US ambassador 'killed in Libya'

[Navo]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Oh now we are playing the victim game? Blame the victim? What crock. We are too sentimental so don't criticize us. It goes both ways. The Muslims criticize the West for their promiscuous ways. We don't see too many mobs of Western Christian salafists storming the Yemeni embassy in DC. The crackpots like the Koran burning reverend are few and far between. You have kind of highlighted the fundamental ill of our culture. Our intolerance and inability to react to criticism no matter how unfounded. As my wife says, you may not be able to control how others act, but you surely can control how you react.

I was ranting about a similar issue on FB yesterday after the news broke. An old housemate of mine said: "I have the right to be angry and offended when someone goes out of their way to deliberately portray our beloved Prophet in this perverse manner. It deserves our attention because someone spent $5m making this bu*****t and we should stand up for our religion which is constantly misunderstood and attacked.."

In sum, my opinion was: "I'm not denying that it's offensive, actually I'm saying that it's hyper-offensive. It's so offensive and detached from reality that it would only appeal to the deranged. No one in their right mind who watches this would take this seriously or believe anything it says. Those who would, cannot be reasoned with anyway and protest (whether violent or non-violent, symbolic or literal) is thus pointless.

This film was sponsored by a small group of private donors. There is no corporate or state legitimacy backing this. So why do we perceive it as such a threat and who do we think we will dissuade by protesting? We have to accept that in a world of over 7 billion people there will be quite a few crackpots.

In polemical terms, we expect the world to forgive 'the Muslim world' (whatever that is) for producing the odd nutter by accepting that they're 'only a minority', but are we not capable of exercising the same forgiveness for their nutters or acceptance that they're only a minority?"

[ammark]

^^^ Agreed Navo, but here we are on an online forum, probably an unheard voice giving measured talk about the incident and the film. However, it just takes a few crackpots to rouse up a mob, and polarise an entire community. Is there a solution to preventing this effectively and comprehensively? My answer is 'No'.

[Naimul_Hd]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Oh now we are playing the victim game? Blame the victim? What crock. We are too sentimental so don't criticize us. It goes both ways. The Muslims criticize the West for their promiscuous ways. We don't see too many mobs of Western Christian salafists storming the Yemeni embassy in DC. The crackpots like the Koran burning reverend are few and far between. You have kind of highlighted the fundamental ill of our culture. Our intolerance and inability to react to criticism no matter how unfounded. As my wife says, you may not be able to control how others act, but you surely can control how you react.

[...........]

Edit: Deleted my post to refrain from unnecessary argument !

[Navo]

Originally Posted by ammark
^^^ Agreed Navo, but here we are on an online forum, probably an unheard voice giving measured talk about the incident and the film. However, it just takes a few crackpots to rouse up a mob, and polarise an entire community. Is there a solution to preventing this effectively and comprehensively? My answer is 'No'.

The Guardian was right in saying that the film, as poor quality and ridiculous as it might be, has achieved its obvious objective to rile up both anti-Muslim bigots and Muslim zealots.

What's worrying is what the mob does once its riled up. One group burns holy books and makes derogatory films, the other destroys whole buildings and kills multiple people. Our minority of crackpots causes more collateral damage than any other minority. When looked at from this perspective, it's harder to justify the argument that 'there are fundamentalists on both sides'.

[ammark]

Originally Posted by Navo
When looked at from this perspective, it's harder to justify the argument that 'there are fundamentalists on both sides'.

But why justify? When you say that, you're implying that there is some sort of subjective relativism that applies. Its like saying "Burning Quran is better than blowing up US Embassy". From any objective measure we both agree that fundoos exist on both sides. So why is it that the Muslim fundo's get riled up easier and resort to more destructive forms of expression instead of an assertive intellectual engagement?

[Rifat]

I must say, the biggest mistake here was playing this enormously historically inaccurate film on Egyptian TV(channel An-Nas)...It is not good to spread lies, the film is a bunch of lies to begin with.(when you publicize this film, you are indirectly promoting it even though you think you are opposing it, because of this incident. now millions in this world will most likely watch this film on youtube and learn about lies invented about Rasulullah(SalAllahu A'laihe wasallam))

and of course, there are far more civilized ways of reacting to lies, killing someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the film is not one of them.

May Allah strengthen the family of the deceased and help them cope with this loss...

[Zunaid]

Rifat - valid point. What works on the internet also works in real life.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

*sigh*

[F6_Turbo]

Shabash Bangladesh!

In Bangladesh, about 1,000 members of the Khelafat Andolon group demonstrated in the capital and threatened to step up their protests after they were blocked from approaching the U.S. embassy. There were no reports of violence.

"We will stage bigger protests over the issue and may also besiege the U.S. embassy," said Moulana Hemayetuddin, a senior leader of the group.

F-ing mullahs

[Kashani-BD]

Why are Muslims not United?

This state of affairs is nothing but the outcome of our weakness. Power always rules and leads the world, and you would agree that it has its own psychology. Those in authority seek to maintain the status quo, by hook or by crook.
Muslims today, you would know very well, obviously lack the required power. Its attainment demands strenuous efforts and an urge to go ahead. It also demands sacrifice in the shape of time. We are not ready to pay the requisite cost; rather, we want the fruits without plowing the field and sowing the seed. Anyhow, power, I think can be gained through knowledge, science and technology. In this direction, the first step, which we will have to take, is the reformation of our concepts – both religious and scientific. Moreover, we have to tell ourselves that we are a part of the same universe, which has been planned on the principle of hard work and strife. Being Muslim is no argument towards claiming special privilege. The rules of this universe are applicable to us in the same degree as they are to other nations.
The differences among ourselves are also due to a host of factors including lack of proper knowledge and guidance, ignorance and vested interests. One should decide what one can do – in what degree – in order to eliminate and curb the said diseases. Thereafter, one should progress towards the right direction. And then, trust in God will solve the problems, insha’ Allah. However, even if no encouraging results befall us, we should be satisfied with the thought that we did our duty. Man can, and should, only do what is in his control, the rest is for Allah to decide, for He knows best.

(Siddiq Bukhary)

[Zunaid]

What has whether Muslims are united or not have anything to do with the dastardly murder of the American ambassador?

[PoorFan]

Originally Posted by Navo
In polemical terms, we expect the world to forgive 'the Muslim world' (whatever that is) for producing the odd nutter by accepting that they're 'only a minority', but are we not capable of exercising the same forgiveness for their nutters or acceptance that they're only a minority?"

Well said, however, I like to see USA launch an investigation on this video making, investigate real intention behind, if found guilty in term of provocation, bring them to justice and let them talk their mind in public. This will ensure respect and understanding from both side [East & West], condemnation of the film and sending troops to bring Libiyan killers to justice, lack the balance of respect and sincerity to prevent next.

[crikss]

Very sad news...RIP .. But killing by using our prophet name is really disturbing

[Kashani-BD]

World Assembly on denouncing the blasphemous movie to the holy Prophet, This has angered and hurt many people (Muslims), read more on here.

http://www.abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=347359

muslims are very connected to the Prophet Muhammad & Allah the all mighty, We get very emotional if something is said or written about the holy Prophet Muhammad or Allah.

Ps: This whole issue started due to the prophet Muhammad and the religion being attacked indirectly, many argue it's a duty to stand up for our religion and our beloved prophet Muhammed PBUH.

(BUT I REPEAT, KILLING OF ANY HUMAN IS WRONG)

The Link will clarify many things as it is written in a beautiful way.

[dash]

i would say this incident served both sets of extremist well....there are people like these kind of religious extremist who just waits for these sort of trouble..to drum up the emotions and create violence......and for the other extremes...they created it exactly knowing that it will spill violence in some part of the world, so they can say muslims are violent which is their agenda in the first place....so these groups compliment each other for their existence....

[Zeeshan]

Why did this thread come down to debates, polemics and arguments? Couldn't we have left a simple condolence message and as for dissenters, just avoid it?

[Electrequiem]

Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
I blame myself. I saw this coming...yet I chose to engage instead of walking away.

Lesson learned???

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by PoorFan
Well said, however, I like to see USA launch an investigation on this video making, investigate real intention behind, if found guilty in term of provocation, bring them to justice and let them talk their mind in public. This will ensure respect and understanding from both side [East & West], condemnation of the film and sending troops to bring Libiyan killers to justice, lack the balance of respect and sincerity to prevent next.

I support this idea 100%

[roman]

Just wanted to share this.

http://www.1stethical.com/2012/09/12...your-own-name/

Forget About “Not In My Name,” Think Of Your Own Name
Abu Eesa Niamatullah/
September 12, 2012




Although contrary to popular belief, it isn’t through some incredible display of patience, forgiveness or even ambivalence that the majority of us in the West don’t respond with anger to inflammatory and abusive attacks via media/video/cartoons/whatever upon the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace).
It’s actually because we just don’t find out about these things (I spend half my day reading about news and topical issues and I never heard a whisper about any video) due to the fact that they are often the work of a tiny number of sick bigots who most people utterly ignore. And why wouldn’t we ignore them? We’re talking about comparing mighty Prophets and irritating bugs. “The mountains are never shaken by the wind,” especially when it comes out of the backsides of such racist, xenophobic individuals. That was, until, you turn on the news channels to see Muslims in their own countries perhaps not feeling the same way about their own “mountains” of faith and belief, which seem to be rocked to the core every time a non-Muslim opens his or her mouth.
The Prophets of God particularly Muhammad and Jesus (may peace be upon them) have always been under a continual barrage of attacks and insults from the beginning of them being sent to mankind, to especially such times as now where the world operates on new levels with respect to “free speech”. Such insults are part and parcel of the price we pay in living in such democracies, and no we’re not happy about it but we certainly cannot accept the outrageous actions of those who would respond with wanton violence and murder against those who are utterly innocent or indeed those who are living under the protection of the Muslims regardless of their own personal and political beliefs.
Let me be clear: I do not condemn the atrocities such as the murder of the American Ambassador to Libya so that it makes the lives of Muslims in the West that bit easier, and to avoid revenge attacks on us or because it is the politically correct thing to do. No, absolutely not.
I condemn it because the religion of Islam doesn’t allow such an action. Common sense and a call to revise sensibilities clearly have failed with such people. So we have to focus on the only thing that might speak out to them: their religion. These militiamen have not just insulted themselves, but they’ve insulted their Prophet, the same Prophet who stated authentically and unequivocally, “Whoever kills a person who is granted protection by the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise even though its fragrance can be smelt from a distance of forty years of travelling.”
In another narration the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace) authentically stated that the Muslim who killed such a person had “betrayed God’s covenant” i.e. that he had broken his covenant and committed treason.
Let there be no doubt whatsoever in any Muslim’s mind: a non-Muslim entering upon a visa is under the protection of the Muslims, by Islamic law, by state law, and by international law. Indeed even a person residing under the country without a visa and simply believing that he is as protected as any other citizen would be, is under that same legal protection. And as for a member of a diplomatic corps? These individuals are afforded the very highest level of protection, security and guarantee from the Muslims. An attack on such embassy and diplomatic staff is completely and utterly prohibited.
It is embarrassing for me to have to write such a childishly obvious statement when it comes to murder but these are the times we live in. It is even more unbelievable that any practising Muslim should not reflect on this before they act on their anger. Yet with the amount of ignorance we see these days from “practising” Muslims, we are sadly no longer shocked to read the sad headlines as we are seeing today of more destruction, murder and chaos all on Islam’s tab.
Forget the PR reasons. Forget the PC reasons. Forget common sense. Forget the fact that Muslims are now seen internationally to be as pathetic as the ignorant racist bigots who initiate such situations – actually, more pathetic. Forget the fact that the Muslims live 2nd rate lives in their own countries. Forget the other priorities.
Just don’t forget this: these responses of violence and chaos have nothing to do with Islam and for that, shame upon you for trying to claim it as such. May God forgive you. To any non-Muslims reading this, please forgive us for the actions of the murderers for they indeed know not.

[Zunaid]

Very eloquently written.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Very eloquently written.

Clearly this fellow just dismounted off the uneven bars, landed on one foot, broke his ankle, and then cried to the judges for giving him a still generous 5.550.

/sarcasm

Unsarcastically, I'm inclined to agree...it was well written.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Clearly this fellow just dismounted off the uneven bars, landed on one foot, broke his ankle, and then cried to the judges for giving him a still generous 5.550.

/sarcasm

Unsarcastically, I'm inclined to agree...it was well written.

Cute.

But do you agree with his premise or not, be it well written or not?

BTW: Here's how our deshi brothers are passing time. NBC News Front Page:

[al Furqaan]

Yeah...his premise is pretty spot on.

[Purbasha T]

Condolences. That's all I could say.

[AsifTheManRahman]

Originally Posted by Zunaid

Someone give these lazy Bangladeshis some rice so that they can go home and sleep instead of creating trouble in the streets.

Ignorance, not just about one's own religion, but about "the West" is one of the causes too. Some no-name film-maker in some lonely basement in some lonely corner films a movie and all of a sudden these Mofeezes and Abuls in the picture above start portraying him as a representative of the entire population of the United States. Dude, if you really need to burn something because you haven't had your Friday afternoon rice yet and are unemployed and bored, make an effigy of the director of the film, don't make it about the entire nation. Not that it's worth protesting the film, the intention of which was definitely to provoke, draw attention and trigger the kind of reaction that it has triggered, but if you're going to protest anyways because you haven't had your Friday afternoon rice and are unemployed and bored, at least get your target right.

The average "Westerner" doesn't give an indurer poshchad about where you're from or what your religion is. When they walk into your store, they want to pay for their gas, munchies, cigarettes and lotto tickets, then they're out leading their lives. When they hire you for a job, they don't care that you wear a turban (yeah, turban - because that's what Muslims wear apparently ). When your white wife can't keep her hands off you, it's because you're such a hunk - your background has nothing to do with it. The idiots in the picture above and the idiots who bombed the US Embassy in Libya don't get to see any of that on a daily basis - but still, that's no excuse.

At the end of the day, in a multicultural society, there should be no "us" and "them". There should be no "Westerners" and "Easterners". There should be no "white" and "brown" and "yellow" and "black" and "pink" and "purple". Extending that, there should be none of those divisions among people across cultures. Your customer is your customer, your colleagues are your colleagues, your wife is your wife, your neighbors are your neighbors, your friends are your friends regardless of their racial backgrounds and religious beliefs. There are bad apples, but if you've even as much as heard of a film that was shot by a no-name director in a lonely basement in a lonely corner of the world and believe that should trigger the killing of innocents who have nothing to do with it, then chances are you need a day job, a family to feed and real goals in life.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by BrianLara7
Typical muslim (not saying its Islamic) response, have to respond to words using sword... this is just mind boggling stupidity, how do these people survive in this world with such twisted thinking?

I fail to see the distinction between Muslim and Islamic - a Muslim is an adherent of Islam. So your comment is full of stereotypical narrow preconceptions.