Debate: Do you like the idea of the Burqa/Niqab/Full cover garment

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Mas_UK25
Touchy subject. Let people decide for themselves what to wear. IMO

Islamically it is not compulsory to be fully covered. Hijab is covered the hair, up to the wrist, fully down to the feet, but you don't have to cover your face. Hijab isn't just the garment, it's much more than that, Hijab is whole package itself, how you conduct yourself, behave, act. Goes to both genders.

There is Hijaab for men also. it goes both ways. Islam is all about decency and modesty. If a women does not want to show me her face, that's perfectly O.K.

[Rifat]

Niqaab done as a religious act to please God, if it is forced upon some women against her will and the moment she escapes...things tend to go south very very quickly(same logic applies to Hijaab). That's why In Islam ideally, nobody should force anyone into anything. There is no compulsion in Deen(Islamic way of conduct) Every deed is judged by their intention.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by Rifat
I have full respect for this underlined view



Most women who wear the niqaab(even the US, though it is a minority) is done by choice. Only two countries i think of that impose it at state/government level is Saudi and Iran(correct me if i am wrong)


I can easily make a counterargument about how there is a whole industry dedicated to the objectification of Women's body for profit in which case men or other satanic creatures telling women how to behave, and what is her worth purely based on her sexual appeal. It goes both ways.

I have posted this link before a few years back on another thread, fascinating debate on CNN on what I call "Egyptian Cat Fight"

You dont have to impose it on state level, you can impose it on your kids inside your home.

How many women do you think choose it for themselves and how many do you think has been indoctrinated about it in home 24/7? No one chooses to be oppressed. No one decides to walk on the street with face all covered, fingers covered in 40 degrees heat.
People still do because that is how they are brought up. Yes it is their choice but a choice that was forced onto them as a kid and the society.

Burqa was forced on women in Afghanistan for decades by Taliban government. I dont recall any muslim majority country or the great so called scholars ever condemning the practice.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Shingara
There is no mention of wearing a burkha in the Quran.
.

Brother, Have you read Surah Ahzab( chapter 33, verse 59) regarding the verse, "O Prophet(SalAllahu A'laihe wasallam) tell your wives, your daughters and the believing women....."

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafhe...ra=33&verse=59

However, there is room for Islamic scholarly interpretation of this verse. And the fact that the verse ends with Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. should give people a lot of hope.

Niqaab is of a higher status. In order to get to the higher levels of paradise, greater sacrifice(Jihaad) is required. Even few non muslims wore the face veil(back in the day when sexual promiscuity was the exception, not the norm)

In 1916, in Vienna, Austria, presented the king with his wife - which, as the queen was - was entirely covered only by the fact that it is the queen and not have to be looked by any man.

http://www.cafemom.com/group/97/foru...lete_Face_Veil

Alhamdulillah! I am currently taking Arabic and just completed a basic beginner's level course(pronouns and nouns and other basic stuff). And even once i complete insha Allah advanced level arabic I am still not qualified to translate the qur'an, as it is not sufficient!

[tonmoy.dhaka]

^^ If the interpretation you provided is the absolute truth than this again shows that there are room for reformation in Islam.
Of-course calling for reformation probably is blasphemy to most and therein lies the problem. I do not understand the logic behind practising a lifestyle followed by tribal people 1400 years ago and incorporate that into modern society.

[Jadukor]

One good example is to look at Afghanistan of the 1950s-1960s before the Afghan war and all the Taliban crap and how women used to dress over there. That was a time of free afghan societies before the rise of islamic fundamentalism. If given a choice i am sure all Afghan women would want to travel back to that era.

The first picture of medical students in Kabul seems unbelievable in current context
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...nd-60s/100544/

[Zeeshan]

I think we actually agree more than disagree and there are many overlaps. Here are three levels where each rises by a degree re: controversy.

Level 1: I think we all agree woman have the right to wear what they want. In fact, I do agree as idumb pointed out first, that the whole idea of debating women's right to wear whatever she wants by bunch of males in an all male dominated forum is risible. NOT riseable, whatever that means.

Level 2: Now comes Jadukor's point and the topic slightly gets more subtle. What he did present cannot be denied. In many Middle Eastern Countries women are subjugated and forced to adapt to whims of Islamic male priests and clerics.

Level 3: Now unfortunately some women do read the previous fact as being "empowering", this is where we all start to getting into discordance. The thing is while women argues, and rightfully so, that wearing niqab can be empowering, but one can also counterargue they are just sourgraping a delicious Sizzler (Don't bag on Sizzler, ride till I die) steak must be gross and yuck when the real fact is it is just haram for many hardcore religious followers. Sure if you are women and believe that wearing burqaa or purdah or niqab can be empowering, sure you are privy to do so, but don't for a moment have us non-Muslims guys (humans Homo sapiens) believe for a moment that you are not trying to justify your red blooded ties to a fervent religious ideology by playing the 'empowering-card'. Then by that account, you cannot put on an air of judgmental authority and shame, and guilt those who feel 'empowering' by being nude and naked. It can sway either way.

Level 4: Who cares! Strictly as a guy, as long the dress is shapely heck it is all empowering for me. Have you seen some of the Arab ladies, man, dayummmmmm..... I got a great link; inbox me. This includes the Brazilian Arab Instagram sensation.

[icricket]

Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
You dont have to impose it on state level, you can impose it on your kids inside your home.

How many women do you think choose it for themselves and how many do you think has been indoctrinated about it in home 24/7? No one chooses to be oppressed. No one decides to walk on the street with face all covered, fingers covered in 40 degrees heat.
People still do because that is how they are brought up. Yes it is their choice but a choice that was forced onto them as a kid and the society.

I have a question for you, tonmoy? How did your family dressed you when you were younger (in Bangladesh?) and how do you dress yourself now as an adult in Bangladesh (?), and now in Canada?

[DinRaat.]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Brother, Have you read Surah Ahzab( chapter 33, verse 59) regarding the verse, "O Prophet(SalAllahu A'laihe wasallam) tell your wives, your daughters and the believing women....."

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafhe...ra=33&verse=59

However, there is room for Islamic scholarly interpretation of this verse. And the fact that the verse ends with Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. should give people a lot of hope.

Niqaab is of a higher status. In order to get to the higher levels of paradise, greater sacrifice(Jihaad) is required. Even few non muslims wore the face veil(back in the day when sexual promiscuity was the exception, not the norm)





http://www.cafemom.com/group/97/foru...lete_Face_Veil

Alhamdulillah! I am currently taking Arabic and just completed a basic beginner's level course(pronouns and nouns and other basic stuff). And even once i complete insha Allah advanced level arabic I am still not qualified to translate the qur'an, as it is not sufficient!

Whatever you say there is no mention of the burqa in the quran, and i completely agree with Tonmoy, the idea of the burqa was brought down by Arab men , who saw women as more of an item, then as a human being

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by icricket
I have a question for you, tonmoy? How did your family dressed you when you were younger (in Bangladesh?) and how do you dress yourself now as an adult in Bangladesh (?), and now in Canada?

That is going very personal. What is your point?

[adamnsu]

Some of you guys should put a Burqa on your comments

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by adamnsu
Some of you guys should put a Burqa on your comments

Now we are showing that we believe in free speech!

[adamnsu]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
Now we are showing that we believe in free speech!

That was showing dissent of people abusing their freedom to use speech

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by Yankees
I don't think you can read if thats what you got out of it.

Yeah amaro tai mone hoy. Ekta shorborno boi theke amader ektu shikhiye diyen dada

On topic -

https://youtube.com/watch?v=77rU1IT_h90

Subtlety guys as zee said. Subtlety!

[simon]

Palai baba 😰

[bujhee kom]

Woow...Look at my Lady Gaga ...
She looking fine in Burqa and singing and dancing in Burqa...
Good on my Lady Gaga...I ordered my own burqa yesterday from Amazon!

[roman]

Her family members might have forced her to wear that. She is oppressed. She needs freedom. We know better what she should wear and what she should not. Let's label her family as taleban supporter who are following 1400 years old outdated rituals.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Find an example of one Odd-ball and use it to justify some awful practice.

There is hardly any difference between trump supporters and us.

[adamnsu]

Originally Posted by roman
Her family members might have forced her to wear that. She is oppressed. She needs freedom. We know better what she should wear and what she should not. Let's label her family as taleban supporter who are following 1400 years old outdated rituals.

Lmao Ha ha ha 😀

[bujhee kom]

When I was a kid I had nightmares about black Burqa....when my cousins and I used to run around and cause massive havoc in and around the house, and my aunts could not control us, they used to say, "Oi Kala Burqa wali lady ailo Old Dhaka theika...dhorlo tumader...!" Within a second we used to run and hide under the bed....

Kala Burqa aisa baccha kaccha dhoira lia jabey!

[SportingBD]

Wow. just now this Syrian scholar tweeted this, I thought I share it to you guys..

most of us can't answer... and this tweet by the scholar sort of summarises it nicely

"Our crisis in the Muslim World is not economic, it is intellectual"

https://twitter.com/Shaykhabulhuda

[Jadukor]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02...ons-mufti.html

Something relevant to the discussion. Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf prior to the meeting and eventually cancelled the meeting.

[al Furqaan]

So a show of hands for those who support nudism...I hear Hedonism in Jamaica is the place to be...watch some cricket, scope out the naked wives on the beach...

Burqa vs full nudity...its all arbitrary. Who decides what is acceptable to cover or uncover. If face is fine, who says arms are not? If legs, why not genitals? Adam and Eve were butt naked in heaven weren't they? So there is nothing i herently evil, dirty, or sinful in nakedness.

But hijab bashing is a convenient excuse for islamophobia these days.

[DinRaat.]

This debate is about the burqa, not the headscarf, the burqa is not compulsory, thus does not need to be worn as it in my own opinion, is a symbol of oppression itself, I`d like to see how you guys feel when you walk around NY,London Tube, wearing a full black veil covering you from head to toe, reinforced by uneducated clerics and mullahs, in the edges of the world

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
This debate is about the burqa, not the headscarf, the burqa is not compulsory, thus does not need to be worn as it in my own opinion, is a symbol of oppression itself, I`d like to see how you guys feel when you walk around NY,London Tube, wearing a full black veil covering you from head to toe, reinforced by uneducated clerics and mullahs, in the edges of the world

DinRaat, you may not like the Burqa, but a person has the right to dress whichever way he or she feels appropriate. Your perception that these women are influenced by uneducated Mullahs is an insult to their intelligence and disrespectful.