Videos of the 1971 atrocities and their aftermath

[shaad]

Originally Posted by Rabz
Thank You Shaad.

Actually, the credit belongs to mashuqur for actually retrieving these from the news archives and posting them in youtube.

My reasons for linking to them are straightforward: given many revisionist claims about whether the atrocities occurred or not, I thought it would be a good idea for some documentation to be available (see also the cables and related documents from the US National Security Archive at this link).

Now, it's understandable that watching this will make many of us quite angry. But I think it's important that we channel this rage towards productive goals, attempting to actually live up to the ideals of our martyrs and creating a better Bangladesh. Most of the people responsible for these war crimes are dead or dying anyway; using this as an excuse to get upset at the current generation of Pakistanis is not productive (they are not responsible for the atrocities, and many of them are fed such a biased version of history in school that they don't believe such heinous acts occurred).

What is particularly important, though, as Tiger's_eye has pointed out, is that we learn from this incident never to commit such acts ourselves when we are in a position of power. History is replete with examples of a once-downtrodden group committing atrocities themselves when they come to power (see Israel and Iraq for recent examples); we must never do so.

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by shaad
... Now, it's understandable that watching this will make many of us quite angry. But I think it's important that we channel this rage towards productive goals, attempting to actually live up to the ideals of our martyrs and creating a better Bangladesh. Most of the people responsible for these war crimes are dead or dying anyway; using this as an excuse to get upset at the current generation of Pakistanis is not productive (they are not responsible for the atrocities, and many of them are fed such a biased version of history in school that they don't believe such heinous acts occurred).

What is particularly important, though, as Tiger's_eye has pointed out, is that we learn from this incident never to commit such acts ourselves when we are in a position of power. History is replete with examples of a once-downtrodden group committing atrocities themselves when they come to power (see Israel and Iraq for recent examples); we must never do so.

Right on bro ...

Having said that, I believe it is still important that the ones responsible for war crimes still alive brought to justice, no matter what side they were on during the war. A war crimes tribunal focuses on specific acts of atrocity within the context of the law and does not take poilitical sides.

[rupantor]

Originally Posted by shaad
Now, it's understandable that watching this will make many of us quite angry. But I think it's important that we channel this rage towards productive goals, attempting to actually live up to the ideals of our martyrs and creating a better Bangladesh. Most of the people responsible for these war crimes are dead or dying anyway; using this as an excuse to get upset at the current generation of Pakistanis is not productive (they are not responsible for the atrocities, and many of them are fed such a biased version of history in school that they don't believe such heinous acts occurred).

Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971: Views of the New Generation in Pakistan

BBC URDU: Multan Students Remember 1971


BBC Urdu: Lahore Students Remember 1971


BBC Urdu: Hyderabad Students Remember 1971

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by rupantor
Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971: Views of the New Generation in Pakistan

BBC URDU: Multan Students Remember 1971


BBC Urdu: Lahore Students Remember 1971


BBC Urdu: Hyderabad Students Remember 1971

My late grandfather Dr. AM Chaudhury was the Chairman of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission back in 1971 and was living in Rawalpindi at the time. He and many others told those of us too young to comprehend the events, that MOST then 'West' Pakistanis were deeply upset by the AL or 'Bangalee' victory at the polls, and implicitly SUPPORTED Yahya and the PPP's violent and criminal attempts to undermine the election results which inevitably led to our war of self-defense and independence.

Also, let us not forget the 'silence' of our 'West' Pakistani brothers with regards to systematic exploitation of OUR resources which financed the construction of Islamabad, the modernization of Rawalpindi and Lahore, and fattened the pockets of the Punjabi and less frequently, the Sindhi elite at the expense of our comparative underdevelopment, despite 'investments' in and around Dhaka. At the height of those 'investments' under Ayub Khan who required a "higher standard" for Bengalis than Punjabis, they spent only 40% or less on us - the majority of the population and source of jute, the main cash crop and export - of what they spent on themselves in EVERY public sector. The "industrial investments" in Bangladesh, all tightly managed by Punjabi and in some cases the Sindhi elite, were made because of reasons of financial and other logistical expediency, NOT the rightful development of the source of that wealth.

So, let's stick to the facts and not leave "the Pakistani people" out of it any more than we need to, shall we? People do good or bad things because of who they are for whatever real reasons, sadly, being 'Pakistani' is not one of them. Those who supported our just cause in the 'West' were VERY few and far between.

Peace ...

[cricket_pagol]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Also, let us not forget the 'silence' of our 'West' Pakistani brothers with regards to systematic exploitation of OUR resources which financed the construction of Islamabad, the modernization of Rawalpindi and Lahore, and fattened the pockets of the Punjabi and less frequently, the Sindhi elite at the expense of our comparative underdevelopment, despite 'investments' in and around Dhaka. At the height of those 'investments' under Ayub Khan who required a "higher standard" for Bengalis than Punjabis, they spent only 40% or less on us - the majority of the population and source of jute, the main cash crop and export - of what they spent on themselves in EVERY public sector. The "industrial investments" in Bangladesh, all tightly managed by Punjabi and in some cases the Sindhi elite, were made because of reasons of financial and other logistical expediency, NOT the rightful development of the source of that wealth.

So, let's stick to the facts and not leave "the Pakistani people" out of it any more than we need to, shall we? People do good or bad things because of who they are for whatever real reasons, sadly, being 'Pakistani' is not one of them. Those who supported our just cause in the 'West' were VERY few and far between.

Peace ...

I cannot agree with you 100%. I think the ruling elite in Pakistan should be blamed for this economic exploitation, not the general public. You can only blame the general public for not trying to find out what's happening in Bangladesh. It's like how many average bangldeshis know and care about what's happening in the Hill tracts district. Why were the tribal people fighting? Why was the army deployed there... was the army brutal on the local people? This was never a major issue among the general public, we did not want to know much about it and the media obliged. Everybody wanted peace in the hill tracts, but it was never a defining issue. Growing up in dhaka I hardly knew anything about the problems in the hill districts... I remember that if somebody was sent to the hill tracts for government position or for the army, it was considered as punishment. I only a learned a bit when the AL government negotiated with them, but the issues was very politicized. BTW, this analogy is from my personal observation.

Here is what wikipedia says about the Chittagong hill tracts

During the 1970s and 80s, there were attempts by the Government to resettle the area with Bengali people. These attempts were resisted by the tribals, who with the latent support of neighbouring India, formed a guerilla force called Shanti Bahini. As a result of the tribal resistance movement, successive governments turned the Hill Tracts into a militarised zone. A good source of information on Shanti Bahini and, indeed, on the Chittagong Hill Tracts people, is the letter to the editor of the New York Times by Professor Bernard Nietschmann published on October 25, 1986 (archived by the Fourth World Documentation Project) at the Center for World Indigenous Studies website.


The Bengali people have been accused of committing genocides against the minority tribal people with silent support from the law enforcers. One often citied incident took place in 1992 in Mallya^[1] and / or Logang^[2]. The Bangladeshi army, too, have been accused of numerous human rights violations within the Hill Tracts, and their personnel have been accused of torture, killings and abduction. Amongst these, the disappearance of Chakma political activist Kalpana Chakma in 1996 attracted widespread condemnation.

Here is amnesty internal report on human rights in Chittagong hill tracts
Did you know that this incident sited by amnesty international. i did not until a couple of minutes ago. To be fair, violence was committed by both sides.

6.2 Killings at Babu Chara Bazar
One incident represents a stark reminder of tactics used by the army in the past condoning reprisal attacks on the Jumma people by army personnel and non-tribal settlers. According to reports, three people were killed in at Babu Chara Bazar in Dighinala Thana area of Khagrachari on 16 October 1999 in a clash between the army personnel and the Jummas. The clash reportedly occurred after an incident in which a Bangladeshi army personnel allegedly molested a Jumma woman. The woman shouted at him and the army personnel and another colleague who came to defend him were beaten by a number of young Jumma people. Subsequently, a contingent of army personnel came to the area aided by some 150 Bengali settlers and jointly attacked the Jummas in the Bazar. Two Jummas, Dipon Joyoti Chakma, a high school student, and Sukamal Chakma died of their injuries while the body of a Jumma man who was believed to have been killed during the attack was discovered in a nearby muddy paddy. Three Jumma homes were reportedly set on fire, Benuban Buddhist Temple was ransacked, Buddhist monks were ill-treated and statues of Buddha were damaged. Although the government is reported to have set up an inquiry into the incident, no news about its progress or outcome has emerged so far raising fears that this incident will not be properly investigated and those found responsible punished.

My apologies for getting off topic with this post.

[Sohel]

Thank you for your post C_P. Allow me to clarify.

Most Pakistanis voted for PPP in the 1970 elections, and like the PPP, wanted to illegally "share power" with AL, the outright winners. This is because they feared majority rule from a Bengali majority. No doubt such attitudes were deeply influenced by their respective political elite, but their complacent silence during the entire course of our legitimate civil rights movement starting from 1952, with rare exceptions here and there, tell us of individual political choices which have always supported the status quo.

Having said that, I do not hold them accountable for the criminal actions of organizations and individuals during the struggle, neither do I disrespect their right to support the so called unity of Pakistan, but I must say that without their demonstrable support for PPP, Bhutto and Yahiya would never have dared to do what they did.

It is possible that most Pakistanis "didn't know" the details of what was going on despite overwhelming coverage of the atrocities, but such 'deniability', be it 'plausible' or 'questionable', does not excuse their political support for organizations and 'efforts' to deny us what is rightfully ours.

Our own "complicity of silence" with regards to atrocities committed during the CHT war similarly makes us somewhat accountable too. I remember reading about many demonstrations supporting "the plight of oppressed people and Muslims" from our leftist as well as Islamic parties and intellos, but fail to recollect anyone other than Farhad Mazhar and a handful of committed people involved with the magazine 'CHINTA' showing much enthusiasm or outrage when it came to similarly gross injustices in our own backyard. Typical 'monafeki' from our so called 'leftist' as well as 'Islamic' intellectual elite and most of their followers. As an Amnesty volunteer since 1985, I knew of less than 50 Bengali Bangladeshis who participated in publicizing the truth.

Not surprising from an opportunistic and iniquitous ruling class which laments the treatment of people and Muslims in Palestine, but conveniently does nothing when it comes to our own class-based, largely Muslim on Muslim violence. Expecting them to care about our Aboriginal ancestors and religious minorities is akin to expecting HaBa to break Lara's 400*. Possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."

On a personal note, let me make it clear that I'm not a "Paki-basher." I have been to Pakistan many times since 1971, have been treated well there as a Bangladeshi every time especially in Karachi, and have Pakistani friends who love their country just as much as we love ours. So this is nothing personal. Just stating some facts and an opinion …

[cricket_pagol]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Thank you for your post C_P. Allow me to clarify.

Most Pakistanis voted for PPP in the 1970 elections, and like the PPP, wanted to illegally "share power" with AL, the outright winners. This is because they feared majority rule from a Bengali majority. No doubt such attitudes were deeply influenced by their respective political elite, but their complacent silence during the entire course of our legitimate civil rights movement starting from 1952, with rare exceptions here and there, tell us of individual political choices which have always supported the status quo.

Having said that, I do not hold them accountable for the criminal actions of organizations and individuals during the struggle, neither do I disrespect their right to support the so called unity of Pakistan, but I must say that without their demonstrable support for PPP, Bhutto and Yahiya would never have dared to do what they did.

It is possible that most Pakistanis "didn't know" the details of what was going on despite overwhelming coverage of the atrocities, but such 'deniability', be it 'plausible' or 'questionable', does not excuse their political support for organizations and 'efforts' to deny us what is rightfully ours.

Our own "complicity of silence" with regards to atrocities committed during the CHT war similarly makes us somewhat accountable too. I remember reading about many demonstrations supporting "the plight of oppressed people and Muslims" from our leftist as well as Islamic parties and intellos, but fail to recall anyone other than Farhad Mazhar and people involved with the magazine 'CHINTA' showing much enthusiasm. As an Amnesty volunteer since 1985, I knew of less than 50 Bengali Bangladeshis who participated in publicizing the truth.

Not surprising from an opportunistic and iniquitous ruling class which laments the treatment of people and Muslims in Palestine, but conveniently does nothing when it comes to our own class-based, largely Muslim on Muslim violence. Expecting them to care about our Aboriginal ancestors and religious minorities is akin to expecting HaBa to break Lara's 400*. Possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."

On a personal note, let me make it clear that I'm not a "Paki-basher." I have been to Pakistan many times since 1971, have been treated well there as a Bangladeshi everytime especially in Karachi, and have Pakistani friends. So this is nothing personal. Just stating some facts and an opinion …

WOW, you were an amnesty international volunteer from 1985!!! You are really hardcore!!! I always thought you are a couple of years older than me, but I don't think its true

BTW, i did not think you are a paki-basher.

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
WOW, you were an amnesty international volunteer from 1985!!! You are really hardcore!!! I always thought you are a couple of years older than me, but I don't think its true

BTW, i did not think you are a paki-basher.

He he he ... I'm 40 and an OLDE DAWG bro. My first campaigns for Amnesty involved Hana Mikhaylenko, a Ukranian prisoner of conscience, and Wei Jing Sheng, a Chinese prisoner of conscience. I also was a part of the anti-apartheid campaign in University of San Francisco, my school at the time, and played a part in forcing our Board of Trustees 'divest' from South Africa. Before moving to Berkeley, I worked closely with USF Campus Ministry locally as well as in Sandinista Nicaragua and FMLN held parts of El Salvador ...