Hajir Chele Paji

[Blah]

My parents are devout religious people. They go to Hajj almost every other year just for shitz and giggles. I used to be very religious too; so much so that I spent more time on Kakrail Mosjid doing tabligh than staying at home or school. I even "founded" a mosque in Mohammadpur, Dhaka. Me and few of my friends raised money (I think its called "chandha"?) going around houses in our neighborhood and businesses for 6 months. We raised enough money to lease a land, construct a basic mosque from "bash and patti" and even had enough money to employ a full time imam. The main reason we wanted to build a mosque because the closest mosque we had was about 30 minutes away by walking distance. The mosque is still there, full-fledged, much bigger and better than its ~14 year old self (So I have been told).

It was fun.

Now that I am going back to BD after so many years and will be there for a very long stay; I need to juggle between my non-belief in any form of religion and god at the same time respecting people who are raging religious people. The first part won't be a problem, other than the internet I don't go around walking up to random people and enforce my view on non-belief. I do enjoy a good discussion about religion and non-belief, but only if asked or provoked and encouraged.

That's all fine and dandy in NY, but I don't think its gonna play so well in BD.

So here is my plan of action to obvious religious conflict:

- Step 1: Avoidance.

Let everyone know in absolute clear terms that you forgot how to do "namaj" (I actually did, mostly) and show very little interest in wanting to re-learn.

- Step 2: Compromise.

Over here, I haven't celebrated Eid, Christmas, Thanksgiving, NewYears, my own Birthday for sometime now. But there is a lesson to be learned from this. Christmas is rarely celebrated as a religious event to non-Christians and even Christians. Its more of a social event. So I can use the same analogy and use Friday Prayers, Eid, using "Salaam" as a greetings; more as a social event with less of a religious connotation. Like I would say "Namaskar" to a hindu neighbor in reply to his greetings or "God bless you" when someone sneezes, without giving a flying frack about god.

- Step 3: Seek like-minded People

To me Atheist Organization is an oxymoron. But they can be a platform for like-minded people to help keep their sanity against the odds and share ideas and thoughts. I have no doubt that there are quite a few atheists in Bangladesh, esp in Dhaka. I have to reach out to some of them and see how they cope with everything. A simple Google search gave few link to organizations:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...4368932&v=wall
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...s_atheists.php


The idea is not to protect myself. The idea is to not offend others who doesn't share my views. I could very well tell everyone in their face that I don't believe in god and not willing to appease their feelings; but that wouldn't make a very happy place to live. After all we bangalis are an emotional bunch.

Any thoughts and ideas?

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Blah

- Step 3: Seek like-minded People

To me Atheist Organization is an oxymoron. But they can be a platform for like-minded people to help keep their sanity against the odds and share ideas and thoughts. I have no doubt that there are quite a few atheists in Bangladesh, esp in Dhaka. I have to reach out to some of them and see how they cope with everything. A simple Google search gave few link to organizations:
[/url]

while you are at it... you guys all should meet at one particular time on a particular day every week to update each other on protecting yourselves. And then you should perform some rituals to make sure they are "in" it, and not just here for the free lunch.

Done! you get funnier and funnier every day.

[iDumb]

Let me tell you something, nobody gives the f what you believe in or what you don't even in Dhaka. If they do, you are hanging out with the wrong crowd. Your problem is clearly your inability to socialize with people (according to you), nothing else.

You've already disappointed? your parents - the least of your worry is "hurting/offending" some of your random relative or friends. Get your priorities right.

"I don't feel like praying" or even better "NO" is i don't feel like praying/No. Be assertive. You don't owe anyone any explanation as to why you dont' feel like praying (ie namaz porte bhule gechi and don't wanna learn etc etc). Altercation will only happen with random ppl who don't care about you only if you try to justify yourself. You should avoid that not only in Dhaka but also in NY or in any place in the world.

[iDumb]

or you can form that little atheist group and declare atheist fatwa on religious ppl. Up to you. Just saying.. the more you try to get away the stronger the pull is right?

[Zeeshan]

Enlightened is he who can get along with anyone at anytime. Certain differences aside I earned respect for Arnab - who was very non-religious -if i may gather from his posts -- because someone opened a thread on a dua and when some punk was complaining he said sth. in the line like "whats the harm in saying a little prayer..."

Blah being a non-muslim in a land of people who dish out unsolicited advices like fkin halloween candies as if they are on the peak of the ziggarut of spirituality smacks nothing but of hypocrisies. Problem with muslims-esp. Bangladeshi muslims is that instead of rectifying their own flaws they are much more concerned with OTHERS and would jump at every occasion to point out others flaws instead of lubing their own machine (don't go there iDumb). So blah I am almost on the same boat being a non-muslim and on man occasions I was met by conflict.

Having pointed out the flaws of Bangladeshi-Muslims and their hypocrisies, I absolutely agree with iDumb's first line. Dude, you are going after like 8 or 10 years. Bangladesh has progressed wayyy more than the arranged-marriage generation that you left since then. People can care less what the hell do you believe in. But when you do meet some of these hypocrites who are OVERLY concerned with providing YOU with salvation, because of their logical inconsistencies I see that they can be shut down in one blow. I guess you have to be a self-controlled ronin NOT to hurt their feelings and just ignore them.

And as iDumb mentioned, dude you really need to stand up for what you believe. It's not bloody saudia arabia where they will cut off your head if you stand up for your beliefs. Finally, I think you are right on the money about salam.... Weeks ago my nanu passed away. How utterly rude would it be of me if I didn't acknowledge people's condolences with innalillah even though I am not a muslim! So ultimately in the grander scheme of life, that's what really matters can be encapsulated in the following words of the Nike Ad:

"Life isn't about keeping score. It's not about how many people call you and it's not about who you've dated, are dating, or haven't dated at all. It isn't about who you've kissed, what sport you play, or which guy or girl likes you. It's not about your shoes or your hair or the colour of your skin or where you live or go to school. In fact, it's not about grades, money, clothes, or colleges that accept you or not. Life isn't about if you have lots of friends, or if you are alone, and it's not about how accepted or unaccepted you are. Life just isn't about that. But life is about who you love and who you hurt. It's about how you feel about yourself. It's about trust, happiness, and compassion. It's about sticking up for your friends and replacing inner hate with love. Life is about avoiding jealousy, overcoming ignorance, and building confidence. It's about what you say and what you mean. It's about seeing people for who they are and not what they have. Most of all, it is about choosing to use your life to touch someone else's in a way that could never have been achieved otherwise. These choices are what life's about."
--Nike ad

Finally, open your mind....just...not much...just a teeny-meeny inch for God's sakes man.

Cheers.

p.s. iDumb join my goddamn group!!

[Blah]

Originally Posted by iDumb
or you can form that little atheist group and declare atheist fatwa on religious ppl. Up to you. Just saying.. the more you try to get away the stronger the pull is right?

uDumb

[Blah]

Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Having pointed out the flaws of Bangladeshi-Muslims and their hypocrisies, I absolutely agree with iDumb's first line. Dude, you are going after like 8 or 10 years. Bangladesh has progressed wayyy more than the arranged-marriage generation that you left since then. People can care less what the hell do you believe in. But when you do meet some of these hypocrites who are OVERLY concerned with providing YOU with salvation, because of their logical inconsistencies I see that they can be shut down in one blow. I guess you have to be a self-controlled ronin NOT to hurt their feelings and just ignore them.

I guess I am not sure what to expect. I have a tendency of trying to analyze a situation and be prepared for it, instead of being thrown in to a situation and adjust to it. Having lived in NY and knowing the handful banagalis that I know, it doesn't give me a lot of hope.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Blah
uDumb

very eloquent. My in your face type of replies may unsettle you first and give you the urge to write things like this but it's a good advice none the less. If you wanna be pampered, go to your mommy.

I can sugar coat the same text and next thing i know you will be proposing me in public. Too bad for you, I don't go after closet freaks.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by iDumb
very eloquent.

You expect an eloquent reply to what was essentially a bunch of dumb comments?

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Blah
You expect an eloquent reply to what was essentially a bunch of dumb comments?

Step 1: Avoidance : FAIL
Step 2: Compromise: FAIL
Step 3: Seek like-minded People: You will have no problem here

[Blah]

Originally Posted by iDumb
Step 1: Avoidance : FAIL
Step 2: Compromise: FAIL
Step 3: Seek like-minded People: You will have no problem here

See, that wasn't so hard. Even with "Random Dumb Sentence Generator", once in a while you put together few sentences, which gives an illusion of eloquence with a simple word like "FAIL".

This reminds me of the Infinite Monkey Theorem, which states that:

"...a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare."

You might not end up writing the complete works of Shakespear, but it could almost be a legible haiku.

Don't be a troll, that's so 90s...

[Habib]

Koto haji nijey pajir pa jhara hoy r uni to hajir chhele...he he.

[Rifat]

Blah,

with all due respect, if you sincerely spent so much time in kakrail masjid(a.k.a. Bangladesh Tabligh Jamaat headquarters) then please answer this question:

do you remember the 6 points of Tabligh Jamaat? using your own words(not some website extracted using google) please describe the six points.

I Urge other BC members not to answer for him. lets see if he remembers...

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Blah,

with all due respect,:

do you remember the 6 points of Tabligh Jamaat? using your own words(not some website extracted using google) please describe the six points.

ooo the subtle diss!! Rifat owning?

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by iDumb
ooo the subtle diss!! Rifat owning?

wait till he pwns the saree thread too.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Blah
You might not end up writing the complete works of Shakespear, but it could almost be a legible haiku.

your replies are LAME! Come up with something clever - even that half dimwit Fazal does that time to time.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Blah,

with all due respect, if you sincerely spent so much time in kakrail masjid(a.k.a. Bangladesh Tabligh Jamaat headquarters) then please answer this question:

do you remember the 6 points of Tabligh Jamaat? using your own words(not some website extracted using google) please describe the six points.

I Urge other BC members not to answer for him. lets see if he remembers...

No I don't remember the 6 points of Tabligh Jamaat, something that I was involved with ~14 years ago. I also don't remember the name of the main character of the book I read last week.

Whats your point? If your are trying to suggest that I am Bs-ing you, understand that me doing 3-days or Chilla (I often confuse it with the word chollisha) has nothing to do with the main point of this thread. If it is so difficult for you to digest that a tablig going Muslim can be a non-believer, do yourself a favor and ignore the part that I used to be a devout Muslim and you would miss nothing as for the point of the thread.

For whats its worth. Things that I do remember from tabligh:

- 3 days were almost always within dhaka or very close to dhaka.

- 40 days were almost always outside of dhaka or outside of the country.

- During 3 days (at least during my time) the mosques that we were assigned to would most of the time not know in advance that we would be going there and staying inside the mosque overnight for 2-3 days. So we would often get kicked out from one mosques to another.

- Chilla were broken down to 1-2 mosques per week. I went to chilla only once, but ended up staying about 15 days, mostly because I couldn't get permission from parents.

- Depending on the size of the group we would be broken down in to 3-4 groups, each assigned to particular jobs for the duration of the stay. (ie, one group for Dawat, one group for cooking/shopping, one group for jigir inside while the other group is out for dawat AFAI remember). Everyone was encouraged to try every duty at least once.

Basically, organized indoctrination.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by iDumb
your replies are LAME! Come up with something clever - even that half dimwit Fazal does that time to time.

Are we in a competition to sound clever? In that case, you lost even before we started.

Oh well...

[Rifat]

iSmart bro said something very very pofound in post #3 kudos to him

You don't owe anyone any explanation as to why you dont' feel like praying (ie namaz porte bhule gechi and don't wanna learn etc etc).

Exactly!
it is only for Allah! after all, He invented Islam not some human beings. it is a religion from the divine.

I will justify my reasoning as to why do i always praise Allah in BanglaCricket, continue to remind myself and others: as Allah,the exalted in praise says in the uncorrupted, Qur'an:

وَمَنۡ أَحۡسَنُ قَوۡلاً۬ مِّمَّن دَعَآ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحً۬ا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِى مِنَ ٱلۡمُسۡلِمِينَ

Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says "I am of those who bow in Islam"?

surah Fussilat, ayah 33(chapter 41, verse 33)

and again:

أَفَمَن شَرَحَ ٱللَّهُ صَدۡرَهُ ۥ لِلۡإِسۡلَـٰمِ فَهُوَ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ۬ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ‌ۚ فَوَيۡلٌ۬ لِّلۡقَـٰسِيَةِ قُلُوبُہُم مِّن ذِكۡرِ ٱللَّهِ‌ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ فِى ضَلَـٰلٍ۬ مُّبِينٍ

Is one whose heart Allah has opened to Islam, so that he has received enlightenment from Allah, (no better than one hard-hearted)? Woe to those whose hearts are hardened against celebrating the praises of Allah! They are manifestly wandering (in error)!

surah Zumar, ayah 22(Chapter 39, verse 22)

[Zunaid]

Kids - don't make me go back there. Please keep it civil.

- As admin

[mona]

I'll try to play nice Dr. Z.

Originally Posted by iDumb
Let me tell you something, nobody gives the f what you believe in or what you don't even in Dhaka. If they do, you are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

You're wrong about that Dummy.

People do care. Yes they f around and do whatever the utterly unIslamic else kids do these days but it doesn't stop their jaws from dropping when you declare that you don't fast or pray because you're a 'nastik'. And however 'f u all biatches' your attitude is, it doesn't stop you being affected by the disappointed look you get from a much respected and pious fufa when he hears the same thing about you. However I have to say most of my family think I will grow out of it. But I've done enough toing and froing.

The thing that ticks me off the most is how believers (for lack of a better term) can get on their high-horse and somehow make US (for lack of a better term) out to be the bad people. Yet the only difference between most believers and I is that I accept that I can't completely and purely follow the religion so I don't follow it at all. I never do anything unless I know I can do it well. Many of my believer friends on the other hand like doing whatever they please and decide to pray and 'praise Allah' whenever they please too. In fact I would say that I am in accordance with the religion more closely than many of them are, except I don't believe. If you can't follow it wholly and completely and to the best of your physical ability, then aren't you admitting that it's not 'perfect'?? Many of my friends say that they just 'like to do what they can' to follow the religion. I'm sure they have the best intentions to be better Muslims when they're older. In other words a time when binge drinking/dressing like a skank/having pre-marital sex won't be an issue because they'll be too old for that stuff. How is that not a cop out?

These people are almost a blessing though for me. They make my conviction about atheism stronger because they show me time and time again that I can still aim to be a pure and good person without religion, whilst their incomplete practice of it only masks their own hypocrisy.

[Hacker]

Only selfish, mean and escapist people don't believe in god. Because they think that they know everything knowable. The thread title summarizes it all.

p.s. I apologize if it hurts someone.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by mona
I'll try to play nice Dr. Z.



You're wrong about that Dummy.

People do care. Yes they f around and do whatever the utterly unIslamic else kids do these days but it doesn't stop their jaws from dropping when you declare that you don't fast or pray because you're a 'nastik'. And however 'f u all biatches' your attitude is, it doesn't stop you being affected by the disappointed look you get from a much respected and pious fufa when he hears the same thing about you. However I have to say most of my family think I will grow out of it. But I've done enough toing and froing.

The thing that ticks me off the most is how believers (for lack of a better term) can get on their high-horse and somehow make US (for lack of a better term) out to be the bad people. Yet the only difference between most believers and I is that I accept that I can't completely and purely follow the religion so I don't follow it at all. I never do anything unless I know I can do it well. Many of my believer friends on the other hand like doing whatever they please and decide to pray and 'praise Allah' whenever they please too. In fact I would say that I am in accordance with the religion more closely than many of them are, except I don't believe. If you can't follow it wholly and completely and to the best of your physical ability, then aren't you admitting that it's not 'perfect'?? Many of my friends say that they just 'like to do what they can' to follow the religion. I'm sure they have the best intentions to be better Muslims when they're older. In other words a time when binge drinking/dressing like a skank/having pre-marital sex won't be an issue because they'll be too old for that stuff. How is that not a cop out?

These people are almost a blessing though for me. They make my conviction about atheism stronger because they show me time and time again that I can still aim to be a pure and good person without religion, whilst their incomplete practice of it only masks their own hypocrisy.

Rightly put. When it comes to family, its impossible to tell them in their face that you don't believe in their silly god and still keep a "normal" and sane relationship. There will have to be a compromise, and unfortunately the compromise will have to come from the person who is a non-believer. Because a religious person would never compromise.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Blah
No I don't remember the 6 points of Tabligh Jamaat, something that I was involved with ~14 years ago. I also don't remember the name of the main character of the book I read last week.

Whats your point? If your are trying to suggest that I am Bs-ing you, understand that me doing 3-days or Chilla (I often confuse it with the word chollisha) has nothing to do with the main point of this thread. If it is so difficult for you to digest that a tablig going Muslim can be a non-believer, do yourself a favor and ignore the part that I used to be a devout Muslim and you would miss nothing as for the point of the thread.

For whats its worth. Things that I do remember from tabligh:

- 3 days were almost always within dhaka or very close to dhaka.

- 40 days were almost always outside of dhaka or outside of the country.

- During 3 days (at least during my time) the mosques that we were assigned to would most of the time not know in advance that we would be going there and staying inside the mosque overnight for 2-3 days. So we would often get kicked out from one mosques to another.

- Chilla were broken down to 1-2 mosques per week. I went to chilla only once, but ended up staying about 15 days, mostly because I couldn't get permission from parents.

- Depending on the size of the group we would be broken down in to 3-4 groups, each assigned to particular jobs for the duration of the stay. (ie, one group for Dawat, one group for cooking/shopping, one group for jigir inside while the other group is out for dawat AFAI remember). Everyone was encouraged to try every duty at least once.

Basically, organized indoctrination.

i too don't exactly know how you can confuse a chilla with a chollisha...and i'm an american, mind you.

also don't understand how can "forget" how to pray, unless you ONLY knew large surahs which can be forgotten easily due to length and low frequency of recitation. but forgetting how to recite small surahs + the duas of prayer means u never knew them well to begin with, i.e even when religious you didn't pray all that often if at all. your story doesn't add up.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i too don't exactly know how you can confuse a chilla with a chollisha...and i'm an american, mind you.

also don't understand how can "forget" how to pray, unless you ONLY knew large surahs which can be forgotten easily due to length and low frequency of recitation. but forgetting how to recite small surahs + the duas of prayer means u never knew them well to begin with, i.e even when religious you didn't pray all that often if at all. your story doesn't add up.

Its ok I am not dying to prove the authenticity of what I said or really care whether you, or anyone, believe it or not. Being a religious person in the past is not something I am really proud of.