really want to replace Imrul with a genuine opener. Unfortunately dont see anyone at this moment.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Raynman
but is the national team where we give time for everyone to play back into their form or should the national team be for those who are demonstrating being in form?

I say once selected, you get 6 innings to produce 3 meaningful innings (in context of match) to stay on. Otherwise, make room and give someone else a chance instead of hogging up a spot.

As far as Tamim, I did mention that he should be a walk in for the PAK series, but a poor performance there should put his spot in joepardy.

by your definition, its not going to work for us. heck even for established sides it won't work. just ask yourself, did Suresh Raina or even Virat Kohli have 3 match-winning innings in their first 6 innings of international cricket?

i beg to differ. we shouldn't settle for mediocrity, but we need to pick players who have the basic ability to succeed at this level. Imrul certainly doesn't qualify, Rock probably doesn't qualify, and Nafees I don't know. But everyone else at least has "it".

No one is more annoyed by Tamim's idiotic antics, his unprofessional smoking habit, his tendency to pack a spare tire, his general laziness, and his lip, but dropping him will only set Bangladesh 5 years back in the matches he's not present in.

[sheshprohor]

Originally Posted by roman
I dont know who can we replace Imrul with? We dont have a decent replacement. It sucks but its the truth. Imrul has been taking advantage of the good opening pair even though he hardly had any significant contribution. He Cant score, cant take a sitter. Just pathetic.

I still believe Naeem and Tamim will be an ideal opening pair for TEST. Naeem proved his tolerance in the ODI and also we can have left-right combination which will make life tough for the opening seemers to keep the line and length.

All first 3 of our bats are LH and seemers take the same actions against them and most of the time they got out in the same fashion. We also try to keep this LH/RH combination through out the batting line up. 4, 5 6 will be re-shuffled based on who got out before.

We also need an pacer alrounder...prob Alauddin Babu (if not Mash)

Just replace imrul with Riyad.

Tamim
Naeem
Nafis
Mushfiq
Shakib
Nasir
M.ullah
E.sunny
(new pacer: medium or fast)
Najmul
Rubel

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
by your definition, its not going to work for us. heck even for established sides it won't work. just ask yourself, did Suresh Raina or even Virat Kohli have 3 match-winning innings in their first 6 innings of international cricket?

i beg to differ. we shouldn't settle for mediocrity, but we need to pick players who have the basic ability to succeed at this level. Imrul certainly doesn't qualify, Rock probably doesn't qualify, and Nafees I don't know. But everyone else at least has "it".

No one is more annoyed by Tamim's idiotic antics, his unprofessional smoking habit, his tendency to pack a spare tire, his general laziness, and his lip, but dropping him will only set Bangladesh 5 years back in the matches he's not present in.

First of, MEANINGFUL does not mean match winning. Its playing an innings that is true to match situtaion. This will have to be the coach and captain's decision, not something that can be TRUE or FALSE based on statistics alone.

Secondly, We won the NZ series 4-0 without Tamim. I'm not saying to drop him for this idiotic antics but drop him if he doesn't perform. Drops are not permanent and should be a kick in the pants for players to perform in the domestic/A/Academy what not to return to the fold. Last thing we need is for Tamim to become another Ashraful story whose place in the team is untouchable because of some individual innings.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Raynman
First of, MEANINGFUL does not mean match winning. Its playing an innings that is true to match situtaion. This will have to be the coach and captain's decision, not something that can be TRUE or FALSE based on statistics alone.

if its something that is so esoteric that we the fans can't discern the difference between meaningful innings and those that aren't, then there is no point in opening a thread calling for x player to be dropped if a,b,c does or does not occur.

we can definitely tell the difference between a good and bad innings, in context to match situation. i agree with you on that point. but we have to identify and stick with a core group of players, until a better core presents itself.

Secondly, We won the NZ series 4-0 without Tamim. I'm not saying to drop him for this idiotic antics but drop him if he doesn't perform. Drops are not permanent and should be a kick in the pants for players to perform in the domestic/A/Academy what not to return to the fold. Last thing we need is for Tamim to become another Ashraful story whose place in the team is untouchable because of some individual innings.

See the problem with faulty logic like that is that its faulty. We won "n number of games" without so and so, therefore this player is rubbish/kufa/homosexual. How can you tell someone's sexual orientation from the number of games the team wins without him?

We have to identify players who have it, and those that don't. We also need to seperate fact from fiction. Fact: Shahadat has taken as many fivers as all our other pacers combined, and then that sum multiplied by two. Fact: Tamim may not have won any games against sides ranked higher than Zimbabwe, but he has raw ability. Fact: management has been unable to resist pressure and manage Ashraful properly. Fact: players with raw talent (Ashraful, Aftab, Tamim, Shakib) can never be fully replaced by hardwork-alone players (Rock, Riyad, Naeem, Rajin, etc). Hardwork players are rarely match winners, exceptions include Dravid and Kallis. You need to have a certain level of talent in order to win matches; willpower alone will never get you the W.

Just to give you an example, and I love the tenacity with which he bats, but Naeem could average 99 like Bradman, but sorry to break it to everyone, he ain't ever gonna win you games against G8 sides. There is no replacement for a game breaking talent like Tamim or Ashraful who averages 20 or 30 even with a hard-worker who averages 50. The only replacement is talent who averages more. With incosistent talent, you will win once every 10 games...with hard work you will win once every never. Thats the difference.

I want to flog Tamim's *** just as bad as you do. But dropping him will only yield embarassing scorelines. Fine his spoiled ***, make the fatass run laps or better yet the stairs at SBNS. But don't drop him unless a better more talented player raises his hands.

[al Furqaan]

Addendum to above post:

When a young, truly talented player pops up, put him to face the fire early. Even the strongest domestic circuits have a ceiling beyond which players cannot develop without international exposure. A team cricket is far to rare to count on. "He's too young" is a poor excuse for a true talent. A real talent will at least float at the highest level, if not sail.

I'm sick and tired of seeing a team full of Imruls embarass us. One or two hardworking players is OK, and perhaps even needed for a fledgling side like ours. But we need some damn skills!

[Nadim]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Addendum to above post:

When a young, truly talented player pops up, put him to face the fire early. Even the strongest domestic circuits have a ceiling beyond which players cannot develop without international exposure. A team cricket is far to rare to count on. "He's too young" is a poor excuse for a true talent. A real talent will at least float at the highest level, if not sail.

I'm sick and tired of seeing a team full of Imruls embarass us. One or two hardworking players is OK, and perhaps even needed for a fledgling side like ours. But we need some damn skills!

Totally agree dada but our selectors doesn't have the brain imho.

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Anyway, N. Faruque can replace Kayes..all he need is a against WI A team. If he does, i'm sure selectord will give him a chance and tbh at the moment, anyone will do over kayes. NF was the highest run scorer last season ncl and called up for A team to tour WI, which starts in a week time.

I really want him to do well so we can get rid of this kayes chagol from the test team

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by nadim 98
Totally agree dada but our selectors doesn't have the brain imho.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anyway, N. Faruque can replace Kayes..all he need is a against WI A team. If he does, i'm sure selectord will give him a chance and tbh at the moment, anyone will do over kayes. NF was the highest run scorer last season ncl and called up for A team to tour WI, which starts in a week time.

I really want him to do well so we can get rid of this kayes chagol from the test team

That's the most indepth post from nadim I have seen so far.