BanglaCricket XI - Opening Batsmen - Page 3

BengaliPagol · #51 April 23, 2012, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
He reminds me of pre-Salahuddin Tamim Iqbal of the 2007 World Cup: aggression coupled with amazing hand-eye coordination. He, alongside Bijauy, Shoummo and Rumman has the ability to sight the ball early and take it to the opposition, though both Bijauy and Shoummo have better temperament and can switch gears with greater ease.

Unfortunately, dead domestic tracks and pathetic domestic bowlers who depend on batting error rather than quality delivery for wickets, create bad habits such as lazy to no footwork, disinterest in rotating the strike, premature commitment of the front foot, using a heavy bottom hand, and premeditated swings. Fazle Rabbi is no exception but I feel he is simply too good a player not to learn. Then again, there's always the possibility he won't hack it at the highest level the way Opi, Rokon, Hannan, Nafis Iqbal, KaEdge, Siddique and Aumi failed deliver at the top of the order.

BPL selection has more to do with whom you know and listen to than actual ability.

I try to write Bangla the way it sounds and avoid nonsensical Anglicization. I also stay away from the "vai" and "voot" khyatfest. Hence "Shoummo", "Bijauy", "Shubhagauto" etc

Whose Shoummo?

Sohel · #52 April 23, 2012, 12:57 AM

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...er/436677.html

Sohel · #53 April 23, 2012, 01:01 AM

A clear understanding of ability, and then witnessing that in the middle is more important than the use of decontextualized statistics to bolster weak arguments IMHO, when it comes to assessing who is likely to sustain success at the HIGHEST level in a TEST PLAYING Nation. Kohlimuddin and KaEdge fail on all fronts and will continue to harm the team with their inclusion in the future.

BengaliPagol · #54 April 23, 2012, 01:03 AM

^ Oh Soumya. I didnt know that he is also called Shoummo.

Fazle Mahmud isnt a bad prospect either. Needs to play more games.

Tiger444 · #55 April 23, 2012, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
He reminds me of pre-Salahuddin Tamim Iqbal of the 2007 World Cup: aggression coupled with amazing hand-eye coordination. He, alongside Bijauy, Shoummo and Rumman has the ability to sight the ball early and take it to the opposition, though both Bijauy and Shoummo have better temperament and can switch gears with greater ease.

Unfortunately, dead domestic tracks and pathetic domestic bowlers who depend on batting error rather than quality delivery for wickets, create bad habits such as lazy to no footwork, disinterest in rotating the strike, premature commitment of the front foot, using a heavy bottom hand, and premeditated swings. Fazle Rabbi is no exception but I feel he is simply too good a player not to learn. Then again, there's always the possibility he won't hack it at the highest level the way Opi, Rokon, Hannan, Nafis Iqbal, KaEdge, Siddique and Aumi failed deliver at the top of the order.

BPL selection has more to do with whom you know and listen to than actual ability.

I try to write Bangla the way it sounds and avoid nonsensical Anglicization. I also stay away from the "vai" and "voot" khyatfest. Hence "Shoummo", "Bijauy", "Shubhagauto" etc

Thanks Sohel bhai. It looks as though Fazle Mahmud is a good talent. Not surprised to see that he's behind in switching gears and overall temperament compared to Anamul and Shoummo. Those 2 were in the U-19 team for quite some time and so they have become complete packages whereas Rabbi seems to be still raw. I believe that this is another problem we have in our cricket. We can't just depend on the U-19 level to develop players. The domestic system should also develop players equally as good as the U19ers.
A recent example is how Nasir has fared compared to Shubhagoto. Both came in with a lot of ability but Nasir has been able to perform much more consistently compared to Shubhagoto and hence we see Nasir establishing himself as a star in the team already whereas Shubhagoto is still a standby player. Imrul and Junaid are also examples of guys who weren't in the U19 circuit and ended up struggling also.

I believe its a better idea to continue to develop Shubhagoto in the A team and Fazle in the Academy team and give them time to perform consistently until they can start playing for the national team.

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Sohel · #56 April 23, 2012, 01:39 AM

^^^Our selectors/bosses have their club cricket and other biases, some of them quite sectarian/quota-centric in nature (first hand "Kapali-Fapalider diye haube na" knowledge here, and I feel sorry for talented non-Muslim players in the circuit), and use decontextualized domestic statistics to justify their selections. I didn't think Shubhaguto got a fair run in light of his international debut, and they used his dismal domestic performances to keep him out. Given the huge discrepancy between domestic and the highest level of cricket, we ought to take such decisions with copious amounts of salt. Had he been benched for failure at the highest level, I'd have taken things more sportingly.

Even a donkey ought to be able to tell the difference between a Mohammad "Exquisite Timing" Kohlimuddin and a Shubhagauto once their eyes are on the players instead of the numbers they put up in the domestics. Those numbers cannot help us assess whether they'll survive at the top -- because they tell us nothing about the quality of the pitches or bowling or hitting or dismissals or attitude of players etc (CONTEXT) -- but what we see of their actual ability can do a better job. If the selectors don't, we'll continue top have weak links in the team and field only 6 or 7 instead of 11 players.

Both Shubhagauto and Fazle Rabbi are "outsiders" who emerged out of the blue. Naturally they're a little behind the BKSP boys.

Gowza · #57 April 23, 2012, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
^^^Our selectors/bosses have their club cricket and other biases, some of them quite sectarian/quota-centric in nature (first hand "Kapali-Fapalider diye haube na" knowledge here, and I feel sorry for talented non-Muslim players in the circuit), and use decontextualized domestic statistics to justify their selections. I didn't think Shubhaguto got a fair run in light of his international debut, and they used his dismal domestic performances to keep him out. Given the huge discrepancy between domestic and the highest level of cricket, we ought to take such decisions with copious amounts of salt. Had he been benched for failure at the highest level, I'd have taken things more sportingly.

Even a donkey ought to be able to tell the difference between a Mohammad "Exquisite Timing" Kohlimuddin and a Shubhagauto once their eyes are on the players instead of the numbers they put up in the domestics. Those numbers cannot help us assess whether they'll survive at the top -- because they tell us nothing about the quality of the pitches or bowling or hitting or dismissals or attitude of players etc (CONTEXT) -- but what we see of their actual ability can do a better job. If the selectors don't, we'll continue top have weak links in the team and field only 6 or 7 instead of 11 players.

Both Shubhagauto and Fazle Rabbi are "outsiders" who emerged out of the blue. Naturally they're a little behind the BKSP boys.

always makes me excited to see someone when you rate them sohel brother. seen a little bit of shuvagata and he looks to be a good prospect, haven't seen anything of rabbi though.

simon · #58 April 23, 2012, 06:44 AM

Just voted Tamim & Kaedge.
btw,

Kaedge 15- 21 Anamul

achcha,who is Anamul? oooh, the boy who is yet to play his first international ODI,Test or T20?

BD Rox · #59 April 23, 2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon
Just voted Tamim & Kaedge.
btw,

Kaedge 15- 21 Anamul

achcha,who is Anamul? oooh, the boy who is yet to play his first international ODI,Test or T20?

Dude, this guy(Anamul) is really talented and much much better than Imrul. But, you're right somehow. He's still 17. Early days for him. I don't a early debut for him. Let BD groom up the current XI, then after sometimes pick up some1. Despite Australians.

simon · #60 April 23, 2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BD Rox
Dude, this guy(Anamul) is really talented and much much better than Imrul. But, you're right somehow. He's still 17. Early days for him. I don't a early debut for him. Let BD groom up the current XI, then after sometimes pick up some1. Despite Australians.

no matter how good he is in domestic, FC or BPL, international cricket is a whole different thing, he has to prove himself in internationals,after that off course if he is really talented he will do better than Kaedge ,
but only based on is domestic performance & based on the prediction of what he will become in internationals I don't understand how he is ahead of Imrul who so far looked to be the 2nd best one day opener after TI.

Gowza · #61 April 23, 2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon
no matter how good he is in domestic, FC or BPL, international cricket is a whole different thing, he has to prove himself in internationals,after that off course if he is really talented he will do better than Kaedge ,
but only based on is domestic performance & based on the prediction of what he will become in internationals I don't understand how he is ahead of Imrul who so far looked to be the 2nd best one day opener after TI.

probably because this isn't an all time BD XI, this is selecting a team that we think should take the field at this current time. imrul has been in poor form for awhile, has never done well in tests and add the fact that anamul has been impressive all through age group cricket, and through FC domestic cricket and did pretty well in the BPL and on top of that the day or the day after this poll was create anamul got 193.

imrul got 87 in the first innings, decent but doesn't match anamul's 193, however now that anamul jsut got out for 1 and imrul got a century of course people earlier on in the poll would have been more likely to pick anamul and now people are being swayed to pick imrul.

the contest between imrul and anamul when it comes to selection, well the way i see it there is no way people should pick imrul for tests that just doesn't make sense i mean even junaid or nazimuddin would probably be better picks in tests than imrul. in ODIs imrul has a case because he's been solid, nothing special but solid. anamul potentially offers a top quality opener so the decision we are making is whether we should select a proven solid imrul (who has been out of form until this recent FC match) or a potentially above average anamul. do we start giving anamul his chances now? is he ready or isn't he? if he is then surely he should get his chance in the national team if not only in the test team.

i think we should given anamul a chance at least in the test team, my question is should he open or bat at #3? at this point i think give him his chances at opening, it's easier to move down than it is to move up so if he can do well opening he should be able to bat anywhere in the order. i think we have less prospects for the 2nd opener slot and more for the #3 slot which is another reason for giving anamul the 2nd opener spot over the #3 spot, the team needs him to work out as an opener more than a #3 because we have more potentials for the #3 spot.

simon · #62 April 23, 2012, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
probably because this isn't an all time BD XI, this is selecting a team that we think should take the field at this current time. imrul has been in poor form for awhile, has never done well in tests and add the fact that anamul has been impressive all through age group cricket, and through FC domestic cricket and did pretty well in the BPL and on top of that the day or the day after this poll was create anamul got 193.

imrul got 87 in the first innings, decent but doesn't match anamul's 193, however now that anamul jsut got out for 1 and imrul got a century of course people earlier on in the poll would have been more likely to pick anamul and now people are being swayed to pick imrul.

the contest between imrul and anamul when it comes to selection, well the way i see it there is no way people should pick imrul for tests that just doesn't make sense i mean even junaid or nazimuddin would probably be better picks in tests than imrul. in ODIs imrul has a case because he's been solid, nothing special but solid. anamul potentially offers a top quality opener so the decision we are making is whether we should select a proven solid imrul (who has been out of form until this recent FC match) or a potentially above average anamul. do we start giving anamul his chances now? is he ready or isn't he? if he is then surely he should get his chance in the national team if not only in the test team.

you must not have followed DPL which was held before BPL, Imrul was the highest scorer.
Why do we need to rush some young gun like Anamul when we have an in form & experienced Imrul waiting?
How many times does Tamim have to open and adjust with a new opening partner?

BengaliPagol · #63 April 23, 2012, 08:21 AM

Gowza we shouldnt overhype about a player. What if he is another Aftab or a Rajin? Sure he has talent but we have to be calm and wait and see what Anamul can do on the big stage.

He hasnt even debuted yet. Everyone was talking the same about Shuvagata Hom. Look where he is now? International cricket is a whole new ball game.

Imrul has showed promise. Not consistently but he has showed that he can do it. Give him another chance IMO

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Gowza · #64 April 23, 2012, 08:37 AM

shuvagata never let down at the international level....he did fairly well while he was then and then was dropped having done nothing wrong for the national team.

anyway if you look at my posts properly i think i make it clear that i'm supporting anamul much more for a test spot than a one-day spot and also i said if anamul is ready he should get his chance. but anamul is showing signs that he is ready. imrul isn't horrible but he's not amazing, if there is someone better then he should get his chance....

give imrul another chance? he has a case for that in one-dayers now that he is back to form, but in tests he was so bad if we are to pick him over anamul for a test spot that's jsut sending a horrible message to the players. anamul has done terrificly in FC cricket and has earned a call up.

simon · #65 April 23, 2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
shuvagata never let down at the international level....he did fairly well while he was then and then was dropped having done nothing wrong for the national team.

anyway if you look at my posts properly i think i make it clear that i'm supporting anamul much more for a test spot than a one-day spot and also i said if anamul is ready he should get his chance. but anamul is showing signs that he is ready. imrul isn't horrible but he's not amazing, if there is someone better then he should get his chance....

give imrul another chance? he has a case for that in one-dayers now that he is back to form, but in tests he was so bad if we are to pick him over anamul for a test spot that's jsut sending a horrible message to the players. anamul has done terrificly in FC cricket and has earned a call up.

We r not talking about Test opening here, it's about ODI.
Otherwise Imrul is a Big NO for Tests.
but on the other hand even for Tests don't think it's necessary to bring Anamul /
We have Nazimuddin who did reasonably well vs Pak (Test series)
Then we have Jahurul & Junaid.
They deserve more than Anamul imo.
We always are too keen to introduce young kids,let Anamul,Mominul play more,get more matured, it's not like they are getting too old.

Tiger444 · #66 April 23, 2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
^^^Our selectors/bosses have their club cricket and other biases, some of them quite sectarian/quota-centric in nature (first hand "Kapali-Fapalider diye haube na" knowledge here, and I feel sorry for talented non-Muslim players in the circuit), and use decontextualized domestic statistics to justify their selections. I didn't think Shubhaguto got a fair run in light of his international debut, and they used his dismal domestic performances to keep him out. Given the huge discrepancy between domestic and the highest level of cricket, we ought to take such decisions with copious amounts of salt. Had he been benched for failure at the highest level, I'd have taken things more sportingly.

Even a donkey ought to be able to tell the difference between a Mohammad "Exquisite Timing" Kohlimuddin and a Shubhagauto once their eyes are on the players instead of the numbers they put up in the domestics. Those numbers cannot help us assess whether they'll survive at the top -- because they tell us nothing about the quality of the pitches or bowling or hitting or dismissals or attitude of players etc (CONTEXT) -- but what we see of their actual ability can do a better job. If the selectors don't, we'll continue top have weak links in the team and field only 6 or 7 instead of 11 players.

Both Shubhagauto and Fazle Rabbi are "outsiders" who emerged out of the blue. Naturally they're a little behind the BKSP boys.

That's really a shame that discrimination still happens in sports in BD. It shouldn't matter what the players' beliefs are. As long as they can play cricket then have them in to our team.

I'm not as much worried about Shubhagoto not doing well in domestics as I am with his A team performances. With all due respect Sohel bhai Shubhagoto has not done very well in the A team. In the West Indies and England A team tours, in all forms of the game, he failed to even notch up a 50. Mominul and Nasir outplayed him in the WI A team tour.

I agree though that Shubhagoto should not be ruled out just yet because he needs to be given more games in the national team before we can make a judgment on whether he belongs or not.

The competition is very heavy in the middle order with Mominul doing well and also Shabbir being a very good talent as well. All of them do have to wait though because right now I just don't see any middle order spot up for grabs.

BD Rox · #67 April 23, 2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol;1514854[B
]Gowza we shouldnt overhype about a player. What if he is another Aftab or a Rajin? Sure he has talent but we have to be calm and wait and see what Anamul can do on the big stage.[/B]

He hasnt even debuted yet. Everyone was talking the same about Shuvagata Hom. Look where he is now? International cricket is a whole new ball game.

Imrul has showed promise. Not consistently but he has showed that he can do it. Give him another chance IMO

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Spot on. Completely agree.

Gowza · #68 April 23, 2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon
We r not talking about Test opening here, it's about ODI.
Otherwise Imrul is a Big NO for Tests.
but on the other hand even for Tests don't think it's necessary to bring Anamul /
We have Nazimuddin who did reasonably well vs Pak (Test series)
Then we have Jahurul & Junaid.
They deserve more than Anamul imo.
We always are too keen to introduce young kids,let Anamul,Mominul play more,get more matured, it's not like they are getting too old.

how have jahurul and junaid performed better than anamul in FC cricket? anyway when i originally voted the thread wasn't ODI specific, that was decided after i had already voted and started discussing things. anamul has been the best top order batsmen in FC domesstics for the last 2 years.

Tiger444 · #69 April 23, 2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon
We r not talking about Test opening here, it's about ODI.
Otherwise Imrul is a Big NO for Tests.
but on the other hand even for Tests don't think it's necessary to bring Anamul /
We have Nazimuddin who did reasonably well vs Pak (Test series)
Then we have Jahurul & Junaid.
They deserve more than Anamul imo.
We always are too keen to introduce young kids,let Anamul,Mominul play more,get more matured, it's not like they are getting too old.

At the same time, we can't just dismiss a player who is consistently on the top of the run charts just because a player is "young". Also Anamul's 19, and possibly 20 or 21 knowing how people in BD are usually a year or 2 older then their actual age. So it's not really that young. As you see around the world as well, many of the Test playing nations are bringing in younger players as well in to the national team set up.

I understand that people are worried since we've had young talent coming in and ended up struggling but people have to understand that the younger players are adjusting to the international level a lot easier then before. Tamim, Shakib, Mushy, and Nasir are good examples of that. Anamul's also been a part of the U19 team for a long time and the Academy team. So he has a good amount of experience.

To round it out, didn't coach Ian already say many times that he felt that Anamul was ready for international cricket? He also said that he's a very special talent. He's been a coach for many years now so he knows a good player when he sees one.

BengaliPagol · #70 April 24, 2012, 02:45 AM

^ yes thats a good point indeed. Thats why i think if there is going to be a short tour (e.g. Pakistan, Ireland etc) where there will be only be 1 or 2 odi's in that tour we should give Tamim a rest for that tour and let Anamul and Imrul open the batting.

From there we will be able to see who performs better and looks more comfortable opening the batting. Then from there we can make a judgement about who should open the batting with Tamim.

BD Rox · #71 April 24, 2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
^ yes thats a good point indeed. Thats why i think if there is going to be a short tour (e.g. Pakistan, Ireland etc) where there will be only be 1 or 2 odi's in that tour we should give Tamim a rest for that tour and let Anamul and Imrul open the batting.

From there we will be able to see who performs better and looks more comfortable opening the batting. Then from there we can make a judgement about who should open the batting with Tamim.

You're right. But the fact is our board always thinks negatively.

BengaliPagol · #72 April 24, 2012, 05:35 AM

Cmon guys if you havent voted please vote. Your vote could make a difference between the outcome!

Tamim looks like the clear favourite. Anamul looks to be favourite to take the 2nd openers position. Can Imrul come from behind to snatch a spot in the BanglaCricket ODI XI?

Only 4 days left and we will find out...

BengaliPagol · #73 April 26, 2012, 05:43 AM

About 1 and a half days left of voting.

*AsifTheManRahman* · #74 April 26, 2012, 07:31 AM

I just hope Anamul doesn't turn out to be another Ashraful.

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MSM B2C · #75 April 27, 2012, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
I just hope Anamul doesn't turn out to be another Ashraful.

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According to stats and first class record (averages) his been better than Ash & Co.

I think he will be better than Ashraful and could replace Juhurul Islam as No. 3?

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Imrul Kayes
3. Anamul Haque
4. Junaid Siddique
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mushfiqur Rahim
8. Mashrafi Bin Mortaza
9. Abdur Razzak
10. Elias Sunny
11. Nazmul Hossain