Let's discuss Universal Basic Income!

[bujhee kom]

My old Imam at the Shiddheshwari Masjid, back in the 70's, during Jumma prayer(Friday mid-afternoon prayer) khutba (sermon) used to say, "Taka Phoisha Prosraber Fena...Eijey manush ei masjid-er pash diye hetey jai, during namaz time while the jamaat is being held inside, kintoo ei manoosh-era poishar pichoney chutey-dourai, aar Allah-er ibadat-ke bhuley jai, Allah-r ghor-ke paash katiye soley zai...Takhar phagool Manoosh tumra goosh khau, oi keyamoter din, Roje Hashor-er maidan-e tomader oi prosraab-er fena tomar pashey ashey darabey naa, tomar hoye shakkhi dibey naa, jokhon Duniya o Akheraat-er Chief Justice (referring to our Lord, Allah) tomakey proshno korbey...."Hey Insaan tumi Duniya-tey ki korecho, kibhabey katiyecho?" (May Allah forgive me for quoting Him with imaginary words, and also speaking His name in a post filled with inappropriate words).

[shoibboshach]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Whooo! Let's bring a baby to world. Who cares if it starves or suffers from polio!!

Perhaps, the greatest multiversal crime was committed only when the parents of a certain Zeeshan 'decided' to work to bring a child to this existence to further over-populate, pollute and bring about an early multiversal destruction than what the Creator willed?

You're right...only a Nazi Eugenics Pogrom will turn this lower-world into an utopia.

[Jadukor]

Bancricfan alert

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by shoibboshach
Perhaps, the greatest multiversal crime was committed only when the parents of a certain Zeeshan 'decided' to work to bring a child to this existence to further over-populate, pollute and bring about an early multiversal destruction than what the Creator willed?

You're right...only a Nazi Eugenics Pogrom will turn this lower-world into an utopia.

My parents weren't piss poor like yours. Do you even understand what context means? Why do we even have birth control? Why do people don't start sprouting their genes for 20-30 family members? Times have changed. Sometimes emotions need to be in control or else it clouds judgment.

Anyway, an interesting sidenote is we will actually be looking at Population Implosion -underpopulation that is- by 2026. I think that was really interesting because most people only talk of overpopulation.

http://www.science20.com/news_articl...plosion-108334

[SportingBD]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
My parents weren't piss poor like yours. Do you even understand what context means? Why do we even have birth control? Why do people don't start sprouting their genes for 20-30 family members? Times have changed. Sometimes emotions need to be in control or else it clouds judgment.

Anyway, an interesting sidenote is we will actually be looking at Population Implosion -underpopulation that is- by 2026. I think that was really interesting because most people only talk of overpopulation.

http://www.science20.com/news_articl...plosion-108334

That article and its prediction may be correct.

You have to divide it by developing countries vs developed countries.

In developed countries, women are now less interested in having more than two children, most prefer to have one. There seems to be many different factors as to why - you see many of those women are financially capable of having as many children as they want, but they prefer not to. Why they decide to have one children or even two is up to them, but most seem to be sticking with maximum of two. Here it's not a issue of being rich or poor, rather it's a issue of choice.

In developing countries, women have more children compared to developed countries, once again many different factors. Amongst them include the "hope factor", the factor of "many" means a collective effort to work together and have a better chance of decent livelihood. It is the decision of the parents - how they want or feel.

BUT, unlike the rich people or rich women their "choice" and freedom to make "own decision" is being taken over by governments. You see many of those developing countries, take the recent China example "one child policy" has taken away the right of those women/parents. In the name of controlling population, many of those developing countries in the future may restrict women/parents from freely deciding how many children's they want.

Is this fair? To me every human soul should be free to make their own decision, and no one, if you are rich or poor should put a restriction on peoples livelihood or personal decisions. Today, the government restricts poor women's or those in developing countries from having children citing "controlling population" tomorrow it maybe something else? citing something else to restrict those people. People should be free to chose what they want in their own life, and taking away their right to have or decide how many children they want doesn't look right or sound right.

Both these may lead to population rate dropping, especially if more countries decide to put restriction to peoples choice and own freedom to decide. Hence, the article maybe correct.

[Zeeshan]

Good post Sporting BD. And I absolutely agree with you, esp. your last point.

[Shadow]

Control population and focus on Kaitiakitanga.

[shoibboshach]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
My parents weren't piss poor like yours. Do you even understand what context means?

Hard to believe a guy who could hardly put together a couple of simple sentences in spoken English will get all teachy and cocky behind a keyboard. I have, indeed, had the utter misfortune of stumbling upon that most cringeworthy video you have put out somewhere here on this forum. It gave me the creeps beyond all belief. To be frank, not only could you hardly express yourself in the English tongue but your whole body language and general demeanour was almost scary. Something seems very amiss somewhere. Perhaps, you need to ease off on that all uber western attitude and let it come to you naturally -in due course of time. You seem to be trying too hard to fit in without much success. I should imagine it could be very frustrating for you. Lets not try to be whiter than white nor more loyal than the king. An utter waste of energy and time. Just take it easy.

Let me clarify, as you might not be totally familiar with all things western, my previous post to you was a mere BANTER -blended with heavy doses of sarcasm and irony. Sorry if it was wasted on you.

Yes, my parents are rather relatively poor and I am not at all bothered or disturbed about it. Most people are poor on this planet. But, I would have been most disturbed had I turned out to be like you, though.

Sorry, you're saying something about context...

[mufi_02]

Zee brings a valid point about population control. We can disagree with him but shouldn't attack him personally for it (such as bringing parents into discussion).

I also believe there should be awareness about population and birth control. Take BD for example. Pre 1971, our birth rate was astronomically high. Through decades of education, it has now decreased to a manageable rate. While India and especially Pak remained very high and they are struggling to cope with it both socially and economically. Yes, it is the choice of the parents and government shouldn't enforce or dictate child policy. But at the very least, they should educate the masses and then let them decide.

And to original point - I don't agree with Universal Income for western countries. Each country is very different. US is very different than EU which is also very different from Asia/Africa. It might work in developing countries and bring out masses from poverty. But it is not appropriate for US. There are plenty of opportunities available here to climb up the ladder.

[SportingBD]

But at the very least, they should educate the masses and then let them decide.

Totally agree on this.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by shoibboshach
Hard to believe a guy who could hardly put together a couple of simple sentences in spoken English will get all teachy and cocky behind a keyboard. I have, indeed, had the utter misfortune of stumbling upon that most cringeworthy video you have put out somewhere here on this forum. It gave me the creeps beyond all belief. To be frank, not only could you hardly express yourself in the English tongue but your whole body language and general demeanour was almost scary. Something seems very amiss somewhere. Perhaps, you need to ease off on that all uber western attitude and let it come to you naturally -in due course of time. You seem to be trying too hard to fit in without much success. I should imagine it could be very frustrating for you. Lets not try to be whiter than white nor more loyal than the king. An utter waste of energy and time. Just take it easy.

Let me clarify, as you might not be totally familiar with all things western, my previous post to you was a mere BANTER -blended with heavy doses of sarcasm and irony. Sorry if it was wasted on you.

Yes, my parents are rather relatively poor and I am not at all bothered or disturbed about it. Most people are poor on this planet. But, I would have been most disturbed had I turned out to be like you, though.

Sorry, you're saying something about context...

Looks like I have struck some serious chord, huh?

[Zeeshan]

I can't argue so let me pull up some other stupid **** from somewhere else and try to make point. Funny with all that utter vile, vitriolic and inflammatory nature of YOUR cringeworthy soul, you act as harbinger of peace and prophet.

That was such a disgusting post that it is absolute waste of breath and cyberbyte to argue with someone below the nature of a frikkin nematode. See two can play this ad hominem game...

Idiot, what made you think mine wasn't an effin banter you boor....

[Zeeshan]

If it wasn't Jadukor the problem with alias is the very deceptive and demonic nature. People have this uber-ultra zealous extremism and pseudo intellectual views that if he gets lambasted the moment another props up with the same uber-ultra zealous extremism and pseudo intellectual views it creates an illusion, albeit an uber deceptive one, that there are two of those. When only you have to worry about one nutjob in the world... suddenly it gives the impression that poor you only has one view whereas there are many like him others*.

Thank goodness the world has less of vermin like him.

*And don't even bring up language structure here. That was intentional you moron....unlike you who is slave to the language and can't create a scintilla or an ounce of originality rather parrot back what others have taught you.

[iDumb]

Zuckerberg is one of my favorite personality but I think all his talk about basic income is more to win popularity than anything. It's easy for tech billionaires to talk about ideal world... In an ideal world they wouldn't be billionaires.... Since most ppl on USA use facebook - I propose distributing portions of facebook ad revenue as part of their universal income.

There is technically universal income - it's called food stamp, section 8 etc... I also don't buy the notion that if you know you have "universal income" to fall back on - you would be more inclined to pursue your dream .... The true visionaries, the ones who are destined to be successful will be in spite of any hindrance financial or something else.

I am all for universal income if it does not come from taxing middle or upper middle class. Instead the money has to come from big corporations that fail to generate enough jobs in comparison to the money they make...

for example back in the days.... billion dollar companies use to employ 100s thousand ppl. Currently the tech companies that are worth billion employ only 10K ...

there are other better example but to illustrate the company that came to mind...
FORD has a market cap of 45 billion dollars but employs 200,000+ employees.
Facebook has a market cap of 450 billion (10 x bigger) but it employs less than 20K ppl (10x less)

FB ideally should be employing upwards of 2 million ppl..

And because of this discrepency , companies such as facebook and future companies who will take away jobs but massively profit should provide the funds for basic income.

Present this to zuck boy then see how he feels about it...

Rich guy is poor man's best friend when he doesn't have to give up any of his privileges.

[shoibboshach]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
I also believe there should be awareness about population and birth control. Take BD for example. Pre 1971, our birth rate was astronomically high. Through decades of education, it has now decreased to a manageable rate.

As a GENERAL rule, "birth control" or population control runs against the very spirit of Islam. Human is the best of creation of the Supreme Creator Al-Khaaliq. Man is the custodian of this planet. Allah also declares that he has ennobled the children of Adam (human). Therefore, how could we have become so dumb to shoot at our own feet or have this stupid audacity to interfere with His creative act or will?. God is also the provider Ar -Razzaq. So, He is both the Khaaliq and Raaziq. Lest we forget, he warns us, “...kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them” (Quran 6:151).

He not only provides for us human but also those fly in the sky, swim in the sea, reign in the wild and other creations we don't know of. Have you ever heard of the Sparrows, the Sardines or the Rabbits being on the pills or devising an elaborative family planning policy and adhering to it? Are they dying exclusively because of hunger and over-population? If God the Creator can ensure that life exist solely in this planet, he can also provide for them and sustain them in a way we are not capable of fully understanding. He sets up checks and balances. He creates, He destroys. He resurrects. He does what He wills. He is All-knowing -the Most Wise.

Population was never a bane until the Godless post-modern man entered the scene who even finds his own parents to be burdensome. It has always been a blessing -be it economically, politically, sociologically or otherwise. Read closely what man have achieved and built collectively -without any post-modern technology or know-how. One can only marvel at them. The prophet of Islam Hadjrat Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallama wa tasleemah) understood the real essence and the cosmological rank, importance and purpose of man. Hence, he encouraged us to marry and have MANY children so that he may be proud of the sheer size of his community. And, his community (ummah) is not only limited to the muslim. He was sent as a mercy to all mankind.

Only the Satanists (Hizb-us-shaitan) are in the business of population control, depopulation or the culling of the population through war, drugs, vaccines, viruses, contraception, pills or removal of the uterus -because of their perverted obsession for darkness and anti-human agenda. Satan does blame Man (Adam) for his fall from Grace and he is his mortal enemy. Man might forget or overlook this but Satan does not. On the other hand, the Believers are in constant awe of God's creative energy and creations and proclaims, "our Lord, you have not created this in vain!".

I also believe there should be awareness AGAINST population and birth control. How pills and other contraception effects millions of women all over the world hormonologically, physiologically and psychologically. And, how it is related to big pharma-industry, eugenics and demography politics.

[iDumb]

^^ LOL interesting post.

You are right in the sense that minus techonology God would take care of its people. The population control would be through spread of disease - so an equilibrium is maintained and resources are abundant. And hence it makes sense to have 10 children because 8 would be dead before age 40.

But technology changed all that... so we have be to be creative now and can't rely on God alone.
Allah bhaat o dibe abar spanish flu o dibe....

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by shoibboshach
As a GENERAL rule, "birth control" or population control runs against the very spirit of Islam. Human is the best of creation of the Supreme Creator Al-Khaaliq. Man is the custodian of this planet. Allah also declares that he has ennobled the children of Adam (human). Therefore, how could we have become so dumb to shoot at our own feet or have this stupid audacity to interfere with His creative act or will?. God is also the provider Ar -Razzaq. So, He is both the Khaaliq and Raaziq. Lest we forget, he warns us, “...kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them” (Quran 6:151).

He not only provides for us human but also those fly in the sky, swim in the sea, reign in the wild and other creations we don't know of. Have you ever heard of the Sparrows, the Sardines or the Rabbits being on the pills or devising an elaborative family planning policy and adhering to it? Are they dying exclusively because of hunger and over-population? If God the Creator can ensure that life exist solely in this planet, he can also provide for them and sustain them in a way we are not capable of fully understanding. He sets up checks and balances. He creates, He destroys. He resurrects. He does what He wills. He is All-knowing -the Most Wise.

Population was never a bane until the Godless post-modern man entered the scene who even finds his own parents to be burdensome. It has always been a blessing -be it economically, politically, sociologically or otherwise. Read closely what man have achieved and built collectively -without any post-modern technology or know-how. One can only marvel at them. The prophet of Islam Hadjrat Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallama wa tasleemah) understood the real essence and the cosmological rank, importance and purpose of man. Hence, he encouraged us to marry and have MANY children so that he may be proud of the sheer size of his community. And, his community (ummah) is not only limited to the muslim. He was sent as a mercy to all mankind.

Only the Satanists (Hizb-us-shaitan) are in the business of population control, depopulation or the culling of the population through war, drugs, vaccines, viruses, contraception, pills or removal of the uterus -because of their perverted obsession for darkness and anti-human agenda. Satan does blame Man (Adam) for his fall from Grace and he is his mortal enemy. Man might forget or overlook this but Satan does not. On the other hand, the Believers are in constant awe of God's creative energy and creations and proclaims, "our Lord, you have not created this in vain!".

I also believe there should be awareness AGAINST population and birth control. How pills and other contraception effects millions of women all over the world hormonologically, physiologically and psychologically. And, how it is related to big pharma-industry, eugenics and demography politics.

Yes Allah provides for all the creatures. But at the same time we are responsible for our actions. If I know I can't provide for more than "x" number of kids then I shouldn't just breed like rabbits. Because it is the duty of parents. No not duty. It is absolute mandatory for the parents to provide for their children.

In the same vein, I can't just quit working and sit on the couch all day - expecting that Allah will provide. Allah has given us intelligence which was not given to any other creature. employment/business was not made haram. Many of the sahabas including Abu Bakr/Uthman were well to do merchants.

That's why I don't agree that you can sit at home and not do anything to change your life and only expect divine decree.

How many kids do we see in Dhaka sleeping by the roads and on sidewalks? Kids going around begging for money? Kids being abused/drugged and manipulated by the most heinous people. This SHOULD more than bother us. This should change us.

But we are more worried about global consipiracies and eugenics program. Not everything in life is controlled or western powers and there is no "hidden" agenda. It's just a lame excuse to blame for our gross misfortunes.

[mufi_02]

Finally, Tumi kono kaj kam korba nah. Sharadin bou er pichone pichone ghurba. Pukur er pashe, taal gach er niche, bash jharer konay, goal ghorer bhitore bou er shari taan diba, daily foshti noshti korba ar bochor bochor baccha poida korba ar bolba oh Allah khawabe...sheita toh hobe nah.

Now there is no global conspiracy to make Rahim miya like this. He is just plain horny. Lungir moddhe ek hath shob shomoy diye rakhe. Uttejonay eishob kaj kore fele ar bole thik ase 10 mash por dekha jabe. Tokhon hoito ekta chakri khujbo or ekta dokan dibo. Kintu dui din por abar shei obostha. We have all been there. We have all been Rahims one time or another.

[shoibboshach]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
I can't argue so let me pull up some other stupid **** from somewhere else and try to make point. Funny with all that utter vile, vitriolic and inflammatory nature of YOUR cringeworthy soul, you act as harbinger of peace and prophet.

That was such a disgusting post that it is absolute waste of breath and cyberbyte to argue with someone below the nature of a frikkin nematode. See two can play this ad hominem game...

Idiot, what made you think mine wasn't an effin banter you boor....

I know ONLY an emotionally imbalanced person with serious psychological issues can lash out in a manner you did above. Perhaps, you don't get out much, have/had no real life friends, stay in a hole 24/7 and memorise the dictionary...yes, dictionary -falsely hoping to impress people with utter banality? You clearly lack substance. Perhaps, you're bullied at school and never recovered from that? Therefore, your only escape or refuse is the cyber world and your staggering post counts here is a fair indication. You're constantly crying out for attention like an over-grown child and craving acceptance. You also exhibit many psychopathic tendencies.

Hence, you dabble with transcendental meditation to attain some sort of peace only with no success. Your rant above bares witness to this.

I say, quit being such a banal, shallow, pretentious, schizophrenic twit and seek help. Please, let me know if I have hit the right areas.

[shoibboshach]

Originally Posted by iDumb
^^ LOL interesting post.

You are right in the sense that minus techonology God would take care of its people. The population control would be through spread of disease - so an equilibrium is maintained and resources are abundant. And hence it makes sense to have 10 children because 8 would be dead before age 40.

But technology changed all that... so we have be to be creative now and can't rely on God alone.
Allah bhaat o dibe abar spanish flu o dibe....

I usually don't engage with people begin their statement with LOL, LMAO etc . I associate them with juveniles or imbeciles. Despite you're nick I'll give you the benefit of doubt this time.

Your simpleton like over simplification of my post is analogous to that of an Islamophope who reduces Islam to "killing the infidels and sleeping with 72 virgins in Paradise". For any future dialogue please let me know whether you would like to approach the subject matter in light of theology or modern social sciences or the both.

[shoibboshach]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
Finally, Tumi kono kaj kam korba nah. Sharadin bou er pichone pichone ghurba. Pukur er pashe, taal gach er niche, bash jharer konay, goal ghorer bhitore bou er shari taan diba, daily foshti noshti korba ar bochor bochor baccha poida korba ar bolba oh Allah khawabe...sheita toh hobe nah.

Now there is no global conspiracy to make Rahim miya like this. He is just plain horny. Lungir moddhe ek hath shob shomoy diye rakhe. Uttejonay eishob kaj kore fele ar bole thik ase 10 mash por dekha jabe. Tokhon hoito ekta chakri khujbo or ekta dokan dibo. Kintu dui din por abar shei obostha. We have all been there. We have all been Rahims one time or another.

Goodness gracious me, what are you chatting about! Are you talking all this from personal experience? If you're indeed a 24/7 horny Mufi that's very good news for you and your spouse. Count yourself very lucky. Even hydraulics won't work on many modern men. Hence, the Viagra sellers are making a killing on ebays and amazons. Also, the sperm counts of modern men is declining rapidly. Don't divulge your little secret to the ladies otherwise you will be mobbed by them and die a premature death from a stampede. You are a regular modern day Don Juan, bro.

[shoibboshach]

SportingBD,

I know what you mean but I have very little sympathy or compassion for psychopathic nonentities. You need to point out who they are. Specially, if they are repeat offenders. Never claimed to be a prophet or a sage.

Of course, you might say they are decent people but could be the victims of some sort of MK-Ultra mind control programmes then its a different matter. May Allah help them to break free!

[SportingBD]

By the morning brightness and [by] the night when it covers with darkness,
Your Lord has not taken leave of you, [O Muhammad], nor has He detested [you].
And the Hereafter is better for you than the first [life].
And your Lord is going to give you, and you will be satisfied.
Did He not find you an orphan and give [you] refuge?
And He found you lost and guided [you],
And He found you poor and made [you] self-sufficient.
So as for the orphan, do not oppress [him].
And as for the petitioner, do not repel [him].

https://quran.com/93 (last verse is missing I think)

Full translation and audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICgxYb1X9I0

[SportingBD]

^The last 6 lines are soo emotional. How God has made an orphan into the greatest prophet, ever. It was hard to ever believe that*, especially as he (PBUH) was a orphan.

This Surah just shows, how God can make you great irrespective if you are poor, orphan etc..

*Pretty sure no-one thought he would go on to become a prophet with billion+ followers that time. Amazing example of how poor can achieve amazing things, it just shows no-one knows the future except Allah.
---

@Shoaibboshach sorry to see you go, but I'm 100% confident that they are not victim of MK-Ultra mind control programmes, I have seen them post here for many years, and they don't come across as what you mention.
---

[mufi_02]

What is MK ULTRA? Btw thr thread was not intended for theology discussion but somehow it just ended up being one.

High five zee!! Eto rag kore nah. Chole asho