BCB to renew coaches contracts? I hope so!

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by babubangla
I see a general trend in not-so-positive opinion about Siddons.
I understand the other coaches come to this forum and we get to interact with them.
They marketted themselves well with us. Most of us became subject of their very professional PR.
This does not make Siddons a valueless coach.
We need to remember, we came where we are now mostly under Siddons. Other coaches came in just few months back. The team that we have now is not a result of few months of work.

I agree 100%. No matter you like him or not, he has unquestionably improved our batting a lot. A lot of people argue that Tamim was already a good player and he would've been good regardless of siddons - maybe but I always said the best person to see is Imrul Kayes and his improvement to judge siddons contributions.

Also, Siddons lost half of the squad to ICL, I feel Alok and Nafees would be our regulars had they not gone to ICL and we would've had a very formidable batting squad.

[allrounder]

We should not only focus on the national team development but also U19 team, I feel we went flat with U19 progress.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by iDumb
I agree 100%. No matter you like him or not, he has unquestionably improved our batting a lot. A lot of people argue that Tamim was already a good player and he would've been good regardless of siddons - maybe but I always said the best person to see is Imrul Kayes and his improvement to judge siddons contributions.

Also, Siddons lost half of the squad to ICL, I feel Alok and Nafees would be our regulars had they not gone to ICL and we would've had a very formidable batting squad.

Sorry but I disagree. First of, he has been wrong for us as a HEAD COACH. These responsibility include strategy, PR, maturing players and getting the players in the right frame of mine.

The core of this team (Shakib, Tamim, Mushy, Razzak, Mash [though out injured now]) was already in place before Siddons. Junaid came to this team as a T20 star. The ICL players mostly left because they were already out of the team rotation.

We have not improve anything worth of significance when it comes to T20 and very little in ODI. He may have taken us to batting out extra overs in Tests but that has not been to a point where it will yield a draw or a win in our favor. Bowler have been treated unfairly under his tenure.

His main success has been overpassing the below par expectation he has set himself. When you compare where we were in 2007 given the talent level available vs. where we are today it is nothing of that significance (as far as improvement is concerned). [Again I'm talking about batting]. Ireland, Netherlands and even Zimbabwe have modernized their batting to meet current standards.

Siddons was part of the most successful period of Australian cricket as an assistant. There must be a reason why Australia never even looked to retain him.

[AsifTheManRahman]

Why not keep Pont as bowling coach and Fountain as fielding coach and go look elsewhere for the head coach? Why convert the specialist coaches when we have the option of letting them continue to do what they're doing?

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by Raynman
Out of curiosity has anyone noticed that Ian Pont has gone from repeating the Siddons mantra initially (we don't have players like Lee, Afridi etc., we are what we are etc.) to now making comments like thats up to the captain and the head coach (strategy, team selection including the pacers etc.)?

I wonder if something is brewing in the camp? Ian and Julian come across as more positive and forward thinking to me and I wonder if there is frustration creeping up in terms of not getting their input paid attention to.

Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
I noticed that too. His latest comments on Fast bowlers strategies gave some hints that his advices are not taken care of properly in the team. On the other hand, Ian has to understand that being a Head Coach, Jamie Siddon has to think a lot thing specially demand from team management, captain, selectors. He just cant please everyone. Jamie has been working here for long time, he understand our strengths and weaknesses more than any other current coaches do. So, i wont blame Siddons here.

All statements I have made are true. It is not about repeating someone else's mantra, or disagreeing with someone because you don't.

I have my own views on cricket as a first-class player and International coach. These are based on my experiences working with great players, having been a coach at various first-class sides, having been to THREE world cups now (with England in 2003, NL in 2007 and now BD in 2011), written TWO books on cricket, been Head Coach at the NW Cricket Academy in South Africa where Jimmy Cook, Graeme Pollock and Gary Kirsten were batting coaches. I hold the latest Level 3 UKCC Head Coach award and run my own highly successful academy producing cricketers of the future.

I only say all of this because I have opinions, views, thoughts, plans, goals, ideas, creativity and understanding of how to develop players. Batters, bowlers, fielders... when you are Level 3 coach you have to be able to coach all disciplines. i chose pace bowling, but I have elite level private clients who are batsmen. I worked with Andy Flower on his batting when we were both at Essex together for example.

Grant Luden is a Level 3 coach and spent many years coaching in South Africa with up and coming young players. Julien Fountain is also a Level 3 coach and has a baseball background, which is why he focuses on fielding.

So please understand that we have a talented 'back room' staff that TRULY understands cricket. And we also have views not least as I TRULY KNOW what a head coach needs to be successful. You have to have vision, diplomacy, honour, respect for those around you, a great working relationship with players, discipline, humour, good relationships with the cricket board, clubs and media, be proactive at getting players in, be able to ID and develop talent and also be a decent human being. This is what makes a wonderful Head Coach. I have been one and been under some really good ones.

[betaar]

Originally Posted by Raynman
Sorry but I disagree. First of, he has been wrong for us as a HEAD COACH. These responsibility include strategy, PR, maturing players and getting the players in the right frame of mine.

The core of this team (Shakib, Tamim, Mushy, Razzak, Mash [though out injured now]) was already in place before Siddons. Junaid came to this team as a T20 star. The ICL players mostly left because they were already out of the team rotation.

We have not improve anything worth of significance when it comes to T20 and very little in ODI. He may have taken us to batting out extra overs in Tests but that has not been to a point where it will yield a draw or a win in our favor. Bowler have been treated unfairly under his tenure.

His main success has been overpassing the below par expectation he has set himself. When you compare where we were in 2007 given the talent level available vs. where we are today it is nothing of that significance (as far as improvement is concerned). [Again I'm talking about batting]. Ireland, Netherlands and even Zimbabwe have modernized their batting to meet current standards.

Siddons was part of the most successful period of Australian cricket as an assistant. There must be a reason why Australia never even looked to retain him.

Raynman, you seem to be pretty much hung up on going against Siddons. Under whose guidance do you think Bangladesh team got the self beleif and the expectation to the QF in this WC?

All those players you mentioned were there before Siddons, but who have guided them to be better players. Yes these players were already talented, but they still needed to be taught the basics to be better. Yes, there are players who we also lost, but in no way this team is the same as the one from any other WC that we played.

There's a saying that goes something like this, "make things better than the way you found it" and Siddons did exactly that with Bangladesh team.....I don't think any one can question that. One can argue that any other coach could've done that if not better......but those woulda, coulda, shoulda don't count. The fact is this man put a lot of hard work in making Bangladesh what it is......the least we can do is be a little more grateful.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by betaar
Raynman, you seem to be pretty much hung up on going against Siddons. Under whose guidance do you think Bangladesh team got the self beleif and the expectation to the QF in this WC?

..............

HAHAHA YOU MAKE ME LAUGH.

Siddons has been forced to accept that we can win against big teams. He had to swallow his own words. if you have forgotten then let me remind you of a JS statement "If anyone thinks BD can win against G8 teams, they are fools" That he said after 2007 WC after beating Ind and SA. We almost forgot the attitude of winning, thanks to Shakib for changing that attitude of the team.

I dont like to make it longer, improvement/changes are things that is vissible in players' performances. Like we all see improvements in 4 months of Ian Pont & Julien F. But we fail to see those in 4 years of batting coach/head coach. He hasn't improved a single player. Some macro level improvements have happened and that would probably happen in natural course, even without any coach.

I have to say, Raynman is speaking very logical.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
All statements I have made are true. It is not about repeating someone else's mantra, or disagreeing with someone because you don't.

I have my own views on cricket as a first-class player and International coach. These are based on my experiences working with great players, having been a coach at various first-class sides, having been to THREE world cups now (with England in 2003, NL in 2007 and now BD in 2011), written TWO books on cricket, been Head Coach at the NW Cricket Academy in South Africa where Jimmy Cook, Graeme Pollock and Gary Kirsten were batting coaches. I hold the latest Level 3 UKCC Head Coach award and run my own highly successful academy producing cricketers of the future.

I only say all of this because I have opinions, views, thoughts, plans, goals, ideas, creativity and understanding of how to develop players. Batters, bowlers, fielders... when you are Level 3 coach you have to be able to coach all disciplines. i chose pace bowling, but I have elite level private clients who are batsmen. I worked with Andy Flower on his batting when we were both at Essex together for example.

Grant Luden is a Level 3 coach and spent many years coaching in South Africa with up and coming young players. Julien Fountain is also a Level 3 coach and has a baseball background, which is why he focuses on fielding.

So please understand that we have a talented 'back room' staff that TRULY understands cricket. And we also have views not least as I TRULY KNOW what a head coach needs to be successful. You have to have vision, diplomacy, honour, respect for those around you, a great working relationship with players, discipline, humour, good relationships with the cricket board, clubs and media, be proactive at getting players in, be able to ID and develop talent and also be a decent human being. This is what makes a wonderful Head Coach. I have been one and been under some really good ones.

This is an excellent reply worth quoting.

[Rabz]

I'm against making Pont/Fountain the Head Coach.
They dont have enough experience in the top level to be a head coach.
Specialist position suits them better.

I've always been a pro Siddons.
If the board decides to let him go/ if he goes, get someone new as the Head Coach, but pls dont make these two.

[Dilscoop]

^ That's just a pro siddons talk.

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by Rabz
I'm against making Pont/Fountain the Head Coach.
They dont have enough experience in the top level to be a head coach.
Specialist position suits them better.

I've always been a pro Siddons.
If the board decides to let him go/ if he goes, get someone new as the Head Coach, but pls dont make these two.

GARY KIRSTEN.. INDIA head coach, this is his first international appointment.
OTTIS GIBSON.. WEST INDIES head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
TREVOR BAYLISS..SRI LANKA head coach, this is his first international appointment.
TIM NIELSEN.. AUSTRALIA head coach, this is his first international appointment.
CORRIE VAN ZYL.. SOUTH AFRICA head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
WAQAR YOUNIS.. PAKISTAN head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
JAMIE SIDDONS.. BANGLADESH head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
ANDY FLOWER.. ENGLAND head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
GARY KIRSTEN.. INDIA head coach, this is his first international appointment.
OTTIS GIBSON.. WEST INDIES head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
TREVOR BAYLISS..SRI LANKA head coach, this is his first international appointment.
TIM NIELSEN.. AUSTRALIA head coach, this is his first international appointment.
CORRIE VAN ZYL.. SOUTH AFRICA head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
WAQAR YOUNIS.. PAKISTAN head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
JAMIE SIDDONS.. BANGLADESH head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.
ANDY FLOWER.. ENGLAND head coach, this is his first head coach appointment.

Game, set and match!

But seriously, all our specialist coaches are Level 3 coaches and Ian and Julien both have head coach experiences in well known Cricketing establishments. They are all quite capable of leading us - In addition to the on paper skills and their background, both Julien and Ian have a big picture vision that makes them eminently suitable to lead to be head coach. Plus, they seem to want to. That's a triple plus for me. Sorry Ian - I am using your post to make a point.

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Game, set and match!

But seriously, all our specialist coaches are Level 3 coaches and Ian and Julien both have head coach experiences in well known Cricketing establishments. They are all quite capable of leading us - In addition to the on paper skills and their background, both Julien and Ian have a big picture vision that makes them eminently suitable to lead to be head coach. Plus, they seem to want to. That's a triple plus for me. Sorry Ian - I am using your post to make a point.

Please.. I am NOT making a pitch for being Head Coach anywhere! I am pointing out that we have a team of the same level coaches and I have also played the game to professional level and been coaching internationally before.

Julien's background is far more baseball than cricket (junior level player at county) but of course like Grant, he coaches all the disciplines, although he is an expert in fielding. Grant has more extensive experience coaching good standard cricket in SA across the board and winning competitions.

Myself, Grant and Julien are support coaches and specialists in our chosen fields. I do feel that Bangladesh Cricket is lucky with the combination they have gathered behind the scenes though.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
JS statement "If anyone thinks BD can win against G8 teams, they are fools" That he said after 2007 WC after beating Ind and SA.

i guess i missed that statement of him

Originally Posted by BANFAN
He hasn't improved a single player

i'm not a siddions supporter but i have one name for u..Tamim

[jahidus200]

thy need to wait until the results on worldcup , if they cant get through the quater final no coaching stuff and no selectors should be in th team , bcz they already made couplop huge mistake , and even tough we win against the irish but we shouldbe win more comprehensibly , but thanks to allah for win anyway ,this is big decision so bcb definitely shouldbe wait for that

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
i guess i missed that statement of him



i'm not a siddions supporter but i have one name for u..Tamim

Tamim & Shakib is not the result of any single coach. Even sid doesnt claim that. Off course he might have been one of many contributors.

If Sid was able to improve a player it should have been Ash, considering the amount of focus he had on Ash. The entire Middle order Rok, Mushy, Nayeem, IK, Riyad and the tail ... I dont see any improvement. They were as they were. Only difference he has made is lowering their strike rate and that improved their averages a bit. Well I consider that as improvement and it's more of a natural progression. Although I dont mind giving JS credit in that, but that's so small in 4 years.

Infact there are so many threads on Sid in this forum, if you take a tour of those, you may get a better picture of his coaching career in BD.

We need a lots of basic skill building in the team, which is not normally needed for players of established teams. I'm in favour of capable low profile batting coaches for our team. Qualified first time coaches can fulfil our needs much better than high profile experienced coaches. They will probably be better with strategy and take interest more in teaching advanced techniques, we aren't ready for that yet, IMO. JS hasn't been a good strategist neither good at teaching batting skills. I'm all in favour of any one of Ian/Julian as the next coach. I know it will be difficult to remove JS if the team moves on to QF/Semi. But any keen observer of BD cricket will understand Sid's contribution in that.

It has always been bits and pieces batting by the team as a whole, wheather we won/lost.

[Shocky]

Originally Posted by Raynman
Out of curiosity has anyone noticed that Ian Pont has gone from repeating the Siddons mantra initially (we don't have players like Lee, Afridi etc., we are what we are etc.) to now making comments like thats up to the captain and the head coach (strategy, team selection including the pacers etc.)?

I wonder if something is brewing in the camp? Ian and Julian come across as more positive and forward thinking to me and I wonder if there is frustration creeping up in terms of not getting their input paid abttention to.

100% agree with u...

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

[akabir77]

really JS isn't a good batting coach? look how we were playing test before he came and now how we are playing. even players like ZN have more confidence than before. I guess one can always say JS did nothing it was all in the milk they drank every morning...

[nura43]

We should look for Gary Kirsten/Andy flower. please no coach from india or pakistan. We also need good coaches for under 17, under 19, and academy. Players have very little to learn in the national squad. all they can do at this level is having a fine tuning to their techniques and skill. The main focus should be the age group levels. As per my knowledge BCB under lotus kamal is not doing much to improve the age group teams and they have done nothing like pacer hunt/player hunt. Really frustrating!

[nura43]

Well Ian Pont can be an option....but I can't understand why u guys r ready to accept Julen Fountain as the Head coach? He is basically a base ball coach. Only thing our team can achieve from him is some improvement in fielding. By no means he should be considered as the head coach.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
All statements I have made are true. It is not about repeating someone else's mantra, or disagreeing with someone because you don't.

I have my own views on cricket as a first-class player and International coach. These are based on my experiences working with great players, having been a coach at various first-class sides, having been to THREE world cups now (with England in 2003, NL in 2007 and now BD in 2011), written TWO books on cricket, been Head Coach at the NW Cricket Academy in South Africa where Jimmy Cook, Graeme Pollock and Gary Kirsten were batting coaches. I hold the latest Level 3 UKCC Head Coach award and run my own highly successful academy producing cricketers of the future.

I only say all of this because I have opinions, views, thoughts, plans, goals, ideas, creativity and understanding of how to develop players. Batters, bowlers, fielders... when you are Level 3 coach you have to be able to coach all disciplines. i chose pace bowling, but I have elite level private clients who are batsmen. I worked with Andy Flower on his batting when we were both at Essex together for example.

Grant Luden is a Level 3 coach and spent many years coaching in South Africa with up and coming young players. Julien Fountain is also a Level 3 coach and has a baseball background, which is why he focuses on fielding.

So please understand that we have a talented 'back room' staff that TRULY understands cricket. And we also have views not least as I TRULY KNOW what a head coach needs to be successful. You have to have vision, diplomacy, honour, respect for those around you, a great working relationship with players, discipline, humour, good relationships with the cricket board, clubs and media, be proactive at getting players in, be able to ID and develop talent and also be a decent human being. This is what makes a wonderful Head Coach. I have been one and been under some really good ones.

Coach,

I really appreciate you browsing the forums and interacting with us fans in such an extensive manner. I have been following your posts and what I like most about you is that you follow through your comments with logic and explanation.

We as fans have definitely noticed a change (which I feel is positive) in the team atmosphere and attitude since you and Julian came aboard.

My personal feeling is about our team is as follows:

- from a talent comparison we have a much better team now than we did in 2007. However, the team back then seemed to be functioning more as a team than as individuals. The team members were selected based on a role. This team seems to be 11 players selected and then they were assigned their roles.

- We are clueless in T20 and have a horrible record. There has not been any acknowledgement of this from the captain/coach/management and I believe the lack of respect in T20 has contributed to our inablity to utilize ODI powerplays and pace a large chase properly

- Bowlers (especially pacers) have been dropped after one or two bad games whereas, certain batsman have been given unlimited chances

- Milestone innings though counter productive to the match situation and result has been hailed as the benchmark of progress

- In losses, bowlers have been the first to be thrown in front of the bus and even in losses batsmen have been praised for meaningless innnings

- The drama we witnessed with the captaincy and selection of Mash should have been handled better by the head coach and more behind closed doors

- The goal in test cricket seems to have been strenghtening the batting to move us to the 5th day. Very little has been done to coach/strategize to get 20 wickets or set large totals that can put the pressure on opposition. The XI has been padded with batsment all the way down to #8 or #9 to avoid embarassing totals.

- When batsmen such as Riyad and Naeem and Mushy showed positives they were never pushed up the order to maximize their strengths but kept lower to compensate for the deficiency of top order batsmen.

- We have had the same small group of players in rotation for a few years now. Dead rubber matches in my opinion should have been the stage to allow Nafees, Juhurul, Nazmul more opportunities to show there mettle on the big stage

These are some of the obvious concern that I feel the head coach needs to address. I'm not picking on Jamie Siddons' abilities or experience. Simply that there are two possible answers. Either Jamie does not have the skills/personality to handle the management and players or he is not a good head coach. If its the latter then the conclusion is right in front of our face. If its the first then you either have to change BCB and the trouble making and/or lazy players or you need to find a head coach who can work with the existing system. Although I would like to see some changes in BCB, we realistically know that is less likely to happen. So that really leaves us with the same option as before, find a head coach that suits us at the moment.

I don't know what BCB has planned for you or how open you are to extending your time with Bangladesh and in what capacties but I would love to see your ideas and approach be incorporated into our team for a long term gain.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by akabir77
really JS isn't a good batting coach? look how we were playing test before he came and now how we are playing. even players like ZN have more confidence than before. I guess one can always say JS did nothing it was all in the milk they drank every morning...

You want to keep JS as a specialist Test Batting Coach? You have my vote.

Now explain why he makes a good head coach and please define the role of the head coach before you do so.

[akabir77]

Originally Posted by Raynman
You want to keep JS as a specialist Test Batting Coach? You have my vote.

Now explain why he makes a good head coach and please define the role of the head coach before you do so.

we couldn't have a high profile (so called batting coach) like him as a batting coach. so next best thing was to bring him as a head coach.

we need to get our batting corrected. period. under him we are on that way.

You guys a saying such a way that kersten or flower will come as bd coach if we offer them high amount of money.

news flash they wont. there r very few high profile coach in the wc would like to come and work in bd no matter how much money we offer.

in that regard we r blessed with all the coaches we currently have that love bd and bd team.

fact is fact. we got a coach from the WC winner team who is still highly appreciated in Australia.

while saying that i do feel he has short coming as a head coach but I think we have to live with that, until we find some one better who would want to come to BD.

[shuziburo]

Originally Posted by babubangla
I see a general trend in not-so-positive opinion about Siddons.
I understand the other coaches come to this forum and we get to interact with them.
They marketted themselves well with us. Most of us became subject of their very professional PR.
This does not make Siddons a valueless coach.
We need to remember, we came where we are now mostly under Siddons. Other coaches came in just few months back. The team that we have now is not a result of few months of work.

You are right that JS has improved one aspect of our game, but he has mostly worked on individuals. Because he has not worked on the team aspect, we are still struggling with middle order batting and batting PP. Because of his aversion to at least some risk-taking, he has lost an opportunity to get youngsters like Jahurul established. I am sure that if groomed properly, he will be a mainstay in our middle-order.

Pont and Fountain's impact has been felt almost immediately. Especially Pont's.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by akabir77
we couldn't have a high profile (so called batting coach) like him as a batting coach. so next best thing was to bring him as a head coach.

we need to get our batting corrected. period. under him we are on that way.

You guys a saying such a way that kersten or flower will come as bd coach if we offer them high amount of money.

news flash they wont. there r very few high profile coach in the wc would like to come and work in bd no matter how much money we offer.

in that regard we r blessed with all the coaches we currently have that love bd and bd team.

fact is fact. we got a coach from the WC winner team who is still highly appreciated in Australia.

while saying that i do feel he has short coming as a head coach but I think we have to live with that, until we find some one better who would want to come to BD.

So what you are saying is, he is not the best man or even a good man for the job but its the best option we have (?)

Again, explain to me why you regard him as a keeper as a HEAD COACH and why you think someone like Ian Pont wouldn't be better in that role. See my response to Ian as to why I feel Siddons has not been a successful solution for us.