|
Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket
|
November 11, 2012, 09:43 AM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 24,918
|
|
Test Progress Monitor (Nov 2012)
Test cricket after a year...7 matches scheduled over the next (WI, SL, ZIM, NZ). We need a thread to dissect exactly how we are doing. This thread can become a continuing epic to track our progress (or lack thereof).
But how to measure and against what standard?
1) Our first 3 years of Test cricket, up to 31 Dec 2003, we played 26 Tests with a batting average of 19.24 (2.77 runs/over). Bowling average 52.92 (3.51 r/o).
2) Since 1 Jan 2010, our batting avg (28.58, 3.31 r/o) and bowling (52.27, 3.60 r/o)
3) The next weakest side, NZ, since 1 Jan 2010 have a batting avg of (29.51, 3.09 r/o) and a bowling avg (38.65, 3.2 r/o)
4) The legendary AUS team from 1 Jan 2000 to that 5-0 Ashes sweep of 2007 had a bat avg (43.75, 3.74 r/o) and bowling (27.39, 3.08 r/o).
Our performance can be simply given as the ratio of our batting and bowling averages.
The Aussies had an awesome ratio of 1.60, the NZ side of late a ratio of 0.76, and our average in our early ears of 0.36. Our recent average is 0.55.
Lets see what we manage vs West Indies in the next two weeks.
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team
#OneTeam1Dream
|
November 11, 2012, 09:53 AM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: September 16, 2008
Location: Guantanamo
Favorite Player: Innocent Bird
Posts: 48,721
|
|
__________________
হোঁচট খেয়েছি অনেকবার, তবুও হার মানিনি। বাঁধা এসেছে বারবার, তবুও থেমে থাকিনি। বাঘেরা জানে কিভাবে ঘুরে দাঁড়াতে হয়। আপনারা আমাদের সাথেই থাকুন... ইনশাল্লাহ আল্লাহ ও আমাদের সহায় হবেন। চলো বাংলাদেশ!
|
November 11, 2012, 10:03 AM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,886
|
|
^ I'm hoping Sunny and Gazi can provide some much needed support to Shakib finally. That will def help to bring that bowling average down. As for our phast bowlers just keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.
|
November 11, 2012, 10:33 AM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: February 17, 2011
Location: Dans le Monde
Favorite Player: Sakib, Mashrafi, Mushfiq
Posts: 3,793
|
|
We progress in bowling in the department of spin but in pace we improve nothing. One the other hand we can't progress significantly. I think our spin is okay. But we have to improve a lot in all other departments ardently.
|
November 12, 2012, 12:39 AM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: January 18, 2008
Location: 23.71 N, 90.40 E
Favorite Player: Shakib, AB De, Amla
Posts: 5,187
|
|
It's really unacceptable that we still do not have the ability to take 20 wickets in a match. Still averaging 52 with the ball is disappointing.
__________________
"And be true to every promise- for, verily you will be called to account for every promise which you have made." - [Al Qur'an - 17:34]
|
November 12, 2012, 01:15 AM
|
|
Cricket Savant
|
|
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Nazimuddin
Posts: 35,464
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isnaad
It's really unacceptable that we still do not have the ability to take 20 wickets in a match. Still averaging 52 with the ball is disappointing.
|
That's the basic thing many organizers, selectors and obviously fans simply don't get about the long game. That's why they still obsess over containment bowling and subsequently the bowler's "economy" in tests and what passes for "FC" in Bangladesh. Naturally we have spawned an ignorant cricket culture saturated with the limited over mindset where unforced batting errors with regard to both technique and temperament gets you wickets and nobody cares about the predatory quality of the bowling. Those capable of swing and drift and therefore somewhat neutralizing the dead pitch with movement in the air, are rarely used because they will go for runs every now and then. The concept of buying a wicket is as alien as the idea that grass on the pitch has nothing to do with swing bowling.
These experts and matobbors don't get that test cricket is a bowlers game because unlike the shorter versions, there is no fielding restriction skewing the game in the batter's favor. They don't get the fact the team that gets 20 wickets wins the match, a freakish tie notwithstanding. Add crappy pitches that offer nothing to our bowlers and there you have it.
Asaad's numbers show that some of our batters have improved over the years, due to natural progression and other reasons, but the bowling remains utterly toothless.
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)
Last edited by Sohel; November 12, 2012 at 01:56 AM..
|
November 12, 2012, 02:13 PM
|
Cricket Guru
|
|
Join Date: February 24, 2004
Posts: 10,203
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
That's the basic thing many organizers, selectors and obviously fans simply don't get about the long game. That's why they still obsess over containment bowling and subsequently the bowler's "economy" in tests and what passes for "FC" in Bangladesh. Naturally we have spawned an ignorant cricket culture saturated with the limited over mindset where unforced batting errors with regard to both technique and temperament gets you wickets and nobody cares about the predatory quality of the bowling. Those capable of swing and drift and therefore somewhat neutralizing the dead pitch with movement in the air, are rarely used because they will go for runs every now and then. The concept of buying a wicket is as alien as the idea that grass on the pitch has nothing to do with swing bowling.
These experts and matobbors don't get that test cricket is a bowlers game because unlike the shorter versions, there is no fielding restriction skewing the game in the batter's favor. They don't get the fact the team that gets 20 wickets wins the match, a freakish tie notwithstanding. Add crappy pitches that offer nothing to our bowlers and there you have it.
|
I don't think it will ever happen and I feel terrible that I keep on following this team which will be like this forever
|
November 12, 2012, 02:52 PM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,182
|
|
Not to disrespect this thread but isn't the only indicator that should matter now be the result?
12 years in, I personally no longer care for centuries, 5 wicket hauls etc. Its great for that individual and I'll sure enjoy it but in the context of us a test nation, they really are meaningless. Barring record breaking stats (as a Bangladesh player or format in general) we should not overhype the individual accomplishments.
The only important stats to monitor should be a Win or a Draw, ability to take 20 wickets, being in a comfortable situation to declare , batting out to force a draw or something to that effect.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
|
November 12, 2012, 09:27 PM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 24,918
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
Not to disrespect this thread but isn't the only indicator that should matter now be the result?
12 years in, I personally no longer care for centuries, 5 wicket hauls etc. Its great for that individual and I'll sure enjoy it but in the context of us a test nation, they really are meaningless. Barring record breaking stats (as a Bangladesh player or format in general) we should not overhype the individual accomplishments.
The only important stats to monitor should be a Win or a Draw, ability to take 20 wickets, being in a comfortable situation to declare , batting out to force a draw or something to that effect.
|
While I wouldn't be shocked if Bangladesh won a Test in this series, it would still be an understatement to say that WI are favored. They're quite heavily favored. Draws these days are rarer due to the aggressive nature of batting. How often do teams actually bat out 450 overs without some weather involvement or on a pitch that isn't a sheet of paper?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to win or being aggressive or not tolerating anything less than the best. But to expect a team with as dismal a record as ours to magically start winning Tests means is actually not helpful.
I'm not so stupid as to not realize that the object of playing the game is to win. But being all gung-ho about it is no more intelligent than GW Bush's "bring it on" comments. There really isn't much to say if someone refuses to understand that multiple incremental improvements = one big improvement. And to be really frank, its also annoying.
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team
#OneTeam1Dream
|
November 12, 2012, 09:43 PM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: March 26, 2007
Favorite Player: Bangladesh Team
Posts: 18,761
|
|
I think what Raynman is saying is instead of counting individual performances, we should be monitoring team performance indicators. Such as:
1. Wins
2. Draws
3. Overs Batted as a team
4. Wickets taken as a team in test match
5. Avg Runs scored per match/Per innings
6. First innings leads/avg scores
7. First innings Wickets taken/Runs conceded.
8. 2nd innings avg scores and Runs conceded
9. Winning Margins.
10. Losing margins
11. Records Brocken .. Partnerships and HS etc
12. Declared innings
13. Match taken to the last session etc
Etc etc should be the focus instead of counting individual performances ... As those are too macro to understand any real progress of the team in test cricket. Instead of the team, we start actually do more focus on players. I do agree with him, if this is the idea...infant we got into this bad habit during JS...he used to bring out these stats to justify progress...we had a lot of debates on it as well,
But particularly in this thread, team achievement should be the only indicators, rather than individual records...that won't indicate the real progress in test cricket as the thread heading says...
Your OP is ok, but may be we can widen it a little more relating to Match outcomes to understand the true, progress.
|
November 12, 2012, 09:48 PM
|
|
Cricket Savant
|
|
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 32,798
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
While I wouldn't be shocked if Bangladesh won a Test in this series, it would still be an understatement to say that WI are favored. They're quite heavily favored. Draws these days are rarer due to the aggressive nature of batting. How often do teams actually bat out 450 overs without some weather involvement or on a pitch that isn't a sheet of paper?....
|
Just a thought Australia was heavy, I mean, mega ultra heavy favorite with Ponting and Co.
They play as a team we win.
Back!!
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Gandhi.
|
November 12, 2012, 09:52 PM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 24,918
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
I think what Raynman is saying is instead of counting individual performances, we should be monitoring team performance indicators. Such as:
|
It appears as though not everyone is on the same intellectual plane as me
I'll try once again. Why not just look at the ICC rankings table then to look for improvement?
Why not dissect our rating points? 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.
Do you see the futility?
Instead focus on tangible and incremental things that lead to those zeros becoming 5s and the 5s becoming 20s and so on and so forth.
If you don't even know what to look for, how do you expect to find it?
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team
#OneTeam1Dream
|
November 12, 2012, 10:47 PM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,182
|
|
BanFan is spot on in his interpretation of my post.
Glorifying individual stats that are meaningless in team context will do more damage than good.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
|
November 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 24,918
|
|
After 1st Test:
Batting avg = 36.15
Bowling avg = 57.14
Ratio = 0.633
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team
#OneTeam1Dream
|
November 18, 2012, 02:48 AM
|
ODI Cricketer
|
|
Join Date: March 14, 2006
Favorite Player: Viv - he made all scared
Posts: 935
|
|
Jotoi kata chira koren jogfol "ekoi chame". They will fall harder everytime. We fans have better temperament than those losers. We have been taking the pain for a decade but come back strong everytime.
|
November 18, 2012, 07:46 AM
|
|
Cricket Savant
|
|
Join Date: February 20, 2008
Favorite Player: Tam,Sak,Nasa,Mash
Posts: 25,325
|
|
battingwise we improving.
after eleven minths we managed a 556 is brilliant.
yesterdays collapse was due to lack of experience of such situations,dont think we ever had such an easy target to beat a good side in test.
but nevertheless we.need to make sure we bat well in both innings.
and hopefully xith the inclusion of Elias we better get twenty wckts.
Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)
|
November 18, 2012, 08:21 AM
|
|
BanglaCricket Staff BC - Bangladesh Representative
|
|
Join Date: February 28, 2005
Location: Here
Favorite Player: Father of BD Cricket
Posts: 20,540
|
|
Improvement after 1st test ??
Well, we have prolonged the defeat.
Instead of losing within 3 days, we have manage to lose on the final session of final day.
Unless we win, we haven't progressed. But from the performance of the last test, if we can hold on to this, win will not be too far away.
__________________
Verily, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest [Al-Qur'an,13:28]
|
November 18, 2012, 08:30 AM
|
|
Test Cricketer
|
|
Join Date: March 2, 2012
Location: Haowa Bhaban
Favorite Player: Any smart *** spot fixers
Posts: 1,591
|
|
We are definitely improving. Compairing last series against Pakistan, this is far better performance. I must say, having dull wicket trick worked out well for us and managed to put us in situation where we were ahead of the oposition before 4th innings. No matter what, from here I dont like to see any innings defeat in comming times.
|
November 18, 2012, 09:20 AM
|
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: January 18, 2008
Location: 23.71 N, 90.40 E
Favorite Player: Shakib, AB De, Amla
Posts: 5,187
|
|
1-0-0-1. Enough said.
__________________
"And be true to every promise- for, verily you will be called to account for every promise which you have made." - [Al Qur'an - 17:34]
|
November 18, 2012, 10:50 AM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: All Bangladeshi players
Posts: 5,979
|
|
Good thread Al Furkan vai. So bowling is a big issue no doubt. But another thing is to mitigate the weakness of batting normaly we play with 8 batsman and 4 bowlers. I think we need to be more aggressive. We can play with 5 bowlers like W I.
|
November 18, 2012, 10:58 AM
|
Cricket Legend
|
|
Join Date: May 30, 2012
Favorite Player: Abul
Posts: 3,412
|
|
There is no progress. After all this, all these talks about taking the game to 5th day on our home turf shows the negative mindset and not believing our own ability. As long as there is no believe, we won't achieve.
|
November 18, 2012, 12:16 PM
|
|
BD-SL Test Fantasy Winner 2017
|
|
Join Date: November 2, 2009
Favorite Player: Suhrawadi Shuvo
Posts: 5,167
|
|
Scored the most runs in a match 723, breaking our previous record of 704. Also lasted the 3rd highest number of overs in an innings.
|
November 25, 2012, 02:44 AM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 24,918
|
|
after the 2 Test series:
Batting average = 34.93
Bowling average = 64.26
ratio = 0.544
We we marginally less competitive this series than we have been since 2010 and somewhat better than when we first started playing Tests.
__________________
Bangladesh: Our Dream, Our Joy, Our Team
#OneTeam1Dream
|
November 25, 2012, 03:00 AM
|
|
MLC World Series I
|
|
Join Date: April 11, 2011
Posts: 5,909
|
|
Need to push the batting averahe to 40s and pull the bowling average down to late 40s or 50s
|
November 25, 2012, 03:22 AM
|
|
Cricket Sage
|
|
Join Date: March 26, 2007
Favorite Player: Bangladesh Team
Posts: 18,761
|
|
What I Care is....
A. we lost series 2-0
B. Took both test matches to 5th day
C. Margin of defeat: 77 Runs and 10 Wkts
Improvement from last series??
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:41 PM.
|
|