Question to Siddons and Selectors: Where Is The Middle Order?

[WarWolf]

It's official now. WE HAVE NO MIDDLE ORDER.

[Jadukor]

We are at the bottom of the pile and hence our batters also have low averages... that's a fair enough assessment but I feel even in Bangladeshi standards Junaid's average of 23.6 after 50 games at a key batting position of no. 3 is a pretty poor effort.

In all teams no. 3 positions have been held by great cricketers like Arvinda De Silva, Ponting, Kallis, Lara etc... The role of this position most times is to build the innings in the middle overs and prevent a collapse should a quick wicket fall... some have done that admirably through solid defense like Razzaq in 99 worldcup and others have done it through counter attacks such as De Silva in 96 or Ponting throughout his career... Either way the common thing is that they have all displayed the patience to play a long innings and the technique to tackle both spin and pace.

I like Junaid... he is a decent batsman and a good slip fielder...but is he a no 3 in the long run for us?

[hbk619]

just watched tritio matra talk show

siddons should be embarrassed.......after the 8th wicket, LOTUS KAMAL HAD TO TELL SHAFIUL THAT HE HAS TO PLAY HARD CRICKET OTHERWISE WE HAVE NO CHANCE TO WIN THIS MATCH...

now i really doubt that siddons' got no cricketing brain

[SS]

This is one of the most important threads about depicting our true picture of batting debacle in this world cup...thanks for opening this thread...the reason of our batting concern is due to no middle order...we have two games left in first round...but not sure if anything can be done...but I am so worried and tired of seeing our middle order batting worst than the lower order...

There are very good discussions here but i hope it won't go in vain...."do not break winning combination" will not work and that type of mentality sometimes give us shock like what we got two weeks ago. Will they make any changes next match to fix this middle order problem? I doubt it.

[SS]

Originally Posted by WarWolf
According to PA and other news papers, SN is not likely to get a match even on today. Junaid is riding his luck from his GODFATHER. I don't see anything changes today unless Imrul, Tamim or Shakib do anything extra ordinary with bat.

If that's the case, I doubt we will see more progress....this is a huge concern about our batting...we can get away with close games but how many times we can get the desired results with good bowling and fielding...If we do not bat good we will have huge pressure in the remaining matches regardless of the opposition

[irampool]

I have been a pro Taklu Da for a long time, but then I started to feel that he failed in the following tasks:

1. Making Riad a lower order batsman whereas he would have been really good at No.4 bcuz of the fact that he likes to rotate the strike rather than going for big hits.

2. He has given endless free rides to Junayed & Rakibul in the last three years, neglecting every other potential batsman who should have got opportunities at No.3 & No.4 spots.

3. Didn't come up with anything meaningful to get success in the later part of the innings, batting PP in particular.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by irampool
I have been a pro Taklu Da for a long time, but then I started to feel that he failed in the following tasks:

1. Making Riad a lower order batsman whereas he would have been really good at No.4 bcuz of the fact that he likes to rotate the strike rather than going for big hits.

2. He has given endless free rides to Junayed & Rakibul in the last three years, neglecting every other potential batsman who should have got opportunities at No.3 & No.4 spots.

3. Didn't come up with anything meaningful to get success in the later part of the innings, batting PP in particular.

add didn't identify and develop any new batting talent during his time to this list. I think we are lucky to have two cricketers of immense talent like Shakib and Tamim who is more than covering up for out batting deficiencies at the moment. If those two get out cheaply its going to be a disaster

[lamisa]

i am a pro taklu but what i don't get is why didn't he try any new players before the WC???

[BangladeshFan]

Originally Posted by Isnaad
Why doesnt any1 question Mushfiq's performance? He has not done well at all! Jahurul promised a lot that Mushfiq never promised. Mushfiq needs to be dropped soon. He has not proved his critics like me wrong. Hope he does but most probably he wont.

My question as well, where is Jahurul, he was a capable batsman. Mushfiq stumping of prior was smart but he also make crucial errors. Besides he is not good enough to bat at 4 , 5 or 6 ; he struggles to rotate the strike neither does he have the strength for big shots. Both riyad and naeem should come ahead of him.

[zainab]

He has not improved the batting in the 4 yrs he has been with BD, and he completely destroyed Ashraful who has lost his confidence big time.

[ialbd]

we cant go for an all out overhauling of our middle order... but the players you mentioned Sadi bhai, needs to know their position in the national squad are not permanent.

they should know that for every position in the team they occupy there is atleast 1 other players waiting.

1. It really bugs me to see Mushfiq getting a free ride with all that batting. His keeping is fine (atleast he is not a kamran akmal), but we rather compromise 'some' wicket-keeping ability for some middle-order batting muscle.
2. Junayed remains a mystery. He shows intent, but thats about it. No contender for no 3 spot makes it easy for him.
3. Naeem wants to be a Roqibul at heart (no 4/5 batsman trying to anchor an innings) and not chhokka naeem (we have chhokka shafiul now )
4. Riyad's inconsistency is just killing him. But we shouldnt give up on him (and thats not just for the the eng game).

Siddons should really think about the batting lineup. Clearly whatever solution he had for no 4 position didnt work. The only thing left to try is promoting naeem/riyad up the order (and I am not sure how strong naeem/riyad will feel about that).

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by irampool
I have been a pro Taklu Da for a long time, but then I started to feel that he failed in the following tasks:

1. Making Riad a lower order batsman whereas he would have been really good at No.4 bcuz of the fact that he likes to rotate the strike rather than going for big hits.

2. He has given endless free rides to Junayed & Rakibul in the last three years, neglecting every other potential batsman who should have got opportunities at No.3 & No.4 spots.

3. Didn't come up with anything meaningful to get success in the later part of the innings, batting PP in particular.

Spot on.JS has failed to fix our batting order and batting department.Lot of free ride to Rock and Junaid thats true.Still they are non performing.In #4 Siddon's best choice is Rock.If that much chances given to Riyad or SN i am sure they ll do better that Rock.Even Mushy was better choice than Rock at #4
.I dont like the idea of recycling of failed material.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

[LBW103]

Have we really got no batting talent outside of the top 15 or is JS saying that to protect the ones he likes that are in the squad?

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by LBW103
Have we really got no batting talent outside of the top 15 or is JS saying that to protect the ones he likes that are in the squad?

I guess somebody should ask him how much of domestic cricket does he follow... how many matches has he attended... Does he know about Shamsur Rahman, Fazle Rabbi etc....

[Musfique]

Do we really want to go back to the dark days of players walking in and out of the revolving door, never feeling settled enough, never having enough time to learn the basics of cricket?
The selectors have given the coaching staff 15 - 20 core players to develop for the last 3 years, and overall the skill level of most players have increased dramatically (Tamim, Shakib, Imrul, Mahmudulla, even Zunaid). That’s how we should be judging the performance. Out of a core group of players, there will some who won't improve as fast as others (Tamim vs Zunaed), but you can not just discard willy nilly.
The biggest problem is that our players are entering the national team without the necessary basic skills; so therefore, it takes a lot of time to make them ready for international cricket. Do you remember how much the likes of Shakib and Tamim struggled in the beginning?

Be careful what you wish for, if we make wholesale changes after the world cup, it will be DISASTROUS. At most we should bring 3/4 new players from the academy or A team to boost the national team after the world cup.


Thanks.

[SS]

I understand some concerns about trying out new possibilities...but 1 or 2 middle order batsmen should not be a big impact...we are not talking about changing the entire team...but some great suggestions here regarding trying them out in A teams or academy team...BCB really got to arrange more matches for the development teams and selectors should really use the right middle order quality assessment to identify the contenders in those development unit. Not effective to teach team in National squad as it might fail (investing all these years but still form dropped for lot of them at the same time!!)

[RazabQ]

I like what Beamer has to say on the matter. Jahurul should be given an extended run. Any guy who can score a big century in early English summer conditions deserves that. Plus he's not looked out of depth at any point after being plucked straight out of the domestic leagues. Jahurul falling by the way side is the biggest failing of Siddons era and hopefully can be recovered.

On the batting side, I feel Jamie should have pushed for Alex (aka Alok) a little bit more. A classy middle order guy like that with so much talent ought to be persisted with.

Finally, what is Jamie/BCCB doing to track people like Shamsur, Nazimuddin, Mehrab Jr., all of whom have shown some promise and can be turned to for stop-loss

I won't blame Jamie for Ash though - that boy just ain't right in the head.

[lamisa]

aren't we touring zim later this year sometime?i think we should be experimenting to our heart's content then but don't change much when aussies tour us

[allrounder]

Right now the middle order is in the middle of crisis, they are not able to stay in the middle of the ground. We definitely have to meddle with the middle order.

[pagol-chagol]

Originally Posted by Beamer
I think the biggest mistake Siddons has done, which has gone unnoticed due to the sudden defeat of the Kiwis and beating Zim at home, is his insistence with the same core group in all three versions of the game. I have said it before and I will say it again, though people think I am some Siddons guy, but the fact is that he has developed this core to be able test batsman, but horribly wanting in shorter version. If you look at our test line up, you will see the exact group of players, and I appreciate him for improving all of their test stats and abilities. But, any casual observer knows, there are some other intangibles that are needed to be a successful one day/T20 player, batting in top six.
First: Identify players who has power that can play quick when needed- then coach em up.
Second : Identify players who are busy on their feet and play run -a -ball with spread field.

Now, who populate our top six ? Here are the five from Imrul, Zunaid, Rokibul, Rahim and Riyad. All five are probably essential to our test line up, but if you look at my criteria above, none has what it takes to be good shorter version players. Its not their fault. Its the fault of coaches and selectors for shoving them in a place where they probably don't belong. If we keep on doing this, we will probably hamper their test credentials. Actually, I am certain that it will happen. What's worse is out of desperation, we are playing them at positions in which they are misfits. For example, at No.4, maybe Rokibul has a case, but to acomodate Rahim, he is batting at no.6! So, both of them can't play at the same time. Either you drop Rahim and get a wkt keeper batsman suited for one dayers who can bat at no.6 ( or open ), or you drop Rokibul and get someone who can bat at no.6. Then, there is Zunaid. He is a no.3 and tell me what he has done to be a no.3 for one dayers? Imrul is ok for now, but sooner or later, he must show that he can be more than a tag along with Tamim. But, He is not my no.1 concern. I can live with him. Zunaid should focus on tests. Rahim should only be a test keeper and bat at no.6 in tests. Riyad only for tests at no.5. Rakibul only for tests at no.4 and maybe some more games in one dayers. In the meantime, go around looking for guys who are capable hitters/all rounders for no.6-7.

If Siddons is retained ( I doubt it ), he must stop with this tunnel vision, and identify-groom-play players that have different skill sets from this core. No.2,3,4,6 and 7 are in play and should be open. I won't tinker much with the test line-up. Last thing you want to do is judge test players based on their one day skills and returns.

Back to the lab. Its ok to have vastly different units for different versions. The sample time was enough, and before we damage this crew in tests, lets stop it before that happens. Selectors must draft players based on specific positions and players suited to each position.

Thanks. This should be in The Daily Star.

[Fazal]

if we could bring back Jahirul, the middle with Junaid, SN, Jahirul, Shakib, Riyad is not that bad.

I know ... i know.. jahirul may not be in his best form, Junaid is cannot extend beyond 30, Sn is still a question marks, Shakib is kin of having some bad time with the bad.... But a lineup of Tamim, Imrul, Junaid, SN, Jahirul, Shakib, Riyad would be much more exciting than what we had in the first few games.

[WarWolf]

Let's have a look at the batting averages of the batsmen in the WC.

Bangladesh batting averages

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
Imrul Kayes	6	6	1	188	73*	37.60	277	67.87	0	2	0	21	0
Tamim Iqbal	6	6	0	157	70	26.16	176	89.20	0	1	2	16	1
Shakib Al Hasan	6	6	0	142	55	23.66	200	71.00	0	1	0	14	0
Raqibul Hasan	4	4	1	70	38	23.33	116	60.34	0	0	1	1	1
Shahriar Nafees	2	2	0	42	37	21.00	72	58.33	0	0	0	5	0
Junaid Siddique	6	6	0	114	37	19.00	159	71.69	0	0	0	11	1
Mushfiqur Rahim	6	6	1	81	36	16.20	153	52.94	0	0	1	6	1
Mahmudullah	4	3	1	32	21*	16.00	65	49.23	0	0	0	2	0
Rubel Hossain	6	4	3	11	8*	11.00	19	57.89	0	0	1	2	0
Naeem Islam	5	5	0	40	29	8.00	75	53.33	0	0	1	4	0
Shafiul Islam	6	5	1	26	24*	6.50	50	52.00	0	0	3	4	1
Mohammad Ashraful	2	2	0	12	11	6.00	27	44.44	0	0	0	2	0
Abdur Razzak	6	5	1	15	11	3.75	34	44.11	0	0	1	0	0
Suhrawadi Shuvo	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

Clearly shows how bad we performed with the bat. Nobody from the middle order having an average of 25!!! How can we expect to compete?

[WarWolf]

One thing that is clear to me in the recent times. Once the opening pair is clicking, we are able to post some runs. Otherwise our batting collapse completely. Practically there is no batting order.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by WarWolf
One thing that is clear to me in the recent times. Once the opening pair is clicking, we are able to post some runs. Otherwise our batting collapse completely. Practically there is no batting order.

i dont really think we are clicking even after the opening stand... we had a great start against ireland... i think we were something like 50 in 5 overs... when u have a fluke player like Junaid at no. 3... and no settled player at no. 4... you are bound to lose two quick wickets... we need to develop middle order players who can pick gaps and not rely on big shots all the time... where is our Akram,Bulbul, Nannu of this generation?... We need players with a bit more guts... these guys seem to pee in their pants once tamim gets out cheaply