Fire Siddons and Ashraful!

[Sohel]

Frankly, I'm far more concerned about who they hire after Sid's little Bangladeshi adventure comes to a crashing halt. Before or after the all-expense paid vacation to Caribbean, only BCB knows.

Whomever they hire next must know the fundamental truth(s) about our cricket. Facts that may help them succeed better:

1. Our FC structure is totally inadequate to prepare cricketers for the highest level. Inadequate in terms of basic technique and temperament.

2. Our whimsical selectors work a "system" based on everything but fairness, systematic analysis, and transparency.

3. Jodi Laigga Jay: Meaning and Tradition.

No more "enviable infrastructure" where boundless talent oozes forth, please!

[Fazal]

People ask who do you have if you sack Ash as captain?
The answer can be "Plenty to choose from" or "None unless you try with someone new with proven leadership quality".

Its not that Ash is leaving a legacy like Imran or Ponting, and it will be hard to fill the shoes whoever comes in.

Just face it folks, thanks to Lipu & Co., Ash has set the standard so low, that basically whoever we pick out of the rest, there is a better chance he will perform better in the following categories:
1. Bowler Management
2. Team spirit
3. Not trying to find a scapegoat in young players to try to cover his own shortcoming in the game
4. Trying to set better standard in terms of accountability.
5. Try to set by example, leading from the front
6. Would not look so stupid in media
7. Would be more careful what he says and does off the field and on the field
8. In adversary condition, protect his young players
9. Better relationship with the coach
10. Use his brain a little bit more and try to avoid same mistakes

Selecting young player as captain has its own risk. But teams like India and South Africa, who have higher stakes than Bangladesh, selected young players as they saw leadership quality in young players and the long term benefit.

Do we have those type of young players? I bet we do. Who are those? Sakib, Rahim, Rakibul are few we can name. Who knows Riad and Naeem may have better leadership quality than what we have now, BCB should know that, nurture that and make a bold decision... it cannot be any worse than what we have now. Now I understand, to be the captain, the player need to be good enough to be in the team by his own cricket playing skills. And that what BCB needs to do, evaluate out of all these young players who have the leadership quality and select one and stick with him for next few years and see what happend. He can turn out to be a Smith of SA or a Shoib of PAK. If he turn out to be another Shoib, BIG Deal... "Nengter Abar Lozza", still he would be better than what we have now.

Talking about Sakib, pleople saw he will loose his form like Ash. Please give us a break, Sakib is no Ashraful. And os far in other level, Skaib already proved that when he leads a team, his team does better than expected, he leaded warm up matches against team like SA and NZ. Just go back and see his track record a in the past as a captain. There is every indication that he would be above average Captain and much better one than we have in last 5 years.

[WarWolf]

Originally Posted by raf-stah
wud it be correct if i blamed ur parents for teachin u no manners? NO. it ur somewhat UR FAULT FOR NOT LEARNING.

In the practical world the blame goes to the parents also and some times it's justified too.

[abu2abu]

I can’t agree to making Shakib captain. Sure, it’s an insult to compare him to Ash (he’s a far more sensible player than Ash) but making any player captain comes with a risk. A player might respond by raising his game (England’s Graham Gooch and arguably Andrew Strauss actually improved their form with the captaincy) or by a dip in form.

As Shakib is our best player by far, in all forms of cricket, this seems to be a risk the selectors are unwilling to take. Flintoff is a good example, he was made captain for the 2006/07 ashes series in the hope that as the team’s talisman he could motivate them to repeat the success of the 2005 ashes. In the end however, the pressure was too much for him and he led England to a 5-0 whitewash by the mighty Aussies.

I think we should hold off giving the captaincy to shakib just yet. Mashrafe is still the best man for the job right now...

[godzilla]

Man another useless thread bout this again!! why do you guys bother posting post bout siddon and ash being fired ... u know well enough that no one is captain metarial in bd and i donno bout siddon not being a good coach but we did win more matches with the G8 under his coaching!! anyway

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by mishu
maybe we should get cheerleaders instead of the head coach than... that will motivate our players...

Lol...the best post of the thread. Awesome reply.

What do you guys mean by Siddons can't "motivate"? Isn't playing International cricket around the World motivation enough for the players? Isn't playing Test cricket with the best players enough? Isn't being followed and loved by millions of people enough? What about earning the money that they would not have otherwise ever dreamed of? If they still can't "motivate" themselves to perform then it is not the coach's fault it is the players who have some mental problems which needs to be dealt with.

I remember another quote from a member here. We are busy discussing who to fire or what the best combination is but the players are probably at the moment making lists of what to bring back from the Caribbean.

[Ajfar]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Why? He is one of the top 3 performers of the team, so what's his problem?

BANFAN bhai apnare hath jor kore bolchi..apni ki lekhsen aieta bhalo kore abar poren..top 3 performer?? if you include ashraful in that list it becomes the under performer list..

[BANFAN]

Siddons needs to go sooner than later. It is due to him we see problems in multiple areas and he enjoys the benefit. Just like Bucha made it look in KKR. KKR seemed to have problem with captain, player's form, coherence etc etc, but we know it was only him, the coach.

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Siddons needs to go sooner than later. It is due to him we see problems in multiple areas and he enjoys the benefit. Just like Bucha made it look in KKR. KKR seemed to have p[roblem with coach, form, coherence etc etc, but we know it was only him.

You could draw similarities between Bangladesh and KKR if we had players like Gayle, McCullum and Mendis otherwise you just made a ridiculous comparison. We know what the players mentioned are capable of and since they underperformed in the IPL we can conclude they weren't properly being managed/coached/utilised by the coach, captain and the management of KKR. However were Ashraful and Mashrafe world-class superstars before the arrival of Siddons? Did they put the world on fire when they played under other coaches (for Asia XI or in the IPL)? So how can you prove that Siddons is the reason behind their ineptness?

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by bangladesh_sy
BANFAN bhai apnare hath jor kore bolchi..apni ki lekhsen aieta bhalo kore abar poren..top 3 performer?? if you include ashraful in that list it becomes the under performer list..

BD_Sy, that I wrote on 22nd Jan. That was meant for Test & ODI of last one year/after he became captain. That still is the case. I also like to believe that he is in the bottom 3 with his performance, unfortunately we don't have as many players better than him.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Equinox
You could draw similarities between Bangladesh and KKR if we had players like Gayle, McCullum and Mendis otherwise you just made a ridiculous comparison. We know what the players mentioned are capable of and since they underperformed in the IPL we can conclude they weren't properly being managed/coached/utilised by the coach, captain and the management of KKR. However were Ashraful and Mashrafe world-class superstars before the arrival of Siddons? Did they put the world on fire when they played under other coaches (for Asia XI or in the IPL)? So how can you prove that Siddons is the reason behind their ineptness?

You just used the right reasoning for wrong cause.

Because the KKR players were superstars and they can do a lot by themselves, they should have been more responsible for the poor show. Coach could have played very little role to destabilize them. While a non star team can be destabilized much more easily by a bad coach than a team with established stars. But yet they do.

A coach is more important and can cause more damage to a team like us. Yes, I agree Ash and Mash weren't stars before JS came, but what did the coach do? did he improve them? surely not. So what is he doing? doing good for us?

You are easily pointing fingures at our young developing players while KKR didn't point fingure to the even established players. They identified the root cause, we didn't. it's time that we act fast, or this coach will ruin us.

[mafizraju]

Originally Posted by Catskills
Siddon as a coach is good for Australia only, not Bangladesh. He does not know how to motivate players. He always thinks that we cannot beat top 8 countries He has even set our target to 200 (which is why we have trouble chasing 200). He constantly argues that our players are not good enough. Our facilities are not good enough and it will take few more years before we can see the results. He does not believe in winning matches here and there but constantly win matches in the future- great point but when and how? I don't buy his argument. Sri Lanka does not have facilities like Australia and their players' physique are not like Australian, but they always produce world class players. I can bet he does not understand how to coach foreign players, other than Australian players. Coaching is about understanding the techniques, human psychology, motivation and the culture of the country you are coaching. It is about time, we see the present, because future is shaped by the present through careful thoughts, vision and planning. If we don’t see the result in present time, we will never see the result in the future.

Most of these are pure stupid comments. Bangladesh consistantly failed to get 200 mark for most part our cricketing history in ODIs. And whenever we passed 200 there we were able to defend that. And this is what precisely siddons wanted us to do. Score 200+ consistently. What is wrong with this approach?????

He consistently argues that we dont have a match winner. We may have potential match winner but we dont have a real one. I dont see what is so wrong with that statement. I see nothing wrong in calling spade a spade.

You can only improve if you know where you limitations are. It looks like you just dont like the person or dont understand what critisicm are for or live in some weird world

[mafizraju]

Originally Posted by mishu
if Bangladesh batting sucked so much how were they able to do a score of 400+ in test??? siddon is building a side which is good at test cricketing and it will take some time... so be patient guys.. don't change opinions after every single game...

400+ once in a blue moon doesn't count. To quote siddons "I call it a fluke: unless you can do it consistently. Pure and simple

[mafizraju]

Originally Posted by Fazal
People ask who do you have if you sack Ash as captain?
The answer can be "Plenty to choose from" or "None unless you try with someone new with proven leadership quality".

Its not that Ash is leaving a legacy like Imran or Ponting, and it will be hard to fill the shoes whoever comes in.

Just face it folks, thanks to Lipu & Co., Ash has set the standard so low, that basically whoever we pick out of the rest, there is a better chance he will perform better in the following categories:
1. Bowler Management
2. Team spirit
3. Not trying to find a scapegoat in young players to try to cover his own shortcoming in the game
4. Trying to set better standard in terms of accountability.
5. Try to set by example, leading from the front
6. Would not look so stupid in media
7. Would be more careful what he says and does off the field and on the field
8. In adversary condition, protect his young players
9. Better relationship with the coach
10. Use his brain a little bit more and try to avoid same mistakes

Selecting young player as captain has its own risk. But teams like India and South Africa, who have higher stakes than Bangladesh, selected young players as they saw leadership quality in young players and the long term benefit.

Do we have those type of young players? I bet we do. Who are those? Sakib, Rahim, Rakibul are few we can name. Who knows Riad and Naeem may have better leadership quality than what we have now, BCB should know that, nurture that and make a bold decision... it cannot be any worse than what we have now. Now I understand, to be the captain, the player need to be good enough to be in the team by his own cricket playing skills. And that what BCB needs to do, evaluate out of all these young players who have the leadership quality and select one and stick with him for next few years and see what happend. He can turn out to be a Smith of SA or a Shoib of PAK. If he turn out to be another Shoib, BIG Deal... "Nengter Abar Lozza", still he would be better than what we have now.

Talking about Sakib, pleople saw he will loose his form like Ash. Please give us a break, Sakib is no Ashraful. And os far in other level, Skaib already proved that when he leads a team, his team does better than expected, he leaded warm up matches against team like SA and NZ. Just go back and see his track record a in the past as a captain. There is every indication that he would be above average Captain and much better one than we have in last 5 years.

I am absolutely not in favour of Sakib, no matter how tempting that might be. In 20/20 WC he failed to show us that he is different then the rest. Over the last one year he has shown that he is a better player. But he still need to develop a lot more and clearly has few more years before he can develop. mashrafee is a choker. Plain and simple. Mushy himself is not good enough.

Its funny how ICL is still biting us. But bangladehs palyer should feel pressure now ICLer's are back. And I dont like this grouping issues. If this is not a problem in pakistan, in NZ in anywhere in the world why it should be a problem for Bangladesh

[uss01]

You're right dude, not sure why some people are saying to get an Indian coach. What a stupid idea. We should have a Bangladeshi coach.

Originally Posted by crussher
I am in agreement.

I think that Siddons has created negative vibes by criticizing the team and individual players in the media. That is simply not acceptable from a coach under any circumstances.

Get a Bangladeshi coach, play the Bangladeshi way and stop trying to be like Australia. Play cricket your own way.

[mafizraju]

Originally Posted by thebest
My question is why? You need experience head to close out tough match. Rafiq and HB are product of our highly competitive premier league not the joke NCL. And who give him the right to call HB the old man. I would have no problem to start with a new team if our team was not young enough. Talking about same group of player - some days ago I read 2008 is one of the busiest year for debutant for Bangladesh. It is not well known that Junaid, Imrul were handpicked by JS and in the process ruin their career. Why not play with JO (I am not a JO fan; but I would have understand if he said that he is preserving Junaid/Imrul/Sadat)/ Tusher Imran/ Nafees Iqbal.

Sorry only player he lost was Dhiman. Even before ICL exodus most of us (the seasoned one) have lost complete faith with the others and conclude that they could not make the cut as a decent International Cricketer. BTW, with the exception Dhiman all the other three have lost their place (though Alok probably played but he would have been dumped alonged with the Gadha) in the team.He is responsible for Farhad Reza's demise and subsequent ICL transfer. Neither Sajidul's performance in NZ nor Nazmul's performance at Aus deserved dumping. But he dumped them based on one bad performance where as his golden boys (read Zunaid, Tamim, Ash to some extent Raqibul )could play even after series of bad performance. Only Naeem is the beneficiary of ICL exodus.


We would not if he did not try to prove that we are progressing while in reality we are regressing. Some of you arguing that we have much closer match. But this has more to do with pitches (which is more bowler friendly). With our much better bowling unit opposition batsman are strucgling much more than our batsmen in these pitches. In the high scoring real ODI wicket (those in Pakistan) our result showed how we performed. Our batting has not improved a bit. Sakib with all his maturity still slash to ball outside off; Tamim/ Zunaid still have technical flaw to balls outside off; Mushy re-invented his high backlift which resulted in he is getting bowled each and every time a bowler bowled an inswinger (he sorted it out during last premier league); Rock can not play any decent spinner (though in initial stage I thought he was decent againest spinner); Nayeem only knows playing down the wicket againest the spinner. I intentionaly did not talk about the gadha (he is beyond teaching; so JS should not be blamed for teaching this gadha).
What he did - he ruined the team by claiming we are not good or we should not dream of winning agaienst top 8; that is the reason we are now even strugling to beat Zimbabwe (no disrespect to Zimb). He invented those weird rules like we should not lose any wicket in first 10 overs even if this means in powerplay we score 10 runs or we should go all guns blazing. Like his captain he knows only two gears - 1st or 4th.
In terms of strategy he would get a zero - how could he did not suggest Ash to decide to field after winning the toss on that fateful day or not protesting five captain rule; though he never fail to crticise BCB for not developing a strong NCL. BTW you can not do it in a day. It needs 20 years for a strong FC league. BCB's mistake was to promote NCL they scrape the ultra competative premiar league; not appointing McInnes -the mentor of most of the team member (I think 8 of the 11 played in the last match are protegee of McInnes)
He is a charlatan; came to Bangladesh for earning easy money. The time he was supposed to correct the technical flaw of the batsmen i.e. off season he spend in Australia ( DW went for vacation once or twice in the year though DW has a young family). I don't know what he is doing; but I read in BC he sought a batting coach. Holy **** we hired you because you was batting coach. You do neither a great motivationar (a la fletcher) nor a great stratigist ( a la DW). We hired you to teach our batsman (we know they come to national team with technical flaw) and you are now seeking batting coach. If that is the case please resign we would hire a batting coach who could work as head coach or we would hire a head who is a great strategist/motivationer and another batting coach.

You got things completely upside down.......

1. Rafique already retired when he came in. so he didnot tell on rafiq
2. haba was already out of sort for over 6 months and lost place in ODI team. if he was so strong mentally why could he not prove his worth. So I see no fault of Jamie in that at all(I am big haba fan and didnot like the fact that he lost the captaincy to ash)
3. He did not handpick anybody. He worked with players he was given to .
4. We all knew golla was not even an option. You had three oppeners, Tamim, Z, Nafees--- and all three were technically and skill wise far better than Golla. Is there any doubt?
5. Regarding Kapali and S Nafees: Nafees was struggling with his form against bigger teams and he was sidelined specially after Z played some good knocks. and he was in the team even before Siddons came in.
6. Kapali was a player siddons liked very much and said "We have potential match winner in kapali if he could perform like he did against india more consistently". After Kapali left he did mention that kapali was probably a star in making given he could be consistent.
7. He said if we do not consistently put 200+ we should not dream of winning and winning once in a blue moon is clearly a fluke and rest of the world seem to agree with that but you.
8. He said we do not have a match winner in our team. Which is a truth. But he did mention Ashraful is only one (kapali wa the other he mentioned later) who is a match winner if he fires and that is absolute truth
9. That means for the team to do well, we need to do well collectively.
10. One of the biggest problem with our Batsmen were on how to build and innigs and he did set some rule and regulations regarding this. That does curb some of their natarul thinking but once successful it clearly proved his point (and that was a number of occasions)
11. I thought performance of the team over last year was very good given that we dont have half the players in the team. Even blind man will tell you that in terms of ability Aftab, S Nafees, and kapil are much better than Naem, Mehrab jr and those kids.
12. He seeked a batting coach cause he wanted to be able to give more time with the batters and concentrate. he found that our batters have too many technical faults and he wanted to correct all of them more quickly. There is absolutely nothing wrong I can see about that.
13. If he can be a batting coach for Mighty Australians he has the know how for teach anybody in bangladesh how to bat for we have never produced a single batsman with same technical ability as one australian national team player.
14. It doesnot take 20 years to build FC structure. It might take time to develop, but it doesnot take time to change pay structure and hell with it The pitches. Pitch can be changed over few months. BCB has not even done that. What is so wrong in pointing that out?
15. Richard McInnes was good coach for those young boyz. bangladesh should have had continued or found another one like him to continue in age groups, but we didnot find one and thats a problem we will have to face.
16. thats the stupidest thing I have heard regarding his gear when he critises the team for going all out blazing when we needed only 6 runs and over.
17. Dhiman is half the batmen mushfiq is. And if batting was not an issue Khaled masud would have still played in the national team and would have been the captain of the team.
18. Regarding his vacation that is another bull statement. Dave's family was used to living in subcontinent and they are now living in India. But nobody wants to live in bangladesh specially in Dhaka. hell people from dhaka dont want to live in dhaka. So what is so wrong if he goes to see his newborn baby. he didnot leave his team and went there. He took a vacation from beforehand and these things were part of the contract he has with BCB. You cannot blame a man to go and see his newborn baby after he was so disappointed with the teams performance
19. He didnot come to bangladesh to earn money only. he wanted a career. His coaching career has just started. He could have stayed with Australia and surely would have had a much stedier life than flying all the time to go and see his girlfriend. So his failure here will be a big obstackle in the career.
20. Any top level athletes who fails to motivate themselves or fails to lift themselves to perform should not be in the national team.
21. In which other profession they have a motivator to tag along with all the worker every single time? This is a culture thing. A sportsman should want to do their best. In university when do teachers try to motivate a person who doesnot want to write in the exam paper?

So cut the craps. And call for change of our stupid culture. Call for restructure in pay system (greater share should be given to performace). There are still time and BCB should seriously consider improving fitness and skill of FC cricketer all year round. And leave the national team to Jamie till the end of next worldcup.

[bujhee kom]

Jege utho!

[tiger_club]

Ash should be sacked with the selectors not Siddons

[Russell2k7]

^can you please remove that flashy avatar? It can be hazardous to health.

[Murad]

Originally Posted by godzilla
Man another useless thread bout this again!! why do you guys bother posting post bout siddon and ash being fired ... u know well enough that no one is captain metarial in bd and i donno bout siddon not being a good coach but we did win more matches with the G8 under his coaching!! anyway

Bhaijan kai kana naki? Don't you see the date the thread opened?

Kisu na deikhai..useless bole dei.. haire obagha desher obagha manush..

[wiseshah]

Originally Posted by nycpro96
idk about this. if ash does resign. who will be captain. we have to think these things before we fire him

anybody but ash will be okay for the role. as a captain he is garbage.

i think, india-pakistan coach will never be good for our country because of lack of professionalism. but srilanka or south african coach definitely will be A plus.

make michael bevan, jonty rhodes or lance klusener our coach

[beshideshi]

Once again, we are revolving around the same point. BD are playing very good cricket. Ireland game was an accident. We scored 450 in the 4th innings against SL, could have had a series win against NZ, Tri nation win etc etc. And its notlike BD has had rubbish losses. I think Ash and Siddons whould stay there at least till 2011.
first of all you cant just remove someone from their plans and expect a miracle from the next. A bad example, but think about BD in general. If one govt carried on the good things the other govt left, we would have been in a much better place. Only changing the coach or the captain is the solution, its one of the most stupidest things I have ever heard.
Secondly, we have 2 years left for WC11, and a whole new management will take time. And perhaps longer than 2 year.

Plus, I am really pissed off about what Gazi Ashraf said. Bd are not playing bad cricket, one bad day doesnt mean we are going nowehre. Have faith in the team. Things will get better, and we will have sstrings of success[like we are having now, excluding the irish game] and we will be # 5-6 by the time siddons leaves in 2012.

[_Rafi_]

SouthAfrican coachs are more suitable for bd as well as any asian team .they are more friendly,dedicated and hard working. If u hv any doubt about their ability pls just remember AD BARLO. JONTY RhODeS may be good choice.

[abu2abu]

Eddie Barlow was a great BD coach.

It's true that our performances (in tests and ODIs in particular) has been improving of late, but did we really expect it to decline?!

In any case, history won't remember the near misses (we should have beaten NZ in that test match and South Africa in Mirpur), the end result is we haven't won a test (and have only one 1 ODI) since Ash/JS have been at the helm. That fact cannot be ignored and is the only criteria that resonates with the public...

[simon]

Originally Posted by meazz1
Problem lies with our players.
No one can spoon feed any one. These boys need to learn and apply. Problem is the mental state of these players.
Don't tell me that the best coach out there can come in and change all this at drop of a dime.
If so, go for it and spend that money....let's see what we can achieve. Nothing really.

Ya very true.
I think Siddns is a good batting coach but our players failure is making Siddns look useless as a head coach.
Apart from our batting agnst WI last yr T20 we didn't do much in
T20 07 whereas this yr we did alot better except agnst Irlnd.
Look at our battng agnst Aust, Sril ,Ind & compare with last yr
T20 prfrmnce.
Our plyaers with their ridiculous bttng & mindset despite good techniques is the only reason ,so let's not get agnst Siddns.