Losing to Srilanka at home - Who will get the chop?

[Yankees]

I'm all for breaking this team up and rebuilding around Shakib. But this is BD cricket - we don't drop passengers, we idolize them. Fav5 naki?

[Fazal]

...but ...but ..can you guarantee that sakib will be committed long term
.series after series...year after year.

He already got what he needs, what's there for him to stay committed long long term.?

It's not blaming Sakib, but I would do the same if I were in his shoes.

Some how we need a bunch of hungry young talents to build the team on. And of course change in team attitude ..install clear roles, expectation, transparency, proper implementation of rules, fairness and promote hard work and reward performance.

[Night_wolf]

where are these young "talents" you speak about?

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by Fazal
...but ...but ..can you guarantee that sakib will be committed long term
.series after series...year after year.

He already got what he needs, what's there for him to stay committed long long term.?

It's not blaming Sakib, but I would do the same if I were in his shoes.

Some how we need a bunch of hungry young talents to build the team on. And of course change in team attitude ..install clear roles, expectation, transparency, proper implementation of rules, fairness and promote hard work and reward performance.

If Shakib wanted to he could have easily left this train wreck a long time ago. Unlike anyone else in the team, Shakib is the only Bangladeshi cricketer who can walk into any T20 league. So I don't understand how anyone can question his commitment.

[Roey Haque]

No, we cannot just depend on Shakib now. Hell, Shakib is old, and too rich too have much fire left in his belly.

But yes, I want to remove 3 seniors( including Rahim) with the exception of Tamim and Shakib and start afresh. And I want to start selecting keeping attitude in mind. You need to have a stand up straight, no nonsense, good work ethic, positive, attitude. If you pass these criteria, than your performances will be analyzed in the second round.

This will ensure we don't ever have none of the cheap locker room tactics of the cunning and self serving Muschfikoor ever again.

Not only will we make Bd great again, but we will make it cool again.

[Night_wolf]

Where are the new players you key board selectors talking about? Afif, Saif, Shanto etc? they are now what sabbir, nasir etc were before...in time these afif, saif etc will become the new Sabbir, nasirs and the vicious cycle of picking new players will continue

[Gowza]

Shanto and said especially have shown good consistency at least in the longer format, something Sabbir and nasir certainly hadn't done before selection and Sabbir still hasn't shown it (in any format). TBH though I think afif should only be played in short format cricket for now, saif imo has some work to do technique wise before getting a shot, he obviously has something to him though if he can average nearly 50 in FC cricket after 20 matches. Shanto is the one who is ready and deserves chances in the longer formats if any of the young brigade are to be brought up (he's got more experience).

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
where are these young "talents" you speak about?

Shouldn't we ask that to bcb instead? BCB is spending lots of money there have to be some..or they are a complete failure.

Those recycled old player is not going to take us any further.

When I see bpl, I as a lament talent evaluator see some young talent. What is the plan? How come player like Rony doesn't get any chance until now in t20? How come he didn't get any chance next few years?

What is the plan with Abul now that he is bowling better? He is young and a potential good lower end batsman

What's the plan with Saif in ODI and t20,? He is young and talented?

What is the plan with Shanto and mossadek?

I can go on and on if you want..

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by Yankees
If Shakib wanted to he could have easily left this train wreck a long time ago. Unlike anyone else in the team, Shakib is the only Bangladeshi cricketer who can walk into any T20 league. So I don't understand how anyone can question his commitment.

He did once. What makes you think he will not do it again.

I don't blame him, but the truth is he did it at least once.

[MHRAM]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
where are these young "talents" you speak about?

The young talent like Miraz averages more than Imrul the specialist batsman.

We need to kick out the likes of Imrul and Sabbir from the test side. And the earlier we realize that Riad isn't of any use in this format the better. In the next series I want this lineup:

Tamim
Nafees
Mominul
Mushy
Mosaddek
Shakib
Litton
Miraz
Fizz
Abu Jayed
Roy

Bench will have Soumya, Naeem, Shanto, Nurul

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
Where are the new players you key board selectors talking about? Afif, Saif, Shanto etc? they are now what sabbir, nasir etc were before...in time these afif, saif etc will become the new Sabbir, nasirs and the vicious cycle of picking new players will continue

Yes they will be until you take control of locker room, and enforce more decipline.

Sakib/Tamim and in a way Mushfiq may be individually great, but are not great locker room leaders.

And from that point, Roey has a point here. If you don't want Afif Saif to be next Nasir/Sabbir, you need to make sure they are surrounded by right type of senior players.

These young players need the right environment to grow and learn, currently we don't have the right environment for these young player to learn and grow. We need to address that.

[MHRAM]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Shouldn't we ask that to bcb instead? BCB is spending lots of money there have to be some..or they are a complete failure.

Those recycled old player is not going to take us any further.

When I see bpl, I as a lament talent evaluator see some young talent. What is the plan? How come player like Rony doesn't get any chance until now in t20? How come he didn't get any chance next few years?

What is the plan with Abul now that he is bowling better? He is young and a potential good bowler.

What's the plan with Said in of and t20,? He is young and talented?

What is the plan with Shanto and mossadek?

I can go on and on if you want..

The thing is BCB doesn't seem to have a proper plan. We don't play enough A team cricket as of now. BCB is solely focusing on domestic competitions but playing abroad is playing abroad.

You will learn more by playing a series in Ireland or Zimbabwe then playing against a world class team at mirpur or BKSP for that matter.

Like I said before and I will say it again, BCB is only busy with member comfort. Not spreading the game, not investing on youngsters, constantly having every frigging match in Mirpur so that BCB officials can watch the match instead of focus on their work.

Everywhere in the world, cricket is played across different states and what this does is only one particular association is busy hosting and enjoying the match. If our board officials are busy watching the match or accompanying the team when they tour to ENGLAND(that is a lot of money), then who the eff is back home working on the development of cricket?

There is talent. In U-19 level, Anamul Haque, Liton, Mosaddek, Miraz, Shanto, Saifuddin, Shadman were top players. No they didn't magically regress, BCB aren't doing anything to help them out. Our domestic tournament like BPL has 5 foreign player policy and to make matters worse 50% of the match is played in Dhaka where the wicket doesn't help our skills.

I think our talent pool is much richer than that of Srilanka, NZ etc, but they are not being groomed well enough

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by MHRAM
The thing is BCB doesn't seem to have a proper plan. We don't play enough A team cricket as of now. BCB is solely focusing on domestic competitions but playing abroad is playing abroad.

You will learn more by playing a series in Ireland or Zimbabwe then playing against a world class team at mirpur or BKSP for that matter.

Like I said before and I will say it again, BCB is only busy with member comfort. Not spreading the game, not investing on youngsters, constantly having every frigging match in Mirpur so that BCB officials can watch the match instead of focus on their work.

Everywhere in the world, cricket is played across different states and what this does is only one particular association is busy hosting and enjoying the match. If our board officials are busy watching the match or accompanying the team when they tour to ENGLAND(that is a lot of money), then who the eff is back home working on the development of cricket?

There is talent. In U-19 level, Anamul Haque, Liton, Mosaddek, Miraz, Shanto, Saifuddin, Shadman were top players. No they didn't magically regress, BCB aren't doing anything to help them out. Our domestic tournament like BPL has 5 foreign player policy and to make matters worse 50% of the match is played in Dhaka where the wicket doesn't help our skills.

I think our talent pool is much richer than that of Srilanka, NZ etc, but they are not being groomed well enough

Agree with you.

Our senior players took us where we are right now, if you are happy with it then great stick with them. But if you want more from the team, senior players will not take you any further..
You need to groom and depend on young talent...you need to groom them, provide right environment to grow... but once you bring them in the national team, give enough time to learn and grow before prematurely announce them as failure.

[Roey Haque]

^ This is what I have been saying for some time now Fazal.

But I do understand the other perspective. From where we came, hovering around the bottom 4 can be new height of achievement for some, and they want to maintain the 7 spot for at least one more year ( hoping to get the 6th, which they won't, it's a false promise), before falling back to 8, 9 and then 10. Because the core had already reached their peak last world cup and failed to bring any silverware. So they will continue to decline.

So what do you do? You can be brave, break the team apart, keep maybe two seniors, take selection risks and dare to be great. Or you can continue your path to fall from grace. This is what some do not understand, when seniors clog up spots, they are not only liable for their inconsistent performances, but they are MORE liable for shaping the culture. Which is where it gets into risky territory. The amount of goofy complacence and putrid negativity Rahim has shown over the years, he is a cancer cell that needs to be aborted immediately!

[DinRaat.]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
^ This is what I have been saying for some time now Fazal.

But I do understand the other perspective. From where we came, hovering around the bottom 4 can be new height of achievement for some, and they want to maintain the 7 spot for at least one more year ( hoping to get the 6th, which they won't, it's a false promise), before falling back to 8, 9 and then 10. Because the core had already reached their peak last world cup and failed to bring any silverware. So they will continue to decline.

So what do you do? You can be brave, break the team apart, keep maybe two seniors, take selection risks and dare to be great. Or you can continue your path to fall from grace. This is what some do not understand, when seniors clog up spots, they are not only liable for their inconsistent performances, but they are MORE liable for shaping the culture. Which is where it gets into risky territory. The amount of goofy complacence and putrid negativity Rahim has shown over the years, he is a cancer cell that needs to be aborted immediately!

This is going to be hard to sallow for many, I doubt we will get into the top 4 with this bunch.


Forum needs more realists like you.

[Shingara]

GOOD BYE

Imrul
Soumya
Mushfiq
Sabbir
Riyad
Taskin
Liton

Eki player bar bar = same failures
Start with new players, at least they will perform better in the long run.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Yes they will be until you take control of locker room, and enforce more decipline.

Sakib/Tamim and in a way Mushfiq may be individually great, but are not great locker room leaders.

And from that point, Roey has a point here. If you don't want Afif Saif to be next Nasir/Sabbir, you need to make sure they are surrounded by right type of senior players.

These young players need the right environment to grow and learn, currently we don't have the right environment for these young player to learn and grow. We need to address that.

then shouldn't we create the environment first and then introduce the new players?. cause at the current system if we are introducing new talents we are wasting 95% of them..rarely one will stick around but barely like miraz.

kicking out the seniors is not the answer. you need stable players. we need to control the seniors.how? i dont know..in BD seniority bossgiri is everywhere

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
then shouldn't we create the environment first and then introduce the new players?. cause at the current system if we are introducing new talents we are wasting 95% of them..rarely one will stick around but barely like miraz.

Not necessarily "first" but it needs to happen sooner than later. So in a way you are right, they need to address the environment issue first. And there comes leadership quality of some of the senior players, they need to be scrutinized more closely... not all of them are helping create a good environment for the young players.

Originally Posted by Night_wolf

kicking out the seniors is not the answer. you need stable players. we need to control the seniors.how? i dont know..in BD seniority bossgiri is everywhere

I respectfully disagree. It doesn't mean you get rid of all the senior players at the same time, it also doesn't mean you need to get rid of all the senior players one by one. Being senior player is not a crime. But you need to evaluate player by player who is a) producing, b) not making same mistakes again and again, c) improving or show some sign of improvement, d) hardworking and promote hardwork, e) Has respect to team rules, follows its and encourage other to follow and f) not a bad influence to young players.


I don't know about other places, but in NFL, a well organized team always give lot of emphasis on player's personality... specially senior players... are they disrupter to team chemistry or they are a team player or a role model. Some aggressive team GM take chance on those players with questionable leadership quality...most of these decision turn out to be bad decision by that team. Some players get 2nd chance in new environment, but team usually make sure the player realize that and make most of of his 2nd chance.

Also in NFL, popular senior players are dropped from team for performance reason, its not very popular decision from fan and reporter's POV. But as a GM, you have to do what you have to do...team comes first, emotion second. Its always hard to drop a senior popular player, and it need courage by the team manager to do so for the sake of the team.

[NoName]

The last coach that tried to control seniors had to quit and we cheered it around here

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by NoName
The last coach that tried to control seniors had to quit and we cheered it around here

That was indeed a sad part of the whole episode.

Sometime we fans, stuck with cheap emotion, forget what is good for the team.

This team needs a strict disciplinarian, and good strategist and some good role model players in the lock room. Now we have none.

[NoName]

As I see it, you reap what you sow and it was fitting that we lost embarrassingly to the coach we ran out. Karma had the last say.

Where is the chest thumping the media and people were displaying after the first ODI win vs Lanka? Or whatever happened to the argument that the team was 'peaking' hence our wins last few years just to discredit the coach? Peaking my ***, we got out batted by a team with that had way less experience than us. Heck Roshen fella looked like a seasoned veteran compared to our dumbasses and we were boasting how we would demolish Lanka post Sanga era

This teams mentality won't go far in it's current state because we will either have a Jurgensen type coach which the players will run or a Hathor type one which will clash with players because of their egos end up quitting

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by NoName
As I see it, you reap what you sow and it was fitting that we lost embarrassingly to the coach we ran out. Karma had the last say.

Where is the chest thumping the media and people were displaying after the first ODI win vs Lanka? Or whatever happened to the argument that the team was 'peaking' hence our wins last few years just to discredit the coach? Peaking my ***, we got out batted by a team with that had way less experience than us. Heck Roshen fella looked like a seasoned veteran compared to our dumbasses and we were boasting how we would demolish Lanka post Sanga era

This teams mentality won't go far in it's current state because we will either have a Jurgensen type coach which the players will run or a Hathor type one which will clash with players because of their egos end up quitting

I don't buy this line of reasoning. One could just as easily ask how is it that the main player said coach undermined ended up scoring the most runs, getting the MoM in his first match against that coach? Apart from that you had the first ODI which coach lost by 160+ runs and the first Test which ended in a draw.

This is somewhat akin to a student coming into an exam with the answer key, and then only answering 3 out of the 5 questions correctly. Not necessarily impressive.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
I don't buy this line of reasoning. One could just as easily ask how is it that the main player said coach undermined ended up scoring the most runs, getting the MoM in his first match against that coach? Apart from that you had the first ODI which coach lost by 160+ runs and the first Test which ended in a draw.

This is somewhat akin to a student coming into an exam with the answer key, and then only answering 3 out of the 5 questions correctly. Not necessarily impressive.

two of those questions(tri series final and final test) had bonus marks. It doesn't matter if one cant answer 2 out of 5 questions as long as he gets the highest grade, in this case the had the best answers where it mattered. he won the war. doesn't matter if he lost a battle or two here and there

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
two of those questions(tri series final and final test) had bonus marks. It doesn't matter if one cant answer 2 out of 5 questions as long as he gets the highest grade, in this case the had the best answers where it mattered. he won the war. doesn't matter if he lost a battle or two here and there

Imagine having the teacher's key on an exam and getting 3 out of 5. Other students are getting 4 out of 5, some getting 5 out of 5 by just studying and not using a cheat sheet. And in 1 of those questions (first ODI loss by 163 runs) the kid didn't even get partial credit.

Having said that, thats no excuse for thinking chacha can be a coach, pandering to DPL clubs to drop Musa and play Sabbir, giving Riyad the vice captaincy and thereby a guaranteed spot in the XI, not trying to find a replacement for Imrul, and not looking for a wrist spinner. But all these things would need to happen even if we whitewashed SL in both formats. Win-Loss has no bearing on whether we ought to do our due diligence or not.

Creating a non-flat pitch was actually a good idea. Just happened to backfire on us.

[One World]

Chacha has decided chop himself off I guess.

He said he is disinterested to continue as there is too much dirty reporting going on in the media