Tiger Squad for Upcoming SA Series (Your Opinion)

[Rinathq]

I have had enough of this youth movement crap. Anamul, Jubair, Soumya, Shabbir, Taskin (to an extent) are all living proofs that this accelerated youth movement doesnt do jack **** in test cricket. its the toughest format for crying sakes. It requires experience along with talent. These guys are fine in shorter formats where talent alone can spark some performances. But in test cricket, it doesnt do jack... Also it doesn't help these players either! You think you are giving them chances to develop? What good has it done to Jubair Hossain? Brought in without experience and now discarded from domestic sides. What good has it done to players like Soumya, Shabbir who are as clueless as a blind man about how to fix their ****.

Haturi did it with Shanto in New Zealand, and now he may do it with Saifuddin. He doesnt get it, BCB doesnt get it, you guys dont get it.... If this technique worked, BCCI, ECB, CA and others wouldn't spend a fortune developing and maintaining Domestic cricket and funding A tours. You develop players through years of domestic cricket and Academy cricket.... You dont suddenly send them on the toughest mission after a mere one season of domestic cricket.

Love how u guys hate BCB's lack of interest in organizing A tours and improving domestic cricket and then u guys want fresh inexperienced prospect in the national setup without proper experience. Whats the difference?

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Mosaddek will not last an over against, the pace trio of Morkel, Rabada and Philander, in a fast seaming track.

And u think Saifuddin will last in front of Amla and co in their den? makes sense

[DinRaat.]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
And u think Saifuddin will last in front of Amla and co in their den? makes sense

I never wanted Saifuddin in the side, that honor belonged to Gowza. Abu Jayed Rahi, can do well in SA

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Yes that is true, its better to let young guns get acclimatised to the conditions so we can phase guys like Riyadh, Mushfiq and Tamim out in the future.

Quoting what u said... if you deny that this does not indicate giving a chance to young players like Saifuddin then the conversation stops

[Jadukor]

gotta mark the date in my calender. I agree with Rinathq on this lol

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
Quoting what u said... if you deny that this does not indicate giving a chance to young players like Saifuddin then the conversation stops

this is what you expect when someone started following BD cricket just 3 years ago where his first memory with shakib is shakib showing his balls to the camera

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
One of us havent seen Saifuddin then and I would gladly be the one. But from the limited i have seen of him, he has the "potential" to be a good swing bowler. He hasnt shown any signs of a matured swing bowler. The seamers u mentioned all passed their short test career on conditions that were totally unhelpful to them. its only now we are starting to see result pitches in BD. I think someone like Shahid, Roy who has bowled a lot of overs in domestics and international, far better candidates to take that 3rd seamer role then Saifuddin. Saifuddin does not have enough experience to play in unknown conditions against one of the top sides in the world. You can disagree all you want but in the end, its fact that he is inexperienced. I think we are all seeing of what inexperience does....

All of them bar rubel are inexperienced, fact. Unless you're talking FC cricket which in BD is almost useless due to the quality.

[Gowza]

Fizz and mehedi are doing fine as youngsters, mominul was given chances young.

All of the successful stalwarts of the team started young. Mushy, tamim, shakib...

In a different thread I listed a long list of quality fast bowlers who debuted under the age of 23/22.

Great players often start young. Besides that the youth is better than the so called experienced players so pick worse players if you want but it's not going to help the team in the short term or long term.

Riyad, imrul are maybe the only two experienced players who could make a difference, if they turn up but none of the fast bowlers who are supposedly experienced when in reality they are inexperienced will do a better job than the top youngsters coming through. Saifuddin like mehedi can be an integral part of this team on multiple fronts.

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
gotta mark the date in my calender. I agree with Ranithq on this lol

yea spell my name wrong now...

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by Gowza
All of them bar rubel are inexperienced, fact. Unless you're talking FC cricket which in BD is almost useless due to the quality.

its the same FC records that u are using to partially defend for bringing Saifuddin. Ironic isnt it? ... and I hope I dont have to quote u on that...

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by Gowza
Fizz and mehedi are doing fine as youngsters, mominul was given chances young.

All of the successful stalwarts of the team started young. Mushy, tamim, shakib...

In a different thread I listed a long list of quality fast bowlers who debuted under the age of 23/22.

Great players often start young. Besides that the youth is better than the so called experienced players so pick worse players if you want but it's not going to help the team in the short term or long term.

Riyad, imrul are maybe the only two experienced players who could make a difference, if they turn up but none of the fast bowlers who are supposedly experienced when in reality they are inexperienced will do a better job than the top youngsters coming through. Saifuddin like mehedi can be an integral part of this team on multiple fronts.

Fizz=Yes
Mehedi= Partially yes
Mominul= NO. He played significantly more domestic cricket then Saifuddin before getting a debut.

And I gave u more then twice the examples u gave me... I wonder who wins

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
yea spell my name wrong now...

my bad. corrected

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
Fizz=Yes
Mehedi= Partially yes
Mominul= NO. He played significantly more domestic cricket then Saifuddin before getting a debut.

And I gave u more then twice the examples u gave me... I wonder who wins

Yes I wonder....

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
Fizz and mehedi are doing fine as youngsters, mominul was given chances young.

All of the successful stalwarts of the team started young. Mushy, tamim, shakib...

In a different thread I listed a long list of quality fast bowlers who debuted under the age of 23/22.

Great players often start young. Besides that the youth is better than the so called experienced players so pick worse players if you want but it's not going to help the team in the short term or long term.

Riyad, imrul are maybe the only two experienced players who could make a difference, if they turn up but none of the fast bowlers who are supposedly experienced when in reality they are inexperienced will do a better job than the top youngsters coming through. Saifuddin like mehedi can be an integral part of this team on multiple fronts.

Mustafizur... He had a career changing injury and he's 21 years old, hes had to start again, no one in their right minds can argue that it wasn't too early for him, but again he didn't get much test cricket bowling early on

Mehedi, he's a spinner, fast bowler and spinner are different

Mominul was experienced domestic player and not a teenager and he's a batsman

Tamim and mushfiq were not fast bowlers and tamim suffered many injuries

Shakib again a spinner, but also he's special, once in a generation player, but even Shakib had severe injuries to his leg by the time he was 25 which has affected his career

A bowling line up of, Mustafizur taskin roy

Or mustafizur Roy Shahid, or combination of those 4 are all very choices than Saifuddin, Al Amin is a very choice than Saifuddin

Mustafizur just about looks ready now, taskin only looked ready this year

You did give some examples, and when I picked holes in that argument, you didn't reply, so keep picking few ATGs across decade's to 'prove' your point, to rely on exceptional players to risk a player to a career threatening injury is flawed logic

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
I have had enough of this youth movement crap. Anamul, Jubair, Soumya, Shabbir, Taskin (to an extent) are all living proofs that this accelerated youth movement doesnt do jack **** in test cricket. its the toughest format for crying sakes. It requires experience along with talent. These guys are fine in shorter formats where talent alone can spark some performances. But in test cricket, it doesnt do jack... Also it doesn't help these players either! You think you are giving them chances to develop? What good has it done to Jubair Hossain? Brought in without experience and now discarded from domestic sides. What good has it done to players like Soumya, Shabbir who are as clueless as a blind man about how to fix their ****.

Haturi did it with Shanto in New Zealand, and now he may do it with Saifuddin. He doesnt get it, BCB doesnt get it, you guys dont get it.... If this technique worked, BCCI, ECB, CA and others wouldn't spend a fortune developing and maintaining Domestic cricket and funding A tours. You develop players through years of domestic cricket and Academy cricket.... You dont suddenly send them on the toughest mission after a mere one season of domestic cricket.

Love how u guys hate BCB's lack of interest in organizing A tours and improving domestic cricket and then u guys want fresh inexperienced prospect in the national setup without proper experience. Whats the difference?

It's just not ability, it's physically underdeveloped pacers being pushed into the side, if we had common sense, mashrafe and Talha would have taken us to where we are now at the start of the decade with Shakib tamim and mushfiq

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
Mustafizur... He had a career changing injury and he's 21 years old, hes had to start again, no one in their right minds can argue that it wasn't too early for him, but again he didn't get much test cricket bowling early on

Mehedi, he's a spinner, fast bowler and spinner are different

Mominul was experienced domestic player and not a teenager and he's a batsman

Tamim and mushfiq were not fast bowlers and tamim suffered many injuries

Shakib again a spinner, but also he's special, once in a generation player, but even Shakib had severe injuries to his leg by the time he was 25 which has affected his career

A bowling line up of, Mustafizur taskin roy

Or mustafizur Roy Shahid, or combination of those 4 are all very choices than Saifuddin, Al Amin is a very choice than Saifuddin

Mustafizur just about looks ready now, taskin only looked ready this year

You did give some examples, and when I picked holes in that argument, you didn't reply, so keep picking few ATGs across decade's to 'prove' your point, to rely on exceptional players to risk a player to a career threatening injury is flawed logic

Pretty sure if you check the thread you're the one who stopped replying, besides I had no reason to argue, I gave many many examples, guess you don't consider them valid because they argue against your point and prove my point correct.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
It's just not ability, it's physically underdeveloped pacers being pushed into the side, if we had common sense, mashrafe and Talha would have taken us to where we are now at the start of the decade with Shakib tamim and mushfiq

Saifuddin is not physically underdeveloped.

[Gowza]

Saifuddin is playing more FC cricket than Roy and shahid, shahid including his tests has played 41 matches and Roy 55, they are both 28. Saifuddin has played 23 and is 20 turning 21.

So shahid has played 18 more FC matches in just 7/8 years. Who's body will be more used to consistent workload?

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
Pretty sure if you check the thread you're the one who stopped replying, besides I had no reason to argue, I gave many many examples, guess you don't consider them valid because they argue against your point and prove my point correct.

I only checked for few days, then page disappeared from page 1,i didn't bother looking it up again

I don't consider them valid, because you're spanning decades to select a handful of exceptionally talented players

Only exceptional talents overcome early career setbacks

To use your examples

Wasim suffered severe groin injuries he overcame

Waqar suffered severe back injury he overcame

Steyn was undercooked, so got put back on the shelf for couple of years

Mustafizur suffered severe shoulder injury and has shown glimpses of overcoming if

Mashrafe overcame injuries enough to have a odi career, but no test cricket

Talha... No career

They're exceptions to the rule, not the rule

It takes basic understanding to realise athletes are not fully developed at a young age, look at taskin, he went from bulky to slim, to bulky, now finally has settled down, Saifuddin still has baby fat on him

Just not cricket look at Rashford, he's been injury plauged because his body is still developing, when your body is still changing, your are not stable enough to carry out the heavier duties of sports

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
Saifuddin is playing more FC cricket than Roy and shahid, shahid including his tests has played 41 matches and Roy 55, they are both 28. Saifuddin has played 23 and is 20 turning 21.

So shahid has played 18 more FC matches in just 7/8 years. Who's body will be more used to consistent workload?

How old are you?

Just out of interest, because anyone who's gone through changes realises your body is much stronger at 28 than 20, it's stronger at 23 vs 20

Not everyone's body is the same and some will develop quicker than others, Saifuddin might be fine, but might not be, taking a 50/50 chance with a talented player for the future is ridiculous

And you can go at a certain intensity in first class cricket that you can't do in tests

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
I only checked for few days, then page disappeared from page 1,i didn't bother looking it up again

I don't consider them valid, because you're spanning decades to select a handful of exceptionally talented players

Only exceptional talents overcome early career setbacks

To use your examples

Wasim suffered severe groin injuries he overcame

Waqar suffered severe back injury he overcame

Steyn was undercooked, so got put back on the shelf for couple of years

Mustafizur suffered severe shoulder injury and has shown glimpses of overcoming if

Mashrafe overcame injuries enough to have a odi career, but no test cricket

Talha... No career

They're exceptions to the rule, not the rule

It takes basic understanding to realise athletes are not fully developed at a young age, look at taskin, he went from bulky to slim, to bulky, now finally has settled down, Saifuddin still has baby fat on him

Just not cricket look at Rashford, he's been injury plauged because his body is still developing, when your body is still changing, your are not stable enough to carry out the heavier duties of sports

I came up with a lot more than a handful of exceptional talents, I listed probably close to 20 names, maybe more.

As far as basic knowledge I'm a qualified personal trainer and have been in the industry for close to 15 years.

All fast bowlers will get injured whether they start late or not, it's part and parcel of being a fast bowler, in fact it's not just fast bowlers, most athletes have periods of injury.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Gowza
I came up with a lot more than a handful of exceptional talents, I listed probably close to 20 names, maybe more.

As far as basic knowledge I'm a qualified personal trainer and have been in the industry for close to 15 years.

All fast bowlers will get injured whether they start late or not, it's part and parcel of being a fast bowler, in fact it's not just fast bowlers, most athletes have periods of injury.

You spanned decades to come up with those names

Fast bowlers do get injured in particular because of workload and the reason why younger players need more protection is because they're more susceptible to those injuries, it is a known fact your body takes more injuries when it's unstable and it's unstable when you are still growing and guess who's growing, yes young fast bowlers

Why do you think teams around the world wait till a fast bowler is 22/23 before putting him in the team?

You think bangladeshi players are different? You think all those players who have had severe injuries should not be taken into consideration?

A player getting injured 2 years into his test career at age of 27 will not have his growth stunted like it would for a 21 year old 1 year into his career, that's just plain obvious

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by tiger1000
You spanned decades to come up with those names

Fast bowlers do get injured in particular because of workload and the reason why younger players need more protection is because they're more susceptible to those injuries, it is a known fact your body takes more injuries when it's unstable and it's unstable when you are still growing and guess who's growing, yes young fast bowlers

Why do you think teams around the world wait till a fast bowler is 22/23 before putting him in the team?

You think bangladeshi players are different? You think all those players who have had severe injuries should not be taken into consideration?

A player getting injured 2 years into his test career at age of 27 will not have his growth stunted like it would for a 21 year old 1 year into his career, that's just plain obvious

I mentioned players from across different eras to prove a point, fast bowlers have played from a young age in all eras. I also named about 10 or so from the last 15 years. Anderson, broad, morkel, southee, boult, sharma, Starc, Amir, Joseph, roach, rabada. 9 out of this 11 were 21 or younger on debut.

Some of these players are injury prone, others aren't. Broad and Anderson have played over 100 test matches, morkel 78. Rabada is less than 1 year older than saifuddin and has already played 20 test matches, is he constantly injured? He's only played 37 FC matches with 20 of them being tests so saifuddin has played more FC cricket than rabada did before his debut.

You don't have to agree with the debut of saifuddin that is fine, I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone, but I've backed it up and it is what it is. See this is why I don't post as much as I used to because nowadays if you disagree with someone you're going to be relentlessly argued with almost like an attack rather than offering different points of view and respecting each other.

[R0ssei]

BAN Test Squad against SA:

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Liton Das (wk)
3. Mominul Haque
4. Mushfiqur Rahim (c)
5. Nazmul Hossain Shanto
6. Shakib Al Hasan
7. Mosaddek Hossain
8. Md. Saifuddin
9. Mehedi Hasan
10. Taskin Ahmed
11. Mustafizur Rahman

Extra: Abu Haider Rony, Subhasish Roy/Md. Shahid, Sabbir Rahman

1. We cannot go on with Mushy as the keeper+ key middle-order batsman + captain in test anymore. It needs to stop, period. So, LKD will keep instead of him.
2. Imrul should be dropped from all formats. SS needs a break from test as well. Try LKD as an opener.
3. After so many failed attempts, I think both Sabbir and SS are LOI materials. And since I’m always open to new players, I will go with adding Shanto in the middle-order.
4. The LH and RH combo looks perfect in the batting order.
5. Although we will be playing in a fast-bouncy pitch, we would still need spinners for breakthroughs especially when SA batsmen are widely known not to play spin well. So, relying on Shakib alone would be a mistake. Hence, I would keep Miraz as he is RH.
6. Choosing Fizz, Taskin & Saifuddin as pace attack has an element of risk I know as they are all young and may easily tire themselves early and get injured in the process. I wouldn’t go with the same combo for the 2nd test as we will definitely need Fizz in ODI and T20’s. So, play Fizz in 1st test and Rony in 2nd test as the other LH seamer.
7. Saifuddin needs to play LOI first I guess. He may not be test material yet. He should play only 1 test if considered. Hence, we have work horses like Subhasish Roy or Md. Shahid (pick one).

[5tonne]

Originally Posted by Gowza
That's the problem with fans then, shouldn't be so harsh, depriving the player and BD cricket in the long run is not the answer. Plenty of young inexperienced players play away tours, it's how they learn.

Riyad isn't so great that he needs to be picked either, if we were talking about an experienced player with a great record then fair go but riyad's not got that.

What are you talking about? It's a very common practice to save youngsters from debuting against tough opponents so that they don't stumble in the beginning of their career. I can give you Australian examples for that. http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/...fec31982cc837d. Here an experienced Batsman like Phillip Hughes was not played against SA, the team who debuted against and played very well because by then his weakness against pace was well established. The selectors didn't want to destroy his confidence before bringing him back to the national side. And you are talking about fresh new blood.