The lack of quality spinners

[mufi_02]

I am not talking about the army of SLA that we have. We have enough of them already. From Razzak, Shakib, Enam Jnr, Elias Sunny, Shurawordy Shuvo, A Sunny, E Sunny, Saqlain Sajib, Taijul, MH Rubel and countless other. The list goes on.

But there has been a lack of genuine spinners. Someone who can trouble the batsmen with flight and spin. Not just rely on the batsmen to make a mistake.

In the so called off spin department, we never had big turners of the ball. Durjoy was good and I believe the best off spinner we ever had. Naeem Islam was decent. But currently the frontlines are Hom, Nasir, Riyad, Mosaddek, Miraz. And ALL of them are part timers.

In the leg spin, there was never one. Jubair came and faded.

The current crop and pipeline are both very disappointing. Time for BCB to be concerned!

P.S. only Ashraful stands out. He was a big turner of the ball

[al-Sagar]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
I am not talking about the army of SLA that we have. We have enough of them already. From Razzak, Shakib, Enam Jnr, Elias Sunny, Shurawordy Shuvo, A Sunny, E Sunny, Saqlain Sajib, Taijul, MH Rubel and countless other. The list goes on.

But there has been a lack of genuine spinners. Someone who can trouble the batsmen with flight and spin. Not just rely on the batsmen to make a mistake.

In the so called off spin department, we never had big turners of the ball. Durjoy was good and I believe the best off spinner we ever had. Naeem Islam was decent. But currently the frontlines are Hom, Nasir, Riyad, Mosaddek, Miraz. And ALL of them are part timers.

In the leg spin, there was never one. Jubair came and faded.

The current crop and pipeline are both very disappointing. Time for BCB to be concerned!

P.S. only Ashraful stands out. He was a big turner of the ball

enam junior had turn ... we had a good spinner in sohag gazi too ...... but the rest are as u said.

[Cricket4All]

Originally Posted by mufi_02

In the leg spin, there was never one. Jubair came and faded.

Tanvir Haider does spin the ball and looks like a good prospect.

https://www.ecb.co.uk/tv/122643

[aklemalp]

The best will always be Mohammed Rafique

[mufi_02]

oh yeah, forgot Gazi. He is so far away from national team but that he became a distant memory. He had a short comeback but looked so out of place. It's a shame coz he could have played a "Ashwin" sort of role for us.

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by aklemalp
The best will always be Mohammed Rafique

We are talking about current and upcoming players. To be more specific, genuine offies or leggies. No more SLA.

[aklemalp]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
We are talking about current and upcoming players. To be more specific, genuine offies or leggies. No more SLA.

Oh, I have not followed much of the cricket on the domestic circuit..Ashraful was notable in a performance a couple of days ago.

Miraz can be considered to be a genuine offie. And there was another guy in the under 19 world cup who was called for chucking, I forgot his name

[MHRAM]

We will have this problem as long as we focus too much on List A and not enough on FC.

In DPL, some players are basically forced to dart the ball instead of giving it a good rip. As a results, the bowlers don't learn how to spin the ball from grasroot level. The pitches are really slow and low but not exactly bouncy/turners. That is why, bowlers get away by bowling straight as the uneven bounce and slow paced nature of the wicket helps them put a brake on the runs as well as get the occassional wicket.

International cricket is different altogether. Our spinners didn't just automatically become mediocre. Its just that over the years BCB is making more sporty pitches with more predictable bounce and decent pace. Eventually, it has exposed our flaws.

Having said that, their needs to be a high performance unit focusing solely on leggies and offies. Nur Hossain, Jubair, Sanjit Saha, Gazi, Miraz all 5 of them should be in the mix.

[aklemalp]

Ahh, there he is, Sanjit Saha...he's the guy who was called for chucking

[al-Sagar]

Originally Posted by Cricket4All
Tanvir Haider does spin the ball and looks like a good prospect.

https://www.ecb.co.uk/tv/122643

is he worth getting a callup for 2nd test if the spinners of first test fail ????

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by aklemalp
Oh, I have not followed much of the cricket on the domestic circuit..Ashraful was notable in a performance a couple of days ago.

Miraz can be considered to be a genuine offie. And there was another guy in the under 19 world cup who was called for chucking, I forgot his name

From what I have seen in U19 WC, Miraz doesn't get much turn. Similar to Mosaddek/Hom. But obviously he is young and can develop a lot.

But we lack serious natural turners of the ball. You see SL debuted a kid few months ago and he was turning the ball all over the place. Aus have Zampa, SA got Tahir, Eng has Rashid, and even Zim has a good turner in Cremer.

[Rinathq]

Tanvir Haider is a leggie? I ket thinking he is an offie... Damm he had some nice flighted delivery

[aklemalp]

I used to bowl offies,not a crazy turner of the ball..but sometimes I find that you get the most turn when you try to bowl a top-spinner(angle of seam is 90 degrees), it works on any kind of pitch and the balls spins variably.

Maybe grooming kids early on ways to maximize use of spinning the ball. It can prove to be game changer.

[al-Sagar]

Originally Posted by Cricket4All
Tanvir Haider does spin the ball and looks like a good prospect.

https://www.ecb.co.uk/tv/122643

did u check the stumping (runout given in scorecard) of the pacer around 2:20 ????

that's a mind of a genius

[aklemalp]

Originally Posted by al-Sagar
1 run from the first over .....

Wrong thread

[RealSports]

Shocking we struggle to produce one.

[al Furqaan]

SLAs don't really turn the ball much unless the pitch is turning. Herath, Jadeja, Vettori...all are useless on non spin wickets. Actually Vettori was probably the best given his average is decent despite playing most of his games on non turning pitches.

Give em a rank turner like India and SL have been producing the last few years, and even Taijul will become world class, getting turn:



That said, if the ZACS pitch is a dead flatty patty...they will all be canon fodder. Its why you need a Jubair faded or not, he might give up 6 an over, but strike at a good rate because he can turn the ball.

[mij]

Originally Posted by al-Sagar
did u check the stumping (runout given in scorecard) of the pacer around 2:20 ????

that's a mind of a genius

Mushy never could do that.

[epitaph]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
We are talking about current and upcoming players. To be more specific, genuine offies or leggies. No more SLA.

Offies are finger spinners like SLAs. They don't get more turn. For either to be unplayable, the pitch has to offer assistance.

But yeah, we need a wrist spinner in a leggy (or a chinaman). A test XI not having one is unthinkable.

Miraz can be the good offspin option vs left handers in the future. Having another AR, offspin version of Shakib or even a mini Shakib in Miraz would be amazing. For all formats and for bowling and batting both. He's a good fielder too, and we need to keep improving fielding as well. Hope he realizes his potential.

As for legspin, nothing in the pipeline to be excited about post Jubair-gate. Develop Sabbir, Tanveer, Noor and hope Jubair comes to his senses. BCB and BKSP need to do something about it at the youth levels.

[NoName]

Our test pitches are awful too, in regards to our bowling attack. Ashwin and Jadeja run through every side in India because they get pitches that amplify spin. We prepare roads and go in with 3-4 spinners thinking they will get us 20 wickets but opposition batsmen are too good to throw their wickets or get duped by our spinners.

A clever bowler like Shakib with his test stats would have been more impressive if he played even half the matches he's had in pitches like India, and even then on our roads he has good stats. Look at Jadeja, he has great bowling stats in tests, better than Shakib's, due to the nature of pitches he's played in India, but I doubt any one of you would think he's a better bowler than him

[Eshen]

Watch out for Shahanur Rahman (offie), took 16 wickets in first three rounds of NCL (scored a century too).

http://www.espncricinfo.com/banglade...er/821753.html

[Rinathq]

You dont just "produce" quality spinners out of thin air. Our establishment has done nothing to help the local spinners. They have been wayy too obsessed with getting bowlers that can please the speed gun and completely ignored our spinners. We do have a huge collection of spinners that could be very competitive in int cricket. But they all need some guidance to get their Domestic game intensity evolved to an international level. I dont care if we have a million SLAs. Sri Lanka only needs one to be effective. They would kill to have another SLA of similar or close caliber of Herath.

We appointed one consultant for a short period and that guy turned this ordinary offie to a highly threatening one. The moment he left, the offie was done and dusted. That should have been an indication of the need for guidance and expertise required to excel in this field. The board has done absolutely nothing so the blame goes to them. Get a solid spin coach and get him involved from the root level... the result will be evident and it will faster then you guys think.

We also have a very poor tolerance level for our spinners. They get selected game by game. We went through Gazi-Elias-Mosharraf-Saqlain-Taijul-Jubair-Arafat over the past few years and I think we werent patient enough with some of them. Mosharraf got 2 games before we started calling for his head. For someone like Saqlain who has an incredible record locally was given 1 game in a WC in away conditions without any practice, preparation. Jubair doesnt even get a fair shot at FC. Arafat has been in the team but his slot was by no means sealed despite being a consistent performer. Taijul has been picked and dropped all over the place. You cant play a musical chair with your players like this. When you bring someone in, bring em in against easier opposition first! Let them settle.. let them fail for a game and two and then let them figure out a solution. Our management seems to be happy enough with the part timers not realizing that when faced with a difficult situation, they wont be able to get out of it.

You can NEVER be a champion by relying on part timers. Its a batsmens game these days and you need the most experienced and skilled ones to tackle that.

[Rifat]

Tanvir Haider impressed, need to persist with him. (longer format only) We need genuine wicket takiing bowlers for test....Try him for 2nd test

[jeesh]

Spin education/scouting is the key problem.

Heres an interesting little thought from Piyal Wijetunge (Who was almost snapped up by BCB); he is in charge of identifying and grooming spinners in Sri Lanka.

When it comes to raw spinners, the ability, dexterity at turning the ball, to send it whirring, revving through the air or off the ground, is innate. Like timing is with batsmen. Much can be trained, but the talent of spinning the ball? "Boys are born with that talent. Between 15 and 19, they learn the skills."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/927879.html

Here is what Raju had to say

“There is already skill available. We are just asking them to be a little more relaxed and work on getting more variations on the ball. If you see, most of the bowlers often forget to put in more revolutions on the ball.

“They just try to bowl quicker and quicker and then finish their four overs and go. We basically want them to have more variations without changing their actions,” said Raju, adding that the habit of putting in more revolutions will help Bangladesh's spinners extract more turn when they go abroad and play on wickets that don't suit spinners.

http://www.thedailystar.net/sports/c...e-spin-1270786

I have first hand experience with veteran coaches who encourage their students to beat batsmen in air, bowl accurately. they shun youngsters trying to get the ball to rip. Even coaches from domestic teams ask bowlers to bowl accurately, as giving air can lead to a few long hops.

First thing BCB needs to do is hire a full time spin coach. Get Raju if possible. Get the person to work with academy and national team players on full time basis. One week of coaching wont get you anywhere.

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by rinathq
You dont just "produce" quality spinners out of thin air. Our establishment has done nothing to help the local spinners. They have been wayy too obsessed with getting bowlers that can please the speed gun and completely ignored our spinners. We do have a huge collection of spinners that could be very competitive in int cricket. But they all need some guidance to get their Domestic game intensity evolved to an international level. I dont care if we have a million SLAs. Sri Lanka only needs one to be effective. They would kill to have another SLA of similar or close caliber of Herath.

We appointed one consultant for a short period and that guy turned this ordinary offie to a highly threatening one. The moment he left, the offie was done and dusted. That should have been an indication of the need for guidance and expertise required to excel in this field. The board has done absolutely nothing so the blame goes to them. Get a solid spin coach and get him involved from the root level... the result will be evident and it will faster then you guys think.

Herath is an incredible SLA. He actually spins the ball unless our ones who will either flight it and try to beat the batsmen or go for the straight one to get the lbw. Remember how Shakib bowled Duckett in the 2nd ODI. I haven't seen such a delivery from any of our other left armers.

In fact, if one hides the bowlers face and action, very few of us can differentiate one sunnies from another. They are all the same.

There is a serious lack of unique and genuine turners..